John5342 wrote:
> I don't know if you noticed but that bug shows it isn't and never has
> been assigned to anybody so it is not entirely impossible nobody has
> actually seen it...
Well, that's a failure of upstream's process then. Somebody has to look at
incoming bug reports, you cannot treat yo
On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 15:27, Kevin Kofler wrote:
> Anything that directly or indirectly uses QtWebKit or QtScript also requires
> execmem, unless we disable the JavaScript JIT, which we used to do, but got
> users complaining about the slowness.
>
> See also:
> https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cg
Daniel J Walsh wrote:
> Any time I go into a rawhide I enable the tightest controls. Then
> relax them as we get closer to Beta. I am thinking of dropping
> execmem protection from user apps altogether as I see almost all
> applications that a user relies on needing execmem. The attached
> regul
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On 11/08/2011 01:11 AM, Adam Williamson wrote:
> On Tue, 2011-11-08 at 04:48 +0100, Kevin Kofler wrote:
>> Adam Williamson wrote:
>>> It seems like a similar bug has come up before in clamav:
>>>
>>> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=573191
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On 11/07/2011 10:48 PM, Kevin Kofler wrote:
> Adam Williamson wrote:
>> It seems like a similar bug has come up before in clamav:
>>
>> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=573191
>
> This issue affects many JITs. The WebKit JIT is affected to
On Tue, 2011-11-08 at 09:43 +0100, Denys Vlasenko wrote:
> Good luck then.
Thank you. Three words of hope: nautilus spatial mode. :-)
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On Tue, 2011-11-08 at 09:31 +1100, Bojan Smojver wrote:
> On Mon, 2011-11-07 at 14:33 +0100, Denys Vlasenko wrote:
> > You won't be able to convince Gnome3 zealots.
>
> That's a bit harsh, I think. They are just very impressionable folk. :-)
>
> > Believe me, a lot of people tried.
>
> I would l
Mathieu Bridon fedoraproject.org> writes:
> You probably want to switch to Linux Mint 12 when it comes out with
> their GSME enabled.
Now you're being funny. :-)
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On Tue, 2011-11-08 at 09:31 +1100, Bojan Smojver wrote:
> On Mon, 2011-11-07 at 14:33 +0100, Denys Vlasenko wrote:
> > You won't be able to convince Gnome3 zealots.
>
> That's a bit harsh, I think. They are just very impressionable folk. :-)
That's also a bit harsh I think, and I'd appreciate it
On Tue, 2011-11-08 at 04:48 +0100, Kevin Kofler wrote:
> Adam Williamson wrote:
> > It seems like a similar bug has come up before in clamav:
> >
> > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=573191
>
> This issue affects many JITs. The WebKit JIT is affected too. Actually, the
> execmem boole
Adam Williamson wrote:
> It seems like a similar bug has come up before in clamav:
>
> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=573191
This issue affects many JITs. The WebKit JIT is affected too. Actually, the
execmem boolean has been enabled by default for a while, did it get disabled
agai
On 11/08/2011 12:45 AM, Adam Williamson wrote:
> On Tue, 2011-11-08 at 09:31 +1100, Bojan Smojver wrote:
>
>> I think what will most likely happen is that someone out there will come
>> up with an extension to nuke the Activities button and replace it with
>> Applications button. And that will be
Adam Williamson redhat.com> writes:
> There's been one for months, and yet 'the end of that discussion' does
> not appear to have come, and not all Shell users use it.
>
> http://intgat.tigress.co.uk/rmy/extensions/index.html
Yeah, guilty as charged on the discussion bit.
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On Tue, 2011-11-08 at 09:31 +1100, Bojan Smojver wrote:
> I think what will most likely happen is that someone out there will come
> up with an extension to nuke the Activities button and replace it with
> Applications button. And that will be the end of that discussion.
There's been one for mont
On Mon, 2011-11-07 at 16:05 -0500, Adam Jackson wrote:
> On Mon, 2011-11-07 at 14:55 +, Peter Robinson wrote:
>
> > Details of rawhide builds for them here[1], the XO-1 build isn't
> > tested but the XO 1.5 one works fine, I'll be testing further and
> > likely the next build I do I'll add all
Bojan Smojver rexursive.com> writes:
> Don't worry - I'm sure someone will write an extension that will nuke the
> stupid Activities button sooner or later.
I'm behind times:
http://intgat.tigress.co.uk/rmy/extensions/index.html
Open source - it's a wonderful thing.
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drago01 gmail.com> writes:
> Just point people to the link directly if you want them to read it
> (should be easier for both sides).
Spamming the list with links to my own site is not something I want to do. If
someone really wants to read that, they'll find it.
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Mathieu Bridon fedoraproject.org> writes:
> And if you really loved Gnome 2 so much
If this is what think, then you really completely missed what I'm trying to say.
The main reason I'm using the fallback mode is the insanity of overview in
gnome-shell.
Don't worry - I'm sure someone will write
On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 11:35 PM, Bojan Smojver wrote:
> Mike Chambers miketc.net> writes:
>
>> Reading all sorts of stuff or trying to but havcen't found yours yet
>> (don't like it neither, so wanted to see your thoughts on it too)
>
> If you google '"on gnome 3" bojan', it should come up in top
Mike Chambers miketc.net> writes:
> Reading all sorts of stuff or trying to but havcen't found yours yet
> (don't like it neither, so wanted to see your thoughts on it too)
If you google '"on gnome 3" bojan', it should come up in top 10.
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On Mon, 2011-11-07 at 14:33 +0100, Denys Vlasenko wrote:
> You won't be able to convince Gnome3 zealots.
That's a bit harsh, I think. They are just very impressionable folk. :-)
> Believe me, a lot of people tried.
I would like to believe that a rational argument eventually prevails.
> Vote wit
On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 9:05 PM, Adam Jackson wrote:
> On Mon, 2011-11-07 at 14:55 +, Peter Robinson wrote:
>
>> Details of rawhide builds for them here[1], the XO-1 build isn't
>> tested but the XO 1.5 one works fine, I'll be testing further and
>> likely the next build I do I'll add all the c
On Mon, 2011-11-07 at 14:55 +, Peter Robinson wrote:
> Details of rawhide builds for them here[1], the XO-1 build isn't
> tested but the XO 1.5 one works fine, I'll be testing further and
> likely the next build I do I'll add all the components to test the
> llvmpipe feature on them.
Don't fr
On Mon, 2011-11-07 at 10:11 -0500, Martin Langhoff wrote:
> >> For now let's say yes, but that's more like implementation detail than
> >> fundamental property. Clutter'd be perfectly happy atop a GLES
> >> renderer, we just don't have that wired up.
>
> Ok -- that doesn't sound so terrible. Are
On Sun, 2011-11-06 at 22:42 +, Bojan Smojver wrote:
> drago01 gmail.com> writes:
>
> > Not true ... I recommend reading
> > https://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/Design/#Activities_Overview
>
> I read that a long, long time ago, of course. In fact, I have written a
> constructive critique of Gno
On Sat, Nov 05, 2011 at 09:46:41PM +0100, Kevin Kofler wrote:
> enaut wrote:
> > I am one of them and I went directly from the tilling-WM Xmonad to gnome
> > 3! So you can't say it's only for absolute noobs :).
>
> The fact that you were using a tiling WM first shows that you are much more
> will
On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 9:55 AM, Peter Robinson wrote:
> Details of rawhide builds for them here[1], the XO-1 build isn't
> tested but the XO 1.5 one works fine, I'll be testing further and
> likely the next build I do I'll add all the components to test the
> llvmpipe feature on them.
>
> [1] http
On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 2:45 PM, Adam Jackson wrote:
> On Mon, 2011-11-07 at 09:37 -0500, Martin Langhoff wrote:
>
>> What's the plan for rather old, limited hardware? Have you personally
>> got XO-1, XO-1.5 units to test? We'll be testing it (with some
>> trepidation) at OLPC, but it's always bett
On Mon, 2011-11-07 at 09:37 -0500, Martin Langhoff wrote:
> What's the plan for rather old, limited hardware? Have you personally
> got XO-1, XO-1.5 units to test? We'll be testing it (with some
> trepidation) at OLPC, but it's always better if you can see it in all
> its glory on your own.
I hav
On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 5:57 PM, Adam Jackson wrote:
> As of tomorrow's rawhide [1], gnome-session will no longer treat
> llvmpipe as an unsupported driver. This means gnome-shell will run even
> on hardware without a native 3D driver, including virt guests.
>
> There are probably bugs! I've done
On Sat, 2011-11-05 at 13:40 +, Bojan Smojver wrote:
> w googlemail.com>
> writes:
>
> > Yet look at all the happy users of
> default Gnome 3!
> > I am one of them and I went directly
> from the tilling-WM Xmonad to gnome
> > 3! So you can't say it's only for
> absolute noobs :). I install
On Mon, 2011-11-07 at 03:24 +, Bojan Smojver wrote:
> Mathieu Bridon fedoraproject.org> writes:
>
> > [..snip..] and thanks to my incredibly poor focus [..snip..]
>
> > Oh, and I don't think I am a "Joe Average" or an "Aunt Tillie": I'm a
> > Fedora package maintainer, Python developer, a re
Mathieu Bridon fedoraproject.org> writes:
> [..snip..] and thanks to my incredibly poor focus [..snip..]
> Oh, and I don't think I am a "Joe Average" or an "Aunt Tillie": I'm a
> Fedora package maintainer, Python developer, a release engineer for an
> in-house Linux distribution at $dayjob, and
On Sun, 2011-11-06 at 23:33 +, Bojan Smojver wrote:
> Please, just give me the name of _one_ user that got _distracted_ by the
> taskbar in Gnome (or any other OS, for that matter).
Look at the value of the « From: » header of this email for a name of
such a user.
> The name of one user that
Mathieu Bridon fedoraproject.org> writes:
> instead of complaining and being insulting?
Point to one insult please.
Constructive criticism is not complaining.
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On Sun, 2011-11-06 at 23:25 +, Bojan Smojver wrote:
> I did not imply that users that use gnome-shell as is are insane. What I said
> was that GUI behaviour that introduces many _unnecessary_ steps for _no_
> _benefit_ is insane.
Did you even read my answer to you earlier where I said that I w
On Fri, 04 Nov 2011 18:23:02 +0100
Kevin Kofler wrote:
> > If I filed every bug in the distro in upstream I'd have a dozen
> > different bugzilla accounts by now.
>
> So what? Maintainers are not messengers, they have other work to do than
> forwarding the bugs you're too lazy to file directly
Frederic Muller cm17.com> writes:
> me! I'd click to see what was 'happening' on the other workspace.
:-)
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On 11/07/2011 07:33 AM, Bojan Smojver wrote:
> The name of one user that
> was tempted to switch tasks just because the taskbar/workspace switcher
me! I'd click to see what was 'happening' on the other workspace.
Fred
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drago01 gmail.com> writes:
Again, rebuttal only.
> I didn't comment on whether your arguments are valid or not I simply
> said that "confused users" was *not* the reason for the lack of
> taskbar. distraction != confusion.
Now we're splitting hairs, eh? A distracted user is not a confused user,
Florian Müllner gnome.org> writes:
Rebuttal only here. No new material.
> Does that mean that the existence of terminal emulators for X11 is proof
> of graphical user interfaces being a mistake?
Terminal and (I guess other) GUI apps do entirely _different_ things. Apps menu
in overview and apps
On dom, 2011-11-06 at 22:42 +, Bojan Smojver wrote:
> The existence of all those extensions that bring back sanity (apps menu in
> normal view, workspaces in normal view, persistent dash for switching tasks in
> normal view etc.) is the proof of the ultimate irony - the (supposedly)
> biggest
On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 12:09 AM, Bojan Smojver wrote:
> drago01 gmail.com> writes:
>
>> Not true ... I recommend reading
>> https://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/Design/#Activities_Overview
>
> Just one link, so you wouldn't say I'm plucking things out of thin air:
>
> https://live.gnome.org/GnomeShe
drago01 gmail.com> writes:
> Not true ... I recommend reading
> https://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/Design/#Activities_Overview
Just one link, so you wouldn't say I'm plucking things out of thin air:
https://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/Design/FAQ#Why_no_window_list_or_dock.3F
This explains... ...
drago01 gmail.com> writes:
> Not true ... I recommend reading
> https://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/Design/#Activities_Overview
I read that a long, long time ago, of course. In fact, I have written a
constructive critique of Gnome 3 many months ago, based to a large degree on the
very document you
On Sun, Nov 6, 2011 at 3:04 AM, Bojan Smojver wrote:
> Kevin Kofler chello.at> writes:
>
>> I, for
>> one, want my computer to work the way I learned and interiorized a computer
>> works, any "innovative" interface destroys my automatisms and confuses me.
>>
>> I'm using Plasma Desktop with the C
Kevin Kofler chello.at> writes:
> I, for
> one, want my computer to work the way I learned and interiorized a computer
> works, any "innovative" interface destroys my automatisms and confuses me.
>
> I'm using Plasma Desktop with the Classic menu (not the default fancy
> Kickoff), only 1 virt
Mathieu Bridon fedoraproject.org> writes:
> Right now, if I want to start an app, I just hit alt+f2, type the first
> few letters, hit tab and then enter.
>
> No zoom, no search, no expose, no workspaces, no dash.
>
> Just see it that way: you have one powerful interface to do advanced
> stuff
enaut wrote:
> I am one of them and I went directly from the tilling-WM Xmonad to gnome
> 3! So you can't say it's only for absolute noobs :).
The fact that you were using a tiling WM first shows that you are much more
willing to adapt to unconventional designs than most other users. I, for
one,
Dne 5.11.2011 00:39, Ian Malone napsal(a):
> Is there any point in me reporting any bug in Fedora bugzilla ever then?
Of course, there are plenty of bugs caused by our packaging or moments
when one programs stomps on the other one's toes.
See https://bugzilla.redhat.com/page.cgi?id=fields.html#u
On Sat, 2011-11-05 at 13:40 +, Bojan Smojver wrote:
> w googlemail.com>
> writes:
>
> > Yet look at all the happy users of
> default Gnome 3!
> > I am one of them
[... snip ...]
> Please. What would you think of the
> system that when you click on FF starts
> FF, Evo and Gimp? I think you
w googlemail.com>
writes:
> Yet look at all the happy users of
default Gnome 3!
> I am one of them and I went directly
from the tilling-WM Xmonad to gnome
> 3! So you can't say it's only for
absolute noobs :). I installed it and
> it took about a week to get used to it
so that I stopped thin
On 05.11.2011 01:09, Bojan Smojver wrote:
> Ian Malone gmail.com> writes:
>
>> This is essentially giving up. It's frustrating to be stuck on
>> overview mode on a four core machine while gnome-shell is doing
>> /something/ but you don't know what. If it worked fluidly it would be
>> okay.
> For m
Ian Malone gmail.com> writes:
> This is essentially giving up. It's frustrating to be stuck on
> overview mode on a four core machine while gnome-shell is doing
> /something/ but you don't know what. If it worked fluidly it would be
> okay.
For me, it goes further than that. I do not want overvi
On 4 November 2011 17:23, Kevin Kofler wrote:
> Ian Malone wrote:
>> If I filed every bug in the distro in upstream I'd have a dozen
>> different bugzilla accounts by now.
>
> So what? Maintainers are not messengers, they have other work to do than
> forwarding the bugs you're too lazy to file dir
...snip...
Just another datapoint, my personal policy here is:
a) ask the reporter if they could report it upstream, as they will be
able to answer questions and advocate for their bug much better that I
can in some cases.
b) If they say no, and I agree it's a bug/issue that should be
addressed
On Fri, 2011-11-04 at 10:17 -0800, Jef Spaleta wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 4, 2011 at 9:35 AM, Matthew Garrett wrote:
> > Shipping bug-free software is the job of maintainers. It's reasonable to
> > ask a reporter to take an issue upstream if you feel that that'll result
> > in the bug being fixed faste
On Fri, Nov 4, 2011 at 9:35 AM, Matthew Garrett wrote:
> Shipping bug-free software is the job of maintainers. It's reasonable to
> ask a reporter to take an issue upstream if you feel that that'll result
> in the bug being fixed faster, but there's no reason to mandate that and
> it certainly doe
--- Original message ---
> From: seth vidal
>Install xfce. You'll be happy w/that.
Thanks for the tip.
Or maybe I'll just have to find time to (learn how to) hack the shell,
remove overview from it, bring back the taskbar and workspaces to normal
view and call it gnome-non-shell-sh
On Fri, Nov 4, 2011 at 6:35 PM, Matthew Garrett wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 04, 2011 at 06:23:02PM +0100, Kevin Kofler wrote:
>> Ian Malone wrote:
>> > If I filed every bug in the distro in upstream I'd have a dozen
>> > different bugzilla accounts by now.
>>
>> So what? Maintainers are not messengers, t
On Fri, Nov 4, 2011 at 12:23 PM, Kevin Kofler wrote:
> Ian Malone wrote:
>> If I filed every bug in the distro in upstream I'd have a dozen
>> different bugzilla accounts by now.
>
> So what? Maintainers are not messengers, they have other work to do than
> forwarding the bugs you're too lazy to f
On Fri, Nov 04, 2011 at 06:23:02PM +0100, Kevin Kofler wrote:
> Ian Malone wrote:
> > If I filed every bug in the distro in upstream I'd have a dozen
> > different bugzilla accounts by now.
>
> So what? Maintainers are not messengers, they have other work to do than
> forwarding the bugs you're t
seth vidal wrote:
> Bojan,
> Install xfce. You'll be happy w/that.
You should also give KDE Plasma Desktop a try.
Kevin Kofler
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Ian Malone wrote:
> If I filed every bug in the distro in upstream I'd have a dozen
> different bugzilla accounts by now.
So what? Maintainers are not messengers, they have other work to do than
forwarding the bugs you're too lazy to file directly at the right place.
Kevin Kofler
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de
On 4 November 2011 14:36, drago01 wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 4, 2011 at 3:10 PM, Ian Malone wrote:
>>
>> This is essentially giving up. It's frustrating to be stuck on
>> overview mode on a four core machine while gnome-shell is doing
>> /something/ but you don't know what. If it worked fluidly it wo
On Fri, Nov 4, 2011 at 2:53 PM, Kaleb S. KEITHLEY wrote:
> Tell us again where to find that "gnome shell for dummies" doc?
The cheat sheet? http://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/CheatSheet
> I tried to give it a fair trial, but I found it so
> non-intuitive/counter-intuitive that I gave up after an h
Tell us again where to find that "gnome shell for dummies" doc?
I tried to give it a fair trial, but I found it so
non-intuitive/counter-intuitive that I gave up after an hour and
switched to Forced Fallback Mode.
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On Fri, Nov 4, 2011 at 3:10 PM, Ian Malone wrote:
> On 4 November 2011 13:21, seth vidal wrote:
>> On Fri, 4 Nov 2011 10:25:54 + (UTC)
>> Bojan Smojver wrote:
>>
>>> Adam Williamson redhat.com> writes:
>>>
>>> > > Yeah, I got that bit. But I'm sure all you folks are in the know,
>>> > > so
On Fri, 2011-11-04 at 14:10 +, Ian Malone wrote:
> It's frustrating to be stuck on
> overview mode on a four core machine while gnome-shell is doing
> /something/ but you don't know what. If it worked fluidly it would be
> okay. Actually, the responsiveness issue isn't limited just to
> overvie
On Fri, 4 Nov 2011 14:10:57 +
Ian Malone wrote:
> On 4 November 2011 13:21, seth vidal
> wrote:
> > On Fri, 4 Nov 2011 10:25:54 + (UTC)
> > Bojan Smojver wrote:
> >
> >> Adam Williamson redhat.com> writes:
> >>
> >> > > Yeah, I got that bit. But I'm sure all you folks are in the
> >> >
On Fri, Nov 04, 2011 at 14:58:47 +0100,
Ilyes Gouta wrote:
>
> One nice outcome is that we could end up with an optimized reference
> s/w renderer (and kernel/user land stack) for all platforms. Which is
> cool! :)
The other graphics related improvement looking possible for F17 is complete
Ope
On 4 November 2011 13:21, seth vidal wrote:
> On Fri, 4 Nov 2011 10:25:54 + (UTC)
> Bojan Smojver wrote:
>
>> Adam Williamson redhat.com> writes:
>>
>> > > Yeah, I got that bit. But I'm sure all you folks are in the know,
>> > > so I asked.
>> >
>> > No more than anyone - there really is no
On Thu, Nov 03, 2011 at 23:09:12 -0700,
Adam Williamson wrote:
> On Fri, 2011-11-04 at 03:42 +, Bojan Smojver wrote:
>
> But based on what they've said in the past, I expect that once most
> hardware that previously needed the fallback mode is covered, fallback
> mode will die. AIUI, fallba
On Fri, Nov 4, 2011 at 2:40 PM, Matthias Clasen wrote:
> On Thu, 2011-11-03 at 23:09 -0700, Adam Williamson wrote:
>
>>
>> But based on what they've said in the past, I expect that once most
>> hardware that previously needed the fallback mode is covered, fallback
>> mode will die. AIUI, fallback
On Thu, 2011-11-03 at 23:09 -0700, Adam Williamson wrote:
>
> But based on what they've said in the past, I expect that once most
> hardware that previously needed the fallback mode is covered, fallback
> mode will die. AIUI, fallback mode isn't meant to be a GNOME
> 2-by-stealth for Shell refuse
On Fri, 4 Nov 2011 10:25:54 + (UTC)
Bojan Smojver wrote:
> Adam Williamson redhat.com> writes:
>
> > > Yeah, I got that bit. But I'm sure all you folks are in the know,
> > > so I asked.
> >
> > No more than anyone - there really is no cabal ;) All I know is
> > what the GNOME / desktop te
Adam Williamson redhat.com> writes:
> > Yeah, I got that bit. But I'm sure all you folks are in the know, so I
> > asked.
>
> No more than anyone - there really is no cabal ;) All I know is what the
> GNOME / desktop team have said in public, but what they've said seems to
> point in a Shell-y
On Fri, 2011-11-04 at 06:23 +, Bojan Smojver wrote:
> Adam Williamson redhat.com> writes:
>
> > That's really a policy decision for the GNOME / Fedora desktop teams,
> > not for ajax.
>
> Yeah, I got that bit. But I'm sure all you folks are in the know, so I asked.
No more than anyone - the
Adam Williamson redhat.com> writes:
> That's really a policy decision for the GNOME / Fedora desktop teams,
> not for ajax.
Yeah, I got that bit. But I'm sure all you folks are in the know, so I asked.
> But based on what they've said in the past, I expect that once most
> hardware that previou
On Fri, 2011-11-04 at 03:42 +, Bojan Smojver wrote:
> Adam Jackson redhat.com> writes:
>
> > As of tomorrow's rawhide [1], gnome-session will no longer treat
> > llvmpipe as an unsupported driver. This means gnome-shell will run even
> > on hardware without a native 3D driver, including virt
Adam Jackson redhat.com> writes:
> As of tomorrow's rawhide [1], gnome-session will no longer treat
> llvmpipe as an unsupported driver. This means gnome-shell will run even
> on hardware without a native 3D driver, including virt guests.
For all of us gnome-shell sceptics that prefer the fallb
On Thu, 2011-11-03 at 17:57 -0400, Adam Jackson wrote:
> As of tomorrow's rawhide [1], gnome-session will no longer treat
> llvmpipe as an unsupported driver. This means gnome-shell will run even
> on hardware without a native 3D driver, including virt guests.
I said on IRC, but just to reiterate
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