On Mon, Dec 11, 2023 at 12:53:00PM -0500, Stephen Smoogen wrote:
> > > We could just have an /etc tree like we see now but in /usr/share/etc
> > > (or /usr/etc, but then I get IRIX nightmares) and your local overrides
> > > exist in /etc. Things like fstab will probably just have to always be
> >
On Mo, 11.12.23 11:10, DJ Delorie (d...@redhat.com) wrote:
> Lennart Poettering writes:
> > Well, as you might be aware many distributions these days do more than
> > "files dns" for "hosts", and similar for the other databases, and
> > hence a built-in default in glibc is great, but most distrib
On Mon, Dec 11, 2023, at 12:31 PM, Neal Gompa wrote:
>
> We're currently not allowed to use /usr/etc (not that I like that path
> anyway) because it breaks RPM-OSTree. My understanding is that this
> directory is reserved by RPM-OSTree for storing pristine copies of
> /etc content for each OSTre
On 12/11/23 12:31, Neal Gompa wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 11, 2023 at 11:36 AM David Cantrell wrote:
>>
>> On 12/8/23 10:25, Stephen Gallagher wrote:
>>> On Fri, Dec 8, 2023 at 9:58 AM Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek
>>> wrote:
Hi,
There is a long-term goal of moving packaged files out o
On Mon, 11 Dec 2023 at 12:34, Neal Gompa wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 11, 2023 at 11:36 AM David Cantrell
> wrote:
> >
> > On 12/8/23 10:25, Stephen Gallagher wrote:
> > > On Fri, Dec 8, 2023 at 9:58 AM Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek
> > > wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Hi,
> > >>
> > >> There is a long-term goal o
On Mon, Dec 11, 2023 at 11:36 AM David Cantrell wrote:
>
> On 12/8/23 10:25, Stephen Gallagher wrote:
> > On Fri, Dec 8, 2023 at 9:58 AM Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> There is a long-term goal of moving packaged files out of /etc, so that
> >> only actual local co
On 12/8/23 10:25, Stephen Gallagher wrote:
> On Fri, Dec 8, 2023 at 9:58 AM Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek
> wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> There is a long-term goal of moving packaged files out of /etc, so that
>> only actual local configuration remains in /etc. This has some advantages:
>>
>> - Local confi
Lennart Poettering writes:
> Well, as you might be aware many distributions these days do more than
> "files dns" for "hosts", and similar for the other databases, and
> hence a built-in default in glibc is great, but most distributions and
> image builders probably want to pick different defaults
Once upon a time, Peter Boy said:
> I would like to go even further and also separate distribution default code
> and locally installed code in the /usr tree. OpenSuse has developed a good
> proposal for this some time ago.
More separation than /usr vs. /usr/local?
--
Chris Adams
--
___
On 12/11/23 09:55, Peter Boy wrote:
Am 11.12.2023 um 15:09 schrieb David Both :
What is the objective of achieving this "boot with empty /etc"? What
does it accomplish? What problem does it solve?
For me, from a sysadmin POV, the great advantage is the clear separation of
sysadmin made confi
> Am 11.12.2023 um 15:09 schrieb David Both :
>
> What is the objective of achieving this "boot with empty /etc"? What
> does it accomplish? What problem does it solve?
For me, from a sysadmin POV, the great advantage is the clear separation of
sysadmin made configuration and distribution prov
On Mon, Dec 11, 2023 at 09:09:33AM -0500, David Both wrote:
>
> I think I understand the immediate goal here, but I am still confused.
> What is the objective of achieving this "boot with empty /etc"? What
> does it accomplish? What problem does it solve? Is it a solution for a
> small use case su
related to Fedora
Subject: SPAM (302.2) Re: goal: booting with an empty /etc
On Mon, Dec 11, 2023 at 09:58:04AM +0100, Florian Weimer wrote:
* Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek:
No, it would be the other way round. We might have a
/usr/share/glibc/services which contains :include: /etc/services
On Mon, Dec 11, 2023 at 09:58:04AM +0100, Florian Weimer wrote:
> * Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek:
>
> >> No, it would be the other way round. We might have a
> >> /usr/share/glibc/services which contains :include: /etc/services
> >> somewhere in it.
> >
> > Ah, OK. I understand how the format woul
On Fr, 08.12.23 20:20, DJ Delorie (d...@redhat.com) wrote:
> Lennart Poettering writes:
> > That said, I would certainly enjoy more if glibc would natively
> > fallback to /usr/lib/glibc/nsswitch.conf or something like that if
> > /etc/nsswitch.conf does not exist.
>
> glibc has an internal defau
* Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek:
>> No, it would be the other way round. We might have a
>> /usr/share/glibc/services which contains :include: /etc/services
>> somewhere in it.
>
> Ah, OK. I understand how the format would look, but I don't understand
> why you'd want to implement it rather than so
On 12/9/23 16:55, DJ Delorie wrote:
Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek writes:
I'm not entirely sure if you're just doing Friday trolling or if
you're serious.
Serious. I have many machines and VMs, and every time I do a Fedora
install, I have a list of your choices I have to revert because they
don
Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek writes:
> I'm not entirely sure if you're just doing Friday trolling or if
> you're serious.
Serious. I have many machines and VMs, and every time I do a Fedora
install, I have a list of your choices I have to revert because they
don't work for me. It's tiring.
>> I
Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek writes:
> That built-in would be enough only if it enabled all the modules
> that we need it to support.
It enables the ones that *glibc* needs to run at a minimum. Your case
is different, which is why you modify /etc/nsswitch.conf.
> I tried to figure out what the d
On Fri, Dec 08, 2023 at 07:25:08PM +0100, Florian Weimer wrote:
> * Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek:
>
> > On Fri, Dec 08, 2023 at 05:23:08PM +0100, Florian Weimer wrote:
> >> * Stephen Gallagher:
> >>
> >> > That being said, there are files like /etc/nsswitch.conf, /etc/pam.d/*
> >> > and /etc/fstab
On Fri, Dec 08, 2023 at 12:14:09PM -0500, Steve Grubb wrote:
> On Friday, December 8, 2023 11:57:55 AM EST Adam Williamson wrote:
> > On Fri, 2023-12-08 at 11:49 -0500, Steve Grubb wrote:
> > > On Friday, December 8, 2023 11:23:29 AM EST Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > But
On Sat, Dec 09, 2023 at 08:03:48AM +, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote:
> I'm not entirely sure if you're just doing Friday trolling or if
> you're serious. I'll reply for real, apologies if this was meant as
> a joke.
DJ has been hacking on free software since I was still at school, so
no, h
I'm not entirely sure if you're just doing Friday trolling or if
you're serious. I'll reply for real, apologies if this was meant as
a joke.
On Fri, Dec 08, 2023 at 12:59:22PM -0500, DJ Delorie wrote:
> Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek writes:
> > There is a long-term goal of moving packaged files out
On Fri, Dec 08, 2023 at 08:20:25PM -0500, DJ Delorie wrote:
> Lennart Poettering writes:
> > That said, I would certainly enjoy more if glibc would natively
> > fallback to /usr/lib/glibc/nsswitch.conf or something like that if
> > /etc/nsswitch.conf does not exist.
>
> glibc has an internal defa
Lennart Poettering writes:
> That said, I would certainly enjoy more if glibc would natively
> fallback to /usr/lib/glibc/nsswitch.conf or something like that if
> /etc/nsswitch.conf does not exist.
glibc has an internal default for nsswitch.conf if one isn't found.
Putting a custom nsswitch.conf
On Fr, 08.12.23 10:25, Stephen Gallagher (sgall...@redhat.com) wrote:
> That being said, there are files like /etc/nsswitch.conf,
> /etc/pam.d/*
So for /etc/nsswitch.conf (and some degree of /etc/pam.d/) a
short-term half-way fix is this I guess:
https://github.com/authselect/authselect/issues/3
On Fr, 08.12.23 17:23, Florian Weimer (fwei...@redhat.com) wrote:
> * Stephen Gallagher:
>
> > That being said, there are files like /etc/nsswitch.conf, /etc/pam.d/*
> > and /etc/fstab which are both API *and* sometimes see manual updates.
> > These are some of the cases that are going to make get
* Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek:
> On Fri, Dec 08, 2023 at 05:23:08PM +0100, Florian Weimer wrote:
>> * Stephen Gallagher:
>>
>> > That being said, there are files like /etc/nsswitch.conf, /etc/pam.d/*
>> > and /etc/fstab which are both API *and* sometimes see manual updates.
>> > These are some of
Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek writes:
> There is a long-term goal of moving packaged files out of /etc,
I will note that I'm opposed to this goal as a goal per-se.
If you want an empty directory, "mkdir /etc2" should work for you.
I fear this will end like the /tmp fiasco where one /tmp became ma
On Friday, December 8, 2023 11:57:55 AM EST Adam Williamson wrote:
> On Fri, 2023-12-08 at 11:49 -0500, Steve Grubb wrote:
> > On Friday, December 8, 2023 11:23:29 AM EST Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek
> > wrote:
> >
> > > But yeah, there'll always be a few "special" files. But that's fine,
> > > we
On Fri, 2023-12-08 at 11:49 -0500, Steve Grubb wrote:
> On Friday, December 8, 2023 11:23:29 AM EST Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek
> wrote:
> > But yeah, there'll always be a few "special" files. But that's fine,
> > we have mechanisms to handle those. For the other 99%, we should
> > move them out o
On Friday, December 8, 2023 11:23:29 AM EST Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek
wrote:
> But yeah, there'll always be a few "special" files. But that's fine,
> we have mechanisms to handle those. For the other 99%, we should
> move them out of /etc.
The problem is that there would need to be a standard t
On Fri, Dec 08, 2023 at 05:23:08PM +0100, Florian Weimer wrote:
> * Stephen Gallagher:
>
> > That being said, there are files like /etc/nsswitch.conf, /etc/pam.d/*
> > and /etc/fstab which are both API *and* sometimes see manual updates.
> > These are some of the cases that are going to make getti
On Fri, Dec 08, 2023 at 10:25:34AM -0500, Stephen Gallagher wrote:
> On Fri, Dec 8, 2023 at 9:58 AM Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > There is a long-term goal of moving packaged files out of /etc, so that
> > only actual local configuration remains in /etc. This has some ad
* Stephen Gallagher:
> That being said, there are files like /etc/nsswitch.conf, /etc/pam.d/*
> and /etc/fstab which are both API *and* sometimes see manual updates.
> These are some of the cases that are going to make getting to an empty
> /etc very hard to finish off. There's a lot of low-hangin
On Fri, Dec 8, 2023 at 10:26 AM Stephen Gallagher wrote:
>
> On Fri, Dec 8, 2023 at 9:58 AM Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > There is a long-term goal of moving packaged files out of /etc, so that
> > only actual local configuration remains in /etc. This has some advantage
On Fri, Dec 8, 2023 at 9:58 AM Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek
wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> There is a long-term goal of moving packaged files out of /etc, so that
> only actual local configuration remains in /etc. This has some advantages:
>
> - Local configuration, i.e. the result of local administrative acti
Hi,
There is a long-term goal of moving packaged files out of /etc, so that
only actual local configuration remains in /etc. This has some advantages:
- Local configuration, i.e. the result of local administrative actions,
is nicely split from static configuration that is part of package payloa
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