t offer Ncurse's portability.
Cheers
FRIGN
[1]: <https://github.com/nsf/termbox/>
--
FRIGN
read "The Unix Programming Environment" who
hasn't yet, as it will answer many questions perennially brought up in
this mailing list regarding "new" ideas.
Go buy it! I'll wait.
Cheers
FRIGN
--
FRIGN
printf("%"PRIu32" %zu", ~ck, len);
if(s != NULL)
printf(" %s", s);
putchar('\n');
--
FRIGN
On Fri, 31 Jan 2014 18:43:50 +0100
FRIGN wrote:
> Using the C99 PRIu32-macro and %zu-format-specifier increase
> portability and avoid these unnecessary casts.
Argh, I forgot C90 didn't support the z-format-specifier.
So, we won't get around casting len to unsigned long -.-.
Pl
On Sat, 1 Feb 2014 20:20:51 +
sin wrote:
> Would be nice! :)
I did a raw run on the sbase-code with
$grep -ri "printf" *.c
but didn't observe more cases at first.
However, I'll dig deeper and check other areas as well.
Cheers
FRIGN
--
FRIGN
came to my attention that you probably forgot to add
the client-script the wm-script in the test-directory refers to.
It'd be really cool to be able to see what it does, but I like your
approach from the technical point of view.
Cheers
FRIGN
--
FRIGN
can't connect
to the host.
Am I missing something out, like for instance starting a daemon
beforehand?
Thanks in advance!
Cheers
FRIGN
--
FRIGN
On Mon, 10 Feb 2014 14:09:24 +0400
Ramil Farkhshatov wrote:
> Correct, you should start uifs server first.
1) I started uifs, a black window opens
2) I start the client, it tells me
"Host is not specified"
Okay, now which hostname should I pass?
Cheers
FRIGN
--
FRIGN
ches to last exported control.
I just noticed that the heading of my 9uifs-window says "broken". Could
that be a reason why I just have a black screen, even though I launch
the samples?
Cheers
FRIGN
--
FRIGN
config.mk.
Regarding including in general, take projects like 9base into
consideration, where each subdirectory includes standard build
procedures.
I myself prefer a centralized make-system over a decentralized one with
includes, but I'm sure there are people around here who can give good
reasons
On Tue, 11 Feb 2014 14:32:58 +0100
Kurt Van Dijck wrote:
> I would using 2 files hardly call 'decentralized'. Things can become worse
> than that :-)
Haha, yeah, that's definitely true!
Thanks for the heads up, these are definitely good reasons to go for
the separated app
have to live with the fact not being able to play Quake 3 in
your browser.
[1]: <http://schneegans.de/sv/>
--
FRIGN
are of what you're doing and not stacking dozens of
tabs in one window.
Nevertheless, I am sure there are use-cases for tabbed I'm not aware of
yet.
One thing is clear though: It's not dwm's task to supply tabbing.
--
FRIGN
lementing this feature in dwm.
Thus this is in fact a pretty clear case, given tabbed is more than
sufficient for this task.
However: If you tell me a case where an integrated solution in dwm is
superior to tabbed, I'm open for this debate.
Cheers
FRIGN
--
FRIGN
t
of dwm's competence.
> I do think that managing windows is part of the window manager, as
> multiple st instances are each a window, it seems best to tab them
> with the window manager.
In the end, you're just repeating your personal opinion without
justifying it. I got that before already.
And just a personal remark: Please stop top-posting.
Cheers
FRIGN
--
FRIGN
bit lengthy), it would be sufficient to
implement CSS3-selectors. Who needs round borders and shadows? :P
Cheers
FRIGN
--
FRIGN
hear what you think about my proposal[1] on this ml.
Cheers
FRIGN
[1]: http://lists.suckless.org/dev/1402/20087.html
--
FRIGN
amely surf, to
suck less.
I can't help but see a dark future for the web we know. Corporate
influence will increase and it will be harder and harder to implement
web standards, which makes a selective approach of technologies more
and more reasonable.
I like how you compared developing a new
hich is really helpful), instead of silently attempting to fix errors
like the SGML parser, which is a real chore to implement.
XML parsing is not a simple thing either, but at least you don't have
to deal with bloody guesswork!
Cheers
FRIGN
--
FRIGN
to check the page by reloading.
As we're discussing XML- and SGML-parsers here, this is another issue.
> This alone is sufficient for me to be all for simplistic strict parser
> with zero fault tollerance.
Definitely!
--
FRIGN
what's favorable for everyone.
> As said before, browsers could reject non-validating HTML as well.
They could but sadly don't. There are good reasons for this, because
the web developed this way, but I like the secondary perspective ;).
> So in the end we disagree because of persona
27;t change it (of course).
Discussing XML and SGML just implies the data-structure.
If you like, I could give you an example.
Cheers
FRIGN
--
FRIGN
th simple well defined semantics than generic things
> like sgml and xml (with arbitrary long tag and attribute
> names), once you do this the origin (sgml, xml,..) does
> not matter
At the cost modularity. Still, I'd welcome a solution like this!
--
FRIGN
dly gives insight into how unsemnatic the
web has become over the years.
Cheers
FRIGN
--
FRIGN
to both desktop-
and mobile-visitors.
However, this is no excuse to mess up the experience for everyone.
Cheers
FRIGN
--
FRIGN
On Thu, 27 Feb 2014 21:43:08 +0100
Markus Teich wrote:
> To formally found a „eingetragener
> Verein“ in germany there are 7 people required. A suckless conference 2014
> would
> be the perfect context for such an event I think.
I'd be there and join happily ;).
Great idea!
--
FRIGN
dirty technologies, but only few really
mature and make big bucks.
After all, they still remain a sad excuse.
Cheers
FRIGN
--
FRIGN
Good evening,
I'm currently working on quark and would like to propose a patch
simplifying the logmsg-, logerrmsg- and die-functions in quark.
There's more to come!
Cheers
FRIGN
@sin: Now generated with git format-patch ;)
--
FRIGN
>From 77a72d1e41c92b9ddbe6b51f5ac2a7ffecf39c
n
function ‘log’ [enabled by default]
I'll rename the function to qlog. Coincidentally, this "problem"
actually is beneficial, as I just noticed there's more potential to
optimize the code.
Stay tuned.
Cheers
FRIGN
--
FRIGN
#x27;t work out for me.
Cheers
FRIGN
--
FRIGN
ions, but in this case, it's not for
the better.
Attached is the fixed patch, which also gets rid of atomiclog().
Cheers
FRIGN
--
FRIGN
>From 8dd0eeaafd2b4146ce2d8beb7d090018b136348e Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
From: FRIGN
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2014 21:48:59 +0100
Subject: [PATCH] Clean up
ore package-manager shouldn't depend on python, it should be
statically linked and _fast_.
--
FRIGN
log-messages.
If you look at the current solution with separate functions, there is
lots of unnecessary code-duplication.
Cheers
FRIGN
--
FRIGN
may not be the most scientific approach, but it gives an
impression on what an interpreted language tends to consume.
In some cases, Python is up to 50% slower than well-written C, but to
be fair, it does the memory-management for you ;).
> In my opinion Go(lang) makes Python obsolete in almost
core-language-features, which
could also be maleficent.
--
FRIGN
t you can see writing code
with GTK and all its derived types.
A question to everyone on this list: What do you think about the
Go-language?
Cheers
FRIGN
--
FRIGN
a "Hello World"-program is an unreasonable demand. It's
possible to strip the size to around 1.2M by passing
-ldflags '-s -w'
to "go build".
This is quite inhibiting, but I'm glad to see this modern
language default to static linking.
Cheers
FRIGN
--
FRIGN
stuff from it (as
explained earlier).
And don't get me started on the busybox-approach!
This may be just 0.01% of a 1TB-drive, but it sure adds up on a 128G or
even 64G SSD.
> I appreciate that my needs/use cases are not necessarily representative
> of others on this list.
Yes, that's a fair assumption.
--
FRIGN
On Wed, 5 Mar 2014 00:16:13 -0800
Anthony Martin wrote:
> People are working on this:
Well, then let's see what time will bring us ;).
Cheers
FRIGN
--
FRIGN
cluded.)
53M is a lot! Well, I think it's time for buying another external
hard-drive for all your Haskell-binaries :P.
Cheers
FRIGN
--
FRIGN
le should care about whitespace both for
> whitespace-sensitive and for whitespace-insensitive languages.
Or just leave it to the developer?
Cheers
FRIGN
--
FRIGN
ile shell-scripts if you had the time to write
the proper interfaces.
Does this make it a compiled language? Hell no!
It still is a scripting language, even if you can compile it with some tweaks.
--
FRIGN
an operating system?). Arguably, expressiveness and developer
> productivity (however measured) might be even more important.
I agree on that point. Let's not get hung up at the definitions, but
return to a constructive discussion.
Cheers
FRIGN
--
FRIGN
the right way".
There are good reasons to have mutual coding-guidelines and standards
for intercommunication, but as long as you work by the standards, hell,
you're free to use your computer the way you like it ;).
Cheers
FRIGN
--
FRIGN
x7fae09234000)
> ~% ./t
> hello world
> ~%
Impressive, but better use
$ LD_TRACE_LOADED_OBJECTS=1 t
instead of
$ ldd t
next time to prevent arbitrary code-execution[1] in case you're dealing
with unknown binaries.
Cheers
FRIGN
[1]: http://www.catonmat.net/blog/ldd-arbitrary-code-execution/
--
FRIGN
s it a hell lot easier to run
a big set of software on it with relatively little work.
What are your plans in this regard?
Cheers
FRIGN
--
FRIGN
code
over faster, but less readable and harder to maintain code.
I'm sure that a simpler implementation allows refactoring in the
future.
Cheers
FRIGN
--
FRIGN
ting tox-core.
Releasing a client under the well-renowned suckless-name would
definitely bring in more trust into the Tox-IM-protocol, and, if it
turns out to be successful, in turn make the suckless-philosophy more
popular.
It was only coincidence that I heard of this great piece of software,
let's
On Sun, 23 Mar 2014 21:33:29 +0100
FRIGN wrote:
> [0]: https://github.com/nurupo/ProjectTox-Qt-GUI
Of course, this should be
[0]: http://tox.im/ / https://github.com/irungentoo/ProjectTox-Core
--
FRIGN
er", as it's building on top of a DHT-P2P-network and you just
have a hash-key you give to your friends and they can directly add you.
This strong benefit is imho one of the key advantages over centralized
systems like those based on XMPP (Pidgin being a client).
Cheers
FRIGN
--
FRIGN
n you're using Tox.
Cheers
FRIGN
--
FRIGN
mething and then
> retry with proper rtp.
Except from the lousy port-guessing-algorithm, this should work here
already[2].
> Also don't forget ossrecord | nc, and ossplay for the other direction.
I'm not familiar with OSS.
Cheers
FRIGN
[0]: http://wiki.tox.im/Audio_and_video
[1]: http://wiki.tox.im/Routing_Protocols
[2]: http://wiki.tox.im/Symmetric_NAT_Transversal
--
FRIGN
Osama Homo bin Laden's plot to install
socialism on our shores."
Well, not to become political, I think the complexity of SIP is based
on it's high modularity.
Cheers
FRIGN
--
FRIGN
o one protocol), dramatically decreasing the
number of possible attack-vectors because tox-core's developers are
able to integrate such solutions very well knowing what's used in the
first place.
Regarding hole punching, read my other mail.
Cheers
FRIGN
--
FRIGN
> comfortable with technical discussions.
Well, take your time.
I'm bored of discussing XMPP+SIP to be honest, when there are more
interesting things like Tox in the making ;).
Cheers
FRIGN
--
FRIGN
gh.
Retroshare adresses a rather different kind of users and, frankly, I
didn't learn to love it while using it for almost half a year.
What bugs me is the lack of separation of core and interface, what you
already noted above.
Given it's so bloated und indissectable, it doesn'
se what’s being used –
> the Unix philosophy.
That's a nice idea, Christoph. Then you could just keep on using
ii, sic or whichever IRC-client you prefer.
However, I see certain incompatibilities between Tox and IRC when it
comes to the structure of messaging (e.g. focus on p-chats).
Cheers
FRIGN
--
FRIGN
rest to develop a client also favorable for intermediate
users.
I think developing this kind of piece of software would bring the
suckless-philosophy closer to a bigger audience (and most probably
developers waiting to become professionals).
Cheers
FRIGN
--
FRIGN
egarding the RTP stream, it's transported via UDP[0] (as usual).
Don't forget the DHT-network is just the layer to help establish
P2P-connections for everything else.
So the latencies you fear are very unlikely, given the DHT-layer is
very small[1] and easy to handle for the nodes.
On Tue, 25 Mar 2014 18:11:47 +0100
hiro <23h...@gmail.com> wrote:
> does it show anywhere the rtp stream setup process including the
> hole-punching?
Not in the wiki sadly. Read the code.
--
FRIGN
to circumvent nasty NATs by just
"tunneling" it through SSH.
Cheers
FRIGN
--
FRIGN
erators.
A StringBuffer is used to store the output.
--
Longer code usually is safer, because there are more ways to do it
right.
--
As of now, I only ported the echo-command into echo.java. More will
come.
Please let me know what you think about this great advancement.
Happy hacking!
Cheers
FRIGN
P
gest we make
suckless a registered trademark and sue everyone who adopts our brand
without permission.
Cheers
FRIGN
--
FRIGN
they say it looks dead
> and bad.
DWM-screenshots never live up to its real nature, but I agree with you
on Ruby though, even though I prefer Java for everything.
We definitely need a window-factory for dwm. This should speed things
up considerably.
Cheers
FRIGN
--
FRIGN
Well, I don't think this emphasizes the SUCKLESS® corporate-identity as much as
it should.
I propose we include underscores, too:
/usr/bin/_ST_
/usr/bin/_SSELP_
/usr/bin/_SURF_
/usr/bin/_DWM_
Cheers
FRIGN
On Wed, 2 Apr 2014 14:31:21 +0200
sta...@cs.tu-berlin.de wrote:
> Thanks for bri
On Wed, 2 Apr 2014 14:36:00 +0200
Martti Kühne wrote:
> Uh, you are aware that date this thread was from is over now, do you?
You must be fun at parties...
--
FRIGN
ut whether this would work: never leave important
> decisions to the user! There are way too many irresponsible people out
> there.
Well, why don't we move all our communication directly to Facebook?
Social Media is the future, and Mailing Lists are a thing of the past.
The Linux kernel g
to be
conforming to it.
I pinned those ideas down above. Please let me know, how you would
approach it.
Cheers
FRIGN
PS: Researching this topic I stumbled upon this post[1].
A MkDirService? Seriously? Sometimes, I just feel sorry for the
Java-people.
[0]:
http://compgroups.net/co
plementation, there would be a whole lot of other
problems (just think about the poor fs-implementors).
Cheers
FRIGN
--
FRIGN
ion that does just that, whatever crazyness is needed to get to
> the super important sub nano-second user experience.
I rewrote the skript in C yesterday and we're discussing the design.
Cheers
FRIGN
--
FRIGN
er, but this got kind of lost in the process.
Now, Linux is often thought of to be the standard in the world of
UNIX-like operating system kernels. I'm glad it isn't.
For interoperatibility, I'm all for it!
Cheers
FRIGN
--
FRIGN
me, I better
ask now.
Cheers
FRIGN
--
FRIGN
Good evening,
as discussed earlier, I worked on the switch_root-tool and successfully
tested it with my initramfs-setup without problems.
Let me know what you think.
Cheers
FRIGN
--
FRIGN
>From e0608f4fe61aa70a270b0168790fdd6994c3e91e Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
From: FRIGN
Date: Mon, 14
, with switch_root ubase and sbase offer a great
toolbox for almost everything you would want to do with an initramfs.
Cheers
FRIGN
--
FRIGN
On Mon, 14 Apr 2014 09:49:04 +0100
Dimitris Papastamos wrote:
> A manpage for switch_root would be nice. For the style, have a look
> at the existing manpages in ubase.
I planned on writing a manpage today. I'll send in a patch once it's
finished.
Cheers
FRIGN
--
FRIGN
Hello,
as promised you can find the manpage for switch_root attached.
Cheers
FRIGN
--
FRIGN
>From cbda537178adeb75a488dd19fdb084757464271b Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
From: FRIGN
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2014 15:26:11 +0200
Subject: [PATCH] Add switch_root manpage
---
switch_root.1 |
On Mon, 14 Apr 2014 14:37:28 +0100
Dimitris Papastamos wrote:
> Renamed it from switch_root.1 to switch_root.8.
Thanks, I forgot about that!
--
FRIGN
Hello,
Seems like I neglected the Makefile while adding the switch_root
manpage.
This is now fixed.
Cheers
FRIGN
--
FRIGN
>From 9f879f375a8580c8d3796c08a3104605385d6930 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
From: FRIGN
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2014 16:11:38 +0200
Subject: [PATCH] Add switch_root.8 to
ubase, would it already be possible to run a
system on top of them or are there essential things which have not yet
been implemented?
Cheers
FRIGN
--
FRIGN
system
> [3] http://git.2f30.org/morpheus/ - the distro (basically config.mk
> for mkbuild + ports)
> [4] http://git.2f30.org/ports/ - our ports
Cool, this looks very clean!
Using aufs+namespaces to finally get rid of the PATH-madness is a great
idea. I'll stay tuned.
Cheers
FRIGN
--
FRIGN
skilled developers like OpenBSD to make OpenSSL suck less.
Imho, re-releasing it under OpenTLS would be a great idea!
What do you think about this "fork" finally getting rid of
"backwards-compatibility" and welcoming maintainable code and less bugs?
Cheers
FRIGN
[1]:
ppose you have strong reasons
to support this change and I'm really interested to find out in which
case this might be useful.
Imho, checking if the default color has been altered just invites nasty
edge-cases and generally bloats the code up unnecessarily. However, I'm
open for new ideas.
Cheers
FRIGN
--
FRIGN
o him afaik.
However, I think Markus just sketched the functionality in sh and
implied it to be implemented in C regardless.
Cheers
FRIGN
--
FRIGN
cies and other quirks.
I'm all for a directory named ideas/ including working
shell-scripts of design-ideas, which can then be implemented as
C-programs later on.
This would both encourage new concepts and keep the repo clean of
problematic shell-scripts.
Cheers
FRIGN
--
FRIGN
On Mon, 14 Apr 2014 12:51:25 +0100
Dimitris Papastamos wrote:
> Interesting, maybe we could mention this in the wiki page and/or README.
Good idea!
But on which wiki-page particularly?
Cheers
FRIGN
--
FRIGN
o the job anyway.
There are hundreds of ways this could fail in the process.
Cheers
FRIGN
--
FRIGN
do you think? Is there any shell to recommend as suckless or
do you like the idea of implementing it as a new project?
Cheers
FRIGN
[0]:
http://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/9699919799/utilities/V3_chap02.html#tag_18
[1]: http://git.busybox.net/busybox/tree/shell/
[2]: http://git.kernel.org/cgit/
#x27;ve never dreamed of hearing "suckless" and "Python" in the same
sentence, but I understand what you mean.
Refer to [0] for some pitfalls shared by our fellow Martin Kopta on his
blog[1].
[0]: http://mywiki.wooledge.org/BashPitfalls
[1]: http://martin.kopta.eu/blog/#2012-06-11-10-22-00
--
FRIGN
ring from namespace-inconcistency.
I understand that the developers prefer well-definedness over
backwards-support, but it definitely is not too much to ask for not
having code break after minor version upgrades.
I also don't like the idea of lambda-functions, but this depends on
personal taste.
ing direct user-input.
> And how does python not have scripting? Additionally, there are
> programs that compile python...You've got me at piping though.
Well, I don't think you've ever read what a Python-compiler spits out
at the end. You would be amazed!
Cheers
FRIGN
--
FRIGN
my default shell to rc to force myself to fully learn it
> sometime soon, but it seems like a pretty great environment.
Hey Nick,
I'll check it out!
Cheers
FRIGN
--
FRIGN
ng to group here. sizeof is not a function!
#define LEN(a) (sizeof a / sizeof *a)
is the right way to do it.
The length of an array is the size of the array divided by the length
of each element's type.
However, I don't see any error in the way it was done before noname
suggested changing it.
Cheers
FRIGN
--
FRIGN
in without saying anything
3) Somehow, all of your messages have been bouncing for me. I don't
know if this is coincidence or some error on my or the ml's behalf.
Cheers
FRIGN
--
FRIGN
On Sun, 20 Apr 2014 20:13:02 +0100
sin wrote:
> You are missing the parentheses there.
>
> Your macro provides the wrong answer for something like:
>
> int a[] = { 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 };
> printf("%zu\n", LEN(a + 2));
Ah, that's right!
Thanks for noting this.
Cheers
FRIGN
--
FRIGN
s) would still be useful
> for the floating and non tiling WMs cases.
After all, it's not the client's job!
Thus, this patch imho is unnecessary bloat for not much benefit.
Cheers
FRIGN
--
FRIGN
Is (One API for X, Wayland-compositors (by
choice), ...), and I'm not talking about fancy compositing, but just
basic ways of building and integrating user interfaces.
What do you think?
Cheers
FRIGN
--
FRIGN
which manages a backup of
xdg-open in /usr/bin/xdg-open_.
Thus you can easily test it out via make install and go back with make
uninstall.
You can find the full source-code in the git-repository[0], published
under the MIT/X Consortium License.
Please let me know what you think!
Cheers
FRIGN
[0]: https://github.com/FRIGN/soap
--
FRIGN
On Sun, 4 May 2014 18:52:25 +0800
Chris Down wrote:
> FRIGN writes:
> > A configuration can look like this:
> >
> > { "\.mp3","st -e mplayer %s" },
> > { "\.(jpg|png|tiff)$","feh %s"},
> > {
at my colleagues use, if
they can't get their act together and make the switch.
Now, maybe another example would be more suitable, like pressing a
YouTube-link in Gajim or w/e. You know what I mean ;).
Cheers
FRIGN
--
FRIGN
stance), this is perfectly safe.
The action-string in the config.h-rows never gets in touch with the raw
argv[1], but only with the safely escaped version of it.
Cheers
FRIGN
--
FRIGN
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