On 11/16/2012 06:35 PM, Matthew Miller wrote:
On Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 09:06:03PM -0500, Scott Schmit wrote:> On Fri, Nov 16,
2012 at 09:26:30AM -0800, Jesse Keating wrote:
Tools outside of anaconda don't have to force @core, which opens
those tools up to far more creative payloads.
So where's
On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 11:29:51AM -0500, Bill Nottingham wrote:
> > Many of the outside-of-anaconda tools use kickstart too; they just don't
> > necessarily have the same rules for pulling in core automatically.
> > I don't know if that's necessarily a great situation, since it means the
> > same
Matthew Miller (mat...@fedoraproject.org) said:
> > So where's that put kickstart?
> > Or is the assumption that anyone who wants a more-minimal target won't
> > be going that route?
>
> Many of the outside-of-anaconda tools use kickstart too; they just don't
> necessarily have the same rules for
On Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 09:06:03PM -0500, Scott Schmit wrote:> On Fri, Nov 16,
2012 at 09:26:30AM -0800, Jesse Keating wrote:
> > Tools outside of anaconda don't have to force @core, which opens
> > those tools up to far more creative payloads.
> So where's that put kickstart?
> Or is the assumpti
On Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 09:26:30AM -0800, Jesse Keating wrote:
> Tools outside of anaconda don't have to force @core, which opens
> those tools up to far more creative payloads.
So where's that put kickstart?
Or is the assumption that anyone who wants a more-minimal target won't
be going that rou
On Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 09:26:30AM -0800, Jesse Keating wrote:
> >>>hypervisor images where post-install files are removed from the
> >>>system, is more of a programmer and therefore less reliant on us
> >>>choosing a good default for the @core/@standard comps groups.
> >I don't think "more of a pr
On Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 02:43:24PM +0100, Miloslav Trmač wrote:
> > That would be weird. But fortunately, it's @core, not @minimal. So we
> > could easily have @minimal, @core, and @standard, each with different
> > targets.
> Hm, the scope expansion happened rather quickly.
>
> Can we, for now, r
On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 4:32 PM, Matthew Miller
wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 01:13:09AM +0100, Lennart Poettering wrote:
>> Well, it would be weird that the "minimal" installation is actually not
>> "minimal" at all, but the "container" installation is.
>
> That would be weird. But fortunately
On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 10:12 PM, Bill Nottingham wrote:
> Matthew Miller (mat...@fedoraproject.org) said:
>> > Well, it would be weird that the "minimal" installation is actually not
>> > "minimal" at all, but the "container" installation is.
>>
>> That would be weird. But fortunately, it's @core
Matthew Miller (mat...@fedoraproject.org) said:
> > Well, it would be weird that the "minimal" installation is actually not
> > "minimal" at all, but the "container" installation is.
>
> That would be weird. But fortunately, it's @core, not @minimal. So we could
> easily have @minimal, @core, and
Matthew Miller (mat...@fedoraproject.org) said:
> On Wed, Nov 14, 2012 at 10:03:36PM -0800, Adam Williamson wrote:
> > > Is there any reason those two can't be split up? Maybe @really-hard-core
> > > for the first, and @core for the second. ;-)
> > That's basically what Kevin proposed several mail
On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 11:31:52AM -0500, Przemek Klosowski wrote:
> >Well, this is part of what I mean by "Fedora is not a tiny-linux
> >distribution." It might be interesting to have a busybox-based spin, but I
> >think that's a different thing.
> Since busybox package already exists, I think it
Once upon a time, Przemek Klosowski said:
> Since busybox package already exists, I think it makes sense to use
> it--not because we're doing some tiny-linux, but because why not, it's
> just 651 kB. Most packages we discussed here (openssh-clients, sendmail)
> are individually much larger than
On 11/15/2012 11:18 AM, Matthew Miller wrote:
On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 10:59:26AM -0500, Przemek Klosowski wrote:
I don't know if that is what you're after, because busybox
duplicates the functionality of individual packages (and may have
some limitations in how well it duplicates, I'm sure). All
On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 10:59:26AM -0500, Przemek Klosowski wrote:
> I don't know if that is what you're after, because busybox
> duplicates the functionality of individual packages (and may have
> some limitations in how well it duplicates, I'm sure). All the same,
> I would definitely consider in
On 11/12/2012 11:28 AM, Matthew Miller wrote:
I see three basic options for the target:
A) kernel + init system and we're done
B) "boot to yum (with network)": a text-mode bootstrap environment on which
other things can be added by hand (or by kickstart)
C) a traditional Unix command
On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 01:13:09AM +0100, Lennart Poettering wrote:
> Well, it would be weird that the "minimal" installation is actually not
> "minimal" at all, but the "container" installation is.
That would be weird. But fortunately, it's @core, not @minimal. So we could
easily have @minimal, @
On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 01:19:59AM +0100, Lennart Poettering wrote:
> For containers a yum group for usage with --installroot= is the only
> thing that matters.
For this, is a group even necessary or useful?
--
Matthew Miller ☁☁☁ Fedora Cloud Architect ☁☁☁
--
devel mailing list
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On Wed, Nov 14, 2012 at 10:03:36PM -0800, Adam Williamson wrote:
> > Is there any reason those two can't be split up? Maybe @really-hard-core
> > for the first, and @core for the second. ;-)
> That's basically what Kevin proposed several mails back, and I agree it
> seems like we have two broadly d
> From: Stephen John Smoogen
>
> On 14 November 2012 17:19, Lennart Poettering
wrote:
> >
> > Oh, I wasn't aware that this is solely about anaconda-based installs,
> > sorry.
>
> Well actually I think the correct question here is.. is this about
> anaconda based installs which was my guess whe
> From: Lennart Poettering
>
> I think a good way to approach this is by looking for the interesting
> usecases for a minimal installation:
>
> A) Containers
> B) VMs
> C) Bare-Metal Servers
> D) Paranoid people (not relevant)
> E) Embedded (out of focus for Fedora)
I don't believe embedded is
On Wed, 2012-11-14 at 22:23 -0500, Scott Schmit wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 14, 2012 at 09:36:17AM -0500, Matthew Miller wrote:
> > Based on the conversation so far, I think the target is:
> >
> > - mandatory install of everything up to yum install from the network
> > - default install of a small se
On Wed, 2012-11-14 at 18:49 -0800, M. Edward (Ed) Borasky wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 14, 2012 at 6:02 PM, Adam Williamson wrote:
> > On Wed, 2012-11-14 at 16:27 -0800, M. Edward (Ed) Borasky wrote:
> >> On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 9:59 PM, Ian Pilcher wrote:
> >> > On 11/13/2012 06:55 PM, Adam Williamson w
On Wed, Nov 14, 2012 at 09:36:17AM -0500, Matthew Miller wrote:
> Based on the conversation so far, I think the target is:
>
> - mandatory install of everything up to yum install from the network
> - default install of a small set of packages necessary for a consistent
> Fedora experience
On Wed, Nov 14, 2012 at 6:02 PM, Adam Williamson wrote:
> On Wed, 2012-11-14 at 16:27 -0800, M. Edward (Ed) Borasky wrote:
>> On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 9:59 PM, Ian Pilcher wrote:
>> > On 11/13/2012 06:55 PM, Adam Williamson wrote:
>> >> It might be worth re-evaluating whether that's realistic any
On 15.11.2012 02:19, Lennart Poettering wrote:
For containers a yum group for usage with --installroot= is the only
thing that matters.
FWIW, For me Anaconda is overkill for the KVM guest images too. I am
used to do that with small xquery script (easy for the libvirt domain
definition) cont
On Wed, 2012-11-14 at 16:27 -0800, M. Edward (Ed) Borasky wrote:
> On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 9:59 PM, Ian Pilcher wrote:
> > On 11/13/2012 06:55 PM, Adam Williamson wrote:
> >> It might be worth re-evaluating whether that's realistic any more,
> >> though, and whether we're _really_ committed to fin
On Wed, Nov 14, 2012 at 4:03 PM, Lennart Poettering
wrote:
> On Thu, 15.11.12 00:56, Lennart Poettering (mzerq...@0pointer.de) wrote:
>
>> I think a good way to approach this is by looking for the interesting
>> usecases for a minimal installation:
>>
>> A) Containers
>> B) VMs
>> C) Bare-Metal Se
Time synchronization inside virtual machines is
a. Hypervisor-dependent. See the docs for VirtualBox, VMware, Xen and
kvm and read the fine print. I don't even know if there *is*
documentation for EC2.
b. Poorly documented and difficult to test. If you don't *need*
anything better than NTP / one s
On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 9:59 PM, Ian Pilcher wrote:
> On 11/13/2012 06:55 PM, Adam Williamson wrote:
>> It might be worth re-evaluating whether that's realistic any more,
>> though, and whether we're _really_ committed to finally replacing
>> network with NM in some kind of reasonable timeframe.
>
On 14 November 2012 17:19, Lennart Poettering wrote:
> On Wed, 14.11.12 17:15, Stephen John Smoogen (smo...@gmail.com) wrote:
>
>> >> How about a separate group for containers, since the packages and use
>> >> case are very different than 'core' provides?
>> >>
>> >> @core-container ? or @containe
On Wed, 14.11.12 17:15, Stephen John Smoogen (smo...@gmail.com) wrote:
> >> How about a separate group for containers, since the packages and use
> >> case are very different than 'core' provides?
> >>
> >> @core-container ? or @container ?
> >
> > Well, it would be weird that the "minimal" instal
On 14 November 2012 17:13, Lennart Poettering wrote:
> On Wed, 14.11.12 17:05, Kevin Fenzi (ke...@scrye.com) wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 15 Nov 2012 01:03:03 +0100
>> Lennart Poettering wrote:
>>
>> ...snip...
>>
>> > >
>> > > I think it would make sense to focus on the intersection of
>> > > installatio
On Wed, 14.11.12 17:05, Kevin Fenzi (ke...@scrye.com) wrote:
> On Thu, 15 Nov 2012 01:03:03 +0100
> Lennart Poettering wrote:
>
> ...snip...
>
> > >
> > > I think it would make sense to focus on the intersection of
> > > installation set for these usecases. And hence:
> > >
> > > No SSH. No B
On Wed, 14.11.12 10:34, john.flor...@dart.biz (john.flor...@dart.biz) wrote:
> > From: Chris Adams
> >
> > Well, as soon as you have cron, you'll have things wanting to send
> > email, and even sendmail mail to "root" on the local system requires
> > some type of MTA in most cases.
>
> >From my
On Wed, 14.11.12 08:18, Chris Adams (cmad...@hiwaay.net) wrote:
> Once upon a time, Thomas Bendler said:
> > Does an MTA really make sense in the core definition? The configuration of
> > MTA is nowadays much more complex compared to the "old" days. Normaly you
> > need a FQDN, you need a SMTP re
On Thu, 15 Nov 2012 01:03:03 +0100
Lennart Poettering wrote:
...snip...
> >
> > I think it would make sense to focus on the intersection of
> > installation set for these usecases. And hence:
> >
> > No SSH. No Boot loader. And definitely not Sendmail.
>
> Also, no kernel and no kmod for A,
On Thu, 15.11.12 00:56, Lennart Poettering (mzerq...@0pointer.de) wrote:
> I think a good way to approach this is by looking for the interesting
> usecases for a minimal installation:
>
> A) Containers
> B) VMs
> C) Bare-Metal Servers
> D) Paranoid people (not relevant)
> E) Embedded (out of focu
On Mon, 12.11.12 11:28, Matthew Miller (mat...@fedoraproject.org) wrote:
> Okay, cool -- there's a lot of enthusiasm for a SIG for the core package
> set.
>
> So, first up on the SIG goals: clarifying our target.
>
> It's been suggested before that there's so many possibilities that this is
> us
On Tuesday, November 13, 2012 04:55:50 PM Adam Williamson wrote:
> > So far everything works without, and I think we should endevor to keep
> > that true.
>
> I think this is similar to the firewalld issue in that the basic theory
> here is that, look, NetworkManager is the way, the truth and the
2012/11/14 Chris Adams
> [...]
> Ehh, for local "root" mails from failing cron jobs, "less
> /var/mail/root" works just fine. :)
>
Sending mails with telnet also works fine but I don't think that this is
the question ;). We work on the definition of core and what will be inside.
If we say, mail
> From: Chris Adams
>
> Well, as soon as you have cron, you'll have things wanting to send
> email, and even sendmail mail to "root" on the local system requires
> some type of MTA in most cases.
>From my experience, an MTA is still not required. Any stdout/err from the
cron jobs just go to th
> From: Stephen John Smoogen
> > On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 08:00:23PM -0500, Ben Cotton wrote:
> > On EC2 (as in many virt environments) the hardware clock source is
actually
> > synced and running an ntpd service on the client is redundant.
> >
>
>
> They say it is but it is not always. I
Once upon a time, Thomas Bendler said:
> True, but then you need a mail client as well otherwise you won't see the
> local mails. So the question is, what is the definition of core? What
> should be the goal of core?
Ehh, for local "root" mails from failing cron jobs, "less
/var/mail/root" works
2012/11/14 Matthew Miller
> default install of a small set of packages necessary for a consistent
> Fedora experience including minimal admin tools
>
I was just surprised that there was no discussion about your proposal,
instead, there was immediately a discussion about the packages that should
On Wed, Nov 14, 2012 at 03:24:04PM +0100, Thomas Bendler wrote:
> Ok, but what is the intent? The first mail was a questioning what should be
> the scope of core and I didn't see a discussion answering this question. I
That's *this* discussion. :)
> think we should first define the mission statem
2012/11/14 Chris Adams
> [...]
>
Well, as soon as you have cron, you'll have things wanting to send
> email, and even sendmail mail to "root" on the local system requires
> some type of MTA in most cases.
>
True, but then you need a mail client as well otherwise you won't see the
local mails. So
2012/11/14 Matthew Miller
> [...]
> I'd like to go back a step here to the question starting the thread.
> There's
> plenty of time to go over each package, but the basic question is intent.
> Clearly man pages aren't necessary for a super-minimal JEOS image, but
> that's not *historically* been
Once upon a time, Thomas Bendler said:
> Does an MTA really make sense in the core definition? The configuration of
> MTA is nowadays much more complex compared to the "old" days. Normaly you
> need a FQDN, you need a SMTP relay and lot other stuff more. So you will
> only get the mails off the sy
On Wed, Nov 14, 2012 at 01:27:21PM +0100, Thomas Bendler wrote:
> - Minimal tools for admins
> > less
> > man-db
> > procps-ng
> > vim-minimal
> Is man-db really necessary? In the man pages included in the man-db package
> are not really helpful for a core system ... from my
On Wed, Nov 14, 2012 at 12:37:38AM -0500, Seth Vidal wrote:
> >On EC2 (as in many virt environments) the hardware clock source is actually
> >synced and running an ntpd service on the client is redundant.
>
> I would say this is not accurate.
>
> My experience with the instances running under xen
2012/11/13 Bill Nottingham
> [...]
>
- Minimal tools for admins
> less
> man-db
> procps-ng
> vim-minimal
>
Is man-db really necessary? In the man pages included in the man-db package
are not really helpful for a core system ... from my point of view.
> [...]
> - Get ma
On 11/13/2012 06:55 PM, Adam Williamson wrote:
> It might be worth re-evaluating whether that's realistic any more,
> though, and whether we're _really_ committed to finally replacing
> network with NM in some kind of reasonable timeframe.
To this point, NetworkManager has failed to gain basic bri
On Tue, 13 Nov 2012, Matthew Miller wrote:
On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 08:00:23PM -0500, Ben Cotton wrote:
On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 4:41 PM, Bill Nottingham wrote:
[list of packages]
ntpdate
chrony
On EC2 (as in many virt environments) the hardware clock source is actually
synced and running
I can tell you what openSUSE / SUSE Studio does. The smallest
appliance you can build is JEOS (Just Enough Operating System). That
has kernel, grub, openssh, bash, small vim and zypper, which is the
openSUSE equivalent of yum. It does not have man pages; they're
stripped out.
Next up is something
Once upon a time, Ben Cotton said:
> ntpdate
> chrony
Daemons should only be added to @core if they are critical for basic
system function; NTP is recommended for most setups, but certainly not
critical.
It would be nice to have ntpdate and/or rdate though, so that the system
clock can be initia
Once upon a time, Adam Williamson said:
> It might be worth re-evaluating whether that's realistic any more,
> though, and whether we're _really_ committed to finally replacing
> network with NM in some kind of reasonable timeframe.
Until NM supports 802.1q, bridging, and tunnels, to name a few t
On 13 November 2012 18:38, Matthew Miller wrote:
> On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 08:00:23PM -0500, Ben Cotton wrote:
>> On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 4:41 PM, Bill Nottingham wrote:
>> > [list of packages]
>> ntpdate
>> chrony
>
> On EC2 (as in many virt environments) the hardware clock source is actually
>
On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 08:55:46PM -0500, Ben Cotton wrote:
> > On EC2 (as in many virt environments) the hardware clock source is
> > actually synced and running an ntpd service on the client is redundant.
> (Neat, I learned something today!) Sure, but there are a lot of Fedora
> instances not run
On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 8:38 PM, Matthew Miller
wrote:
> On EC2 (as in many virt environments) the hardware clock source is actually
> synced and running an ntpd service on the client is redundant.
>
(Neat, I learned something today!) Sure, but there are a lot of Fedora
instances not running on s
On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 08:00:23PM -0500, Ben Cotton wrote:
> On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 4:41 PM, Bill Nottingham wrote:
> > [list of packages]
> ntpdate
> chrony
On EC2 (as in many virt environments) the hardware clock source is actually
synced and running an ntpd service on the client is redundant
On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 4:41 PM, Bill Nottingham wrote:
> [list of packages]
ntpdate
chrony
--
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Fedora Docs Leader
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On Tue, 2012-11-13 at 17:15 -0500, Matthew Miller wrote:
> > Is NM really required for "basic" networking? If so, you probably don't
> > need to specify some of the rest (such as dhclient) manually. NM brings
> > a bunch of deps I believe.
>
> So far everything works without, and I think we sho
On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 03:40:26PM -0700, Stephen John Smoogen wrote:
> >> > > from /etc/skel with annoying aliases.
> >> > I think it should be at least "default" instead of mandatory.
> >> Consistency of environment. Root's environment should always be
> >> the same no matter how you install.
> >
On 13 November 2012 15:22, Matthew Miller wrote:
> On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 05:20:43PM -0500, Bill Nottingham wrote:
>> > On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 04:07:16PM -0600, Chris Adams wrote:
>> > > What makes rootfiles essential? That's just overriding the defaults
>> > > from /etc/skel with annoying alia
On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 05:20:43PM -0500, Bill Nottingham wrote:
> > On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 04:07:16PM -0600, Chris Adams wrote:
> > > What makes rootfiles essential? That's just overriding the defaults
> > > from /etc/skel with annoying aliases.
> > I think it should be at least "default" instea
Matthew Miller (mat...@fedoraproject.org) said:
> On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 04:07:16PM -0600, Chris Adams wrote:
> > What makes rootfiles essential? That's just overriding the defaults
> > from /etc/skel with annoying aliases.
>
> I think it should be at least "default" instead of mandatory.
Cons
On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 04:07:16PM -0600, Chris Adams wrote:
> What makes rootfiles essential? That's just overriding the defaults
> from /etc/skel with annoying aliases.
I think it should be at least "default" instead of mandatory.
> Is NM really required for "basic" networking? If so, you pr
Once upon a time, Bill Nottingham said:
> So, what it is bascially designed for now is:
>
> - Boot to a normal prompt
> basesystem
> bash
> coreutils
> filesystem
> glibc
> initscripts
> plymouth (was for boot logs & encrypted partitions; could be dropped
On Tuesday, November 13, 2012 04:41:12 PM Bill Nottingham wrote:
> Matthew Miller (mat...@fedoraproject.org) said:
> > On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 08:07:39PM -0800, Jesse Keating wrote:
> > > Yeah, that's a thing that probably could be done. Bug again I'd
> > > like some input from people who have mad
Matthew Miller (mat...@fedoraproject.org) said:
> On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 08:07:39PM -0800, Jesse Keating wrote:
> > Yeah, that's a thing that probably could be done. Bug again I'd
> > like some input from people who have made the switch to these
> > packages being mandatory.
>
> Well, I think i
Did a quick scan and removed internals
random : ['import random : (cli.py)']
subprocess : ['from subprocess import Popen, PIPE :
(yum/packages.py)']
gettext : ['import gettext : (output.py)']
fnmatch : ['import fnmatch : (completion-helper.py)']
te
On Mon, 2012-11-12 at 11:28 -0500, Matthew Miller wrote:
> Okay, cool -- there's a lot of enthusiasm for a SIG for the core package
> set.
>
> So, first up on the SIG goals: clarifying our target.
>
> It's been suggested before that there's so many possibilities that this is
> useless, but the po
2012/11/13 Christopher Meng
> I don't know Fedora minimal looks like...FOR SERVER USE the Minimal
> includes:
>
> [...]
>
BUT FOR DESKTOP USE,I think it should also have a desktop based on server
> version...That's what is troubling me...If it [...]
This is something we shouldn't mix. When we a
2012/11/12 Matthew Miller
> [...]
> Yeah: if we get to the point where every real install has to add the same
> subset of packages to core, I don't think we've succeeded in doing anything
> except make more work for the whole world.
> A cron daemon and (at least basic) MTA fall in the same area,
On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 08:07:39PM -0800, Jesse Keating wrote:
> Yeah, that's a thing that probably could be done. Bug again I'd
> like some input from people who have made the switch to these
> packages being mandatory.
Well, I think it's just that the policy for a long time that since core
isn'
On 11/12/2012 05:25 PM, Matthew Miller wrote:
On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 12:27:34PM -0800, Jesse Keating wrote:
But there was a non-UI way. Does that no longer work?
The non-UI way was kickstart. But you can't deselect (-) mandatory
packages in a group. @core is primarily made up of mandatory
pa
I don't know Fedora minimal looks like...FOR SERVER USE the Minimal
includes:
Network support;
BASH;
Maybe some development tools also.
Nothing else.
BUT FOR DESKTOP USE,I think it should also have a desktop based on server
version...That's what is troubling me...If it has a built-in desktop,I
do
On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 10:13:54AM +0800, Christopher Meng wrote:
> I think a minimal image is just like centos minimal.
Care to share what that means?
--
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I think a minimal image is just like centos minimal.
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On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 12:27:34PM -0800, Jesse Keating wrote:
> >But there was a non-UI way. Does that no longer work?
> The non-UI way was kickstart. But you can't deselect (-) mandatory
> packages in a group. @core is primarily made up of mandatory
> packages.
Huh. I could swear I've done tha
On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 01:42:02PM -0500, Matthew Miller wrote:
> On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 07:10:21PM +0100, Petr Lautrbach wrote:
> > A thin client would probably not want to install openssh-server.
>
> Bringing us back around to the point of this thread. :)
>
> Thin client is one use case.
>
>
On Mon, 12 Nov 2012, Benny Amorsen wrote:
Seth Vidal writes:
fantastic. show me a deployment somewhere of a 'thin client' that
doesn't use their own custom kickstart/pxe for instantiating the
clients and that will be relevant to this discussion.
Is kickstart installs generally out of sco
Seth Vidal writes:
> fantastic. show me a deployment somewhere of a 'thin client' that
> doesn't use their own custom kickstart/pxe for instantiating the
> clients and that will be relevant to this discussion.
Is kickstart installs generally out of scope for minimal package set?
The problem used
On Mon, 12 Nov 2012, Jesse Keating wrote:
On 11/12/2012 12:17 PM, Matthew Miller wrote:
On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 12:08:38PM -0800, Jesse Keating wrote:
To be fair if we're talking about redefining what goes into @core
(which cannot be deselected, and mandatory items cannot be
deselected) the
On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 12:21:43PM -0800, Jesse Keating wrote:
> >>To be fair if we're talking about redefining what goes into @core
> >>(which cannot be deselected, and mandatory items cannot be
> >>deselected) then even those doing kickstart/pxe are relevant to the
> >>discussion.
> >Is it now th
On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 12:08:38PM -0800, Jesse Keating wrote:
> To be fair if we're talking about redefining what goes into @core
> (which cannot be deselected, and mandatory items cannot be
> deselected) then even those doing kickstart/pxe are relevant to the
> discussion.
Is it now the case tha
On Mon, 12 Nov 2012, Petr Lautrbach wrote:
which was, in fact, what I said.
scp is something people expect to be able to use on servers to send files
over. that it is not there makes the server install feel a touch awkward.
that's all.
A thin client would probably not want to install op
On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 07:10:21PM +0100, Petr Lautrbach wrote:
> A thin client would probably not want to install openssh-server.
Bringing us back around to the point of this thread. :)
Thin client is one use case.
Server base is another.
JEOS cloud image is another.
We don't necessarily have
On 11/12/2012 06:44 PM, Seth Vidal wrote:
On Mon, 12 Nov 2012, Petr Lautrbach wrote:
scp is a ssh client. It connects to other host using a ssh connection and runs
'scp -t' or 'scp -f'
commands on the remote side. From my point of view, it's same as any other
program you can use via
ssh an
On Mon, 12 Nov 2012, Petr Lautrbach wrote:
scp is a ssh client. It connects to other host using a ssh connection and
runs 'scp -t' or 'scp -f'
commands on the remote side. From my point of view, it's same as any other
program you can use via
ssh and I believe that openssh-clients is the rig
On 11/12/2012 06:10 PM, Seth Vidal wrote:
On Mon, 12 Nov 2012, Dennis Jacobfeuerborn wrote:
On 11/12/2012 06:03 PM, Seth Vidal wrote:
On Mon, 12 Nov 2012, Tomas Mraz wrote:
On Mon, 2012-11-12 at 11:37 -0500, Seth Vidal wrote:
On Mon, 12 Nov 2012, Matthew Miller wrote:
On Mon, Nov
On Mon, 12 Nov 2012, Dennis Jacobfeuerborn wrote:
On 11/12/2012 06:03 PM, Seth Vidal wrote:
On Mon, 12 Nov 2012, Tomas Mraz wrote:
On Mon, 2012-11-12 at 11:37 -0500, Seth Vidal wrote:
On Mon, 12 Nov 2012, Matthew Miller wrote:
On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 11:29:34AM -0500, Seth Vidal wr
On 11/12/2012 06:03 PM, Seth Vidal wrote:
>
>
>
> On Mon, 12 Nov 2012, Tomas Mraz wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 2012-11-12 at 11:37 -0500, Seth Vidal wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, 12 Nov 2012, Matthew Miller wrote:
>>>
On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 11:29:34AM -0500, Seth Vidal wrote:
> I think ssh has to
On Mon, 12 Nov 2012, Tomas Mraz wrote:
On Mon, 2012-11-12 at 11:37 -0500, Seth Vidal wrote:
On Mon, 12 Nov 2012, Matthew Miller wrote:
On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 11:29:34AM -0500, Seth Vidal wrote:
I think ssh has to be in the mix. Of ths systems I use/maintain/etc
very few of them are one
On Mon, 2012-11-12 at 11:37 -0500, Seth Vidal wrote:
>
>
> On Mon, 12 Nov 2012, Matthew Miller wrote:
>
> > On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 11:29:34AM -0500, Seth Vidal wrote:
> >> I think ssh has to be in the mix. Of ths systems I use/maintain/etc
> >> very few of them are ones I actually have a relia
On Mon, 12 Nov 2012, Matthew Miller wrote:
On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 11:29:34AM -0500, Seth Vidal wrote:
I think ssh has to be in the mix. Of ths systems I use/maintain/etc
very few of them are ones I actually have a reliable console to.
If ssh isn't there, I have to add it just to get the sys
On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 11:29:34AM -0500, Seth Vidal wrote:
> I think ssh has to be in the mix. Of ths systems I use/maintain/etc
> very few of them are ones I actually have a reliable console to.
> If ssh isn't there, I have to add it just to get the system set up.
Yeah: if we get to the point wh
On Mon, 12 Nov 2012, Matthew Miller wrote:
Okay, cool -- there's a lot of enthusiasm for a SIG for the core package
set.
So, first up on the SIG goals: clarifying our target.
It's been suggested before that there's so many possibilities that this is
useless, but the point here is to *pick*
Okay, cool -- there's a lot of enthusiasm for a SIG for the core package
set.
So, first up on the SIG goals: clarifying our target.
It's been suggested before that there's so many possibilities that this is
useless, but the point here is to *pick* a reasonable choice as a group and
to work with t
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