On 2018-04-17 16:31, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote:
My initial example with gpm
is actually good here: do "sudo dnf install -y gpm", move mouse, voilà.
unless your a lefty ;-)
OT: Why is why I wish sddm was handedness-agnostic. It's too simple to
need anything more than click awaren
On Tue, Apr 17, 2018 at 04:47:14PM -0400, R P Herrold wrote:
> On Tue, 17 Apr 2018, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote:
>
> > The use case is that for simple packages, it's simpler for the user
> > if the service is available immediately. My initial example with gpm
> > is actually good here: do "s
On 17 April 2018 at 19:42, Nico Kadel-Garcia wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 17, 2018 at 2:53 PM, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek
> wrote:
>> On Tue, Apr 17, 2018 at 11:00:55AM -0500, Ian Pilcher wrote:
>>> On 04/17/2018 12:41 AM, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote:
>>> >tl;dr: the proposal is to start services
On Tue, Apr 17, 2018 at 2:53 PM, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek
wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 17, 2018 at 11:00:55AM -0500, Ian Pilcher wrote:
>> On 04/17/2018 12:41 AM, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote:
>> >tl;dr: the proposal is to start services immediately during
>> >installation (in %post), iff they are
On 04/17/2018 01:12 PM, R P Herrold wrote:
On Tue, 17 Apr 2018, Samuel Sieb wrote:
I would assume that services that require configuration
before being useful would not be enabled by default.
I thing this is a mistaken assumption, and that we are moving
into matters of sysadmin taste
The SSHD
On Tue, 17 Apr 2018, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote:
> The use case is that for simple packages, it's simpler for the user
> if the service is available immediately. My initial example with gpm
> is actually good here: do "sudo dnf install -y gpm", move mouse, voilà.
> Also the case from https
On Tue, 17 Apr 2018, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote:
> > i could puke everytime something is pulled as dependency and started
> > without any use
>
> Can you give an example of such services?
The first is a list of 'sbin' processes running from that
machine being probed
The second are those
On Tue, Apr 17, 2018 at 04:01:04PM -0400, R P Herrold wrote:
> On Tue, 17 Apr 2018, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote:
>
> > On Tue, Apr 17, 2018 at 12:41:15PM -0400, R P Herrold wrote:
>
> > To make this work, we could either require that maintainers of A add
> > Requires(post): B, or delay the
On Tue, 17 Apr 2018, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote:
> Services which are subject the guidelines allow to be enabled by
> default should be such that starting them briefly should not cause
> any permanent effects.
Some 'real world' data, from a unit that was deployed this
morning at
2018-04
On Tue, 17 Apr 2018, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote:
> Services which are subject the guidelines allow to be
> enabled by default should be such that starting them briefly
> should not cause any permanent effects.
'should not' is not true to fact in the real world
I mentioned we inject a S
On Tue, 17 Apr 2018, Samuel Sieb wrote:
> I would assume that services that require configuration
> before being useful would not be enabled by default.
I thing this is a mistaken assumption, and that we are moving
into matters of sysadmin taste
The SSHD is enabled by default, and likely to re
On Tue, Apr 17, 2018 at 08:58:06PM +0200, Reindl Harald wrote:
>
>
> Am 17.04.2018 um 20:53 schrieb Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek:
> > On Tue, Apr 17, 2018 at 11:00:55AM -0500, Ian Pilcher wrote:
> >> On 04/17/2018 12:41 AM, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote:
> >>> tl;dr: the proposal is to start s
On Tue, 17 Apr 2018, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 17, 2018 at 12:41:15PM -0400, R P Herrold wrote:
> To make this work, we could either require that maintainers of A add
> Requires(post): B, or delay the starting of services until the end
> of the transaction, using a transfi
On 04/17/2018 12:05 PM, Kevin Fenzi wrote:
b) services that have assumed our current behavior and are not useful,
or are even insecure when started by default.
I would assume that services that require configuration before being
useful would not be enabled by default.
On 04/16/2018 10:41 PM, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I'm a bit surprised that there's no reply to this fairly explosive
> idea. Maybe Nikos' text is too long, so let me summarize:
Well, I marked it to reply to, but just hadn't gotten to it yet. ;)
Not everyone can immediately
On Tue, Apr 17, 2018 at 12:41:15PM -0400, R P Herrold wrote:
> On Tue, 17 Apr 2018, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote:
>
> > > That said, maybe Fedora's service preset files these days are
> > > carefully enough written and already formalize such deliberation?
> >
> > Pfff. Yes they are. See
> >
On Tue, Apr 17, 2018 at 11:00:55AM -0500, Ian Pilcher wrote:
> On 04/17/2018 12:41 AM, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote:
> >tl;dr: the proposal is to start services immediately during
> >installation (in %post), iff they are enabled in presets and the
> >system is live (not a chroot or such).
> >
On Tue, 17 Apr 2018, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote:
> > That said, maybe Fedora's service preset files these days are
> > carefully enough written and already formalize such deliberation?
>
> Pfff. Yes they are. See
> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging:DefaultServices.
Is packager ins
On 04/17/2018 12:41 AM, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote:
tl;dr: the proposal is to start services immediately during
installation (in %post), iff they are enabled in presets and the
system is live (not a chroot or such).
This would mean that e.g. after 'dnf install gpm' gpm would be running
wh
Dne 17.4.2018 v 09:23 Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek napsal(a):
> Actually we do. If systemd is running and dnf is installing packages
> into the same root from which it is running, it's a live system.
Hmm, this will work for Mock. Thou I am not sure about others environments.
Miroslav
_
On Tue, Apr 17, 2018 at 10:52 AM, Petr Pisar wrote:
> You mean systemctl can talk to a systemd via
> /var/run/dbus/system_bus_socket. Ok.
IIRC, systemctl detects that it is running in chrooted environment
(i.e. system isn't "live") by looking at inode number of /. If the
number that systemctl se
On Tue, Apr 17, 2018 at 09:44:45AM +0200, Lennart Poettering wrote:
> On Di, 17.04.18 05:41, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek (zbys...@in.waw.pl) wrote:
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I'm a bit surprised that there's no reply to this fairly explosive
> > idea. Maybe Nikos' text is too long, so let me summarize
On 2018-04-17, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 17, 2018 at 08:30:59AM +0200, Miroslav Suchý wrote:
>> Dne 17.4.2018 v 07:46 Petr Pisar napsal(a):
>> > Maybe nobody knows how to determine a system is live.
>>
>> +1
>
> Actually we do. If systemd is running
You mean systemctl can
On Di, 17.04.18 05:41, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek (zbys...@in.waw.pl) wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I'm a bit surprised that there's no reply to this fairly explosive
> idea. Maybe Nikos' text is too long, so let me summarize:
>
> tl;dr: the proposal is to start services immediately during
> installatio
On Tue, Apr 17, 2018 at 09:23:24AM +0200, Jakub Jelen wrote:
> On Tue, 2018-04-17 at 05:46 +, Petr Pisar wrote:
> > On 2018-04-17, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote:
> > > I'm a bit surprised that there's no reply to this fairly explosive
> > > idea. Maybe Nikos' text is too long, so let me su
On Tue, 2018-04-17 at 05:46 +, Petr Pisar wrote:
> On 2018-04-17, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote:
> > I'm a bit surprised that there's no reply to this fairly explosive
> > idea. Maybe Nikos' text is too long, so let me summarize:
> >
> > tl;dr: the proposal is to start services immediatel
On Tue, Apr 17, 2018 at 08:30:59AM +0200, Miroslav Suchý wrote:
> Dne 17.4.2018 v 07:46 Petr Pisar napsal(a):
> > Maybe nobody knows how to determine a system is live.
>
> +1
Actually we do. If systemd is running and dnf is installing packages
into the same root from which it is running, it's a l
Dne 17.4.2018 v 07:46 Petr Pisar napsal(a):
> Maybe nobody knows how to determine a system is live.
+1
Miroslav
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On 2018-04-17, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote:
> I'm a bit surprised that there's no reply to this fairly explosive
> idea. Maybe Nikos' text is too long, so let me summarize:
>
> tl;dr: the proposal is to start services immediately during
> installation (in %post), iff they are enabled in pres
Hi all,
I'm a bit surprised that there's no reply to this fairly explosive
idea. Maybe Nikos' text is too long, so let me summarize:
tl;dr: the proposal is to start services immediately during
installation (in %post), iff they are enabled in presets and the
system is live (not a chroot or such).
In [0] it was reported that after installation of pcsc-lite in Fedora,
no smart cards were functioning at the system. After rebooting Fedora
everything was functioning as expected.
The issue is that the pcsc daemon uses a socket-activated unit
which is installed by dnf, but not started (and hence
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