Re: [Fedora-packaging] Proposal to reduce anti-bundling requirements

2015-09-10 Thread Simo Sorce
On Thu, 2015-09-10 at 21:30 -0700, Adam Williamson wrote: > On Thu, 2015-09-10 at 18:57 -0700, Adam Williamson wrote: > > > I think I'm gonna go and do one of my deep dives into the history of > > these rules tonight. I have a definite memory that at one point the > > accepted wisdom was that only

Re: [Fedora-packaging] Proposal to reduce anti-bundling requirements

2015-09-10 Thread Adam Williamson
On Thu, 2015-09-10 at 18:57 -0700, Adam Williamson wrote: > I think I'm gonna go and do one of my deep dives into the history of > these rules tonight. I have a definite memory that at one point the > accepted wisdom was that only bundling of *already packaged* stuff > was forbidden, but now i loo

Re: file triggers for updating fontconfig cache in rawhide

2015-09-10 Thread Akira TAGOH
On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 3:39 AM, Matthew Miller wrote: > On Thu, Sep 10, 2015 at 07:35:03PM +0200, nicolas.mail...@laposte.net wrote: >> > I just discovered that trying to install the Noto font family in >> > Software will reliably kill a (relatively powerful) system. This will >> > fix that, righ

Re: [Fedora-packaging] Proposal to reduce anti-bundling requirements

2015-09-10 Thread Adam Williamson
On September 10, 2015 6:25:48 PM PDT, Adam Williamson wrote: >On Thu, 2015-09-10 at 18:13 -0700, Adam Williamson wrote: >> On Thu, 2015-09-10 at 20:04 -0500, Jason L Tibbitts III wrote: >> > > > > > > "AW" == Adam Williamson writes: >> > >> > AW> I think the fact that we can't even have a discu

Re: [Fedora-packaging] Proposal to reduce anti-bundling requirements

2015-09-10 Thread Adam Williamson
On Thu, 2015-09-10 at 18:13 -0700, Adam Williamson wrote: > On Thu, 2015-09-10 at 20:04 -0500, Jason L Tibbitts III wrote: > > > > > > > "AW" == Adam Williamson writes: > > > > AW> I think the fact that we can't even have a discussion of this > > where > > AW> we both understand what the current

Re: [Fedora-packaging] Proposal to reduce anti-bundling requirements

2015-09-10 Thread Adam Williamson
On Thu, 2015-09-10 at 20:04 -0500, Jason L Tibbitts III wrote: > > > > > > "AW" == Adam Williamson writes: > > AW> I think the fact that we can't even have a discussion of this > where > AW> we both understand what the current rules actually *are* clearly > AW> indicates they have a clarity probl

Re: [Fedora-packaging] Proposal to reduce anti-bundling requirements

2015-09-10 Thread Adam Williamson
On Thu, 2015-09-10 at 18:59 -0500, Jason L Tibbitts III wrote: > > > > > > "AW" == Adam Williamson > > > > > > writes: > > AW> That just says 'multiple, separate upstream projects' (nothing > about > AW> being 'compiled in'), and implies that absolutely any such case > can > AW> only be included

Re: [Fedora-packaging] Proposal to reduce anti-bundling requirements

2015-09-10 Thread Jason L Tibbitts III
> "AW" == Adam Williamson writes: AW> I think the fact that we can't even have a discussion of this where AW> we both understand what the current rules actually *are* clearly AW> indicates they have a clarity problem =) You may recall my earlier message in this thread where I indicated that

Re: [Fedora-packaging] Proposal to reduce anti-bundling requirements

2015-09-10 Thread Jason L Tibbitts III
> "AM" == Adam Miller writes: AM> I also like the proposal for the bundled() macro definition AM> for tracking purposes. Just a note that it isn't a proposal; that is the current requirement for anything which bundles things. - J< -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https:

Re: [Fedora-packaging] Proposal to reduce anti-bundling requirements

2015-09-10 Thread Jason L Tibbitts III
> "AW" == Adam Williamson writes: AW> That just says 'multiple, separate upstream projects' (nothing about AW> being 'compiled in'), and implies that absolutely any such case can AW> only be included with an explicit 'Bundling Exception'. OK, so "compiled in" isn't really the right term if y

Re: [Fedora-packaging] Proposal to reduce anti-bundling requirements

2015-09-10 Thread Jason L Tibbitts III
> "MM" == Matthew Miller writes: MM> I think it's because overriding a different group seems hostile, MM> even if it isn't meant that way. And FESCo doesn't want to feel like MM> they're second-guessing other groups all the time. Well, FPC even has a "bounce to FESCo clause" in the rules we

Re: [Fedora-packaging] Proposal to reduce anti-bundling requirements

2015-09-10 Thread Adam Williamson
On Thu, 2015-09-10 at 14:33 -0600, Kevin Fenzi wrote: > On Thu, 10 Sep 2015 13:15:51 -0700 > Adam Williamson wrote: > > > Huh, maybe it changed? Or there's a different license somewhere. > > I'm > > almost sure it used to be, and this was intentional. Oh well, > > substitute some other example, y

Re: [Fedora-packaging] Proposal to reduce anti-bundling requirements

2015-09-10 Thread Kevin Fenzi
On Thu, 10 Sep 2015 13:15:51 -0700 Adam Williamson wrote: > Huh, maybe it changed? Or there's a different license somewhere. I'm > almost sure it used to be, and this was intentional. Oh well, > substitute some other example, you get the point - Sun's Java or > something. It was just an example.

Re: [Fedora-packaging] Proposal to reduce anti-bundling requirements

2015-09-10 Thread Paul W. Frields
On Thu, Sep 10, 2015 at 03:50:27PM -0400, Matthew Miller wrote: > On Thu, Sep 10, 2015 at 02:41:13PM -0500, Jason L Tibbitts III wrote: > > Anyway, what I don't get is why we're to the point of tossing out the > > primary anti-bundling rule when FESCo has always had the power to > > override any FP

Re: [Fedora-packaging] Proposal to reduce anti-bundling requirements

2015-09-10 Thread Adam Williamson
On Thu, 2015-09-10 at 13:11 -0600, Kevin Fenzi wrote: > On Thu, 10 Sep 2015 11:02:31 -0700 > Adam Williamson wrote: > > > Kernel modules are kind of a grey area because there are differing > > opinions on their legality in re the GPL, but in general terms, > > it's > > not correct to say we don't

Re: [Fedora-packaging] Proposal to reduce anti-bundling requirements

2015-09-10 Thread Paul W. Frields
On Thu, Sep 10, 2015 at 02:59:41PM -0400, Simo Sorce wrote: > On Thu, 2015-09-10 at 12:39 -0500, Jason L Tibbitts III wrote: > > > "MM" == Matthew Miller writes: > > > > MM> That said, I do recognize that "provides high-quality packages" has > > MM> also always been an underlying Fedora value

Re: [Fedora-packaging] Proposal to reduce anti-bundling requirements

2015-09-10 Thread Matthew Miller
On Thu, Sep 10, 2015 at 02:41:13PM -0500, Jason L Tibbitts III wrote: > Anyway, what I don't get is why we're to the point of tossing out the > primary anti-bundling rule when FESCo has always had the power to > override any FPC decision. So FPC says "this isn't good packaging" and > FESCo can say

Re: Proposal to reduce anti-bundling requirements

2015-09-10 Thread Adam Miller
On Thu, Sep 10, 2015 at 10:43 AM, Adam Williamson wrote: > On Thu, 2015-09-10 at 09:53 -0400, Stephen Gallagher wrote: >> I assume that subject line got your attention. >> >> I know this is a long-standing debate and that this thread is likely >> to turn into an incomprehensible flamewar filled wi

Re: Proposal to reduce anti-bundling requirements

2015-09-10 Thread Adam Miller
On Thu, Sep 10, 2015 at 10:04 AM, Peter Robinson wrote: >>> > I would like to propose that the no-bundled-libraries policy be >>> > amended as follows: "Any package that has an existing mechanism to >>> > link against a shared system library and functions correctly when >>> > doing so must link a

Re: [Fedora-packaging] Proposal to reduce anti-bundling requirements

2015-09-10 Thread Jason L Tibbitts III
> "SS" == Simo Sorce writes: SS> I have the impression (which may be totally wrong) that you are SS> taking the binary approach here: either we care maximally or we do SS> not care at all. I sure hope that's not the tack I'm taking. SS> It seem to me Stephen is making a proposal to tweak ju

Re: [Fedora-packaging] Proposal to reduce anti-bundling requirements

2015-09-10 Thread Adam Miller
On Thu, Sep 10, 2015 at 9:06 AM, Stephen Gallagher wrote: > On Thu, 2015-09-10 at 09:03 -0500, Jon Ciesla wrote: >> >> >> On Thu, Sep 10, 2015 at 8:53 AM, Stephen Gallagher > om> wrote: >> > I assume that subject line got your attention. >> > >> Most definitely. :) >> >> So it's basically the same

Re: [Fedora-packaging] Proposal to reduce anti-bundling requirements

2015-09-10 Thread Adam Miller
On Thu, Sep 10, 2015 at 8:53 AM, Stephen Gallagher wrote: > I assume that subject line got your attention. > > I know this is a long-standing debate and that this thread is likely > to turn into an incomprehensible flamewar filled with the same tired > arguments, but I'm going to make a proposal a

Re: [Fedora-packaging] Proposal to reduce anti-bundling requirements

2015-09-10 Thread Kevin Fenzi
On Thu, 10 Sep 2015 11:02:31 -0700 Adam Williamson wrote: > Kernel modules are kind of a grey area because there are differing > opinions on their legality in re the GPL, but in general terms, it's > not correct to say we don't include non-free software for *legal* > reasons. There are plenty of

Re: Proposal to reduce anti-bundling requirements

2015-09-10 Thread Przemek Klosowski
On 09/10/2015 09:53 AM, Stephen Gallagher wrote: The point of software is to provide a service to an end-user. Users don't run software because it has good packaging policies, they run software because it meets a need that they have. If they can't get that software from Fedora, they *will* get it

Re: [Fedora-packaging] Proposal to reduce anti-bundling requirements

2015-09-10 Thread Adam Williamson
On Thu, 2015-09-10 at 21:01 +0200, Reindl Harald wrote: > > Am 10.09.2015 um 20:37 schrieb Matthew Miller: > > On Thu, Sep 10, 2015 at 07:48:22PM +0200, Reindl Harald wrote: > > > if i would want a operating system where i have no idea after > > > security updates for a library if *all* applicatio

Re: [Fedora-packaging] Proposal to reduce anti-bundling requirements

2015-09-10 Thread Reindl Harald
Am 10.09.2015 um 20:37 schrieb Matthew Miller: On Thu, Sep 10, 2015 at 07:48:22PM +0200, Reindl Harald wrote: if i would want a operating system where i have no idea after security updates for a library if *all* applications are fixed i could just have gone to Apple OSX or stayed at Windows

Re: [Fedora-packaging] Proposal to reduce anti-bundling requirements

2015-09-10 Thread Simo Sorce
On Thu, 2015-09-10 at 12:39 -0500, Jason L Tibbitts III wrote: > > "MM" == Matthew Miller writes: > > MM> That said, I do recognize that "provides high-quality packages" has > MM> also always been an underlying Fedora value even if unstated. But, I > MM> think that _that_ value should be in s

Re: file triggers for updating fontconfig cache in rawhide

2015-09-10 Thread Matthew Miller
On Thu, Sep 10, 2015 at 07:35:03PM +0200, nicolas.mail...@laposte.net wrote: > > I just discovered that trying to install the Noto font family in > > Software will reliably kill a (relatively powerful) system. This will > > fix that, right? > I fear that's the cause, not the solution. The previous

Re: [Fedora-packaging] Proposal to reduce anti-bundling requirements

2015-09-10 Thread Matthew Miller
On Thu, Sep 10, 2015 at 07:48:22PM +0200, Reindl Harald wrote: > if i would want a operating system where i have no idea after > security updates for a library if *all* applications are fixed i > could just have gone to Apple OSX or stayed at Windows Unbundling is one approach to that problem. It

Re: [Fedora-packaging] Proposal to reduce anti-bundling requirements

2015-09-10 Thread Stephen Gallagher
On Thu, 2015-09-10 at 11:02 -0700, Adam Williamson wrote: > On Thu, 2015-09-10 at 12:58 -0400, Stephen Gallagher wrote: > > On Thu, 2015-09-10 at 11:02 -0500, Jason L Tibbitts III wrote: > > > > > > > > > > "SG" == Stephen Gallagher writes: > > > SG> If they can't get that software from Fedora, t

Fedora 23 Branched 20150910 compose check report

2015-09-10 Thread Fedora compose checker
Missing expected images: Cloud atomic Disk x86_64 Cloud base Disk i386 Images in this compose but not 23 Branched 20150909: Kde Live i386 Kde Live x86_64 Scientific_kde Live x86_64 Scientific_kde Live i386 Kde Disk armhfp No images in 23 Branched 20150909 but not this. Failed openQA tests: 21

Re: [Fedora-packaging] Proposal to reduce anti-bundling requirements

2015-09-10 Thread Matthew Miller
On Thu, Sep 10, 2015 at 12:39:54PM -0500, Jason L Tibbitts III wrote: > MM> That said, I do recognize that "provides high-quality packages" has > MM> also always been an underlying Fedora value even if unstated. But, I > MM> think that _that_ value should be in support of the Big Four, and in > MM>

Self Introduction: David Muse

2015-09-10 Thread David Muse
Hello all, My name is David Muse. I'm the lead developer of the SQL Relay database connection management system (http://sqlrelay.sourceforge.net) as well as several other software projects (http://www.firstworks.com). I've been developing and integrating open source software for over 15 year

Re: [Fedora-packaging] Proposal to reduce anti-bundling requirements

2015-09-10 Thread Adam Williamson
On Thu, 2015-09-10 at 12:58 -0400, Stephen Gallagher wrote: > On Thu, 2015-09-10 at 11:02 -0500, Jason L Tibbitts III wrote: > > > > > > > > "SG" == Stephen Gallagher writes: > > SG> If they can't get that software from Fedora, they *will* get it > > from > > SG> another source (or use a differen

Re: [Fedora-packaging] Proposal to reduce anti-bundling requirements

2015-09-10 Thread Reindl Harald
Am 10.09.2015 um 19:45 schrieb Stephen Gallagher: Right, so that's basically the point of this thread. It's time to decide if we as the Fedora Community still care enough to go through all that process. I didn't want to just have one group (FESCo) deciding something of that import without bring

Re: [Fedora-packaging] Proposal to reduce anti-bundling requirements

2015-09-10 Thread Stephen Gallagher
On Thu, 2015-09-10 at 12:39 -0500, Jason L Tibbitts III wrote: > > > > > > "MM" == Matthew Miller writes: > > MM> That said, I do recognize that "provides high-quality packages" > has > MM> also always been an underlying Fedora value even if unstated. > But, I > MM> think that _that_ value should

Re: [Fedora-packaging] Proposal to reduce anti-bundling requirements

2015-09-10 Thread Jason L Tibbitts III
> "MM" == Matthew Miller writes: MM> That said, I do recognize that "provides high-quality packages" has MM> also always been an underlying Fedora value even if unstated. But, I MM> think that _that_ value should be in support of the Big Four, and in MM> support of our mission in general, not

Re: file triggers for updating fontconfig cache in rawhide

2015-09-10 Thread nicolas . mailhot
- Mail original - De: "Matthew Miller" > I just discovered that trying to install the Noto font family in > Software will reliably kill a (relatively powerful) system. This will > fix that, right? I fear that's the cause, not the solution. The previous solution was very careful to onl

Re: /var/log/dnf.log

2015-09-10 Thread Reindl Harald
Am 10.09.2015 um 18:58 schrieb drago01: On Thu, Sep 10, 2015 at 5:46 PM, Reindl Harald wrote: Am 10.09.2015 um 17:38 schrieb David Sommerseth: On 10/09/15 15:31, Reindl Harald wrote: what in the world is that garbage instead a clear and simple log as /var/log/yum.log just listing installe

Re: [Fedora-packaging] Proposal to reduce anti-bundling requirements

2015-09-10 Thread Matthew Miller
On Thu, Sep 10, 2015 at 11:02:27AM -0500, Jason L Tibbitts III wrote: > I know that's something of a straw man, but my point is that we must > have some principles, and must work with upstreams to attempt to get > them to at least understand those principles. And we shouldn't give up > on that jus

Re: [Fedora-packaging] Proposal to reduce anti-bundling requirements

2015-09-10 Thread Neal Gompa
On Thu, Sep 10, 2015 at 12:42 PM, Adam Williamson < adamw...@fedoraproject.org> wrote: > On Thu, 2015-09-10 at 11:02 -0500, Jason L Tibbitts III wrote: > > > > > > > "SG" == Stephen Gallagher writes: > > > > SG> Right now, we have a policy that essentially forbids source code > > SG> from being b

Re: /var/log/dnf.log

2015-09-10 Thread drago01
On Thu, Sep 10, 2015 at 5:46 PM, Reindl Harald wrote: > > Am 10.09.2015 um 17:38 schrieb David Sommerseth: >> >> On 10/09/15 15:31, Reindl Harald wrote: >>> >>> what in the world is that garbage instead a clear and simple log as >>> /var/log/yum.log just listing installed, removed and updated pack

Re: [Fedora-packaging] Proposal to reduce anti-bundling requirements

2015-09-10 Thread Stephen Gallagher
On Thu, 2015-09-10 at 11:02 -0500, Jason L Tibbitts III wrote: > > > > > > "SG" == Stephen Gallagher writes: > SG> If they can't get that software from Fedora, they *will* get it > from > SG> another source (or use a different OS that doesn't get in their > SG> way). > > Exactly. Let's ship bin

[HEADS-UP] po4a-0.47 on rawhide and F23, please test it !

2015-09-10 Thread Sérgio Basto
Hi, I just submit po4a-0.47 into F23 ... , po4a don't have any soname bump [1] but is wild used , so some attention is advised . [1] http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/rpminfo?rpmID=6751460 Thanks, -- Sérgio M. B. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproje

Re: [Fedora-packaging] Proposal to reduce anti-bundling requirements

2015-09-10 Thread Adam Williamson
On Thu, 2015-09-10 at 11:02 -0500, Jason L Tibbitts III wrote: > > > > > > "SG" == Stephen Gallagher writes: > > SG> Right now, we have a policy that essentially forbids source code > SG> from being bundled into a package. > > Technically we only care if that bundled code is actually compiled >

Re: /var/log/dnf.log

2015-09-10 Thread David Sommerseth
On 10/09/15 17:46, Reindl Harald wrote: > > Am 10.09.2015 um 17:38 schrieb David Sommerseth: >> On 10/09/15 15:31, Reindl Harald wrote: >>> what in the world is that garbage instead a clear and simple log as >>> /var/log/yum.log just listing installed, removed and updated packages? >>> >>> frank

Re: file triggers for updating fontconfig cache in rawhide

2015-09-10 Thread Matthew Miller
On Mon, Sep 07, 2015 at 02:13:28PM +0900, Akira TAGOH wrote: > I've added the file triggers for fonts in rawhide to update the cache > and dropped the call of fc-cache in %post/un from fontpackages. we may > need to rebuild all of font packages eventually though, please let me > know if you see an

Re: Proposal to reduce anti-bundling requirements

2015-09-10 Thread Florian Weimer
On 09/10/2015 05:40 PM, Daniel P. Berrange wrote: > Even if the problems did occur, the user is going to see it whether > they get the app from Fedora or from a 3rd party repo. Not necessarily. Even more bundling (everything except glibc) tends to fix it. -- Florian Weimer / Red Hat Product Se

Re: [Fedora-packaging] Proposal to reduce anti-bundling requirements

2015-09-10 Thread Jason L Tibbitts III
> "SG" == Stephen Gallagher writes: SG> Right now, we have a policy that essentially forbids source code SG> from being bundled into a package. Technically we only care if that bundled code is actually compiled in. SG> In technical terms, this means essentially that the packaging SG> polici

Re: [Fedora-packaging] Proposal to reduce anti-bundling requirements

2015-09-10 Thread Jon Ciesla
On Thu, Sep 10, 2015 at 10:44 AM, Adam Williamson < adamw...@fedoraproject.org> wrote: > On Thu, 2015-09-10 at 09:03 -0500, Jon Ciesla wrote: > > On Thu, Sep 10, 2015 at 8:53 AM, Stephen Gallagher > om> > > wrote: > > > > > I assume that subject line got your attention. > > > > > > Most definitel

Re: /var/log/dnf.log

2015-09-10 Thread Reindl Harald
Am 10.09.2015 um 17:38 schrieb David Sommerseth: On 10/09/15 15:31, Reindl Harald wrote: what in the world is that garbage instead a clear and simple log as /var/log/yum.log just listing installed, removed and updated packages? frankly it's impossible to write worksheets as admin what happened

Re: [Fedora-packaging] Proposal to reduce anti-bundling requirements

2015-09-10 Thread Adam Williamson
On Thu, 2015-09-10 at 09:03 -0500, Jon Ciesla wrote: > On Thu, Sep 10, 2015 at 8:53 AM, Stephen Gallagher om> > wrote: > > > I assume that subject line got your attention. > > > > Most definitely. :) > > So it's basically the same but without FPC as a gatekeeper? Do you > have > any proposals

Re: Proposal to reduce anti-bundling requirements

2015-09-10 Thread Adam Williamson
On Thu, 2015-09-10 at 09:53 -0400, Stephen Gallagher wrote: > I assume that subject line got your attention. > > I know this is a long-standing debate and that this thread is likely > to turn into an incomprehensible flamewar filled with the same tired > arguments, but I'm going to make a proposal

Re: /var/log/dnf.log

2015-09-10 Thread Brandon Vincent
On Thu, Sep 10, 2015 at 8:25 AM, Jonathan Wakely wrote: > Doesn't that affect logging to stdout, rather than to dnf.log? I was under the impression it did both. Brandon Vincent -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code

Re: Proposal to reduce anti-bundling requirements

2015-09-10 Thread Daniel P. Berrange
On Thu, Sep 10, 2015 at 11:25:00AM -0400, Stephen Gallagher wrote: > On Thu, 2015-09-10 at 16:04 +0100, Peter Robinson wrote: > > > > > I would like to propose that the no-bundled-libraries policy be > > > > > amended as follows: "Any package that has an existing > > > > > mechanism to > > > > > l

Re: /var/log/dnf.log

2015-09-10 Thread David Sommerseth
On 10/09/15 15:31, Reindl Harald wrote: > what in the world is that garbage instead a clear and simple log as > /var/log/yum.log just listing installed, removed and updated packages? > > frankly it's impossible to write worksheets as admin what happened in > the last few weeks with such needless

Re: Proposal to reduce anti-bundling requirements

2015-09-10 Thread Stephen Gallagher
On Thu, 2015-09-10 at 16:04 +0100, Peter Robinson wrote: > > > > I would like to propose that the no-bundled-libraries policy be > > > > amended as follows: "Any package that has an existing > > > > mechanism to > > > > link against a shared system library and functions correctly > > > > when > >

Re: /var/log/dnf.log

2015-09-10 Thread Jonathan Wakely
On 10/09/15 08:06 -0700, Brandon Vincent wrote: On Thu, Sep 10, 2015 at 6:31 AM, Reindl Harald wrote: what in the world is that garbage instead a clear and simple log as /var/log/yum.log just listing installed, removed and updated packages? frankly it's impossible to write worksheets as admin

Re: /var/log/dnf.log

2015-09-10 Thread Brandon Vincent
On Thu, Sep 10, 2015 at 6:31 AM, Reindl Harald wrote: > what in the world is that garbage instead a clear and simple log as > /var/log/yum.log just listing installed, removed and updated packages? > > frankly it's impossible to write worksheets as admin what happened in the > last few weeks with s

Re: Proposal to reduce anti-bundling requirements

2015-09-10 Thread Peter Robinson
>> > I would like to propose that the no-bundled-libraries policy be >> > amended as follows: "Any package that has an existing mechanism to >> > link against a shared system library and functions correctly when >> > doing so must link against that library and not bundle it >> > internally. >> > A

Re: Proposal to reduce anti-bundling requirements

2015-09-10 Thread Florian Weimer
On 09/10/2015 04:51 PM, Stephen Gallagher wrote: >> How do you propose to resolve symbol conflicts if both the system >> library and the bundled library are loaded into the same process? >> The >> current ELF linking scheme lacks good support for bundling libraries >> whose exported symbols have

Re: Proposal to reduce anti-bundling requirements

2015-09-10 Thread Stephen Gallagher
On Thu, 2015-09-10 at 16:42 +0200, Florian Weimer wrote: > On 09/10/2015 03:53 PM, Stephen Gallagher wrote: > > > I would like to propose that the no-bundled-libraries policy be > > amended as follows: "Any package that has an existing mechanism to > > link against a shared system library and fun

Fedora Rawhide 20150910 compose check report

2015-09-10 Thread Fedora compose checker
Missing expected images: Kde Live i386 Workstation Live i386 Cloud base Disk i386 Cloud base Disk x86_64 Kde Live x86_64 Cloud atomic Disk x86_64 Kde Disk armhfp Workstation Live x86_64 Images in this compose but not Rawhide 20150909: Xfce Live x86_64 Xfce Live i386 Robotics Live i386 Xfce Disk

Re: Proposal to reduce anti-bundling requirements

2015-09-10 Thread Andrew Haley
On 09/10/2015 03:06 PM, Ralf Corsepius wrote: > My view: It's an ongoing struggle and fight against upstream > incompetence, carelessness, sloppiness and low-quality crap software. > It's a fight we should not give up to, because it would cause damage the > quality of Fedora. > > In that sense,

Re: Proposal to reduce anti-bundling requirements

2015-09-10 Thread Florian Weimer
On 09/10/2015 03:53 PM, Stephen Gallagher wrote: > I would like to propose that the no-bundled-libraries policy be > amended as follows: "Any package that has an existing mechanism to > link against a shared system library and functions correctly when > doing so must link against that library and

Re: [Fedora-packaging] Proposal to reduce anti-bundling requirements

2015-09-10 Thread Paul W. Frields
On Thu, Sep 10, 2015 at 04:18:00PM +0200, Ralf Corsepius wrote: > On 09/10/2015 04:06 PM, Stephen Gallagher wrote: > >On Thu, 2015-09-10 at 09:03 -0500, Jon Ciesla wrote: > >> > >> > >>On Thu, Sep 10, 2015 at 8:53 AM, Stephen Gallagher >>om> wrote: > >>>I assume that subject line got your attentio

[Test-Announce] Fedora 23 Beta Freeze

2015-09-10 Thread Dennis Gilmore
Hi all, Tuesday was an important day on the Fedora 23 schedule[1], with two significant cut-offs. Tuesday was the Beta freeze[2]. This means that only packages which fix accepted blocker or freeze exception bugs[3][4] will be marked as 'stable' and included in the Beta composes. Other builds wil

Re: Proposal to reduce anti-bundling requirements

2015-09-10 Thread Josh Boyer
On Thu, Sep 10, 2015 at 10:24 AM, Ralf Corsepius wrote: > On 09/10/2015 04:08 PM, Josh Boyer wrote: >> >> On Thu, Sep 10, 2015 at 9:53 AM, Stephen Gallagher >> wrote: > > >> Is the intention of your proposal to also allow Chromium into the main >> Fedora repos? I honestly can't tell where it dra

Re: Proposal to reduce anti-bundling requirements

2015-09-10 Thread Ralf Corsepius
On 09/10/2015 04:08 PM, Josh Boyer wrote: On Thu, Sep 10, 2015 at 9:53 AM, Stephen Gallagher wrote: Is the intention of your proposal to also allow Chromium into the main Fedora repos? I honestly can't tell where it draws the line. We have a long list of bundling exceptions in Fedora. I do

Re: Proposal to reduce anti-bundling requirements

2015-09-10 Thread Stephen Gallagher
On Thu, 2015-09-10 at 10:08 -0400, Josh Boyer wrote: > On Thu, Sep 10, 2015 at 9:53 AM, Stephen Gallagher om> wrote: > > I assume that subject line got your attention. > > > > I know this is a long-standing debate and that this thread is > > likely > > to turn into an incomprehensible flamewar fi

man-db-2.7.3-2.fc24 with file triggers in rawhide

2015-09-10 Thread Nikola Forró
Hello, I've pushed man-db with file triggers and crontab dependency dropped to rawhide. Removing cron job means that there will be no periodic cache update for user-configured manpaths. There has already been discussion about this: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/devel/2014-Octobe r/thre

Re: [Fedora-packaging] Proposal to reduce anti-bundling requirements

2015-09-10 Thread Ralf Corsepius
On 09/10/2015 04:06 PM, Stephen Gallagher wrote: On Thu, 2015-09-10 at 09:03 -0500, Jon Ciesla wrote: On Thu, Sep 10, 2015 at 8:53 AM, Stephen Gallagher wrote: I assume that subject line got your attention. Most definitely. :) So it's basically the same but without FPC as a gatekeeper? D

Re: /var/log/dnf.log

2015-09-10 Thread Jonathan Wakely
On 10/09/15 15:31 +0200, Reindl Harald wrote: what in the world is that garbage instead a clear and simple log as /var/log/yum.log just listing installed, removed and updated packages? Yes, it's unhelpful nonsense. There doesn't seem to be a replacement for yum.log :-( -- devel mailing list d

Re: Proposal to reduce anti-bundling requirements

2015-09-10 Thread Josh Boyer
On Thu, Sep 10, 2015 at 9:53 AM, Stephen Gallagher wrote: > I assume that subject line got your attention. > > I know this is a long-standing debate and that this thread is likely > to turn into an incomprehensible flamewar filled with the same tired > arguments, but I'm going to make a proposal a

Re: Proposal to reduce anti-bundling requirements

2015-09-10 Thread Pádraig Brady
On 10/09/15 14:53, Stephen Gallagher wrote: > I assume that subject line got your attention. > The reason for this proposal is relatively simple: we know the > advantages to unbundling, particularly with security and resource- > usage. However, the world's developer community largely *does not > c

Re: Proposal to reduce anti-bundling requirements

2015-09-10 Thread Ralf Corsepius
On 09/10/2015 03:53 PM, Stephen Gallagher wrote: I assume that subject line got your attention. The reason for this proposal is relatively simple: we know the advantages to unbundling, particularly with security and resource- usage. However, the world's developer community largely *does not ca

Re: [Fedora-packaging] Proposal to reduce anti-bundling requirements

2015-09-10 Thread Stephen Gallagher
On Thu, 2015-09-10 at 09:03 -0500, Jon Ciesla wrote: > > > On Thu, Sep 10, 2015 at 8:53 AM, Stephen Gallagher om> wrote: > > I assume that subject line got your attention. > > > Most definitely. :) > > So it's basically the same but without FPC as a gatekeeper? Do you > have any proposals for

Re: [Fedora-packaging] Proposal to reduce anti-bundling requirements

2015-09-10 Thread Jon Ciesla
On Thu, Sep 10, 2015 at 8:53 AM, Stephen Gallagher wrote: > I assume that subject line got your attention. > > Most definitely. :) So it's basically the same but without FPC as a gatekeeper? Do you have any proposals for enforcement? A periodic query of Provides (bundled-foo) and a BZ requesti

Proposal to reduce anti-bundling requirements

2015-09-10 Thread Stephen Gallagher
I assume that subject line got your attention. I know this is a long-standing debate and that this thread is likely to turn into an incomprehensible flamewar filled with the same tired arguments, but I'm going to make a proposal and then attempt to respond to many of those known arguments up-front

/var/log/dnf.log

2015-09-10 Thread Reindl Harald
what in the world is that garbage instead a clear and simple log as /var/log/yum.log just listing installed, removed and updated packages? frankly it's impossible to write worksheets as admin what happened in the last few weeks with such needless verbose logging Sep 10 15:26:08 INFO Gesamtgrö

Minutes from Env-and-Stacks WG meeting (2015-09-10)

2015-09-10 Thread Honza Horak
== #fedora-meeting-2: Env and Stacks (2015-09-10) == Meeting started by hhorak at 12:01:04 UTC. The full logs are available at http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting-2/2015-09-10/env-and-stacks.2015-

Re: Orphaned packages available for new point of contact

2015-09-10 Thread Christopher Meng
Should be time to drop istanbul, since it's no longer developed. -- Yours sincerely, Christopher Meng http://awk.io -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct

Re: Orphaned packages available for new point of contact

2015-09-10 Thread Richard Shaw
Already took nec2c, I've been maintaining it for over a year anyway. Thanks, Richard -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct

F-23 Branched report: 20150910 changes

2015-09-10 Thread Fedora Branched Report
Compose started at Thu Sep 10 07:15:03 UTC 2015 Broken deps for armhfp -- [ScientificPython] ScientificPython-2.8-20.fc22.armv7hl requires libmpi.so.1 [apache-scout] apache-scout-1.2.6-11.fc21.noarch requires mvn(org.apache.jud

Re: Orphaned packages available for new point of contact

2015-09-10 Thread Abdel G . Martínez L .
I will take care of python-xlib and python-couchdb. On Wednesday, September 9, 2015, Kevin Fenzi wrote: > Greetings. > > Due to FESCo ticket: https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/1474 > > * #1474 Non-responsive maintainer - Jef Spaleta (jwb, 18:10:08) > * LINK: https://fedorahosted.org/fesco

Re: Orphaned packages available for new point of contact

2015-09-10 Thread Matěj Cepl
On 2015-09-10, 09:24 GMT, Mathieu Bridon wrote: > On Thu, 2015-09-10 at 11:16 +0200, Matěj Cepl wrote: >> On 2015-09-09, 19:37 GMT, Kevin Fenzi wrote: >> > pytz >> > python-dateutil >> >> I see these two as too important to let them fall, so I am >> taking them. However, I would really really lik

Re: Orphaned packages available for new point of contact

2015-09-10 Thread Thomas Spura
Matěj Cepl schrieb am Do., 10. Sep. 2015 um 12:56 Uhr: > On 2015-09-10, 09:24 GMT, Mathieu Bridon wrote: > > On Thu, 2015-09-10 at 11:16 +0200, Matěj Cepl wrote: > >> On 2015-09-09, 19:37 GMT, Kevin Fenzi wrote: > >> > pytz > >> > python-dateutil > >> > >> I see these two as too important to let

rawhide report: 20150910 changes

2015-09-10 Thread Fedora Rawhide Report
Compose started at Thu Sep 10 05:15:03 UTC 2015 Broken deps for i386 -- [IQmol] IQmol-2.3.0-9.fc24.i686 requires libboost_serialization.so.1.58.0 IQmol-2.3.0-9.fc24.i686 requires libboost_iostreams.so.1.58.0 [ScientificPython]

Re: Orphaned packages available for new point of contact

2015-09-10 Thread Matěj Cepl
On 2015-09-10, 09:24 GMT, Mathieu Bridon wrote: > On Thu, 2015-09-10 at 11:16 +0200, Matěj Cepl wrote: >> On 2015-09-09, 19:37 GMT, Kevin Fenzi wrote: >> > pytz >> > python-dateutil >> >> I see these two as too important to let them fall, so I am >> taking them. However, I would really really lik

Re: Schedule for Thursday's FPC Meeting (2015-09-10 16:00 UTC)

2015-09-10 Thread Mat Booth
On 9 September 2015 at 19:21, James Antill wrote: > Following is the list of topics that will be discussed in the FPC > meeting Thursday at 2015-09-10 16:00 UTC in #fedora-meeting-1 on > irc.freenode.net. > > Local time information (via. rktime): > > 2015-09-10 09:00 Thu US/Pacific

DNF 1.1.1 and DNF-PLUGINS-CORE 0.1.11 Released

2015-09-10 Thread Honza Šilhan
Good News everyone, after another 3 weeks, new versions of DNF and DNF-PLUGINS-CORE have been released. DNF 1.1.1 brings mark command [1] feature while DNF-PLUGINS-CORE adds 4 new filters from "dnf list" command and extending functionality of `--arch` and `--tree` switches. Additionally around

Agenda for Env-and-Stacks WG meeting (2015-09-10)

2015-09-10 Thread Honza Horak
WG meeting will be at 12:00 UTC (9:00 EST, 14:00 Brno, 8:00 Boston, 21:00 Tokyo, 22:00 Brisbane) in #fedora-meeting-2 on Freenode. = Topics = * Developer portal -- whatever is needed for finalizing * RepoFunnel and the Software Component Pipeline -- any feedback https://lists.fedoraproject.or

Re: Orphaned packages available for new point of contact

2015-09-10 Thread Mathieu Bridon
On Thu, 2015-09-10 at 11:16 +0200, Matěj Cepl wrote: > On 2015-09-09, 19:37 GMT, Kevin Fenzi wrote: > > pytz > > python-dateutil > > I see these two as too important to let them fall, so I am > taking them. However, I would really really like to have some > co-maintainers, because I don’t feel l

Re: Orphaned packages available for new point of contact

2015-09-10 Thread Matěj Cepl
On 2015-09-09, 19:37 GMT, Kevin Fenzi wrote: > pytz > python-dateutil I see these two as too important to let them fall, so I am taking them. However, I would really really like to have some co-maintainers, because I don’t feel like I really understand the matter. Orion? Best, Matěj -- htt