On Fri, Feb 25, 2005 at 09:07:37PM +1300, Nick Phillips wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 23, 2005 at 03:08:52PM +, MJ Ray wrote:
>
> > It would help if SPI announced its board meeting dates more widely.
>
> Good point; it would probably be a good idea to announce them on d-d-a.
I would be happy to do th
On Wed, Feb 23, 2005 at 03:08:52PM +, MJ Ray wrote:
> It would help if SPI announced its board meeting dates more widely.
Good point; it would probably be a good idea to announce them on d-d-a.
Cheers,
Nick
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On Thu, Feb 24, 2005 at 10:52:50AM -0800, Steve Langasek wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 23, 2005 at 08:55:30PM -0600, Ean Schuessler wrote:
> > On Wednesday 23 February 2005 7:09 pm, Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote:
> > > Where has he been "rallying support"? Where is he an announced candidate?
>
> > http://wiki
On Thu, Feb 24, 2005 at 06:23:14PM -0600, Ean Schuessler wrote:
> For it to be slander I would have to be lying.
Right, the proper term for this is "smear campaign". Like when one of
the political parties here put out adverts showing Blair's photograph,
modified to add glowing eyes and horns.
--
For it to be slander I would have to be lying.
How would you cope with a genuine slander campaign if I was conducting one? Am
I lying? How do you know? What resources can you use?
Will one of you prove that I am lying or do you just prefer to go on your
instincts? Moreover, lying aside, do you
On Thu, Feb 24, 2005 at 03:51:52PM -0600, Ean Schuessler wrote:
> On Thursday 24 February 2005 12:52 pm, Steve Langasek wrote:
> > That wiki page was not created by Branden, it was created by people who
> > think Branden should run. Branden's only message to debian-vote this month
> > has been to
On Thursday 24 February 2005 12:52 pm, Steve Langasek wrote:
> That wiki page was not created by Branden, it was created by people who
> think Branden should run. Branden's only message to debian-vote this month
> has been to explain the conditions under which he would run for DPL again,
> in dire
On Wed, Feb 23, 2005 at 08:55:30PM -0600, Ean Schuessler wrote:
> On Wednesday 23 February 2005 7:09 pm, Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote:
> > Where has he been "rallying support"? Where is he an announced candidate?
> http://wiki.debian.net/?DraftBranden
That wiki page was not created by Branden, it w
On Thursday 24 February 2005 5:48 am, MJ Ray wrote:
> Can you add references for some of the claims? It's hard for anyone
> to take that page and run with it. Also, not setting a white background
> would make it easier to read.
I can. I'll fill it in.
> Do you have any response to the claim that
On Wednesday 23 February 2005 10:30 pm, John Goerzen wrote:
> I looked at your wiki page. The only items that look relevant going
> forth are "I outlined next steps to correct procedures going forward"
> and "Checks are now once again being processed by volunteers in two
> assorted places with no
Ean Schuessler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> As a service to mailservers everywhere I'll put up a permanent page outlining
> my complaints:
> http://www.eanschuessler.com/wiki/Wiki.jsp?page=SPIAccounting
Can you add references for some of the claims? It's hard for anyone
to take that page and run
On Wed, Feb 23, 2005 at 09:41:05PM -0600, Ean Schuessler wrote:
> On Wednesday 23 February 2005 9:05 pm, MJ Ray wrote:
> As a service to mailservers everywhere I'll put up a permanent page outlining
> my complaints:
>
> http://www.eanschuessler.com/wiki/Wiki.jsp?page=SPIAccounting
[ snip ]
> Op
On Wednesday 23 February 2005 9:05 pm, MJ Ray wrote:
> Huh? If you cleared up the accounting problems, why did you come into
> this thread claiming that there are accounting problems? Did SPI undo
> all the process changes you put in place in another week or two?
As a service to mailservers everyw
Ean Schuessler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: [...]
> As I've said, I can be combative, irrational and mean tempered. At the same
> time, I was able to get a few years of accounting problems cleared up in a
> week or two. [...]
Huh? If you cleared up the accounting problems, why did you come into
th
On Wednesday 23 February 2005 7:09 pm, Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote:
> Where has he been "rallying support"? Where is he an announced candidate?
http://wiki.debian.net/?DraftBranden
> What you have stated are not the facts. Are you afraid to bring them
> up on the SPI mailing lists where they belo
> Please take this off debian-vote. [...]
Please stop cc'ing me on list, at least. I read debian-vote.
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Ean Schuessler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> I will continue to respond to inquiries on this topic on Debian
> -vote. You have expressed your opinion that this is off topic for
> vote. Since Branden is running for DPL (or has, at least, begun
> rallying support) and since the topic of discussion i
I will continue to respond to inquiries on this topic on Debian -vote. You
have expressed your opinion that this is off topic for vote. Since Branden is
running for DPL (or has, at least, begun rallying support) and since the
topic of discussion is his success as an officer of SPI, I modestly su
Please take this off debian-vote. It is not on-topic here and belongs
elsewhere.
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On Wednesday 23 February 2005 7:07 am, MJ Ray wrote:
> I doubt anyone would take a "yes" here now, quite rightly. We
> need to watch and decide for ourselves.
Hey. I agree.
> No and I think you've demonstrated why not very well. I would
> hope that there are laws against presidents doing that, bu
On Wed, Feb 23, 2005 at 09:36:38AM -0600, John Goerzen wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 23, 2005 at 04:17:19PM +0100, Sven Luther wrote:
> > On Wed, Feb 23, 2005 at 08:26:00AM -0600, John Goerzen wrote:
> > > Ean is right that Debian needs to be more active with SPI. I wish many
> > > more Debian developers w
On Wed, Feb 23, 2005 at 04:17:19PM +0100, Sven Luther wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 23, 2005 at 08:26:00AM -0600, John Goerzen wrote:
> > Ean is right that Debian needs to be more active with SPI. I wish many
> > more Debian developers were actively watching SPI. Every Debian
> > developer is entitled to
On Wed, Feb 23, 2005 at 08:26:00AM -0600, John Goerzen wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 23, 2005 at 01:07:16PM +, MJ Ray wrote:
> > Ean Schuessler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > [...] Ultimately the question still stands, have
> > > operations been repaired?
> >
> > I doubt anyone would take a "yes" he
On Wed, Feb 23, 2005 at 03:08:52PM +, MJ Ray wrote:
> John Goerzen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Ean is right that Debian needs to be more active with SPI. I wish many
> > more Debian developers were actively watching SPI.
>
> It would help if SPI announced its board meeting dates more widel
John Goerzen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Ean is right that Debian needs to be more active with SPI. I wish many
> more Debian developers were actively watching SPI.
It would help if SPI announced its board meeting dates more widely.
For example, I just looked for the next meeting date. I looke
On Wed, Feb 23, 2005 at 01:07:16PM +, MJ Ray wrote:
> Ean Schuessler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > [...] Ultimately the question still stands, have
> > operations been repaired?
>
> I doubt anyone would take a "yes" here now, quite rightly. We
> need to watch and decide for ourselves.
Ean i
Ean Schuessler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> [...] Ultimately the question still stands, have
> operations been repaired?
I doubt anyone would take a "yes" here now, quite rightly. We
need to watch and decide for ourselves.
> Would it have been better to let me execute a rapid
> and forceful reo
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>> Branden, and the SPI board, need to stop side stepping issues.
>Why are you discussing this on debian-vote? Still?
Why not?
--
ciao,
Marco
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Ean Schuessler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Branden, and the SPI board, need to stop side stepping issues.
Why are you discussing this on debian-vote? Still?
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John,
I must commend you on this excellent summary of the current goings-on with
SPI. My only regret is that it takes my nasty tempered flame whipping to get
something this informative out of the board.
I know that you guys are trying and doing what in each of your minds you feel
is the most
Ean Schuessler wrote:
> You guys knew this was coming. When I shelved this flamewar months ago I made
> it clear that the problem would be revisited at a future date. That future
> date is here and I want to know how SPI has corrected its accounting
> problems. I want to know the filing procedur
Ean Schuessler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> [...] On occasion, nastiness can be very efficient no matter
> how much you wish it weren't so. [...]
In a dozen years, I've not been part of a volunteer project where
nastiness brought better results. Results are needed, but SPI's
not a for-profit comp
Ean Schuessler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Still, pleasant attitude, egalitarianism and nurturing can all improve
> productivity. They just can't be a replacement for knowledge, skill or
> discipline. If "pleasant environment" becomes the priority over results then
> failure is certain.
But
Blaming operational failures on emotional factors is a recurring theme in both
Debian and SPI. Operational results are by no means the guaranteed result of
a good vibes culture. On occasion, nastiness can be very efficient no matter
how much you wish it weren't so.
Still, pleasant attitude, ega
Ean Schuessler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Monday 21 February 2005 1:38 pm, MJ Ray wrote: [...]
> > In general, status reports seem few and far between in the
> > minutes. Aren't they meant to be part of the normal order of
> > business under the SPI by-laws? As you were so happy to point
> > o
On Mon, Feb 21, 2005 at 01:15:42PM -0800, Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote:
> You want a line-by-line of each expenditure? You aren't going to get
These actually are often posted by Jimmy or Branden to spi-private.
They are not posted to spi-general due to privacy concerns.
-- John
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Ean Schuessler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> There is improvement. The reports are vastly more informative than
> the complete lack of information we had seen previously. However,
> there is still no line-item information on how SPI is receiving and
> spending project monies, just high-level summa
On Monday 21 February 2005 2:26 pm, John Goerzen wrote:
> In a nutshell:
>
> 1. A regular treasurer's budget has been established
>
> 2. The treasurer has adopted a more informative reporting system
>
> 3. An assistant treasurer (Branden) has been selected
>
> 4. Banking is now done in a more conve
On Monday 21 February 2005 1:38 pm, MJ Ray wrote:
> When you were appointed President in July 2003, Branden had
> found an accountant to help with the work. From the minutes, it
> seems the SPI board did not revisit this topic before Branden's
> resignation is mentioned in January 2004. By May 200
On Mon, Feb 21, 2005 at 11:39:16AM -0600, Ean Schuessler wrote:
> You guys knew this was coming. When I shelved this flamewar months ago I made
> it clear that the problem would be revisited at a future date. That future
> date is here and I want to know how SPI has corrected its accounting
> pr
Ean Schuessler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> You guys knew this was coming. When I shelved this flamewar months
> ago I made it clear that the problem would be revisited at a future
> date. That future date is here and I want to know how SPI has
> corrected its accounting problems. I want to know
Ean Schuessler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> The obfuscation continues! Let's not get caught up in the actual
> problems I'm trying to put on the table. Let's stay focused on the
> fact that discussing mistakes and the efforts to correct them makes
> you persona non grata.
I don't think Branden h
Ean Schuessler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The obfuscation continues! Let's not get caught up in the actual problems I'm
> trying to put on the table. Let's stay focused on the fact that discussing
> mistakes and the efforts to correct them makes you persona non grata.
When you were appointed P
You guys knew this was coming. When I shelved this flamewar months ago I made
it clear that the problem would be revisited at a future date. That future
date is here and I want to know how SPI has corrected its accounting
problems. I want to know the filing procedures. I want to know why I can't
On Sunday 20 February 2005 5:23 am, Martin Schulze wrote:
> Ironically, he did so in a relatively small forum without public archive
> (iirc) but you brought the issue up yourself on a mailing list, with > 400
> people subscribe and a public archive that will end up on Google.
>
> So, if you only w
Ean Schuessler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> [...] I think it really embodies the professional tone and spirit that
> Branden brings to all of his endeavors and may help you when you are making
> your DPL decision.
Are you still bitter that we don't love you after you made a
meal of cleaning up a
Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote:
> Ean Schuessler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > A strained suggestion at best. A promise from SPI to pay is not the
> > same as a check in hand. My Mom doesn't read spi-private. Worst case
> > scenerio, I did not run into my Mom's office and shout "they paid!"
> > the
Ean Schuessler wrote:
> On a single day:
>
> - My mother sent Branden another reminder to pay SPI's very late postage bill.
> - Branden posted a message to the list saying he finally paid it.
> - I read Branden's message and said "huzzah!".
I really wonder why you posted this and started yet anot
Ean Schuessler wrote:
> On Saturday 19 February 2005 02:30 pm, Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote:
> > Branden's implication on IRC was that he had already paid it when he
> > got the note from your mother, and that you had already said Huzzah!
> > when your mother sent the reminder, suggesting that you and
On Sat, Feb 19, 2005 at 09:01:47AM -0800, Jonathan Walther wrote:
> Your comment was mildly funny, but I'd like to remind you of the
> importance of solidarity in a project like this. Moshe said to love thy
> neighbor via constructive acts, even if you personally hate him.
> Brainfood, and Ean per
On Sat, Feb 19, 2005 at 02:48:36PM -0600, Ean Schuessler wrote:
> On Saturday 19 February 2005 02:30 pm, Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote:
> > Branden's implication on IRC was that he had already paid it when he
> > got the note from your mother, and that you had already said Huzzah!
> > when your mother
I haven't been on the SPI board since July.
On Saturday 19 February 2005 05:56 pm, Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote:
> > My problem is that SPI is still non-performant to any reasonable
> > professional standard and that I am being bad-mouthed publicly by
> > its representatives when I ask for simple tas
Ean Schuessler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> - When at last a check was cut Branden made it a point to complain publicly
> about how incompetent my company was because it asked for a check to be cut.
That isn't what his complaint was. We can all read what he said.
> My problem is that SPI i
Ean,
It is true that SPI still is not performing like it should be.
It is also true that SPI has never performed like it should in its
entire history. SPI has been dysfunctional from its very beginning.
It's also been short on manpower through its entire lifespan. For
whatever reason, SPI has
Ean Schuessler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> On Saturday 19 February 2005 02:30 pm, Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote:
> > Branden's implication on IRC was that he had already paid it when he
> > got the note from your mother, and that you had already said Huzzah!
> > when your mother sent the reminder, s
I don't see a conclusion anytime soon here but I'll try once more.
- Branden failed to cash hundreds of donation checks for Debian.
- I spent money out of my own pocket to mail apologies to the people who
donated the money in the first place.
- Those letters were in fact sent.
- SPI would not
Ean Schuessler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Ok, I'm game. Why?
I know you want this to be all about Branden. But what I see is that
you took a brief thing on IRC, and decided it was a Big Issue.
Indeed, you didn't have all the facts straight when you did so, and
you proceeded to try and get peo
On Saturday 19 February 2005 03:31 pm, Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote:
> Because she didn't bother asking you? But that's not the point.
About sending the check?
> The question is, why didn't you clear this up directly with Branden?
Ok, I'm game. Why?
ps. Who's on first?
--
Ean Schuessler, CTO
Br
Ean Schuessler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Branden must have failed to copy my Mother about cutting the check. He only
> told the list. Otherwise, why would she write him an email?
Because she didn't bother asking you? But that's not the point.
The question is, why didn't you clear this up di
Whoops. I misworded that.
Branden must have failed to copy my Mother about cutting the check. He only
told the list. Otherwise, why would she write him an email?
Sorry.
On Saturday 19 February 2005 02:48 pm, Ean Schuessler wrote:
> It mostly indicates that Branden did not copy my Mother on his m
Ean Schuessler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> A strained suggestion at best. A promise from SPI to pay is not the
> same as a check in hand. My Mom doesn't read spi-private. Worst case
> scenerio, I did not run into my Mom's office and shout "they paid!"
> the second I read Branden's post.
Branden
On Sat, Feb 19, 2005 at 12:34:34PM -0800, Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote:
> Andrew Suffield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > > Do you have an argument for either?
> >
> > Points that stand unchallenged do not require arguments. To do so
> > would be a waste of valuable time. Figure it out for yoursel
On Saturday 19 February 2005 02:30 pm, Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote:
> Branden's implication on IRC was that he had already paid it when he
> got the note from your mother, and that you had already said Huzzah!
> when your mother sent the reminder, suggesting that you and she don't
> communicate very
Andrew Suffield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > Do you have an argument for either?
>
> Points that stand unchallenged do not require arguments. To do so
> would be a waste of valuable time. Figure it out for yourself, anyway.
Having just challenged the one and pointed out the irrelevance and
ob
On Sat, Feb 19, 2005 at 11:48:50AM -0800, Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote:
> Andrew Suffield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > I didn't even put them in that order, why on earth would anybody think
> > that one follows from the other? That's a semicolon, not a colon.
>
> So there is no connection betwe
Ean Schuessler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> - My mother sent Branden another reminder to pay SPI's very late postage bill.
> - Branden posted a message to the list saying he finally paid it.
> - I read Branden's message and said "huzzah!".
> What is your question?
Branden's implication on IRC w
On a single day:
- My mother sent Branden another reminder to pay SPI's very late postage bill.
- Branden posted a message to the list saying he finally paid it.
- I read Branden's message and said "huzzah!".
What is your question?
ps. This is all after repeated reminders and invoices by physica
Andrew Suffield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> I didn't even put them in that order, why on earth would anybody think
> that one follows from the other? That's a semicolon, not a colon.
So there is no connection between the two as far as you're concerned?
Do you have an argument for either? Or a
On Sat, Feb 19, 2005 at 10:49:05AM -0800, Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote:
> Andrew Suffield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > On Sat, Feb 19, 2005 at 02:04:48AM -0600, Ean Schuessler wrote:
> > > Truly, there is no justice.
> >
> > Of course not, don't be silly. "Justice" is an excuse used by people
>
Andrew Suffield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> On Sat, Feb 19, 2005 at 02:04:48AM -0600, Ean Schuessler wrote:
> > Truly, there is no justice.
>
> Of course not, don't be silly. "Justice" is an excuse used by people
> seeking revenge; the universe has no real interest in it. Neither is
> there suc
On Sat, Feb 19, 2005 at 02:04:48AM -0600, Ean Schuessler wrote:
> Truly, there is no justice.
Of course not, don't be silly. "Justice" is an excuse used by people
seeking revenge; the universe has no real interest in it. Neither is
there such a thing as "fair".
--
.''`. ** Debian GNU/Linux **
Jonathan Walther <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Your comment was mildly funny, but I'd like to remind you of the
> importance of solidarity in a project like this. Moshe said to love thy
> neighbor via constructive acts, even if you personally hate him.
> Brainfood, and Ean personally, have contri
On Sat, Feb 19, 2005 at 11:12:59AM +0100, Christian T. Steigies wrote:
All of you volunteers just remember: If you spend money out of your own pocket
to help Debian and want to be repaid you are an evil idiot. If you complain
after not getting paid for six months you are a naggy grouser. If you i
On Fri, Feb 18, 2005 at 09:00:55PM -0600, Ean Schuessler wrote:
>
> All of you volunteers just remember: If you spend money out of your own
> pocket
> to help Debian and want to be repaid you are an evil idiot. If you complain
> after not getting paid for six months you are a naggy grouser. If
Ean Schuessler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Truly, there is no justice.
Justice? You didn't answer the basic point, which I find interesting,
since, after all, you brought it up.
Why didn't the payee of this check ask you instead of Branden? Do you
not communicate?
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Truly, there is no justice.
I love this project!
On Friday 18 February 2005 09:31 pm, Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote:
> Thanks Ean. I read this and figure that you are certainly someone who
> shouldn't get my vote, since you can't keep someone with the same last
> name, who you recruited, aware of wh
Thanks Ean. I read this and figure that you are certainly someone who
shouldn't get my vote, since you can't keep someone with the same last
name, who you recruited, aware of what's going on, when you have all
the relevant information right at hand.
By contrast, I find the exchange demonstrates
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