Re: Firmware & Social Contract: GR proposal

2006-09-07 Thread Steve Langasek
On Tue, Sep 05, 2006 at 12:32:15PM +0200, Sven Luther wrote: > > firmware that's not tied to etch's release; Joss's is temporary, tied to > > the the development of "technical measures" that will allow firmware to be > > separated; Don's isn't an exception at all, and won't allow us to release > >

Re: kernel firmwares: GR proposal

2006-09-07 Thread Sven Luther
On Thu, Sep 07, 2006 at 05:08:28PM -0500, Bill Allombert wrote: > On Fri, Sep 01, 2006 at 02:42:26PM -0400, Raul Miller wrote: > > What strikes me as ironic, with these proposals, is that we ran into > > something like this problem back in the 90s, back during the initial > > adoption of the DFSG,

Re: kernel firmwares: GR proposal

2006-09-07 Thread Bill Allombert
On Fri, Sep 01, 2006 at 02:42:26PM -0400, Raul Miller wrote: > What strikes me as ironic, with these proposals, is that we ran into > something like this problem back in the 90s, back during the initial > adoption of the DFSG, and we had to solve that problem then: > we created the non-free and con

Re: Let's vote ...

2006-09-07 Thread Sven Luther
On Thu, Sep 07, 2006 at 01:51:12PM -0500, Bill Allombert wrote: > Hello GR proponents, > > before we vote I would very much appreciate example of firmware > that would be affected by your proposal (and how). > > I already asked for something similar without answer in August. > > I am concerned

Re: Let's vote ...

2006-09-07 Thread Bill Allombert
Hello GR proponents, before we vote I would very much appreciate example of firmware that would be affected by your proposal (and how). I already asked for something similar without answer in August. I am concerned with including in Debian firmwares whose license reduce the usefulness of Debian

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Re: Firmware & Social Contract: GR proposal

2006-09-07 Thread Martin Wuertele
Hi Steve! * Steve Langasek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2006-09-07 13:35]: > There's also something of a difference, IMHO, between dropping sourceless > firmware from the kernel with the result that some users will be unable to > install etch at all, and requiring that you not add arbitrary other non-fre

Re: kernel firmwares: GR proposal

2006-09-07 Thread Marco d'Itri
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >I have not been the only one to be upset about the firmware situation >every time it has been brought up, as can be verified by browsing the >list archives. I can see that the controversy is old, but certainly >not that your interpretation was "widely accepted." Wrong. T

Re: Firmware & Social Contract: GR proposal

2006-09-07 Thread Steve Langasek
On Thu, Sep 07, 2006 at 01:30:25AM -0700, Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote: > > On Wed, Sep 06, 2006 at 10:21:18AM -0700, Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote: > >> We could have met those expectations of the d-i and kernel teams had > >> taken the issue seriously before now. Their failure to do so does not > >> t

Re: Firmware & Social Contract: GR proposal

2006-09-07 Thread Wouter Verhelst
On Wed, Sep 06, 2006 at 10:19:50AM -0700, Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote: > "Marco d'Itri" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > As usual you forget that we also have that other commitment to our > > users, and that we used to pride ourselves in providing the best free OS. > > There is an absolute ranking in

Re: Firmware & Social Contract: GR proposal

2006-09-07 Thread Thomas Bushnell BSG
Anthony Towns <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > On Wed, Sep 06, 2006 at 10:21:18AM -0700, Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote: >> We could have met those expectations of the d-i and kernel teams had >> taken the issue seriously before now. Their failure to do so does not >> translate to an emergency on my or D

Re: kernel firmwares: GR proposal

2006-09-07 Thread Thomas Bushnell BSG
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Marco d'Itri) writes: > On Sep 07, Thomas Bushnell BSG <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> > The widely accepted custom was to interpret the DFSG this way, yes. >> > This is what matters. >> What is your evidence of this? > My experience of 9 years in Debian, which can be verified

Re: kernel firmwares: GR proposal

2006-09-07 Thread Marco d'Itri
On Sep 07, Thomas Bushnell BSG <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > The widely accepted custom was to interpret the DFSG this way, yes. > > This is what matters. > What is your evidence of this? My experience of 9 years in Debian, which can be verified by browsing the list archives. -- ciao, Marco