Re: Fedora 33 Self-Contained Change proposal: Drop mod_php

2020-05-28 Thread John M. Harris Jr
t any issue." If the rationale behind this is a maintenance burden, I would be happy to assist with maintaining the package. Many people still use mod_php, in fact it's the standard way to configure PHP with Apache on just about every server that is currently running. Dropping mod_php

Re: late generation of assemble code

2020-05-28 Thread John M. Harris Jr
rpreter." > > But when I proposed that, I was not aware main developer had been hired > by Apple. And like people have replied before, they don't like the Clang > (C, C++ LLVM-based compiler) I guess in good part because of the more > permissive license than GPL it us

Re: Fedora 33 Self-Contained Change proposal: Drop mod_php

2020-05-29 Thread John M. Harris Jr
On Thursday, May 28, 2020 11:59:41 PM MST Remi Collet wrote: > Le 29/05/2020 à 06:15, John M. Harris Jr a écrit : > > > Please do not drop mod_php. It is NOT the case that "php-fpm is already > > used but most users of httpd and nginx without any issue." &g

Re: Fedora 33 Self-Contained Change proposal: Drop mod_php

2020-05-29 Thread John M. Harris Jr
On Friday, May 29, 2020 1:24:30 AM MST Igor Raits wrote: > On Fri, 2020-05-29 at 01:00 -0700, John M. Harris Jr wrote: > > > On Thursday, May 28, 2020 11:59:41 PM MST Remi Collet wrote: > > > > > Le 29/05/2020 à 06:15, John M. Harris Jr a écrit : > > > >

Re: Fwd: Re: late generation of assemble code

2020-05-29 Thread John M. Harris Jr
; > > On 2020-05-29 1:01 a.m., John M. Harris Jr wrote: > > > Paul, > > What benefit do you see in the overhead of LLVM IR, compared to standard > > packages? > > > John, > > Where do you see overhead in the distribution of LLVM IR? See below respons

Re: Fwd: Re: late generation of assemble code

2020-05-29 Thread John M. Harris Jr
Err, what does WebAssembly have to do with real programs? > IOW, it doesn't make sense to invest much in LLVM IR versus WebAssembly. WebAssembly is just in web browsers. It's not for normal software you'd install with your package manager. U

Re: Supporting hibernation in Workstation ed., draft 1

2020-05-29 Thread John M. Harris Jr
one into hibernation. It took about 30 seconds to boot back in, but I was right where I left off. What exactly is broken, and for what portion of users? -- John M. Harris, Jr. Splentity ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe se

Re: Supporting hibernation in Workstation ed., draft 1

2020-05-29 Thread John M. Harris Jr
On Friday, May 29, 2020 5:25:23 PM MST Chris Murphy wrote: > On Fri, May 29, 2020 at 6:06 PM John M. Harris Jr > wrote: > > > > > > I'm sorry, but this makes absolutely no sense. > > > Disliking the story is not the same thing as it not making sense. > T

Re: Fwd: Re: late generation of assemble code

2020-05-29 Thread John M. Harris Jr
On Friday, May 29, 2020 5:15:45 PM MST Colin Walters wrote: > On Fri, May 29, 2020, at 8:01 PM, John M. Harris Jr wrote: > > > > WebAssembly is just in web browsers. It's not for normal software you'd > > install with your package manager. Unless I'm missi

Re: Supporting hibernation in Workstation ed., draft 1

2020-06-02 Thread John M. Harris Jr
il discussion. It's > short because it needs more work and the developer hasn't found enough > time to get back into it yet. > > -- > Chris Murphy A good option until then is to just take unsigned hibernation images and work like literally every other system. There's no r

Re: Supporting hibernation in Workstation ed., draft 1

2020-06-02 Thread John M. Harris Jr
On Saturday, May 30, 2020 12:36:46 AM MST Chris Murphy wrote: > On Fri, May 29, 2020 at 9:12 PM John M. Harris Jr > wrote: > > > > > > On Friday, May 29, 2020 5:25:23 PM MST Chris Murphy wrote: > > > > > On Fri, May 29, 2020 at 6:06 PM John M. Harris

Re: Fedora 33 Self-Contained Change proposal: Drop mod_php

2020-06-02 Thread John M. Harris Jr
and empowered to make this > change. > > Regards, Joe If it's dropped, it wouldn't really be possible for me to make a mod_php package to replace it due to the integration, so I can't really see a way of keeping a compat package if it's removed, and keeping it ar

Re: Supporting hibernation in Workstation ed., draft 1

2020-06-02 Thread John M. Harris Jr
ere are two emails, bottom one is the first. > https://lore.kernel.org/linux-pm/CAJCQCtQVGqxtZZTRgscT7e4inTacAd7KAmoNOz3gB4 > hf1nk...@mail.gmail.com/ > > -- > Chris Murphy -- John M. Harris, Jr. ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists

Re: Supporting hibernation in Workstation ed., draft 1

2020-06-02 Thread John M. Harris Jr
On Tuesday, June 2, 2020 10:52:07 PM MST Chris Murphy wrote: > On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 8:42 PM John M. Harris Jr > wrote: > > > In what way is it incompatible with UEFI Secure Boot? > > > Secure Boot does boot verification. Hibernation right now doesn't. And

Re: Supporting hibernation in Workstation ed., draft 1

2020-06-03 Thread John M. Harris Jr
On Wednesday, June 3, 2020 12:06:19 PM MST Simo Sorce wrote: > On Tue, 2020-06-02 at 21:58 -0700, John M. Harris Jr wrote: > > > On Tuesday, June 2, 2020 9:45:45 PM MST Chris Murphy wrote: > > > > > On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 10:28 PM Samuel Sieb wrote: > > > &g

Re: Supporting hibernation in Workstation ed., draft 1

2020-06-03 Thread John M. Harris Jr
On Wednesday, June 3, 2020 12:08:44 AM MST Chris Murphy wrote: > On Wed, Jun 3, 2020 at 12:18 AM John M. Harris Jr > wrote: > > > > > > On Tuesday, June 2, 2020 10:52:07 PM MST Chris Murphy wrote: > > > > > On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 8:42 PM John M. Harris Jr

Re: Supporting hibernation in Workstation ed., draft 1

2020-06-03 Thread John M. Harris Jr
'm skeptical that pin shorts permit you to gain access > to such things - but if so, it's clearly a vulnerability that should > be reported. This is by design. Generally, there's a marking on the silkscreen with something like "PWD"

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: swap on zram

2020-06-05 Thread John M. Harris Jr
r Agreed. Besides, GNOME already has this enabled, right? It's definitely not right for servers, as I brought up the last time this was thrown around. -- John M. Harris, Jr. ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: swap on zram

2020-06-05 Thread John M. Harris Jr
moment anyway. At the moment, it seems that hibernation is only broken on systems with Secure Boot enabled, because of a kernel lockdown anti-feature. -- John M. Harris, Jr. ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: swap on zram

2020-06-05 Thread John M. Harris Jr
ed, but not those running Fedora. We don't have numbers to support that claim, and most devices require "Secure Boot" to be disabled, or to have the mode changed so that it accepts new keys, to install Fedora. -- John M. Harris, Jr. ___

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: swap on zram

2020-06-05 Thread John M. Harris Jr
On Friday, June 5, 2020 11:12:10 AM MST Neal Gompa wrote: > On Fri, Jun 5, 2020 at 2:09 PM John M. Harris Jr > wrote: > > > > > > On Friday, June 5, 2020 10:49:52 AM MST Chris Murphy wrote: > > > > > On Fri, Jun 5, 2020 at 4:35 A

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: swap on zram

2020-06-05 Thread John M. Harris Jr
the user's decision, and not add a zram device on upgraded systems. This would lead to less unexpected behavior. I'd support that, for sure :) -- John M. Harris, Jr. ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscri

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: swap on zram

2020-06-05 Thread John M. Harris Jr
On Friday, June 5, 2020 12:03:03 PM MST Chris Murphy wrote: > On Fri, Jun 5, 2020 at 11:47 AM John M. Harris Jr > wrote: > > > > > > On Thursday, June 4, 2020 11:54:37 PM MST Kevin Kofler wrote: > > > > > > Also -1 to adding something to the core syst

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: swap on zram

2020-06-05 Thread John M. Harris Jr
On Friday, June 5, 2020 12:12:40 PM MST Chris Murphy wrote: > On Fri, Jun 5, 2020 at 1:07 PM John M. Harris Jr > wrote: > > > > > > On Friday, June 5, 2020 11:48:14 AM MST Chris Murphy wrote: > > > > > On Fri, Jun 5, 2020 at

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: swap on zram

2020-06-05 Thread John M. Harris Jr
On Friday, June 5, 2020 12:16:36 PM MST Chris Murphy wrote: > On Fri, Jun 5, 2020 at 1:10 PM John M. Harris Jr > wrote: > > > > > > On Friday, June 5, 2020 12:03:03 PM MST Chris Murphy wrote: > > > > > > In discussions with both cloud and server folk

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: swap on zram

2020-06-05 Thread John M. Harris Jr
On Friday, June 5, 2020 12:38:01 PM MST Igor Raits wrote: > On Fri, 2020-06-05 at 12:18 -0700, John M. Harris Jr wrote: > > > On Friday, June 5, 2020 12:12:40 PM MST Chris Murphy wrote: > > > > > On Fri, Jun 5, 2020 at 1:07 PM John M. Harris Jr < > >

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: swap on zram

2020-06-05 Thread John M. Harris Jr
On Friday, June 5, 2020 12:39:05 PM MST Igor Raits wrote: > On Fri, 2020-06-05 at 12:19 -0700, John M. Harris Jr wrote: > > > On Friday, June 5, 2020 12:16:36 PM MST Chris Murphy wrote: > > > > > On Fri, Jun 5, 2020 at 1:10 PM John M. Harris Jr < > >

Re: Supporting hibernation in Workstation ed., draft 1

2020-06-05 Thread John M. Harris Jr
On Friday, June 5, 2020 4:32:55 PM MST Przemek Klosowski via devel wrote: > On 6/4/20 1:36 AM, John M. Harris Jr wrote: > > > On Wednesday, June 3, 2020 9:05:22 PM MST Chris Murphy wrote: > > > >> UEFI Secure Boot doesn't prevent you from gaining access to firmwa

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: swap on zram

2020-06-05 Thread John M. Harris Jr
ompletely agreed, going about it this way would also address most of my concerns with this change, as it would mean it's easy for people like myself to opt out. -- John M. Harris, Jr. ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsub

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: swap on zram

2020-06-06 Thread John M. Harris Jr
On Friday, June 5, 2020 11:57:50 PM MST Samuel Sieb wrote: > On 6/5/20 11:43 PM, John M. Harris Jr wrote: > > > Completely agreed, going about it this way would also address most of my > > concerns with this change, as it would mean it's easy for people like > > myse

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: swap on zram

2020-06-06 Thread John M. Harris Jr
has > feature parity, we can definitely consider trying it out. But the > referene compiler works just well. > > > > > > > > Core system components should be written in C. The higher layers (UI, > > extra > > CLI tools, etc.) can use C++ as well. IMHO, any

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: swap on zram

2020-06-06 Thread John M. Harris Jr
On Saturday, June 6, 2020 1:15:35 AM MST Samuel Sieb wrote: > On 6/6/20 12:42 AM, John M. Harris Jr wrote: > > > On my laptop, a Lenovo X200T with Core(TM)2 Duo CPU U9300; 6 GiB RAM, > > enabling swap on zram led to increased CPU usage (Always above 13% where > > normall

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: swap on zram

2020-06-06 Thread John M. Harris Jr
o the swap device. Also, the zpool memory cache is > preallocated, unlike zram devices. > > (I am not going to envy any who decide to implement zswap on a system > with ZFS. Wait wait wait, which zpool are you talking about?!) Which zswap are you talking about? Swap on compressed zvol

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: swap on zram

2020-06-06 Thread John M. Harris Jr
On Saturday, June 6, 2020 3:16:02 PM MST Samuel Sieb wrote: > On 6/6/20 10:41 AM, John M. Harris Jr wrote: > > > On Saturday, June 6, 2020 1:15:35 AM MST Samuel Sieb wrote: > > > >> On 6/6/20 12:42 AM, John M. Harris Jr wrote: > >> > >> > >>

Re: swap-on-ZRAM by default

2020-06-07 Thread John M. Harris Jr
. > > 1: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/SwapOnZRAM#Why_not_zswap.3F > 2: > https://github.com/Hi-Angel/scripts/blob/master/warn-on-low-memory.pl Zswap sounds like an excellent idea to look into instead of zram. Not only that, but it'd allow traditional

Re: swap-on-ZRAM by default

2020-06-08 Thread John M. Harris Jr
; I was also aware of zram-generator but it doesn't look as polished in > terms of integration or documentation. Well, that's really the point. The one you're using is one of the (4? 5?) other zram implementations. It seems a bit more straightforward than the systemd one for sur

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: swap on zram

2020-06-08 Thread John M. Harris Jr
ers, systemd-growfs, and an ever growing list of absurd things thrown into an init system. These things are not discoverable at all. This stuff really needs to stop trying to guess what the user/sysadmin wants to do. -- John M. Harris, Jr. ___ deve

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: swap on zram

2020-06-09 Thread John M. Harris Jr
On Tuesday, June 9, 2020 2:24:02 AM MST Kevin Kofler wrote: > John M. Harris Jr wrote: > > > I wonder if we could get that masked in Fedora Server and KDE Spin, > > potentially along with homed, userdb, repart (Who in the world thought > > this was a good idea?), resolve

Re: Datacenter move day 2

2020-06-11 Thread John M. Harris Jr
admin when I voted on the 28th of last month. (I later got the badge with the URL generated by voting for a different position) -- John M. Harris, Jr. ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lis

Re: Datacenter move days 3 and 4

2020-06-11 Thread John M. Harris Jr
On Thursday, June 11, 2020 9:09:53 PM MST Kevin Fenzi wrote: > We are working on getting this install moved over to recent > fedora or rhel, but for now it's rhel7 and python34. RHEL7 is better than RHEL8 anyway. ;) I'm planning to skip RHEL8 entirely, it's totally b0rked

Re: Datacenter move days 3 and 4

2020-06-12 Thread John M. Harris Jr
On Friday, June 12, 2020 2:26:43 AM MST Igor Raits wrote: > On Thu, 2020-06-11 at 21:24 -0700, John M. Harris Jr wrote: > > > On Thursday, June 11, 2020 9:09:53 PM MST Kevin Fenzi wrote: > > > > > We are working on getting this install moved over to recent > > &

Re: Regarding behaviour of Gnome and Fedora members

2020-06-12 Thread John M. Harris Jr
ct hints as what the result will be anyway. I have > zero confidence that anything will be done, so here I am sending an email. > > > So, could anything be done about any of this? The projects themselves don't care what we actually support, it's the views of a very vocal

Re: Datacenter move days 3 and 4

2020-06-12 Thread John M. Harris Jr
On Friday, June 12, 2020 12:04:06 PM MST Michael Catanzaro wrote: > On Fri, Jun 12, 2020 at 9:47 am, John M. Harris Jr > wrote: > > > Why? > > > John, this was a thread about a data center move. There was no need to > change the topic. :) That wasn't a chan

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: swap on zram

2020-06-14 Thread John M. Harris Jr
On Wednesday, June 10, 2020 2:50:55 AM MST Kevin Kofler wrote: > John M. Harris Jr wrote: > > > What's even more wild is that you can't easily disable it. Even though > > it's supposed to be disabled ("vendor preset: disabled") it's actually > &

Re: RHEL 9 and modularity

2020-06-18 Thread John M. Harris Jr
erent artifact type, > or add separate discrete repos per Application Stream, etc. Why is this a concern for RHEL9, where it wasn't for RHEL8? Moving to Modularity has certainly hurt RHEL7 migrations for exactly that reason, customers are forced to learn something ent

Re: RHEL 9 and modularity

2020-06-18 Thread John M. Harris Jr
On Thursday, June 18, 2020 12:22:08 PM MST Josh Boyer wrote: > On Thu, Jun 18, 2020 at 1:59 PM John M. Harris Jr > wrote: > > > > > > On Thursday, June 18, 2020 6:24:46 AM MST Josh Boyer wrote: > > > > > > > The base requirement is that the UX rema

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Fedora-Retired-Packages

2020-06-18 Thread John M. Harris Jr
@redhat.com > > > Absolute -1! > > IMHO, removing working packages from users' systems just because the new > release no longer ships them is entirely unnecessary and a total disservice > to users. Agreed, this Change would irrecoverably harm users'

Re: RHEL 9 and modularity

2020-06-20 Thread John M. Harris Jr
. It's one of the key issues with the tech. -- John M. Harris, Jr. ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.

Re: RHEL 9 and modularity

2020-06-20 Thread John M. Harris Jr
On Saturday, June 20, 2020 2:40:48 PM MST Neal Gompa wrote: > On Sat, Jun 20, 2020 at 5:25 PM John M. Harris Jr > wrote: > > > > > > On Saturday, June 20, 2020 4:42:17 AM MST Neal Gompa wrote: > > > > > TL;DR benefits of modularity for Fedora: > >

Re: RHEL 9 and modularity

2020-06-20 Thread John M. Harris Jr
On Saturday, June 20, 2020 4:37:06 PM MST Stephen John Smoogen wrote: > On Sat, 20 Jun 2020 at 17:42, Neal Gompa wrote: > > > > > > > On Sat, Jun 20, 2020 at 5:25 PM John M. Harris Jr > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > On Saturday, June

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-27 Thread John M. Harris Jr
alternative, I would like to recommend we make Emacs the default. Emacs does not require "specialist knowledge", but is much more powerful once you do learn how to use it properly. It's also not as hard to use as nano. -- John M. Harris, Jr.

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-27 Thread John M. Harris Jr
r SELinux yes or not, it may be a good idea but IMNSHO it is > not for a development machine. I definitely agree on taking out "rhgb quiet", that's annoying as all hell, not knowing what's going on during the boot process. -- John M. Harris, Jr.

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-27 Thread John M. Harris Jr
y of them have any interest or knowledge of kernel or dracut debugging, especially now that systemd is part of the boot process. Those users who know how to debug that also know how to disable those cmdline options. -- John M. Harris, Jr. __

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-27 Thread John M. Harris Jr
d as far as I'm aware. For me, dnf completion went from taking a few seconds to several minutes. -- John M. Harris, Jr. ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fe

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-27 Thread John M. Harris Jr
quot;. We're getting to the point where there are so many things that "advanced users will know how to configure", it's absolutely absurd. You spend the first week with a fresh install customizing all the little things that used to be defaults, back when

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: swap on zram

2020-06-27 Thread John M. Harris Jr
am Test Day] to > discover edge cases, and tweak the default configuration if necessary > to establish a good one-size-fits all approach. > > > == User Experience == > > The user won't notice anything displeasing. If their usual workload > causes them to dread swap t

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make btrfs the default file system for desktop variants

2020-06-27 Thread John M. Harris Jr
Blocks product? Workstation and KDE > > == Documentation == > > Strictly speaking no documentation is required reading for users. But > there will be some Fedora documentation to help get the ball rolling. > > For those who want to know more: > > [https://btrfs.w

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make btrfs the default file system for desktop variants

2020-06-28 Thread John M. Harris Jr
e that the user backlash will act as a wakeup call when it comes to these changes. I agree that btrfs is far too unstable to be made a default, and I also agree that ZFS would be a much better option. However, there is always going to be pushback on ZFS. If you want the best, there's a p

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make btrfs the default file system for desktop variants

2020-06-28 Thread John M. Harris Jr
case. Has that actually been explored? How does Canonical get around the legal issues with OpenZFS' licensing? -- John M. Harris, Jr. ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fed

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-28 Thread John M. Harris Jr
On Saturday, June 27, 2020 1:06:01 PM MST Igor Raits wrote: > On Sat, 2020-06-27 at 09:58 -0700, John M. Harris Jr wrote: > > I definitely agree on taking out "rhgb quiet", that's annoying as all > > hell, > > not knowing what's going on during the boot p

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-28 Thread John M. Harris Jr
On Saturday, June 27, 2020 9:50:20 AM MST John M. Harris Jr wrote: > On Thursday, June 25, 2020 10:18:59 AM MST Ben Cotton wrote: > > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/UseNanoByDefault > > > > == Summary == > > > > Let's make Fedora more appr

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: swap on zram

2020-06-28 Thread John M. Harris Jr
On Saturday, June 27, 2020 12:34:17 PM MST Matthew Miller wrote: > On Sat, Jun 27, 2020 at 10:25:01AM -0700, John M. Harris Jr wrote: > > > Jesus Christ, this actually got approved. It's time to fork Fedora. This > > is really getting out of hand. > > > > As

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-28 Thread John M. Harris Jr
lib/environment.d was to avoid setting more > environment variables in random places in various shell scripts. But if > that only works in GNOME, I guess it's not a great solution after all. Actually, that may be the perfect solution.. This way, it'd be a self contained chang

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-28 Thread John M. Harris Jr
gt; It doesn't even take extra space. Only uses the bottom row that > > would otherwise be empty. > > > Fine :) https://github.com/gwsw/less/issues/72 See Markus Larsson's comment on this above... -- John M. Harris, Jr. ___

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-28 Thread John M. Harris Jr
t very 'just > >press the button to do something you may or may not understand', but it > >targets new users as part of firstboot, and introduces them in a somewhat > >friendly way to how things look under the covers, so they can make > >adjustments as their

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: swap on zram

2020-06-28 Thread John M. Harris Jr
On Sunday, June 28, 2020 12:18:32 PM MST Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote: > On Sat, Jun 27, 2020 at 03:34:17PM -0400, Matthew Miller wrote: > > > On Sat, Jun 27, 2020 at 10:25:01AM -0700, John M. Harris Jr wrote: > > > > > Jesus Christ, this actually got approve

Re: User experience issue on btrfs

2020-06-28 Thread John M. Harris Jr
y / boot. I'm not sure if btrfs has the same issue there? -- John M. Harris, Jr. ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fed

Re: User experience issue on btrfs

2020-06-28 Thread John M. Harris Jr
gt; mount options. But an actual solution must not require any > customization. If you really believe that, I really don't understand why are you in favor of all of these changes with the justification being "People who don't like it can just

Re: User experience issue on btrfs

2020-06-28 Thread John M. Harris Jr
On Sunday, June 28, 2020 5:37:08 PM MST Chris Adams wrote: > Once upon a time, John M. Harris Jr said: > > > XFS proved to be troublesome, and still is up to the latest of RHEL7. It's > > not uncommon to have to run xfs_repair on smaller XFS partitions, > > espec

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-28 Thread John M. Harris Jr
On Sunday, June 28, 2020 7:51:40 PM MST Matthew Miller wrote: > On Sun, Jun 28, 2020 at 10:32:34AM -0700, John M. Harris Jr wrote: > > > > Fine :) https://github.com/gwsw/less/issues/72 > > > > See Markus Larsson's comment on this above... > > > Yeah

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make btrfs the default file system for desktop variants

2020-06-28 Thread John M. Harris Jr
number of times that having root on ZFS has led to me waiting on kernel updates over the past three years on one hand, and could still do so if I had half as many fingers! -- John M. Harris, Jr. ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.or

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make btrfs the default file system for desktop variants

2020-06-28 Thread John M. Harris Jr
't a US company, and unlike Red Hat they aren't > the same tempting target for a lawsuit. I fail to see how being a US company or not would have much bearing on this. As for being a "tempting target", they're both big tech companies providing a Linux distro as their prim

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make btrfs the default file system for desktop variants

2020-06-29 Thread John M. Harris Jr
On Monday, June 29, 2020 12:18:28 AM MST Samuel Sieb wrote: > On 6/28/20 11:35 PM, John M. Harris Jr wrote: > > > For the best filesystem ever created, ZFS, I can't say that I agree with > > your assessment of that value. Having ZFS in Fedora would throw Fedora > > o

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make btrfs the default file system for desktop variants

2020-06-29 Thread John M. Harris Jr
On Monday, June 29, 2020 12:32:56 AM MST Samuel Sieb wrote: > On 6/29/20 12:27 AM, John M. Harris Jr wrote: > > > On Monday, June 29, 2020 12:18:28 AM MST Samuel Sieb wrote: > > > >> On 6/28/20 11:35 PM, John M. Harris Jr wrote: > >> > >> > >&

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make btrfs the default file system for desktop variants

2020-06-29 Thread John M. Harris Jr
On Monday, June 29, 2020 12:54:02 AM MST Igor Raits wrote: > On Mon, 2020-06-29 at 00:37 -0700, John M. Harris Jr wrote: > > > On Monday, June 29, 2020 12:32:56 AM MST Samuel Sieb wrote: > > > > > On 6/29/20 12:27 AM, John M. Harris Jr wrote: > > > > > &

Re: User experience issue on btrfs

2020-06-29 Thread John M. Harris Jr
On Monday, June 29, 2020 1:09:16 AM MST Markus Larsson wrote: > On 29 June 2020 08:26:21 CEST, "John M. Harris Jr" > wrote: > >On Sunday, June 28, 2020 5:37:08 PM MST Chris Adams wrote: > > > >> Once upon a time, John M. Harris Jr said: > >> > &

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: swap on zram

2020-06-29 Thread John M. Harris Jr
On Monday, June 29, 2020 12:58:30 AM MST Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote: > On Sun, Jun 28, 2020 at 01:32:41PM -0700, John M. Harris Jr wrote: *snip* > > - Mask/disable systemd-homed > > > Doesn't do anything unless you create some users with homectl. There's

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make btrfs the default file system for desktop variants

2020-06-29 Thread John M. Harris Jr
On Monday, June 29, 2020 9:26:09 AM MST Matthew Miller wrote: > On Sun, Jun 28, 2020 at 09:59:52AM -0700, John M. Harris Jr wrote: > > > > We cannot include ZFS in Fedora for legal reasons. Additionally, ZFS is > > > not really intended for the laptop use case. > &g

Re: NetworkManager keyfile instead of ifcfg-rh - Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal

2020-06-29 Thread John M. Harris Jr
for a long time in NetworkManager. > All that changes here is the default of this option. > > * Contingency mechanism: revert the change > * Contingency deadline: beta freeze > * Blocks release? No > > == Documentation == > I am not aware of documentation that ge

Re: NetworkManager keyfile instead of ifcfg-rh - Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal

2020-06-29 Thread John M. Harris Jr
ile instead of ifcfg-rh if modified by one of the NetworkManager dbus clients, but otherwise leave ifcfg-rh? -- John M. Harris, Jr. ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.

Re: Remove device-mapper-multipath from the Fedora workstation livecd - Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal

2020-06-29 Thread John M. Harris Jr
h do actually need > this device-mapper-multipath the server installation iso can be used and > this is a better fit for such installations. Actually, multipath is used outside of datacenters and enterprise setups. A better solution would be to use Anaconda to include it when configured

Re: Disable dmraid.service on first run if no dmraid sets are found - Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal

2020-06-29 Thread John M. Harris Jr
would mean that users' workstations or servers using firmware RAID wouldn't be able to boot.. -- John M. Harris, Jr. ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora

Re: Remove device-mapper-multipath from the Fedora workstation livecd - Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal

2020-06-29 Thread John M. Harris Jr
ve image has? If that wouldn't be trivial, it may be best to just disable it if it's unused, which would leave the functionality for those who use it, without affecting the boot times of those who don't use it. -- John M. Harris, Jr. ___

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make btrfs the default file system for desktop variants

2020-06-29 Thread John M. Harris Jr
refore a different license is fine. > Dell, a friggin huge US company, wouldn't distribute Ubuntu with their > laptops if they as the distributor did something illegal. That's a good point, I didn't think about that. Additionally, having the context from Linus is

Re: an "old-school *nix defaults" spin [was Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: swap on zram]

2020-06-29 Thread John M. Harris Jr
sibility of the start of the Grumpy Old Neckbeard Spin (actual name TBD). -- John M. Harris, Jr. ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https:

Re: The future of legacy BIOS support in Fedora.

2020-06-30 Thread John M. Harris Jr
Linode, DigitalOcean, and most other cloud providers would cease to be able to boot Fedora. I'm very much against this proposal. -- John M. Harris, Jr. ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le

Re: The future of legacy BIOS support in Fedora.

2020-06-30 Thread John M. Harris Jr
hosts based on RHEL7. I'm not sure about RHEL8, but in Fedora, you can install edk2-ovmf, if it's not already installed, to get UEFI support. -- John M. Harris, Jr. ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send

Re: Enable EarlyOOM on Fedora KDE - Fedora 33 Self-Contained Change proposal

2020-06-30 Thread John M. Harris Jr
time in low-memory situations. > > The following is the default earlyoom configuration: > > * If both RAM and swap go below 10% free, earlyoom sends the SIGTERM signal > to the process with the largest oom_score. > * If both RAM and swap go below 5% free, earlyoom

Re: The future of legacy BIOS support in Fedora.

2020-06-30 Thread John M. Harris Jr
On Tuesday, June 30, 2020 11:29:13 AM MST Jóhann B. Guðmundsson wrote: > On 30.6.2020 17:49, John M. Harris Jr wrote: > > On Tuesday, June 30, 2020 6:34:27 AM MST Jóhann B. Guðmundsson wrote: > >> Given Hans proposal [1] introduced systemd/grub2/Gnome upstream changes > >

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make btrfs the default file system for desktop variants

2020-06-30 Thread John M. Harris Jr
on saying > they want btrfs" or "FESCo says use btrfs as default". Yes it says > "desktop variants" but only 1 variant really counts and that is > Workstation. So yes, either Workstation agrees to it or it isn&#x

Re: The future of legacy BIOS support in Fedora.

2020-07-01 Thread John M. Harris Jr
eturning to Fedora. > Bottom line I think this will be a good move for the distribution and a > good time to start looking into and make that move. I have to disagree. The more systemd bloat that gets thrown into the mix, the more concerned I become with this path. We already have a power

Re: The future of legacy BIOS support in Fedora.

2020-07-01 Thread John M. Harris Jr
t; something like that discourage a user from using Fedora? :) > > > Given that you have not changed an entry in your boot loader for quite > sometime or perhaps ever it would actually be better that you yourself > setup Fedora using sd-boot as the boot manager and compar

Re: The future of legacy BIOS support in Fedora.

2020-07-01 Thread John M. Harris Jr
hreaded boot management application. GRUB2 supports UEFI well, probably better than systemd-bloat. At the same time, it's much more flexible in other aspects, providing users with the ability to boot their system in a number of situations that systemd-bloat doesn't support, as well as pro

Re: The future of legacy BIOS support in Fedora.

2020-07-01 Thread John M. Harris Jr
tualization setup, employs iSCSI so that I can migrate VMs between my various virtualization hosts. In order to create a new drive, I'd have to create a new LUN just for a 32-64MiB block device.. Not impossible by any means, but not as simple as the above. This would be similarly &

Re: The future of legacy BIOS support in Fedora.

2020-07-01 Thread John M. Harris Jr
n, and all while > things become simpler. Much simpler. > > Lennart > > -- > Lennart Poettering, Berlin Lennart, We don't need more systemd-bloat just to boot our systems. However your bootloader works, it doesn't really matter if it's not up to snuff w

Re: The future of legacy BIOS support in Fedora.

2020-07-02 Thread John M. Harris Jr
On Thursday, July 2, 2020 5:08:14 AM MST Brandon Nielsen wrote: > On 7/2/20 12:55 AM, John M. Harris Jr wrote: > > > > > > > > Lennart, > > > > We don't need more systemd-bloat just to boot our systems. However your > > bootloader works, it

Re: The future of legacy BIOS support in Fedora.

2020-07-02 Thread John M. Harris Jr
ther when it fails to build and is generally ignored. It's used for ISO boot by Fedora itself, and is the preferred PXE method, the alternative being GRUB. It's a powerful bootloader, I don't see anything that needs changing in it. -- John M. Harris, Jr. __

Re: The future of legacy BIOS support in Fedora.

2020-07-02 Thread John M. Harris Jr
looong time but hopefully there are other areas we can improve upon > which helps us improve the overall UEFI experience in Fedora etc. > > Perhaps it's not that people dont care and more that they are unaware of > those problems I mean I personally was unaware of those

Re: The future of legacy BIOS support in Fedora.

2020-07-02 Thread John M. Harris Jr
removing legacy BIOS support > from Fedora is the right thing to do.?? I don't see significant benefit, > and I see lots of potential harm. Considering that a custom installer for Fedora could just be a bash script that partitions disks, then runs `dnf`, then grub2-install.. It

Re: The future of legacy BIOS support in Fedora.

2020-07-02 Thread John M. Harris Jr
support for GRUB2 > / BIOS wanes to the point it can no longer stand under its own weight > (much like 32bit install media). GRUB2, which is a UEFI bootloader as well, is a far superior bootloader to systemd-bloat, and it supports usecases that are supported by Anaconda (the Fedora instal

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