Re: F21 Self Contained Change: Remote Journal Logging

On Fri, 2014-05-02 at 17:51 +0200, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote: > > It's kind of implicit in the Change proposal. When you submit a > > Change, you are indicating that you want this to be something that > > Fedora promotes (both from an engineering standpoint and a marketing one). > I modif

Re: F21 Self Contained Change: Remote Journal Logging

On Tuesday 22 April 2014 06:34:48 Lennart Poettering wrote: > On Wed, 16.04.14 12:46, Bill Nottingham (nott...@splat.cc) wrote: > > Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek (zbys...@in.waw.pl) said: > > > On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 04:20:16PM -0400, Bill Nottingham wrote: > > > > Jaroslav Reznik (jrez...@redhat.co

Re: F21 Self Contained Change: Remote Journal Logging

On 05/05/2014 12:52 PM, Lennart Poettering wrote: Have you requested official assignment? It's not yet listed in . No I have not. What's the benefit of doing so? It avoids collisions, and tools like t

Re: F21 Self Contained Change: Remote Journal Logging

On Mon, 05.05.14 12:49, Florian Weimer (fwei...@redhat.com) wrote: > On 05/05/2014 12:36 PM, Lennart Poettering wrote: > > >>If you feel that HTTPS is the correct protocol then please consider using > >>another port number than 443. > > > >It's port 19531 by default. > > Have you requested offic

Re: F21 Self Contained Change: Remote Journal Logging

On 05/05/2014 12:36 PM, Lennart Poettering wrote: If you feel that HTTPS is the correct protocol then please consider using another port number than 443. It's port 19531 by default. Have you requested official assignment? It's not yet listed in

Re: F21 Self Contained Change: Remote Journal Logging

On Mon, 05.05.14 18:54, Glen Turner (g...@gdt.id.au) wrote: > > > > I am pretty sure HTTP(s) is the right choice > > Hi Lennart, > > The choice of HTTPS does complicate the network infrastructure moving log > records into a "network management" QoS class (ie, making sure that remote > loggin

Re: F21 Self Contained Change: Remote Journal Logging

> I am pretty sure HTTP(s) is the right choice Hi Lennart, The choice of HTTPS does complicate the network infrastructure moving log records into a "network management" QoS class (ie, making sure that remote logging works during a DoS attack caused by malware). If you feel that HTTPS is the c

Re: F21 Self Contained Change: Remote Journal Logging

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 05/02/2014 11:40 AM, Lennart Poettering wrote: > On Fri, 02.05.14 10:53, Stephen Gallagher (sgall...@redhat.com) > wrote: > >>> He also writes "particularly since it appears to have been >>> developed without the input of the journald creators". T

Re: F21 Self Contained Change: Remote Journal Logging

On Fri, May 02, 2014 at 10:53:59AM -0400, Stephen Gallagher wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > On 05/01/2014 10:40 AM, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote: > > On Wed, Apr 30, 2014 at 12:07:25PM -0600, Kevin Fenzi wrote: Hi, > > sorry for the late reply, I'm away on a work

Re: F21 Self Contained Change: Remote Journal Logging

On Fri, 02.05.14 10:53, Stephen Gallagher (sgall...@redhat.com) wrote: > > He also writes "particularly since it appears to have been > > developed without the input of the journald creators". The code in > > question has been reviewed on the systemd mailing list, and > > discussed internally. Als

Re: F21 Self Contained Change: Remote Journal Logging

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 05/01/2014 10:40 AM, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote: > On Wed, Apr 30, 2014 at 12:07:25PM -0600, Kevin Fenzi wrote: Hi, > sorry for the late reply, I'm away on a workshop... > >> So, this change went to fesco last week, but there were some >>

Re: F21 Self Contained Change: Remote Journal Logging

On Thu, 1 May 2014 16:40:48 +0200 Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote: ...snip... > This was proposed as a Change exactly for the purpose of gathering > feedback, even of the fargoing kind like that. There's lot of merit > in the proposed protocol modifications, but it's a fairly big > modificatio

Re: F21 Self Contained Change: Remote Journal Logging

On Wed, Apr 30, 2014 at 12:07:25PM -0600, Kevin Fenzi wrote: Hi, sorry for the late reply, I'm away on a workshop... > So, this change went to fesco last week, but there were some > questions/issues around it. Could change owners respond to: > > 1) sgallagh wasn't sure this was a self contained

Re: F21 Self Contained Change: Remote Journal Logging

So, this change went to fesco last week, but there were some questions/issues around it. Could change owners respond to: 1) sgallagh wasn't sure this was a self contained change: see: https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/1250#comment:19 2) FESCo in general wondered if we advertised this as a c

Re: F21 Self Contained Change: Remote Journal Logging

On Wed, 2014-04-23 at 05:36 +0200, Lennart Poettering wrote: > On Tue, 22.04.14 09:10, Simo Sorce (s...@redhat.com) wrote: > > > > I am pretty sure that a pull model should be the default for everything > > > we do, and push only be done where realtimish behaviour is desired to do > > > live debug

Re: F21 Self Contained Change: Remote Journal Logging

On Tue, 22.04.14 09:10, Simo Sorce (s...@redhat.com) wrote: > > I am pretty sure that a pull model should be the default for everything > > we do, and push only be done where realtimish behaviour is desired to do > > live debugging or suchlike. > > > > I am pretty sure the push model concept is o

Re: F21 Self Contained Change: Remote Journal Logging

On Tue, Apr 22, 2014 at 03:32:26PM -0400, Simo Sorce wrote: > On Tue, 2014-04-22 at 20:58 +0200, Miloslav Trmač wrote: > > 2014-04-22 20:19 GMT+02:00 Simo Sorce : > > > > > On Tue, 2014-04-22 at 19:04 +0200, Miloslav Trmač wrote: > > > > 2014-04-22 15:10 GMT+02:00 Simo Sorce : > > > > > > > > > A

Re: F21 Self Contained Change: Remote Journal Logging

On Tue, Apr 22, 2014 at 06:34:48AM +0200, Lennart Poettering wrote: > On Wed, 16.04.14 12:46, Bill Nottingham (nott...@splat.cc) wrote: > > > Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek (zbys...@in.waw.pl) said: > > > On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 04:20:16PM -0400, Bill Nottingham wrote: > > > > Jaroslav Reznik (jrez.

Re: F21 Self Contained Change: Remote Journal Logging

On Tue, 2014-04-22 at 20:58 +0200, Miloslav Trmač wrote: > 2014-04-22 20:19 GMT+02:00 Simo Sorce : > > > On Tue, 2014-04-22 at 19:04 +0200, Miloslav Trmač wrote: > > > 2014-04-22 15:10 GMT+02:00 Simo Sorce : > > > > > > > A good protocol would allow to send a first small > > > > packet that establ

Re: F21 Self Contained Change: Remote Journal Logging

2014-04-22 20:19 GMT+02:00 Simo Sorce : > On Tue, 2014-04-22 at 19:04 +0200, Miloslav Trmač wrote: > > 2014-04-22 15:10 GMT+02:00 Simo Sorce : > > > > > A good protocol would allow to send a first small > > > packet that establish a connection and a reply that can "push back" on > > > the client w

Re: F21 Self Contained Change: Remote Journal Logging

On Tue, 2014-04-22 at 19:04 +0200, Miloslav Trmač wrote: > 2014-04-22 15:10 GMT+02:00 Simo Sorce : > > > A good protocol would allow to send a first small > > packet that establish a connection and a reply that can "push back" on > > the client w/o requiring huge bandwidth to be spent. > > > > Is

Re: F21 Self Contained Change: Remote Journal Logging

2014-04-22 15:10 GMT+02:00 Simo Sorce : > A good protocol would allow to send a first small > packet that establish a connection and a reply that can "push back" on > the client w/o requiring huge bandwidth to be spent. > Isn't that an inherent capability of TCP? If it is not automatic, maybe it

Re: F21 Self Contained Change: Remote Journal Logging

On Tue, Apr 22, 2014 at 06:34:48AM +0200, Lennart Poettering wrote: > Pull is the only model that scales, since the centralized log infrastructure > can > schedule when it pulls from where and thus do this according to > available resources. THe push model is prone to logging bursts > overwhelming

Re: F21 Self Contained Change: Remote Journal Logging

On Tue, 2014-04-22 at 06:34 +0200, Lennart Poettering wrote: > On Wed, 16.04.14 12:46, Bill Nottingham (nott...@splat.cc) wrote: > > > Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek (zbys...@in.waw.pl) said: > > > On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 04:20:16PM -0400, Bill Nottingham wrote: > > > > Jaroslav Reznik (jrez...@redh

Re: F21 Self Contained Change: Remote Journal Logging

On 04/16/2014 06:46 PM, Bill Nottingham wrote: I understand the pull vs push distinction ... I'm just not clear why pull would ever be a model you'd want to use. (vs something like a local cockpit agent.) Isn't remote Windows event logging pull-only (unless you somehow gate it to syslog)? So

Re: F21 Self Contained Change: Remote Journal Logging

On Wed, 16.04.14 12:46, Bill Nottingham (nott...@splat.cc) wrote: > Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek (zbys...@in.waw.pl) said: > > On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 04:20:16PM -0400, Bill Nottingham wrote: > > > Jaroslav Reznik (jrez...@redhat.com) said: > > > > = Proposed Self Contained Change: Remote Journal

Re: F21 Self Contained Change: Remote Journal Logging

2014-04-17 23:34 GMT+02:00 Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek : > On Thu, Apr 17, 2014 at 10:17:28PM +0200, Miloslav Trmač wrote: > > 2014-04-16 19:08 GMT+02:00 Chris Adams : > > > > > It would be good if systemd could > > > use or extend an existing logging protocol, rather than invent yet > > > another

Re: F21 Self Contained Change: Remote Journal Logging

On Thu, Apr 17, 2014 at 10:12:24PM +0200, Miloslav Trmač wrote: > Hello, > 2014-04-16 15:04 GMT+02:00 Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek : > > > I'll reconsider using SASL instead. I have the HTTPS-transport version > > almost ready, so for now I'll go with that, to have a working > > solution. There's s

Re: F21 Self Contained Change: Remote Journal Logging

On Thu, Apr 17, 2014 at 10:17:28PM +0200, Miloslav Trmač wrote: > 2014-04-16 19:08 GMT+02:00 Chris Adams : > > > It would be good if systemd could > > use or extend an existing logging protocol, rather than invent yet > > another method. > > > > Yes. Going by the feature page and from what I can

Re: F21 Self Contained Change: Remote Journal Logging

2014-04-16 19:08 GMT+02:00 Chris Adams : > It would be good if systemd could > use or extend an existing logging protocol, rather than invent yet > another method. > Yes. Going by the feature page and from what I can see from journal-remote.c, because Transfer-Encoding: chunked does not require

Re: F21 Self Contained Change: Remote Journal Logging

Hello, 2014-04-16 15:04 GMT+02:00 Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek : > I'll reconsider using SASL instead. I have the HTTPS-transport version > almost ready, so for now I'll go with that, to have a working > solution. There's still some other questions, mostly related to how > the data should be stored

Re: F21 Self Contained Change: Remote Journal Logging

On Thu, Apr 17, 2014 at 07:33:16AM -0400, Martin Langhoff wrote: > On Wed, Apr 16, 2014 at 5:08 PM, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek > wrote: > >> So I'll ask you about this other aspect -- what about stateless > >> clients with very limited or no local storage? > > Not supported by this, unfortunately

Re: F21 Self Contained Change: Remote Journal Logging

On Wed, Apr 16, 2014 at 5:08 PM, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote: >> So I'll ask you about this other aspect -- what about stateless >> clients with very limited or no local storage? > Not supported by this, unfortunately. There needs to be at least > temporary storage in tmpfs for this scheme t

Re: F21 Self Contained Change: Remote Journal Logging

On Wed, Apr 16, 2014 at 04:57:25PM -0400, Martin Langhoff wrote: > On Wed, Apr 16, 2014 at 4:40 PM, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek > wrote: > > the upload client is like any other journal client -- it is fully > > asynchronous > > wrt. to journald writing log entries. (It's something like > > 'journ

Re: F21 Self Contained Change: Remote Journal Logging

On Wed, Apr 16, 2014 at 12:48:21PM -0400, Simo Sorce wrote: > On Wed, 2014-04-16 at 15:04 +0200, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote: > > On Tue, Apr 15, 2014 at 03:30:57PM -0400, Simo Sorce wrote: > > > > > I'd imagine that in a setup with a few servers one would create > > > > the certificates on

Re: F21 Self Contained Change: Remote Journal Logging

On Wed, Apr 16, 2014 at 4:40 PM, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote: > the upload client is like any other journal client -- it is fully asynchronous > wrt. to journald writing log entries. (It's something like > 'journalctl -o export|curl -X POST https://some.where/upload'.) Fantastic, so there i

Re: F21 Self Contained Change: Remote Journal Logging

On Wed, Apr 16, 2014 at 12:50:53PM -0400, Martin Langhoff wrote: > On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 9:07 AM, Jaroslav Reznik wrote: > > The communication between the two daemons is done over standard HTTPS, > I hear you holler "OMG you have to build full redundancy in your > logging backend"; and... I have

Re: F21 Self Contained Change: Remote Journal Logging

On Wed, Apr 16, 2014 at 12:46:15PM -0400, Bill Nottingham wrote: > Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek (zbys...@in.waw.pl) said: > > On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 04:20:16PM -0400, Bill Nottingham wrote: > > > Jaroslav Reznik (jrez...@redhat.com) said: > > > > = Proposed Self Contained Change: Remote Journal L

Re: F21 Self Contained Change: Remote Journal Logging

Once upon a time, Martin Langhoff said: > On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 9:07 AM, Jaroslav Reznik wrote: > > The communication between the two daemons is done over standard HTTPS, > > Interesting. One quirk of current syslog-style remote logging over UDP > is that it is fairly tolerant to dataloss. Ye

Re: F21 Self Contained Change: Remote Journal Logging

On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 9:07 AM, Jaroslav Reznik wrote: > The communication between the two daemons is done over standard HTTPS, Interesting. One quirk of current syslog-style remote logging over UDP is that it is fairly tolerant to dataloss. With quite a bit of experience in the field... I have

Re: F21 Self Contained Change: Remote Journal Logging

On Wed, 2014-04-16 at 15:04 +0200, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote: > On Tue, Apr 15, 2014 at 03:30:57PM -0400, Simo Sorce wrote: > > > I'd imagine that in a setup with a few servers one would create > > > the certificates on the receiver machine, copy&pasting some instructions > > > from Fedor

Re: F21 Self Contained Change: Remote Journal Logging

Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek (zbys...@in.waw.pl) said: > On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 04:20:16PM -0400, Bill Nottingham wrote: > > Jaroslav Reznik (jrez...@redhat.com) said: > > > = Proposed Self Contained Change: Remote Journal Logging = > > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Remote_Journal_Log

Re: F21 Self Contained Change: Remote Journal Logging

On Wed, Apr 16, 2014 at 11:39:07AM -0400, Frank Ch. Eigler wrote: > Zbigniew =?utf-8?Q?J=C4=99drzejewski-Szmek?= writes: > > > [...] Using HTTP makes it possible to use e.g. use curl to upload > > some logs from the commandline. It should also be fairly easy for > > people to write e.g. Python c

Re: F21 Self Contained Change: Remote Journal Logging

Zbigniew =?utf-8?Q?J=C4=99drzejewski-Szmek?= writes: > [...] Using HTTP makes it possible to use e.g. use curl to upload > some logs from the commandline. It should also be fairly easy for > people to write e.g. Python code to upload logs. [...] Are you envisioning these journal files being cre

Re: F21 Self Contained Change: Remote Journal Logging

On Tue, Apr 15, 2014 at 03:30:57PM -0400, Simo Sorce wrote: > On Tue, 2014-04-15 at 20:28 +0200, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote: > > On Tue, Apr 15, 2014 at 11:00:45AM -0400, Simo Sorce wrote: > > > On Mon, 2014-04-14 at 15:07 +0200, Jaroslav Reznik wrote: > > > > = Proposed Self Contained Chang

Re: F21 Self Contained Change: Remote Journal Logging

On Tue, 2014-04-15 at 20:28 +0200, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote: > On Tue, Apr 15, 2014 at 11:00:45AM -0400, Simo Sorce wrote: > > On Mon, 2014-04-14 at 15:07 +0200, Jaroslav Reznik wrote: > > > = Proposed Self Contained Change: Remote Journal Logging = > > > > > The communication between th

Re: F21 Self Contained Change: Remote Journal Logging

On Tue, Apr 15, 2014 at 11:00:45AM -0400, Simo Sorce wrote: > On Mon, 2014-04-14 at 15:07 +0200, Jaroslav Reznik wrote: > > = Proposed Self Contained Change: Remote Journal Logging = > > > The communication between the two daemons is done over standard HTTPS, > > following rather simple rules, s

Re: F21 Self Contained Change: Remote Journal Logging

On Tue, Apr 15, 2014 at 09:25:39AM -0600, Kevin Fenzi wrote: > To be clear here, all this is implemented in the two daemons right? > > When you say it uses https, thats natively done in the daemons, they > don't need apache or some other https implementor in the way? Yes, it's implemented in two d

Re: F21 Self Contained Change: Remote Journal Logging

To be clear here, all this is implemented in the two daemons right? When you say it uses https, thats natively done in the daemons, they don't need apache or some other https implementor in the way? Which ssl stack does this use? nss? openssl? gnutls? something else? kevin signature.asc Descr

Re: F21 Self Contained Change: Remote Journal Logging

On Mon, 2014-04-14 at 15:07 +0200, Jaroslav Reznik wrote: > = Proposed Self Contained Change: Remote Journal Logging = > The communication between the two daemons is done over standard HTTPS, > following rather simple rules, so it is possible to create alternate > implementations without much w

Re: F21 Self Contained Change: Remote Journal Logging

On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 04:20:16PM -0400, Bill Nottingham wrote: > Jaroslav Reznik (jrez...@redhat.com) said: > > = Proposed Self Contained Change: Remote Journal Logging = > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Remote_Journal_Logging > > > > Change owner(s): Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek > >

Re: F21 Self Contained Change: Remote Journal Logging

Jaroslav Reznik (jrez...@redhat.com) said: > = Proposed Self Contained Change: Remote Journal Logging = > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Remote_Journal_Logging > > Change owner(s): Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek > > Systemd journal can be configured to forward events to a remote server.

Re: F21 Self Contained Change: Remote Journal Logging

On Mon, 14 Apr 2014, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote: On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 05:19:17PM +0300, Alexander Bokovoy wrote: How certificates are managed for sender and receiver parts? By some external means... This could be automated, e.g. using certmaster, but I don't want to tie to a specific

Re: F21 Self Contained Change: Remote Journal Logging

On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 05:19:17PM +0300, Alexander Bokovoy wrote: > How certificates are managed for sender and receiver parts? By some external means... This could be automated, e.g. using certmaster, but I don't want to tie to a specific certificate distribution implementation. > Who generates

Re: F21 Self Contained Change: Remote Journal Logging

On Mon, 14 Apr 2014, Jaroslav Reznik wrote: = Proposed Self Contained Change: Remote Journal Logging = https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Remote_Journal_Logging Change owner(s): Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek Systemd journal can be configured to forward events to a remote server. Entries are

F21 Self Contained Change: Remote Journal Logging

= Proposed Self Contained Change: Remote Journal Logging = https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Remote_Journal_Logging Change owner(s): Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek Systemd journal can be configured to forward events to a remote server. Entries are forwarded including full metadata, and are s