Re: on firmware (possible proposal)

2008-11-14 Thread Johannes Wiedersich
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Manoj Srivastava wrote: >> -- [Forward] - >> From: Sven Luther <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 21:01:13 +0100 > >> - code uploaded into another cpu (a device cpu, not a SMP cpu of

Re: For our own good: splitting the vote. Thoughts?

2008-11-14 Thread Neil McGovern
On Thu, Nov 13, 2008 at 01:23:42PM +0100, Robert Millan wrote: > On the contrary. It is excess of overlapping options that prompt for > strategic > voting. For example, if I don't care much between option A and option B, but > prefer either of them to option C So, your opinion would be ABC 112

Re: on firmware (possible proposal)

2008-11-14 Thread Stephen Gran
This one time, at band camp, Peter Palfrader said: > > | Firmware is data that is uploaded to hardware components, not designed to be > | run on the host CPU. Often this firmware is already required at install > time > | in order to use network or storage devices. > | > | Unfortunately such fir

Re: on firmware (possible proposal)

2008-11-14 Thread Frans Pop
Peter Palfrader wrote: > I'm considering formally proposing this GR (option): I'm certainly in favor of Debian going in this direction. Ideals are fine, but castrating the distribution for them is taking things to far. IMO we can still strife and work to have more source made available to the c

Re: on firmware (possible proposal)

2008-11-14 Thread Robert Millan
On Fri, Nov 14, 2008 at 12:29:20AM -0600, Manoj Srivastava wrote: > > - code uploaded into another cpu (a device cpu, not a SMP cpu of some > > kind) does not run in the same memory space, and can thus not impact > > the main software running on the host CPU. > > Impacting other

Re: For our own good: splitting the vote. Thoughts?

2008-11-14 Thread Robert Millan
On Fri, Nov 14, 2008 at 09:56:06AM +, Neil McGovern wrote: > On Thu, Nov 13, 2008 at 01:23:42PM +0100, Robert Millan wrote: > > On the contrary. It is excess of overlapping options that prompt for > > strategic > > voting. For example, if I don't care much between option A and option B, > >

Re: on firmware (possible proposal)

2008-11-14 Thread Peter Palfrader
On Fri, 14 Nov 2008, Frans Pop wrote: > > | Firmware is data that is uploaded to hardware components, not designed > > | to be run on the host CPU. Often this firmware is already required at > > | install time in order to use network or storage devices. > > "Firmware is data [...]" Firmware is

Re: on firmware (possible proposal)

2008-11-14 Thread Robert Millan
On Fri, Nov 14, 2008 at 04:56:38PM +0100, Peter Palfrader wrote: > > > > "Firmware is data [...]" > > Firmware is like porn, I know it when I see it. :) > > This isn't meant to be an exact definition, but more of a guideline. > That being said, if s/data/software/ makes you happy then we can do

Re: For our own good: splitting the vote. Thoughts?

2008-11-14 Thread Neil McGovern
On Fri, Nov 14, 2008 at 04:50:14PM +0100, Robert Millan wrote: > On Fri, Nov 14, 2008 at 09:56:06AM +, Neil McGovern wrote: > > On Thu, Nov 13, 2008 at 01:23:42PM +0100, Robert Millan wrote: > > > On the contrary. It is excess of overlapping options that prompt for > > > strategic > > > votin

Re: on firmware (possible proposal)

2008-11-14 Thread Johannes Wiedersich
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Robert Millan wrote: > May I suggest "so-called \"blobs\"" or some indication that "blob" is an > informal term? Informal like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binary_blob ? - From there it appears it is better described as 'binary blob' in order not to

Re: on firmware (possible proposal)

2008-11-14 Thread Ean Schuessler
- "Frans Pop" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I'm certainly in favor of Debian going in this direction. Ideals are fine, > but castrating the distribution for them is taking things to far. IMO we > can still strife and work to have more source made available to the > community without alienati

Re: on firmware (possible proposal)

2008-11-14 Thread Frans Pop
On Friday 14 November 2008, you wrote: > But you have to see that castrating the ideals of the project is just > as damaging as these distribution problems are. I believe Debian has > remained important over time because, despite our various social > failings, they *respect* our ideology. We remain

Re: on firmware (possible proposal)

2008-11-14 Thread Ean Schuessler
- "Frans Pop" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > And I believe that Debian is becoming increasingly marginal because users > are driven away to other distros. Sure, it is nice that a lot of those > users go to derived distros instead of "real" competitors, but IMO it is > still unhealthy if Debia

call for seconds: on firmware (was: on firmware (possible proposal))

2008-11-14 Thread Peter Palfrader
On Wed, 12 Nov 2008, Peter Palfrader wrote: > I so didn't want to get into this discussion, but here goes anyway. > > I'm considering formally proposing this GR (option): I'm hereby proposing the following general resolution: | Firmware is data such as microcode or lookup tables that is loaded

Re: call for seconds: on firmware (was: on firmware (possible proposal))

2008-11-14 Thread Holger Levsen
Hi, On Friday 14 November 2008 21:12, Peter Palfrader wrote: > I'm hereby proposing the following general resolution: > | Firmware is data such as microcode or lookup tables that is loaded into > | hardware components in order to make the component function properly. > | It is not code that is run

Re: call for seconds: on firmware

2008-11-14 Thread Colin Tuckley
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Peter Palfrader wrote: > I'm hereby proposing the following general resolution: > > | Firmware is data such as microcode or lookup tables that is loaded into > | hardware components in order to make the component function properly. > | It is not code

Re: call for seconds: on firmware (was: on firmware (possible proposal))

2008-11-14 Thread Frans Pop
Peter Palfrader wrote: > I'm hereby proposing the following general resolution: > > | Firmware is data such as microcode or lookup tables that is loaded into > | hardware components in order to make the component function properly. > | It is not code that is run on the host CPU. > | > | Unfortunat

Re: call for seconds: on firmware (was: on firmware (possible proposal))

2008-11-14 Thread Steve McIntyre
On Fri, Nov 14, 2008 at 09:12:25PM +0100, Peter Palfrader wrote: > >I'm hereby proposing the following general resolution: > >| Firmware is data such as microcode or lookup tables that is loaded into >| hardware components in order to make the component function properly. >| It is not code that is

Re: call for seconds: on firmware (was: on firmware (possible proposal))

2008-11-14 Thread Martin Michlmayr
* Peter Palfrader <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2008-11-14 21:12]: > I'm hereby proposing the following general resolution: > > | Firmware is data such as microcode or lookup tables that is loaded into > | hardware components in order to make the component function properly. > | It is not code that is run

Re: call for seconds: on firmware

2008-11-14 Thread Russ Allbery
Peter Palfrader <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > I'm hereby proposing the following general resolution: > > | Firmware is data such as microcode or lookup tables that is loaded into > | hardware components in order to make the component function properly. > | It is not code that is run on the host CP

Re: call for seconds: on firmware (was: on firmware (possible proposal))

2008-11-14 Thread Mark Hymers
On Fri, 14, Nov, 2008 at 09:12:25PM +0100, Peter Palfrader spoke thus.. > I'm hereby proposing the following general resolution: > > | Firmware is data such as microcode or lookup tables that is loaded into > | hardware components in order to make the component function properly. > | It is not cod

Re: call for seconds: on firmware

2008-11-14 Thread Ben Finney
Peter Palfrader <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > I'm hereby proposing the following general resolution: > > | Firmware is data such as microcode or lookup tables that is loaded > | into hardware components in order to make the component function > | properly. It is not code that is run on the host C

Re: call for seconds: on firmware

2008-11-14 Thread Ben Pfaff
Peter Palfrader <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > I'm hereby proposing the following general resolution: > > | Firmware is data such as microcode or lookup tables that is loaded into > | hardware components in order to make the component function properly. > | It is not code that is run on the host CP

Re: call for seconds: on firmware

2008-11-14 Thread Alexander Reichle-Schmehl
Peter Palfrader schrieb: > I'm hereby proposing the following general resolution: > > | Firmware is data such as microcode or lookup tables that is loaded into > | hardware components in order to make the component function properly. > | It is not code that is run on the host CPU. > | > | Unfortun

Re: call for seconds: on firmware (was: on firmware (possible proposal))

2008-11-14 Thread Moritz Muehlenhoff
In gmane.linux.debian.devel.vote, Peter Palfrader wrote: > > I'm hereby proposing the following general resolution: > >| Firmware is data such as microcode or lookup tables that is loaded into >| hardware components in order to make the component function properly. >| It is not code that is run on

Re: call for seconds: on firmware

2008-11-14 Thread Bernd Zeimetz
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 > I'm hereby proposing the following general resolution: > > | Firmware is data such as microcode or lookup tables that is loaded into > | hardware components in order to make the component function properly. > | It is not code that is run on the hos

Re: call for seconds: on firmware

2008-11-14 Thread Cyril Brulebois
Peter Palfrader <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> (14/11/2008): > I'm hereby proposing the following general resolution: > > | Firmware is data such as microcode or lookup tables that is loaded into > | hardware components in order to make the component function properly. > | It is not code that is run on the h

Re: call for seconds: on firmware (was: on firmware (possible proposal))

2008-11-14 Thread Charles Plessy
Le Fri, Nov 14, 2008 at 09:12:25PM +0100, Peter Palfrader a écrit : > > I'm hereby proposing the following general resolution: > > | Firmware is data such as microcode or lookup tables that is loaded into > | hardware components in order to make the component function properly. > | It is not code

Re: call for seconds: on firmware (was: on firmware (possible proposal))

2008-11-14 Thread Ean Schuessler
- "Charles Plessy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > can the secretaries state whether it is a supermajority option or > not? > > If yes, how will we deal with it after it is voted? The GR will not be a > foundation document but will rule over one. It will be hidden between many > other GRs, which

Re: call for seconds: on firmware

2008-11-14 Thread Manoj Srivastava
On Fri, Nov 14 2008, Charles Plessy wrote: > Le Fri, Nov 14, 2008 at 09:12:25PM +0100, Peter Palfrader a écrit : >> >> I'm hereby proposing the following general resolution: >> >> | Firmware is data such as microcode or lookup tables that is loaded into >> | hardware components in order to make