Re: [Test-Announce] Fedora 20 Alpha Test Compose 5 (TC5) Available Now!

> I might be a little confused now. Yesterday, or Friday I did > > sudo fedup-cli --network 19 > > and I got F20, and I'm up on F20 at the moment. That is highly unlikely, that would indicate a bug in fedup. Are you sure you used "19" and that you really are on "20"? > > Now am I to do a ...-

Some Spacewalk packages orphaned

Hi, I orphaned following packages in Fedora (and EPEL): nocpulse-common perl-NOCpulse-CLAC perl-NOCpulse-Debug perl-NOCpulse-Gritch perl-NOCpulse-Object perl-NOCpulse-SetID perl-NOCpulse-Utils spacewalk-admin They transitively need new package, which is not yet in Fedora. And since I do not use S

Re: Fedora/Redhat and perfect forward secrecy

On 09/07/2013 12:52 AM, Gregory Maxwell wrote: > Regardless, I think that argument would be an ignorant one: > Approximately no one runs non-ECDH PFS on the web: it's insanely slow > and it breaks clients. Hmm. Isn't non-ECDH PFS just straight integer (mod N) Diffie-Hellman? And that's what is in

Re: Fedora/Redhat and perfect forward secrecy

On 09/09/2013 11:58 AM, Andrew Haley wrote: On 09/07/2013 12:52 AM, Gregory Maxwell wrote: Regardless, I think that argument would be an ignorant one: Approximately no one runs non-ECDH PFS on the web: it's insanely slow and it breaks clients. Hmm. Isn't non-ECDH PFS just straight integer (mo

[Test-Announce] Fwd: Fedora 20 Alpha Change freeze

A bit late, but forwarding here anyway. - Forwarded Message - From: "Dennis Gilmore" To: devel-annou...@lists.fedoraproject.org Sent: Wednesday, September 4, 2013 7:24:40 AM Subject: Fedora 20 Alpha Change freeze -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi all, as the Fedora 20 sc

Re: Dracut HostOnly or ConfigurationOnly?

> On 09/06/2013 10:15 AM, Jiri Eischmann wrote: > > Can this not be done automatically? If the system fails to boot because > > of significant hardware changes, it's an obvious option to regenerate > > initramfs. I can't image a normal user go to the rescue mode and run > > "dracut --regenerate-all

Re: Dell XPS 13 ("Sputnik") no longer working with fedora kernels >= 3.10

On 08.09.2013 01:42, Chuck Anderson wrote: On Fri, Sep 06, 2013 at 12:45:03PM +0200, Łukasz Jagiełło wrote: 2013/9/5 Dennis Jacobfeuerborn Working fine here. #v+ [root@p0x ~]# uname -a Linux p0x 3.10.10-200.fc19.x86_64 #1 SMP Thu Aug 29 19:05:45 UTC 2013 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux [root

[Test-Announce] Fedora 20 Alpha Go/No-Go Meeting, Thursday, September 12 @ 17:00 UTC

Join us on irc.freenode.net in #fedora-meeting-1 for this important meeting, wherein we shall determine the readiness of the Fedora 20 Alpha. Thursday, September 12, 2013 17:00 UTC (1 PM EDT, 10 AM PDT, 19:00 CEST) "Before each public release Development, QA and Release Engineering meet to determ

Re: Dracut HostOnly or ConfigurationOnly?

On 09/09/2013 11:48 AM, Kamil Paral wrote: On 09/06/2013 10:15 AM, Jiri Eischmann wrote: Can this not be done automatically? If the system fails to boot because of significant hardware changes, it's an obvious option to regenerate initramfs. I can't image a normal user go to the rescue mode and

Re: Retiring libeio

On 08/09/13 08:48, Michael Schwendt wrote: On Sat, 7 Sep 2013 18:03:48 -0700, T.C. Hollingsworth wrote: I adopted libeio back when Node.js still bundled it to aid in the unbundling effort, but upstream "fixed" the bundling problem here by no longer using libeio for anything. That explains a b

[Bug 1005669] perl-HTTP-Body: remote command-injection flaw in HTTP::Body::Multipart versions 1.08 and later

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1005669 Petr Pisar changed: What|Removed |Added CC||ppi...@redhat.com External Bug ID|

Re: Default boot/root filesystem

On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 6:40 PM, "Jóhann B. Guðmundsson" wrote: > On 09/07/2013 10:35 PM, Eric Sandeen wrote: >> >> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- >> Hash: SHA1 >> >> On 9/6/13 5:48 PM, Sam Varshavchik wrote: >>> >>> According to this: >>> >>> >>> http://www.serverwatch.com/server-news/where-is

Re: Default boot/root filesystem

On 09/09/2013 02:35 PM, Josef Bacik wrote: >In a 21 century distro the sub community would decide which default >filesystem would be their preference to deliverer the best out of the box >experience for their product but hey rings to rule them all and hobbits too. > I'd like to see this become a

PostgreSQL 9.3 in Fedora 20?

Hi, I know that currently Fedora 20 is in feature freeze state. But Alpha version is still not released and PosgreSQL developers released new latest and greates version http://www.postgresql.org/docs/9.3/static/release-9-3.html with cool features. Are there chances to get this version for F20? --

Re: Default boot/root filesystem

On Sat, Sep 07, 2013 at 05:35:05PM -0500, Eric Sandeen wrote: > If people want to switch the Fedora default to XFS, I'll gladly file > the feature. :) Why is XFS better than ext4. When I checked a few months ago, XFS did not even support shrinking, but only growing. Even now there seems to be on

Re: PostgreSQL 9.3 in Fedora 20?

On Mon, Sep 09, 2013 at 17:19:54 +0200, Michał Piotrowski wrote: Hi, I know that currently Fedora 20 is in feature freeze state. But Alpha version is still not released and PosgreSQL developers released new latest and greates version http://www.postgresql.org/docs/9.3/static/release-9-3.html

Re: Fedora/Redhat and perfect forward secrecy

Am 09.09.2013 12:55, schrieb Florian Weimer: > On 09/09/2013 11:58 AM, Andrew Haley wrote: >> On 09/07/2013 12:52 AM, Gregory Maxwell wrote: >>> Regardless, I think that argument would be an ignorant one: >>> Approximately no one runs non-ECDH PFS on the web: it's insanely slow >>> and it breaks

Re: PostgreSQL 9.3 in Fedora 20?

On 09/09/2013 05:37 PM, Bruno Wolff III wrote: On Mon, Sep 09, 2013 at 17:19:54 +0200, Michał Piotrowski wrote: Hi, I know that currently Fedora 20 is in feature freeze state. But Alpha version is still not released and PosgreSQL developers released new latest and greates version http://www

Re: Dracut HostOnly or ConfigurationOnly?

Am 09.09.2013 14:11, schrieb Jóhann B. Guðmundsson: > On 09/09/2013 11:48 AM, Kamil Paral wrote: >>> On 09/06/2013 10:15 AM, Jiri Eischmann wrote: Can this not be done automatically? If the system fails to boot because of significant hardware changes, it's an obvious option to regenerat

Re: PostgreSQL 9.3 in Fedora 20?

Am 09.09.2013 17:37, schrieb Bruno Wolff III: > On Mon, Sep 09, 2013 at 17:19:54 +0200, > Michał Piotrowski wrote: >> Hi, >> >> I know that currently Fedora 20 is in feature freeze state. But Alpha >> version is still not released and PosgreSQL developers released new latest >> and greates ver

[Owner-change] Fedora packages ownership change

Change in ownership over the last 168 hours === 15 packages were orphaned - perl-NOCpulse-Gritch [EL-5,EL-6,devel,f18,f19,f20] was orphaned by msuchy Perl throttled email notification for Spacewalk https://admin.fedoraprojec

Re: Proposal: AppData files in all application packages?

Le 09/09/2013 17:51, Florian Müllner a écrit : > On Mon, Sep 9, 2013 at 5:36 PM, Remi Collet wrote: >> Le 06/09/2013 11:33, Richard Hughes a écrit : >>> [1] http://people.freedesktop.org/~hughsient/appdata/ >> >> I don't see any localization information in those specifications... > > From the abo

Re: Default boot/root filesystem

On 9/9/13 10:56 AM, Till Maas wrote: > On Sat, Sep 07, 2013 at 05:35:05PM -0500, Eric Sandeen wrote: > >> If people want to switch the Fedora default to XFS, I'll gladly file >> the feature. :) > > Why is XFS better than ext4. When I checked a few months ago, XFS did > not even support shrinking

Re: PostgreSQL 9.3 in Fedora 20?

> I know that currently Fedora 20 is in feature freeze state. But Alpha > version is still not released and PosgreSQL developers released new latest > and greates version > http://www.postgresql.org/docs/9.3/static/release-9-3.html with cool > features. Are there chances to get this version for F20

Re: Proposal: AppData files in all application packages?

On Mon, Sep 9, 2013 at 5:36 PM, Remi Collet wrote: > Le 06/09/2013 11:33, Richard Hughes a écrit : >> [1] http://people.freedesktop.org/~hughsient/appdata/ > > I don't see any localization information in those specifications... From the above link: "Questions: [...] How do I translate this data?"

Re: Fedora/Redhat and perfect forward secrecy

On Mon, 9 Sep 2013, Reindl Harald wrote: I don't get it, either google "dhe versus ecdhe performance" http://vincent.bernat.im/en/blog/2011-ssl-perfect-forward-secrecy.html Let’s focus on the server part. Enabling DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA cipher suite hinders the performance of TLS handshakes by a

Re: Dracut HostOnly or ConfigurationOnly?

Am 09.09.2013 18:38, schrieb Jared K. Smith: > On Mon, Sep 9, 2013 at 8:19 AM, Reindl Harald > wrote: > > i think you misread the post - IMHO the intention was that once again > a feature with zero benefit was acknowledged without caseful think about >

Re: Fedora/Redhat and perfect forward secrecy

Am 09.09.2013 18:12, schrieb Paul Wouters: > On Mon, 9 Sep 2013, Reindl Harald wrote: >>> I don't get it, either >> >> google "dhe versus ecdhe performance" >> >> http://vincent.bernat.im/en/blog/2011-ssl-perfect-forward-secrecy.html Let’s focus on the server part. Enabling DHE-RSA-AES128-SH

Re: PostgreSQL 9.3 in Fedora 20?

On Mon, Sep 09, 2013 at 17:41:51 +0200, Reindl Harald wrote: http://www.heise.de/open/meldung/PostgreSQL-9-3-veroeffentlicht-1953017.html in english: it is released Yeah, I just saw that. Given that it is released it seems reasonable to get it into F20 and F21. We are past the alpha free

Re: Dracut HostOnly or ConfigurationOnly?

On Mon, Sep 9, 2013 at 8:19 AM, Reindl Harald wrote: > i think you misread the post - IMHO the intention was that once again > a feature with zero benefit was acknowledged without caseful think about > the negative impact > And I think you once again exaggerate, Harald. Just because the feature

Re: [389-devel] RFC: New Design: Fine Grained ID List Size

On 09/09/2013 02:27 AM, Ludwig Krispenz wrote: On 09/07/2013 05:02 AM, David Boreham wrote: On 9/6/2013 8:49 PM, Nathan Kinder wrote: This is a good idea, and it is something that we discussed briefly off-list. The only downside is that we need to change the index format to keep a count of i

Re: Fedora/Redhat and perfect forward secrecy

On Mon, Sep 9, 2013 at 9:12 AM, Paul Wouters wrote: > For the client, clearly CPU is not the limiting factor. For regular TLS > servers, this should also not matter. For fully loaded TLS servers or > TLS accelerators, the factor 3 on the CPU load will matter, but we're > talking clusters of machin

Re: PostgreSQL 9.3 in Fedora 20?

Hi, 2013/9/9 Pavel Raiskup > > I know that currently Fedora 20 is in feature freeze state. But Alpha > > version is still not released and PosgreSQL developers released new > latest > > and greates version > > http://www.postgresql.org/docs/9.3/static/release-9-3.html with cool > > features. Ar

Re: 19 (Schrödinger’s Cat)

On Sat, Sep 07, 2013 at 12:17:57AM +0200, Reindl Harald wrote: > Am 06.09.2013 20:26, schrieb Darryl L. Pierce: > > Have your filed a BZ? What's the BZ#? > > don't get me wrong but i expect bugs viewable at every single boot > as fixed without a specific report and to be honest not existing > at a

Re: 19 (Schrödinger’s Cat)

On Fri, Sep 06, 2013 at 07:07:46PM -0400, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 6:17 PM, Reindl Harald wrote: > > > don't get me wrong but i expect bugs viewable at every single boot > > as fixed without a specific report a > > http://www.redhat.com/magazine/020jun06/features/bugzilla/

[Bug 1006000] New: perl-Pod-Spell-1.06 is available

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1006000 Bug ID: 1006000 Summary: perl-Pod-Spell-1.06 is available Product: Fedora Version: rawhide Component: perl-Pod-Spell Keywords: FutureFeature, Triaged Assignee: jples...@red

[Bug 1006001] New: perl-Socket-2.012 is available

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1006001 Bug ID: 1006001 Summary: perl-Socket-2.012 is available Product: Fedora Version: rawhide Component: perl-Socket Keywords: FutureFeature, Triaged Assignee: ppi...@redhat.com

Re: Fedora/Redhat and perfect forward secrecy

On Mon, 9 Sep 2013, Gregory Maxwell wrote: I am certainly not ignoring legal concerns. While there are some patented EC cryptographic techniques, the basic infrastructure including ECDH over prime fields was first published back in 1984 and is not patentable. The IETF has published an extensive

Re: Fedora/Redhat and perfect forward secrecy

On Mon, Sep 9, 2013 at 11:46 AM, Paul Wouters wrote: > [not speaking for Red Hat] > You seem to believe only valid legal claims can put Red Hat in court. Of course not. Though I'm not aware of anyone making any claims at all over basic non-specially optimized ECDH on prime fields. Perhaps RedHat

Re: Wider feedback requested on two changes to our base/core defaults

On Mon, 09.09.13 19:42, Jóhann B. Guðmundsson (johan...@gmail.com) wrote: > On 09/09/2013 07:30 PM, Lennart Poettering wrote: > >On Wed, 21.08.13 18:45, Jóhann B. Guðmundsson (johan...@gmail.com) wrote: > > > >>And I have come across a bit of scalability issue due to us > >>defaulting to using sho

Re: Wider feedback requested on two changes to our base/core defaults

On Wed, 21.08.13 18:45, Jóhann B. Guðmundsson (johan...@gmail.com) wrote: > And I have come across a bit of scalability issue due to us > defaulting to using short hostnames in login and command prompt when > creating OS containers in any real numbers. I am pretty sure we should continue to defau

Re: Wider feedback requested on two changes to our base/core defaults

On 09/09/2013 07:53 PM, Ian Malone wrote: I'd like to add myself as another datapoint for 'uses different users', and often via ssh. In any case, that bash prompt trick surely only works if applied to all user profiles or all systems being used. They already are quite different between *nixes,s

Re: Proposal: AppData files in all application packages?

On Mon, Sep 9, 2013 at 6:59 PM, Remi Collet wrote: > Le 09/09/2013 17:51, Florian Müllner a écrit : > > On Mon, Sep 9, 2013 at 5:36 PM, Remi Collet > wrote: > >> Le 06/09/2013 11:33, Richard Hughes a écrit : > >>> [1] http://people.freedesktop.org/~hughsient/appdata/ > >> > >> I don't see any loc

Re: Wider feedback requested on two changes to our base/core defaults

On Wed, 21.08.13 21:06, Simo Sorce (s...@redhat.com) wrote: > > I would like us to change our default to use long hostname instead as in > > the fqdn or "container01.ackme.com" and would love any kind of feed back > > in that regard ( why we should not default to that ). > > +1 always good to s

Re: Wider feedback requested on two changes to our base/core defaults

On 09/09/2013 08:05 PM, Lennart Poettering wrote: On Mon, 09.09.13 19:42, Jóhann B. Guðmundsson (johan...@gmail.com) wrote: On 09/09/2013 07:30 PM, Lennart Poettering wrote: On Wed, 21.08.13 18:45, Jóhann B. Guðmundsson (johan...@gmail.com) wrote: And I have come across a bit of scalability

Re: Wider feedback requested on two changes to our base/core defaults

On 22 August 2013 15:50, Ondrej Vasik wrote: > On Thu, 2013-08-22 at 08:21 -0500, Chris Adams wrote: >> Once upon a time, "Jóhann B. Guðmundsson" said: >> - The "user@" is mostly useless; if you su/sudo to root, the character >> at the end of the prompt changes from $ to #. The only time I

Re: Wider feedback requested on two changes to our base/core defaults

On 09/09/2013 07:30 PM, Lennart Poettering wrote: On Wed, 21.08.13 18:45, Jóhann B. Guðmundsson (johan...@gmail.com) wrote: And I have come across a bit of scalability issue due to us defaulting to using short hostnames in login and command prompt when creating OS containers in any real numbers

Re: Proposal: AppData files in all application packages?

On Mon, 2013-09-09 at 23:08 +0300, Elad Alfassa wrote: > > > 3.10 *will* support localization. Patches already landed. > > https://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-software/commit/?id=5b5d58c4abde7229f39246ccf3e42bb04d68bd15 > https://github.com/hughsie/fedora-appstream/commit/6683d10503a592ac02ec9cf

Re: Proposal: AppData files in all application packages?

On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 6:43 AM, Daniel J Walsh wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > On 09/07/2013 06:14 AM, Richard Hughes wrote: > > On 7 September 2013 11:03, Daniel J Walsh wrote: > >> Why not open bugzillas with the packages with .Desktop files to do this? > > > > Val

Re: Proposal: AppData files in all application packages?

On Mon, 2013-09-09 at 17:59 +0200, Remi Collet wrote: > Sorry, but this need more explanation / sample / howto. > > As I understand, localization is not planned for 3.10. > > Sorry, but without translation, I just think this is a NO-GO for me. > > Remi. Translations are now supported, see http:/

Re: Some Spacewalk packages orphaned

On Mon, Sep 09, 2013 at 10:00:49AM +0200, Miroslav Suchý wrote: > Hi, > I orphaned following packages in Fedora (and EPEL): > nocpulse-common > perl-NOCpulse-CLAC > perl-NOCpulse-Debug > perl-NOCpulse-Gritch > perl-NOCpulse-Object > perl-NOCpulse-SetID > perl-NOCpulse-Utils > spacewalk-admin > > T

Re: Some Spacewalk packages orphaned

On Mon, Sep 09, 2013 at 10:59:56PM +0200, Till Maas wrote: > Most if not all packages depend on a package I recently retired, > therefore because it did not build for two releases. Since the packages Actually they depend on a retired package, that I blocked, because it was not blocked. But the im

[perl-Net-Patricia] Update to 1.21

commit 106f800a565df3e4bea251adabe4878cac471f42 Author: Orion Poplawski Date: Mon Sep 9 15:06:03 2013 -0600 Update to 1.21 .gitignore |1 + perl-Net-Patricia.spec |7 +-- sources|2 +- 3 files changed, 7 insertions(+), 3 deletions(-) --- diff --

[perl-Net-Patricia] Fix changelog dates

commit 89d8d2b6d59f321519f6101cc49cd08801a5dbcf Author: Orion Poplawski Date: Mon Sep 9 15:08:07 2013 -0600 Fix changelog dates perl-Net-Patricia.spec |4 ++-- 1 files changed, 2 insertions(+), 2 deletions(-) --- diff --git a/perl-Net-Patricia.spec b/perl-Net-Patricia.spec index c3aad

[perl-Net-Patricia] License changed to GPLv2+

commit c047e2c19dd92d138b9dbfc452977925d2ca3d35 Author: Orion Poplawski Date: Mon Sep 9 15:17:34 2013 -0600 License changed to GPLv2+ perl-Net-Patricia.spec |5 +++-- 1 files changed, 3 insertions(+), 2 deletions(-) --- diff --git a/perl-Net-Patricia.spec b/perl-Net-Patricia.spec inde

New testng 6.8.7

hi If there are no dissenting opinions update testng to 6.8.7 regards gil <>-- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct

Re: Proposal: AppData files in all application packages?

Le 06/09/2013 11:33, Richard Hughes a écrit : > [1] http://people.freedesktop.org/~hughsient/appdata/ > [2] https://github.com/hughsie/fedora-appstream/tree/master/appdata-extra I don't see any localization information in those specifications... Isn't this supposed to be a user-friendly feature

Re: New testng 6.8.7

2013/9/9 punto...@libero.it > hi > > If there are no dissenting opinions > update testng to 6.8.7 > regards > gil > > Is it a bugfix release or does it bring some disruptive changes ? In the former case, you need not to ping this list about it, in the latter, you need to be more explicit or prov

Re: Release Ownership for oyranos

On Sun, Sep 8, 2013 at 3:55 AM, Nicolas Chauvet wrote: > Hi, > > I've released ownership for oyranos which currently FTBFS in f20. > I will not have time to fix in the f20 time frame, so it might be blocked > or even retired if none volunteer to maintain it. > > There will be a need to update ele

New testng 6.8.7

hi If there are no dissenting opinions update testng to 6.8.7 regards gil <>-- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct

Re: Wider feedback requested on two changes to our base/core defaults

On Mon, 2013-09-09 at 21:30 +0200, Lennart Poettering wrote: > On Wed, 21.08.13 18:45, Jóhann B. Guðmundsson (johan...@gmail.com) wrote: > > > And I have come across a bit of scalability issue due to us > > defaulting to using short hostnames in login and command prompt when > > creating OS contai

Re: Wider feedback requested on two changes to our base/core defaults

On Mon, 09.09.13 18:30, Simo Sorce (s...@redhat.com) wrote: > Kerberos and x509 both require FQDNs. > It makes no sense to stick to short names for servers, and having a FQDN > on a laptop does not hurt anything (a FreeIPA enrolled laptop must have > a FQDN anyway as it uses the keytab to do valid

Re: Wider feedback requested on two changes to our base/core defaults

On 9 September 2013 20:53, "Jóhann B. Guðmundsson" wrote: > On 09/09/2013 07:53 PM, Ian Malone wrote: >> >> I'd like to add myself as another datapoint for 'uses different >> users', and often via ssh. In any case, that bash prompt trick surely >> only works if applied to all user profiles or all

does mc really require perl*?

I did a TC5 minimal install last night, which omitted mc, my most used cmdline tool. So: # yum install mc ... installing for dependencies: gpm-libs (which I never ever use) perl* (29 packages)... Seriously? What does mc need perl for? I installed mc plus gpm-libs with rpm --nodeps, and it work

Re: Wider feedback requested on two changes to our base/core defaults

On Tue, 2013-09-10 at 00:35 +0200, Lennart Poettering wrote: > On Mon, 09.09.13 18:30, Simo Sorce (s...@redhat.com) wrote: > > > Kerberos and x509 both require FQDNs. > > It makes no sense to stick to short names for servers, and having a FQDN > > on a laptop does not hurt anything (a FreeIPA enro

Re: Wider feedback requested on two changes to our base/core defaults

On 09/09/2013 10:54 PM, Ian Malone wrote: Thank you for the put down. However, firstly I'm not referring to the fqdn issue, but the mention of dropping user name and secondly I'm not the administrator of all the systems I use. I was simply trying to provide some user input here. My proposal is

Re: PostgreSQL 9.3 in Fedora 20?

On 09/09/2013 06:02 PM, Pavel Raiskup wrote: I know that currently Fedora 20 is in feature freeze state. But Alpha version is still not released and PosgreSQL developers released new latest and greates version http://www.postgresql.org/docs/9.3/static/release-9-3.html with cool features. Are ther

Re: does mc really require perl*?

On Mon, 09 Sep 2013 20:27:09 -0400 Felix Miata wrote: > I did a TC5 minimal install last night, which omitted mc, my most > used cmdline tool. So: > > # yum install mc > ... installing for dependencies: > gpm-libs (which I never ever use) > perl* (29 packages)... > > Seriously? What does mc nee