Manoj Srivastava <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> The draft ballot for this vote is appended. Please note that this is a
> draft ballot, voting has not yet started.
Will this vote have secret ballots?
--
,''`.
: :' :Romain Francoise <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
`. `' http://people.debia
On Wed, Oct 04, 2006 at 09:03:10PM -0700, Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote:
> Anthony Towns writes:
> > I believe that distributing firmware written in chunks of hex is in
> > compliance with the GPL, and repetition of your arguments isn't going
> > to change that belief.
> Do you really think that the G
On Wed, Oct 04, 2006 at 10:49:35AM +0200, Sven Luther wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 04, 2006 at 06:12:38PM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote:
> > On Tue, Oct 03, 2006 at 07:20:35PM +0200, Sven Luther wrote:
> > > Anthony, this is bullshit.
> > Sven, if the GPL prohibits us from distributing the code, we (which is
On Thu, Oct 05, 2006 at 05:04:32PM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 04, 2006 at 10:49:35AM +0200, Sven Luther wrote:
> > On Wed, Oct 04, 2006 at 06:12:38PM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote:
> > > On Tue, Oct 03, 2006 at 07:20:35PM +0200, Sven Luther wrote:
> > > > Anthony, this is bullshit.
> >
On Thu, Oct 05, 2006 at 04:55:48PM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 04, 2006 at 09:03:10PM -0700, Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote:
> > Anthony Towns writes:
> > > I believe that distributing firmware written in chunks of hex is in
> > > compliance with the GPL, and repetition of your arguments
On Thu, Oct 05, 2006 at 10:08:40AM +0200, Sven Luther wrote:
> Indeed, so we need to strip those GPLed firmwares ?
I'm not going to repeat myself on that again.
> > I don't think it's worth further delaying this vote to include this
> Anthony, this is a strong breach of thrust. When you asked me
On Thu, Oct 05, 2006 at 06:28:55PM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 05, 2006 at 10:08:40AM +0200, Sven Luther wrote:
> > Indeed, so we need to strip those GPLed firmwares ?
>
> I'm not going to repeat myself on that again.
>
> > > I don't think it's worth further delaying this vote to i
Hi,
first of all, I wonder why so few people from the teams involved take
part in this discussion. I assume one reason might be that they prefer
IRC. However, debian-vote is the list that's supposed to hold the
important information for the vote, isn't it?
Anthony Towns wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 0
This one time, at band camp, Romain Francoise said:
> Manoj Srivastava <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > The draft ballot for this vote is appended. Please note that this is a
> > draft ballot, voting has not yet started.
>
> Will this vote have secret ballots?
The constitution doesn't say it ha
On 10/5/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Frank -
> So the real question is whether we want to do that, whether in the
> particular cases there's in fact any doubt, etc.
In making the list, I left off all cases where I had any doubt.
I am not perfect, but I have plenty of experien
Hi,
The draft ballot for this vote is appended. Please note that
this is a draft ballot, voting has not yet started. For operational
reasons, I have decided to start and end the vote in the middle of the
weekend (I am not able to guarantee being able to meet a schedule
during the
Hi,
On Thu, 05 Oct 2006 09:02:22 +0200, Romain Francoise <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
> Manoj Srivastava <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>> The draft ballot for this vote is appended. Please note that this
>> is a draft ballot, voting has not yet started.
> Will this vote have secret ballots?
On Thu, 5 Oct 2006 14:57:33 +0300, Markus Laire <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
> Hopefully (but I doubt this) someone in Debian will get sued for
> this violation in Etch, to stop such a behaviour in the future.
Nice. But the only one who can sue is the person whose
copytright we are violati
On Thu, Oct 05, 2006 at 08:29:23AM -0500, Manoj Srivastava wrote:
> On Thu, 5 Oct 2006 14:57:33 +0300, Markus Laire <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
>
> > Hopefully (but I doubt this) someone in Debian will get sued for
> > this violation in Etch, to stop such a behaviour in the future.
>
> Nic
On Thursday 05 October 2006 11:43, Frank Küster wrote:
> first of all, I wonder why so few people from the teams involved take
> part in this discussion. I assume one reason might be that they prefer
> IRC. However, debian-vote is the list that's supposed to hold the
> important information for t
Frans Pop <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Thursday 05 October 2006 11:43, Frank Küster wrote:
>> first of all, I wonder why so few people from the teams involved take
>> part in this discussion. I assume one reason might be that they prefer
>> IRC. However, debian-vote is the list that's suppose
Hi list masters and DPL,
Since it seems Frans is not able to leave ad-hominem attacks out of this
discussion, and given the precedent of my ban from -release on similar issues,
i now officially ask for Frans Pop to be banned from debian-vote, until such a
time as he is able to discuss issues, with
Sven Luther wrote:
> Hi list masters and DPL,
Hi Sven
> Since it seems Frans is not able to leave ad-hominem attacks out of this
> discussion, and given the precedent of my ban from -release on similar issues,
> i now officially ask for Frans Pop to be banned from debian-vote, until such a
> time
On Thu, Oct 05, 2006 at 06:45:05PM +0200, Luk Claes wrote:
> Sven Luther wrote:
> > Hi list masters and DPL,
>
> Hi Sven
>
> > Since it seems Frans is not able to leave ad-hominem attacks out of this
> > discussion, and given the precedent of my ban from -release on similar
> > issues,
> > i now
On Sat, Sep 30, 2006 at 06:05:28PM -0500, Debian Project Secretary wrote:
> - - -=-=-=-=-=- Don't Delete Anything Between These Lines =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
> 22fc4edd-1f6c-454f-b204-6aa0bad0ce1d
> [ ] Choice 1: DFSG #2 applies to all programmatic works
> [ ] Choice 2: Further discussion
> - - -=-=-=
Sven Luther wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 05, 2006 at 06:45:05PM +0200, Luk Claes wrote:
>> Sven Luther wrote:
>>> Hi list masters and DPL,
>> Hi Sven
>>
>>> Since it seems Frans is not able to leave ad-hominem attacks out of this
>>> discussion, and given the precedent of my ban from -release on similar
>
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
=== START OF PROPOSAL ===
Given the difficulty of finding a common ground about the non-free firmware
issue, the Debian Project does resolve that :
1) We allow inclusion in Debian Etch of all firmwares currently shipped in
the upstream linux kerne
On Thu, Oct 05, 2006 at 08:55:50PM +0200, Luk Claes wrote:
> Sven Luther wrote:
> > On Thu, Oct 05, 2006 at 06:45:05PM +0200, Luk Claes wrote:
> >> Sven Luther wrote:
> >>> Hi list masters and DPL,
> >> Hi Sven
> >>
> >>> Since it seems Frans is not able to leave ad-hominem attacks out of this
> >>
I second the following proposal:
On Thu, Oct 05, 2006 at 09:04:06PM +0200, Sven Luther wrote:
> === START OF PROPOSAL ===
> Given the difficulty of finding a common ground about the non-free firmware
> issue, the Debian Project does resolve that :
>
> 1) We allow inclusion in Debian Etch of all
> Just for information.
>
> This is a no-op vote, since we either reafirm the current status quo
> (already re-afirmed previous to the sarge release), or further
> discuss the issue, but in all cases, nothing will prevent further
> discussion at a later time, and indeed our DPL has already said he
I hereby propose the below amendment, to the original proposal, so both will
appear on the ballot if enough seconds are reached.
Friendly,
Sven Luther
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
=== START OF PROPOSAL ===
Given the difficulty of finding a common ground about the non-free firmwa
Err,
I didn't want to join this ugly subthread. But I do.
Sven has earned quite some points in this list for trying to argue to
the point. No matter whether he was wrong (nobody has really shown
that?). Now his whining and the post to d-d-a has nearly emptied his
account. However...
Luk Cla
On Thu, Oct 05, 2006 at 09:12:27PM +0200, Sven Luther wrote:
> What do i care if he thrusts me, he is difaming me in public, and making
> degrading comments against me.
>
Would you like to point out exactly what in Message-id:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> is deflamatory towards you?
I see nothing. It doe
Hi,
this is at least clearly worded, unambiguous, and if it succeeds will
allow to release etch without delay (at least without delay because of
firmware problems).
Sven Luther <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> === START OF PROPOSAL ===
> Given the difficulty of finding a common ground about the non-
On Wed, Oct 04, 2006 at 10:28:20AM +0200, Sven Luther wrote:
> There is some claims that some of those blobs represent just register dumps,
This is a strawman, and Sven knows this as I have told him quite plainly
that this is not my claim.
> So, the RMs are making claims that those sourceless GP
On Thu, Oct 05, 2006 at 05:04:32PM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote:
> I don't think it's worth further delaying this vote to include this
> position statement; as per [0] the minimum discussion period for Manoj's
> amendment as accepted by Frederik [1] ended 4th Oct 2006 19:53:58 UTC,
> which is about 1
On Thu, Oct 05, 2006 at 08:19:16AM -0500, Manoj Srivastava wrote:
> Hi,
> On Thu, 05 Oct 2006 09:02:22 +0200, Romain Francoise <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> said:
>
> > Manoj Srivastava <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> >> The draft ballot for this vote is appended. Please note that this
> >> is a draft bal
On Thu, 5 Oct 2006 17:04:32 +1000, Anthony Towns said:
> I don't think it's worth further delaying this vote to include this
> position statement; as per [0] the minimum discussion period for
> Manoj's amendment as accepted by Frederik [1] ended 4th Oct 2006
> 19:53:58 UTC, which is about 11 ho
On Thu, Oct 05, 2006 at 09:24:34PM +0200, Pierre Habouzit wrote:
> > Just for information.
> >
> > This is a no-op vote, since we either reafirm the current status quo
> > (already re-afirmed previous to the sarge release), or further
> > discuss the issue, but in all cases, nothing will prevent fu
On Thu, Oct 05, 2006 at 07:09:53AM -0700, Steve Langasek wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 04, 2006 at 10:28:20AM +0200, Sven Luther wrote:
>
> > There is some claims that some of those blobs represent just register dumps,
>
> This is a strawman, and Sven knows this as I have told him quite plainly
> that thi
Steve Langasek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The *relevant* claim I have made is that it is
> inappropriate to use our GR mechanism to attempt to *decide* whether GPLed
> drivers cause a distribution problem. The release team, the ftp team, and I
> suspect even most of the kernel team have no inte
On Thu, Oct 05, 2006 at 05:19:55PM +0200, Frank Küster wrote:
> > The current discussion in no way helps
> > the release of Etch.
> Why not *name* the drivers that get an exception? This way, anybody who
> *really* can contribute more than general doubt has to do it now, before
> the vote.
The
I second the proposal.
On Thu, Oct 05, 2006 at 09:04:06PM +0200, Sven Luther wrote:
> === START OF PROPOSAL ===
> Given the difficulty of finding a common ground about the non-free firmware
> issue, the Debian Project does resolve that :
>
> 1) We allow inclusion in Debian Etch of all firmwares
On Thu, Oct 05, 2006 at 02:41:40PM -0500, Manoj Srivastava wrote:
> On Thu, 5 Oct 2006 17:04:32 +1000, Anthony Towns
> said:
>
> > I don't think it's worth further delaying this vote to include this
> > position statement; as per [0] the minimum discussion period for
> > Manoj's amendment as a
On Thu, Oct 05, 2006 at 09:04:06PM +0200, Sven Luther wrote:
> === START OF PROPOSAL ===
> Given the difficulty of finding a common ground about the non-free firmware
> issue, the Debian Project does resolve that :
>
> 1) We allow inclusion in Debian Etch of all firmwares currently shipped in
>
On Thu, Oct 05, 2006 at 09:28:13PM +0100, Neil McGovern wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 05, 2006 at 09:04:06PM +0200, Sven Luther wrote:
> > === START OF PROPOSAL ===
> > Given the difficulty of finding a common ground about the non-free firmware
> > issue, the Debian Project does resolve that :
> >
> > 1)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
=== START OF PROPOSAL ===
The debian project resolves that :
1) We recognizes that there are many uncleared issues with the
current binary firmware files in linux kernel.
2) We will not ship a kernel package with such problematic licensing issu
Hello,
for the sake of completeness in the ballot, and having 4 options from
"release with all firmwares" to "delay the release", I hereby second
this proosal.
> === START OF PROPOSAL ===
> The debian project resolves that :
>
> 1) We recognizes that there are many uncleared issues with the
>
On Thu, Oct 05, 2006 at 11:07:20PM +0200, Frederik Schueler wrote:
> > === START OF PROPOSAL ===
> > The debian project resolves that :
> >
> > 1) We recognizes that there are many uncleared issues with the
> > current binary firmware files in linux kernel.
> >
> > 2) We will not ship a ker
Manoj Srivastava <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> On Thu, 5 Oct 2006 14:57:33 +0300, Markus Laire <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
> > Hopefully (but I doubt this) someone in Debian will get sued for
> > this violation in Etch, to stop such a behaviour in the future.
>
> Nice. But the only one who can sue
Anthony Towns wrote:
> Frederik's proposal as amended by Manoj has been seconded by:
[...]
> MJ Ray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
That is not a second of Frederik's proposal. Does it still count?
--
MJR/slef
My Opinion Only: see http://people.debian.org/~mjr/
Please follow http://www.uk.debian.org/M
On Thu, Oct 05, 2006 at 06:45:05PM +0200, Luk Claes wrote:
> The reason why you were banned from debian-release was mostly because of
> turning it in a discussion list which it is not intended for.
It was rather because someone has an urge to feel power flowing through
their body by banning somebo
On Thursday 05 October 2006 17:19, Frank Küster wrote:
> I can understand that. However, I'd rather have that discussion before
> the GR than after it, when it turns out that people do *not* agree about
> the meaning of it...
Sure. However it makes no sense having a discussion about individual
On Fri, 06 Oct 2006, Frans Pop wrote:
> My, just as amateurish, standpoint is: the preferred from of
> modification of code for firmware blobs included in a driver that is
> otherwise coded in C (or assembler or whatnot) - and for that matter
> for images, video and even documentation - is whatever
On Friday 06 October 2006 02:46, Don Armstrong wrote:
> If you have specific questions about what the GPL says and means,
> please contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] to clarify it before putting the
> archive in a position which is legally hazardous.
Right, which was exactly my point: this discussion does
On Friday 06 October 2006 02:46, Don Armstrong wrote:
> This is not the case. A trivial counter example is the distribution of
> a binary object which is statically linked to (or otherwise in
> combination forms a derivative work of) a GPLed codebase, where the
> copyright holder of the binary obje
Sven Luther <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi debian-legal, ...
I've trimmed -release, as luk suggested it's unwelcome there.
> [...] The real problem is that there are a certain
> amount of firmware in the kernel, embedded in the drivers, which have no
> license notice whatsoever, and as thus fall
On Thu, Oct 05, 2006 at 02:57:33PM +0300, Markus Laire wrote:
> Hopefully (but I doubt this) someone in Debian will get sued for this
> violation in Etch, to stop such a behaviour in the future.
You do realise we're going to voluntarily stop it immediately after
releasing etch anyway, right?
Chee
On Thu, Oct 05, 2006 at 11:05:57AM +0200, Sven Luther wrote:
> > > 5. We further note that some of these firmware do not have proper
> > > license,
> Ah, no, i forgot to change this to what Manoj suggested this morning :
> We further note that some of these firmware do not have individual lice
On Thu, Oct 05, 2006 at 07:09:05PM +0100, MJ Ray wrote:
> Anthony Towns wrote:
> > Frederik's proposal as amended by Manoj has been seconded by:
> [...]
> > MJ Ray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> That is not a second of Frederik's proposal. Does it still count?
It's a second of the proposal *as amende
On Thu, Oct 05, 2006 at 06:26:01PM +0200, Sven Luther wrote:
> i now officially ask for Frans Pop to be banned from debian-vote,
As per 4.2(5) of the constitution, it's required that any developer
may post to the list designated for proposals, sponsors, amendments,
calls for votes and other forma
On Thu, 05 Oct 2006, Manoj Srivastava wrote:
> On Thu, 5 Oct 2006 17:04:32 +1000, Anthony Towns
> said:
> > I don't think it's worth further delaying this vote to include this
> > position statement; as per [0] the minimum discussion period for
> > Manoj's amendment as accepted by Frederik [1] e
On Fri, Oct 06, 2006 at 12:28:38AM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 05, 2006 at 11:05:57AM +0200, Sven Luther wrote:
> > > > 5. We further note that some of these firmware do not have proper
> > > > license,
> > Ah, no, i forgot to change this to what Manoj suggested this morning :
> >
Hi,
With the vote being called, here is a draft ballot for the
firmware vote. The voting period has not yet started.
manoj
Voting period starts 00:00:01 UTC on Sunday,8th October 2006
Votes must be received by 23:59:59 UTC on Saturday, 14th October 2006
The f
On Fri, Oct 06, 2006 at 02:23:17AM +0200, Frans Pop wrote:
> Sorry, my comments were general and aimed at several persons participating
> in the discussion. (Though it would be foolish to deny that Sven was one of
> them. And it is also no secret that I find Sven's total domination (as
> evidenc
On Fri, Oct 06, 2006 at 12:27:04PM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 05, 2006 at 06:26:01PM +0200, Sven Luther wrote:
> > i now officially ask for Frans Pop to be banned from debian-vote,
>
> As per 4.2(5) of the constitution, it's required that any developer
> may post to the list design
On Thu, Oct 05, 2006 at 11:28:28PM -0500, Manoj Srivastava wrote:
> Hi,
>
> With the vote being called, here is a draft ballot for the
> firmware vote. The voting period has not yet started.
Manoj, if you don't stop this manipulation now, i am going to ask for your
recall as secretary, n
Sven Luther <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> List masters, this is evidence that Frans is not going to stop this, and as i
> asked yesterday, i now re-iterate the demand for his ban from debian-vote.
Come on, calm down. That one was neither insulting nor attacking.
Regards, Frank
--
Frank Küster
Frank Küster <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> this is at least clearly worded, unambiguous, and if it succeeds will
> allow to release etch without delay (at least without delay because of
> firmware problems).
It seems this is not true (qlogic), and still might be "interpreted",
namely as tr
On Fri, Oct 06, 2006 at 07:50:49AM +0200, Frank Küster wrote:
> Sven Luther <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > List masters, this is evidence that Frans is not going to stop this, and as
> > i
> > asked yesterday, i now re-iterate the demand for his ban from debian-vote.
>
> Come on, calm down. T
On Fri, Oct 06, 2006 at 07:58:24AM +0200, Frank Küster wrote:
> Frank Küster <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > this is at least clearly worded, unambiguous, and if it succeeds will
> > allow to release etch without delay (at least without delay because of
> > firmware problems).
>
> It
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