On Wed, Dec 24, 2008 at 03:55:40PM +0900, Paul Wise wrote:
> On Wed, Dec 24, 2008 at 3:15 PM, Steve Langasek wrote:
> > Having two sets of images doesn't make sense to me; the CD team have already
> > posted publically this cycle about the infrastructure challenges involved
> > with publishing th
Gunnar Wolf wrote:
> Sometimes we don't include documentation not because it is sourceless
> (at any rate, what is the source for a .txt file but that file
> itself?), but because it is simply non-free. Think about the RFCs:
> They are not legally modifiable. and there is _good_ reason for that
>
Thiemo Seufer wrote:
> Kurt Roeckx wrote: [...]
> > hardware to make it fully functional. The files in this
> > area should not comply with the DFSG #2, #3 and #4, but should
> ^
> .. need not to comply ..; as already mentioned by others.
Just "need not c
Johannes Wiedersich wrote: [...]
> The suggestion is to add a debconf question to each installation from
> that 'firmware section'. This will honestly point out to users that they
> are about to install non-free stuff which is not part of debian proper [1].
I like this suggestion.
> Now the ques
Johannes Wiedersich dijo [Tue, Dec 23, 2008 at 03:25:52PM +0100]:
> I have one additional suggestion and a further question to the project.
>
> The suggestion is to add a debconf question to each installation from
> that 'firmware section'. This will honestly point out to users that they
> are abo
On Wed, Dec 24, 2008 at 12:16:47PM +0100, Kurt Roeckx wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 23, 2008 at 07:02:27PM -0600, Peter Samuelson wrote:
> >
> > [Kurt Roeckx]
> > > The idea is to create a new section that contains files like firmware
> > > images and FPGA data that gets written to the hardware to make it
On Wednesday 24 December 2008, Don Armstrong wrote:
> 1: -vote really is the wrong list to discuss this on; Cc'ing debian-cd
> so knowledgeable people there can tell me I'm on crack.
Yes, I'm afraid you are ;-)
First of all, this does not only affect CD images, but installer images in
general (t
On Tue, 23 Dec 2008, Steve Langasek wrote:
> Having two sets of images doesn't make sense to me; the CD team have
> already posted publically this cycle about the infrastructure
> challenges involved with publishing those images that they already
> have to accomodate, doubling the image count doesn
On Tue, Dec 23, 2008 at 10:15:15PM -0800, Steve Langasek wrote:
>
> While I think it would be reasonable to include sourceless firmware on our
> CDs and DVDs, I don't think this is actually a very good solution to the
> problem we face:
>
> - if they're included on the official "Debian" images, t
On Tue, Dec 23, 2008 at 07:02:27PM -0600, Peter Samuelson wrote:
>
> [Kurt Roeckx]
> > The idea is to create a new section that contains files like firmware
> > images and FPGA data that gets written to the hardware to make it
> > fully functional. It is not meant for drivers that run on the host
Josselin Mouette writes:
> Le mardi 23 décembre 2008 à 19:02 -0600, Peter Samuelson a écrit :
> > Without weighing in on whether there _is_ a class of software for
> > which users shouldn't have the right to look at and modify source
> > code, this whole phrase "run on the host CPU" needs to die
Le mardi 23 décembre 2008 à 19:02 -0600, Peter Samuelson a écrit :
> Without weighing in on whether there _is_ a class of software for which
> users shouldn't have the right to look at and modify source code, this
> whole phrase "run on the host CPU" needs to die and be replaced by
> something more
On Wed, Dec 24, 2008 at 3:15 PM, Steve Langasek wrote:
> Having two sets of images doesn't make sense to me; the CD team have already
> posted publically this cycle about the infrastructure challenges involved
> with publishing those images that they already have to accomodate, doubling
> the ima
On Tue, Dec 23, 2008 at 01:07:43PM +0100, Kurt Roeckx wrote:
> I've been thinking about this proposal for some time, and I probably
> should have send this some time ago. At least some people seem to
> have had simular ideas, so I wonder why nobody propsed anything like
> this.
> The idea is to c
[Kurt Roeckx]
> The idea is to create a new section that contains files like firmware
> images and FPGA data that gets written to the hardware to make it
> fully functional. It is not meant for drivers that run on the host
> CPU.
Without weighing in on whether there _is_ a class of software for
Le mardi 23 décembre 2008 à 21:23 +0100, Michael Banck a écrit :
> > Why? In essence, it is very similar to a firmware. It can also be
> > necessary (e.g. for game data) to make free software work, in a similar
> > way to the kernel with firmware.
>
> While that might be true technically, I don't
On Tue, Dec 23, 2008 at 03:44:25PM +0100, Josselin Mouette wrote:
> Le mardi 23 décembre 2008 à 15:27 +0100, Michael Banck a écrit :
> > > How about ???Software that is not executed on the host CPU??? ? That can
> > > include e.g. non-free documentation, which clearly doesn???t belong in the
> > >
Kurt Roeckx wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I've been thinking about this proposal for some time, and I probably
> should have send this some time ago. At least some people seem to
> have had simular ideas, so I wonder why nobody propsed anything like
> this.
>
> The idea is to create a new section that contai
Johannes Wiedersich wrote:
> Didier Raboud wrote:
>> And if this section is not considered "part of the Debian system", why
>> including software from it on the Debian CD's ? (The inverse question is
>> to be answered too...)
>
> Because it might be required in order to install all that free soft
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Kurt Roeckx wrote:
> The idea is to create a new section that contains files like
> firmware images and FPGA data that gets written to the hardware
> to make it fully functional. It is not meant for drivers that run
> on the host CPU.
[FWIW, I've bee
On Tue, Dec 23, 2008 at 03:34:29PM +0100, Loïc Minier wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 23, 2008, Kurt Roeckx wrote:
> > The idea is to create a new section that contains files like
> > firmware images and FPGA data that gets written to the hardware
> > to make it fully functional. It is not meant for drivers
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Didier Raboud wrote:
> And if this section is not considered "part of the Debian system", why
> including software from it on the Debian CD's ? (The inverse question is to
> be answered too…)
Because it might be required in order to install all that f
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Loïc Minier wrote:
> If the intent is to include it in our CD-ROMs, I think some people will
> want a "really really free" CD-ROM which doesn't have this section.
Or maybe an explicit debconf question about the non-free nature? This
could make sure
Josselin Mouette wrote:
> Le mardi 23 décembre 2008 à 13:07 +0100, Kurt Roeckx a écrit :
>> The idea is to create a new section that contains files like
>> firmware images and FPGA data that gets written to the hardware
>> to make it fully functional. It is not meant for drivers that run
>> on th
Le mardi 23 décembre 2008 à 15:27 +0100, Michael Banck a écrit :
> > How about ???Software that is not executed on the host CPU??? ? That can
> > include e.g. non-free documentation, which clearly doesn???t belong in the
> > same place than nVidia binary drivers.
>
> While I think that non-dfsg-fr
On Tue, Dec 23, 2008, Kurt Roeckx wrote:
> The idea is to create a new section that contains files like
> firmware images and FPGA data that gets written to the hardware
> to make it fully functional. It is not meant for drivers that run
> on the host CPU.
Do you propose to include data for whic
On Tue, Dec 23, 2008 at 03:24:25PM +0100, Josselin Mouette wrote:
> Le mardi 23 décembre 2008 à 13:07 +0100, Kurt Roeckx a écrit :
> > The idea is to create a new section that contains files like
> > firmware images and FPGA data that gets written to the hardware
> > to make it fully functional. I
Le mardi 23 décembre 2008 à 13:07 +0100, Kurt Roeckx a écrit :
> The idea is to create a new section that contains files like
> firmware images and FPGA data that gets written to the hardware
> to make it fully functional. It is not meant for drivers that run
> on the host CPU.
There is no reason
Kurt Roeckx wrote:
> The files in this area should not comply with the DFSG #2, #3 and
> #4, but should comply with the rest of the the DFSG.
So anything that complies with 1 or 2 of these points, but not
all of them, may not be included in the firmware section?
s/should not/must not necessarily/
Hi,
I've been thinking about this proposal for some time, and I probably
should have send this some time ago. At least some people seem to
have had simular ideas, so I wonder why nobody propsed anything like
this.
The idea is to create a new section that contains files like
firmware images and F
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