On Tue, Aug 29, 2006 at 09:28:56AM +0200, Mike Hommey wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 29, 2006 at 12:47:42AM +0200, Sven Luther <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> > On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 03:25:05PM -0700, Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote:
> > > Sven Luther <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > >
> > > > The idea is that t
On Tue, Aug 29, 2006 at 12:47:42AM +0200, Sven Luther <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 28, 2006 at 03:25:05PM -0700, Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote:
> > Sven Luther <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> >
> > > The idea is that the firmware is all the software and other softwarish
> > > information whi
Josselin Mouette <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I propose the following amendment to Steve's proposal.
[...]
> 4. determines that as a special exception to DFSG #2, the source code
> for device firmwares contained in the kernel packages will not be
> required as long as there are no other tech
On Sat, 26 Aug 2006, Josselin Mouette wrote:
> > 3. supports the decision of the Release Team to require works such
> > as
> > images, video, and fonts to be licensed in compliance with the DFSG without
> > requiring source code for these works under DFSG #2; and
>
> 4. determines t
On Sat, Aug 26, 2006 at 11:37:20AM +0200, Josselin Mouette wrote:
> I propose the following amendment to Steve's proposal.
>
> > THE DEBIAN PROJECT therefore,
> >
> > 1. reaffirms its dedication to providing a 100% free system to our
> > users according to our Social Contract and the DFSG
On Sat, Aug 26, 2006 at 11:37:20AM +0200, Josselin Mouette wrote:
> I propose the following amendment to Steve's proposal.
>
> > THE DEBIAN PROJECT therefore,
> >
> > 1. reaffirms its dedication to providing a 100% free system to our
> > users according to our Social Contract and the DFSG
On Wed, Aug 23, 2006 at 08:03:39PM +0100, Mark Brown wrote:
> Within a Debian context people normally seem to use the term "firmware"
> to mean any binary blob that gets programmed into hardware. This could
> include things like register settings or FPGA images as well as programs
> to execute on
On Sat, Aug 26, 2006 at 11:37:20AM +0200, Josselin Mouette wrote:
> I propose the following amendment to Steve's proposal.
>
> > THE DEBIAN PROJECT therefore,
> >
> > 1. reaffirms its dedication to providing a 100% free system to our
> > users according to our Social Contract and the DFSG
On Tue, Aug 29, 2006 at 11:00:44PM +1000, Hamish Moffatt wrote:
> To those who consider ROM-less hardware cheap and nasty I suggest the
> opposite is true. I design hardware (FPGAs) professionally for expensive
> communications equipment. We avoid ROMs as much as possible, because
> they are diffi
Thomas Bushnell BSG <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Steve Langasek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
>> 4. determines that for the purposes of DFSG #2, device firmware
>> shall also not be considered a program.
>
> I am bothered that there is never a definition of "firmware" here.
Please note
On Tue, Aug 29, 2006 at 03:54:13PM +0200, Reinhard Tartler wrote:
> Thomas Bushnell BSG <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > Steve Langasek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> >
> >> 4. determines that for the purposes of DFSG #2, device firmware
> >> shall also not be considered a program.
> >
> >
Sven Luther <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>> Please note in this subthread, that Steve ist talking about ``device
>> firmware'', whereas this subthread is talking about ``firmware'' in general.
>
> And note how the line blurs when you consider a peripheral firmware which is
> using the same set of c
On Tue, Aug 29, 2006 at 04:50:45PM +0200, Reinhard Tartler wrote:
> Sven Luther <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> >> Please note in this subthread, that Steve ist talking about ``device
> >> firmware'', whereas this subthread is talking about ``firmware'' in
> >> general.
> >
> > And note how the l
Sven Luther <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Let's say i have a wireless chip, which includes a pci interface which can be
> either host or device, a wireless interface to some antenas, an arm core, some
> ram and flash.
>
> [explanations snipped]
>
> This is not a 100% real example, since i am not
On Tue, Aug 29, 2006 at 05:49:47PM +0200, Reinhard Tartler wrote:
> Sven Luther <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > Let's say i have a wireless chip, which includes a pci interface which can
> > be
> > either host or device, a wireless interface to some antenas, an arm core,
> > some
> > ram and f
Aurelien Jarno wrote:
> Not also that I found sad that the DPL try to kill this GR with his
> latest mail to debian-announce. The problem is known for a long time.
How does posting straw polls of our users and developers to d-d-a manage
to look to you like an attempt to stop this GR?
> If he wa
Steve Langasek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> If it's the latter, I maintain that this is precisely the subject matter of
> the proposed GR; we obviously *don't* have agreement in Debian over what
> should or should not be considered a "program", so I think that's begging
> the question.
However,
Sven Luther <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>> relevant part is this:
>>
>> >>4. determines that for the purposes of DFSG #2, device
>> >> firmware shall also not be considered a program.
>>
>> I as non native speaker understand that as this: [...]
>
> Yeah, but then way not say it clearly,
Le mardi 29 août 2006 à 14:15 -0400, Joey Hess a écrit :
> > If he wanted to help, it should have been done that before, not a 3
> > months before the announced date of the release. And also not while
> > proposals are beeing discussed. He just want to be awarded because he
> > found a solution t
On Tue, Aug 29, 2006 at 03:07:11PM +0200, Sven Luther wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 29, 2006 at 11:00:44PM +1000, Hamish Moffatt wrote:
> > To those who consider ROM-less hardware cheap and nasty I suggest the
> > opposite is true. I design hardware (FPGAs) professionally for expensive
> > communications
On Tue, Aug 29, 2006 at 10:07:55PM +0100, Mark Brown wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 29, 2006 at 03:07:11PM +0200, Sven Luther wrote:
> > On Tue, Aug 29, 2006 at 11:00:44PM +1000, Hamish Moffatt wrote:
>
> > > To those who consider ROM-less hardware cheap and nasty I suggest the
> > > opposite is true. I des
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Michael Poole wrote:
I'm not going to argue with your previous points, which are all
basically accurate.
> Related to (a), current programmable hardware cannot run *any* CPU at
> speeds that most users would accept for desktop use. However, solving
Ron Johnson wrote:
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>
> Luk Claes wrote:
>> -=-=-=-=-=- Don't Delete Anything Between These Lines =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
>> 6c557439-9c21-4eec-ad6c-e6384fab56a8
>> [ 1 ] Choice 1: Release etch on time
>> [ 3 ] Choice 2: Do not ship sourceless firmware in
On Tue, Aug 29, 2006 at 08:48:00PM -0400, Nathanael Nerode wrote:
> Debian needs to make a decision on how it will deal with this legal
> minefield. That is higher priority than the entire discussion going on
> right now, because it determines whether Debian will distribute these 53
> BLOBs *at a
On Tue, Aug 29, 2006 at 07:17:47PM -0700, Steve Langasek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 29, 2006 at 08:48:00PM -0400, Nathanael Nerode wrote:
>
> > Debian needs to make a decision on how it will deal with this legal
> > minefield. That is higher priority than the entire discussion goin
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