On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 08:25:53AM +0200, David Tardon wrote:
> > The formatting done by "ls" is not already available to the user as a
> > command that can be piped to.
>
> ls | column
Doesn't give me the same output as ls.
ls is a poor anaolgue for systemctl in this respect anyway so we can p
On Sun, Jun 19, 2011 at 09:46:29AM +0200, Aaron Sowry wrote:
> On Sat, Jun 18, 2011 at 10:25:53PM +0200, Lennart Poettering wrote:
> > > Yes, but the difference here is that "ls" does not re-implement something
> > > that
> > > is already available at the command line.
> >
> > Hmm???
>
> The for
Sam Varshavchik (mr...@courier-mta.com) said:
> >Sam Varshavchik (mr...@courier-mta.com) said:
> >> * Make chkconfig know about systemd, so if it gets an on or off for
> >> a service, it executes systemctl enable/disable instead.
> >
> >It already does this.
>
> Strange. If I pass the service nam
Bill Nottingham writes:
Sam Varshavchik (mr...@courier-mta.com) said:
> * Make chkconfig know about systemd, so if it gets an on or off for
> a service, it executes systemctl enable/disable instead.
It already does this.
Strange. If I pass the service name in the --initscript argument to
al
Sam Varshavchik (mr...@courier-mta.com) said:
> * Make chkconfig know about systemd, so if it gets an on or off for
> a service, it executes systemctl enable/disable instead.
It already does this.
Bill
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On Mon, 20.06.11 11:12, Michal Hlavinka (mhlav...@redhat.com) wrote:
> I'll add one (small) inconsistency:
>
> # systemctl is-active
>
> has following output:
> > active
> and sets exit code. If you don't wont any output, you need to use "--quiet"
>
> # systemctl is-enabled
> just sets exit
On Mon, 20.06.11 06:50, Steve Clark (scl...@netwolves.com) wrote:
> That is the issue. In every discussion I have seen Lennart and all his
> supporters say well if you don't like it use something else. Show me
> on example where it has been otherwise in the last month on this
> mailing list.
You
On Sun, 19.06.11 19:09, Steve Clark (scl...@netwolves.com) wrote:
> Aaron, haven't you figured it out yet? As far as Lennart is concerned it is
> his way or the highway!
>
> My $.02 after following all the threads about sysemd/ctl.
This is such a useless comment. In this thread alone I accepted
On 06/19/2011 10:25 PM, Matthew Garrett wrote:
On Sun, Jun 19, 2011 at 07:09:14PM -0400, Steve Clark wrote:
Aaron, haven't you figured it out yet? As far as Lennart is concerned it
is his way or the highway!
My $.02 after following all the threads about sysemd/ctl.
Steve,
This is
On 06/17/2011 10:16 PM, Aaron Sowry wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I'd like to discuss the behaviour of systemctl. See RH bug 713567 for
> context. To summarise:
>
> - 'systemctl --all' pages by default when the output is to tty. This consumes
> 50-60+ lines of potential
On Sun, Jun 19, 2011 at 03:49:12PM -0400, Rich Mattes wrote:
> The best place to discuss bugs and design decisions for a project is on
> that project's mailing list[1]. fedora-devel is the correct forum if
> there are Fedora related integration issues, but whether or not systemd
> pages output
Martin Langhoff writes:
Let's have interesting discussion of systemd -- lots of things that
were familiar are now new and strange. But keep overreactions in
check, and the discussion technical and productive.
Here's something I just stumbled upon.
alternatives has a parameter --initscript tha
On Sat, Jun 18, 2011 at 11:25 AM, Lennart Poettering
wrote:
> You know, I'd prefer if you take up your beef with "ls" first. Have you
> ever compared the output of "ls" and of "ls | cat"? And that's just the
> most obvious case.
Indeed, ls, grep, git and many many modern cli tools use this conven
On Sun, Jun 19, 2011 at 07:09:14PM -0400, Steve Clark wrote:
>Aaron, haven't you figured it out yet? As far as Lennart is concerned it
>is his way or the highway!
>
>My $.02 after following all the threads about sysemd/ctl.
Steve,
This is a technical mailing list and this kind of re
On 06/20/2011 04:39 AM, Steve Clark wrote:
> Aaron, haven't you figured it out yet? As far as Lennart is concerned
> it is his way or the highway!
>
> My $.02 after following all the threads about sysemd/ctl.
This is not a constructive way to participate. There is valid room for
disagreement but
On 06/19/2011 06:54 AM, Aaron Sowry wrote:
On Sun, Jun 19, 2011 at 10:03:05AM +0100, Martin Dengler wrote:
Your point about column headers is taken (explicitly, in my mail) and
bears no more repeating since there's a bug about it.
I didn't realise there was a bug for this, which is it?
Your p
On 06/19/2011 03:46 AM, Aaron Sowry wrote:
And how does that matter for Fedora?
>>> It doesn't I guess, but are you writing systemd for Fedora, or as a general
>>> replacement for SysV init?
>> But what's the point of discussing this on fedora-devel then?
> Because this seems to be the place w
Am 19.06.2011 20:48, schrieb Aaron Sowry:
> If I haven't made the disputes clear enough for you by now, then I'm afraid
> I'm
> not sure what else I can say. Uselessness it probably not the point here
> though, the
> point is all of the other downsides associated with such an implementation.
>
On Sun, Jun 19, 2011 at 06:43:46PM +0100, Martin Dengler wrote:
> On Sun, Jun 19, 2011 at 12:54:38PM +0200, Aaron Sowry wrote:
> > On Sun, Jun 19, 2011 at 10:03:05AM +0100, Martin Dengler wrote:
> > > Your point about column headers is taken (explicitly, in my mail) and
> > > bears no more repeatin
On Sun, Jun 19, 2011 at 12:54:38PM +0200, Aaron Sowry wrote:
> On Sun, Jun 19, 2011 at 10:03:05AM +0100, Martin Dengler wrote:
> > Your point about column headers is taken (explicitly, in my mail) and
> > bears no more repeating since there's a bug about it.
>
> I didn't realise there was a bug fo
On Sun, Jun 19, 2011 at 10:11:15AM +0100, Martin Dengler wrote:
> > The formatting done by "ls" is not already available to the user as
> > a command that can be piped to.
>
> Of course the formatting done is (already available to the user).
> With sed, awk, cut, join, sh, etc. lots of formatting
On Sun, Jun 19, 2011 at 10:03:05AM +0100, Martin Dengler wrote:
> Your point about column headers is taken (explicitly, in my mail) and
> bears no more repeating since there's a bug about it.
I didn't realise there was a bug for this, which is it?
> Your point about paging continues to be that yo
On Sun, Jun 19, 2011 at 09:46:29AM +0200, Aaron Sowry wrote:
> On Sat, Jun 18, 2011 at 10:25:53PM +0200, Lennart Poettering wrote:
> > > Yes, but the difference here is that "ls" does not re-implement something
> > > that
> > > is already available at the command line.
> >
> > Hmm???
>
> The for
On Sat, Jun 18, 2011 at 10:46:48AM +0200, Aaron Sowry wrote:
> On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 04:31:08PM -0700, Jesse Keating wrote:
> > The apps that I've seen where they do something special like paging the
> > output by default, will not do that if the output is a non-active tty,
> > such as a pipe.
On Sat, Jun 18, 2011 at 10:25:53PM +0200, Lennart Poettering wrote:
> > Yes, but the difference here is that "ls" does not re-implement something
> > that
> > is already available at the command line.
>
> Hmm???
The formatting done by "ls" is not already available to the user as a command
that
On Sat, 18.06.11 21:52, Aaron Sowry (aaron...@aeneby.se) wrote:
> On Sat, Jun 18, 2011 at 05:25:36PM +0200, Lennart Poettering wrote:
> > You know, I'd prefer if you take up your beef with "ls" first. Have you
> > ever compared the output of "ls" and of "ls | cat"? And that's just the
> > most obv
On Sat, Jun 18, 2011 at 05:25:36PM +0200, Lennart Poettering wrote:
> You know, I'd prefer if you take up your beef with "ls" first. Have you
> ever compared the output of "ls" and of "ls | cat"? And that's just the
> most obvious case.
Yes, but the difference here is that "ls" does not re-impleme
Hi.
On Sat, 18 Jun 2011 17:25:36 +0200, Lennart Poettering wrote
> another way is deeply rooted in Linux heritage. Autopaging is just a
> small step forward in that area. And a very welcome one.
Do you have anything to back that claim up?
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On Sat, 18.06.11 16:39, Aaron Sowry (aaron...@aeneby.se) wrote:
> > > - The same command outputs column headers on tty, and no headers
> > > otherwise. This is inconsistent. If I am outputting to a file, or
> > > perhaps a printer, and want headers on my non-tty output, I have to
> > > add t
On Sat, Jun 18, 2011 at 01:55:43PM +0200, Lennart Poettering wrote:
> > - 'systemctl --all' pages by default when the output is to tty. This
> > consumes 50-60+ lines of potentially bug-prone code, and irks the
> > crap out of me as a system administrator. systemctl's jurisdiction
> > ends at
On 06/18/2011 03:02 PM, Lennart Poettering wrote:
> Ask us nicely and we'll add SYSTEMD_PAGER for you, taking precedence
> over PAGER.
>
> Even more convincing might be prepping a patch for this.
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=38439
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On Sat, Jun 18, 2011 at 1:55 PM, Lennart Poettering
wrote:
>> I'd like to discuss the behaviour of systemctl. See RH bug 713567 for
>> context. To summarise:
>>
>> - 'systemctl --all' pages by default when the output is to tty. This
>> consumes 50
On Sat, 18.06.11 13:02, Ville Skyttä (ville.sky...@iki.fi) wrote:
>
> On 06/18/2011 01:06 AM, Aaron Sowry wrote:
> > n Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 10:41:14PM +0100, Martin Dengler wrote:
> >> As you point out, git-log and --help do this too. It's excellent.
> >> Make it configurable if you must, but I'
On Sat, 18.06.11 10:46, Aaron Sowry (aaron...@aeneby.se) wrote:
> On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 04:31:08PM -0700, Jesse Keating wrote:
> > The apps that I've seen where they do something special like paging the
> > output by default, will not do that if the output is a non-active tty,
> > such as a pi
On Fri, 17.06.11 22:16, Aaron Sowry (aaron...@aeneby.se) wrote:
> Hello,
Heya,
> I'd like to discuss the behaviour of systemctl. See RH bug 713567 for
> context. To summarise:
>
> - 'systemctl --all' pages by default when the output is to tty. This
> consume
On 06/18/2011 01:06 AM, Aaron Sowry wrote:
> n Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 10:41:14PM +0100, Martin Dengler wrote:
>> As you point out, git-log and --help do this too. It's excellent.
>> Make it configurable if you must, but I'd be interested to think why
>> you think it's not always the useful thing to
On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 04:31:08PM -0700, Jesse Keating wrote:
> The apps that I've seen where they do something special like paging the
> output by default, will not do that if the output is a non-active tty,
> such as a pipe. When you pipe it into something it'll react differently.
Yes, and t
On 6/17/11 3:06 PM, Aaron Sowry wrote:
> No ship has sailed anywhere, because there are plenty of places
> output can be sent en route to tty - 'watch' and 'egrep' are two
> examples. Also, tty is not the only place people want to send
> user-friendly input. What about files and printers?
The apps
n Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 10:41:14PM +0100, Martin Dengler wrote:
> As you point out, git-log and --help do this too. It's excellent.
> Make it configurable if you must, but I'd be interested to think why
> you think it's not always the useful thing to do.
The reasons why it's not the useful thing t
On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 10:16:35PM +0200, Aaron Sowry wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I'd like to discuss the behaviour of systemctl. See RH bug 713567
> for context. To summarise:
>
> - 'systemctl --all' pages by default when the output is to tty. This
> consumes 50-60+
Hello,
I'd like to discuss the behaviour of systemctl. See RH bug 713567 for context.
To summarise:
- 'systemctl --all' pages by default when the output is to tty. This consumes
50-60+ lines of potentially bug-prone code, and irks the crap out of me as a
system administrat
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