On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 10:55:02PM +0200, Dotan Cohen wrote:
> > And yet me getting-old laptop is still snappy. I think it's more that MSO
> > is written in absurdly-tuned C & assembler, whereas OOo is portable C++ &
> > Java.
> >
>
> Actually, MSO is written in a high-level language. I forget wh
On 2010-03-18 19:04, Kelly Clowers wrote:
[snip]
MSO (all versions) is almost entirely C++, like most MS programs and
Win32 itself. Most of the very low-level stuff (including the NT Kernel) is
in C.
C++ had barely been invented when Word, Excel & Access were written,
and the compilers and l
On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 20:55, Dotan Cohen wrote:
>> And yet me getting-old laptop is still snappy. I think it's more that MSO
>> is written in absurdly-tuned C & assembler, whereas OOo is portable C++ &
>> Java.
>>
>
> Actually, MSO is written in a high-level language. I forget which, but
> it's
On 2010-03-18 15:55, Dotan Cohen wrote:
And yet me getting-old laptop is still snappy. I think it's more that MSO
is written in absurdly-tuned C & assembler, whereas OOo is portable C++ &
Java.
Actually, MSO is written in a high-level language. I forget which, but
it's not .NET. They do that
On 3/18/2010 3:44 PM, Ron Johnson wrote:
On 2010-03-18 11:47, Sjoerd Hiemstra wrote:
Andrei Popescu:
Ron Johnson:
Lastly, Excel, Word, IE & Lookout just launch faster than Calc,
Write, FF & Tbird.
That's too bad.
The comparison is not quite fair, since the former are being preloaded
in Wind
> And yet me getting-old laptop is still snappy. I think it's more that MSO
> is written in absurdly-tuned C & assembler, whereas OOo is portable C++ &
> Java.
>
Actually, MSO is written in a high-level language. I forget which, but
it's not .NET. They do that because there are a lot of bugs, and
On 2010-03-18 11:47, Sjoerd Hiemstra wrote:
Andrei Popescu:
Ron Johnson:
Lastly, Excel, Word, IE & Lookout just launch faster than Calc,
Write, FF & Tbird.
That's too bad.
The comparison is not quite fair, since the former are being preloaded
in Windows.
And yet me getting-old laptop is s
> -Original Message-
> From: Andrei Popescu [mailto:andreimpope...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, 18 March, 2010 00:42
> To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
> Subject: Re: (OT) gnash vs. flash (was Re: Why does
> installing gnome ...)
>
> On Thu,18.Mar.10, 03:
>> > Lastly, Excel, Word, IE & Lookout just launch faster than Calc,
>> > Write, FF & Tbird.
>>
>> That's too bad.
>
> The comparison is not quite fair, since the former are being preloaded
> in Windows.
>
For one thing, you can preload in Linux as well. For users with 2GB
RAM or more, I enable th
Andrei Popescu:
> Ron Johnson:
> > Lastly, Excel, Word, IE & Lookout just launch faster than Calc,
> > Write, FF & Tbird.
>
> That's too bad.
The comparison is not quite fair, since the former are being preloaded
in Windows.
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wit
On Thu, 18 Mar 2010 15:10:55 +0200
Dotan Cohen wrote:
> > So apparently the stuff could actually be included in the official
> > archive, without violating the social contract?
> >
>
> No, there is a difference between checking all software for possible
> patent infringement and including known
On Thu, 18 Mar 2010 15:18:13 +0200
Dotan Cohen wrote:
...
> Thanks, Celejar. I also gave up on Lyx for Hebrew, but I may start
> filing issues on the Lyx 2.0 branch so that they could fix it in time
> for release. There does seem to be effort in that regard.
>
> It would be great if you could w
> Hm, I've had sort of the opposite experience. Hebrew stuff usually
> works fine for me with OO, but I've reluctantly had to give up LyX for
> mixed Hebrew / English document creation, due to its brokenness:
>
> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=516017
> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-
On Thu, 18 Mar 2010 10:19:07 +0200
Micha wrote:
...
> The problem is collaboration. There are quite a few word documents that don't
> open properly in open office (hebrew usually typesets wrong, math doesn't
> work
> at all ...)
>
> Powerpoint files are also a complete mess in openoffice.
>
> So apparently the stuff could actually be included in the official
> archive, without violating the social contract?
>
No, there is a difference between checking all software for possible
patent infringement and including known offenders. But the line is
grey, to be sure.
--
Dotan Cohen
http
On Thu, 18 Mar 2010 09:28:49 +0200
Andrei Popescu wrote:
> On Wed,17.Mar.10, 16:44:17, Ron Johnson wrote:
> >
> > Enough DDs are sufficiently practical for there to be a non-free
> > tree, and Christian Marillat does yeoman's work with
> > http://www.debian-multimedia.org/.
>
> Most of the stuf
>>>
>>>
But can a "purist" accept such support and be a true linux user?
>>>
>>> "Linux" is not synonymous with "free". "Debian" is not synonymous with
>>> "Stallman". Please keep these facts in mind.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Sure . . . I was just curious to get some particular responses from users.
>>
On 3/18/2010 6:35 AM, Neal Hogan wrote:
On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 5:28 AM, Mark Allums wrote:
On 3/17/2010 9:03 PM, Neal Hogan wrote:
Most (if not all) software has some sort of license, like "use as
you'd like but make sure you tell the next person the same" (BSD . .
.as I understand it). Howe
On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 5:28 AM, Mark Allums wrote:
> On 3/17/2010 9:03 PM, Neal Hogan wrote:
>
>> Most (if not all) software has some sort of license, like "use as
>> you'd like but make sure you tell the next person the same" (BSD . .
>> .as I understand it). However, Flash is not just a set of
On 3/17/2010 9:23 PM, Stephen Powell wrote:
1
But I'm just pragmatic enough that I want it to work.
If there was a reliable, stable, free flash plugin, I'd use it. But
there's just too many flash sequences that the free stuff can't handle
properly. At least not yet. If web sites didn't use thi
On 3/17/2010 9:03 PM, Neal Hogan wrote:
Most (if not all) software has some sort of license, like "use as
you'd like but make sure you tell the next person the same" (BSD . .
.as I understand it). However, Flash is not just a set of words . . .
to use Adobe software without paying for it is stea
2010/3/18 Micha :
> There are quite a few word documents that
> don't open properly in open office (hebrew usually typesets wrong, math
> doesn't work at all ...)
>
Please comment on this issue:
http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=105270
--
Dotan Cohen
http://bido.com
http://what-is
On 2010-03-18 03:41, Andrei Popescu wrote:
On Thu,18.Mar.10, 03:28:40, Ron Johnson wrote:
The main problem is all the 3rd party applications written
specifically for Word and Excel which have no analog in the OOo
world.
Interesting, I didn't come across such things in my company
A
On Thu,18.Mar.10, 03:28:40, Ron Johnson wrote:
> The main problem is all the 3rd party applications written
> specifically for Word and Excel which have no analog in the OOo
> world.
Interesting, I didn't come across such things in my company
> Also is the tight integration w/ other MS
On 2010-03-18 02:41, Andrei Popescu wrote:
On Thu,18.Mar.10, 03:07:12, Dotan Cohen wrote:
Therefore, I have no problem with proprietary Flash, even though I
understand the problems that it causes. I wish that more proprietary
software, such as Solidworks and MS Office, were available for Debia
On 18/03/2010 09:41, Andrei Popescu wrote:
On Thu,18.Mar.10, 03:07:12, Dotan Cohen wrote:
Therefore, I have no problem with proprietary Flash, even though I
understand the problems that it causes. I wish that more proprietary
software, such as Solidworks and MS Office, were available for Debian
On Wed,17.Mar.10, 22:23:24, Stephen Powell wrote:
> I can only speak for myself. I am a Linux user and system administrator.
> I am not a Debian package maintainer or Debian developer. I *STRONGLY*
> prefer free (as in freedom and as in price) software over non-free
> software. But I'm just pr
On Thu,18.Mar.10, 03:07:12, Dotan Cohen wrote:
> Therefore, I have no problem with proprietary Flash, even though I
> understand the problems that it causes. I wish that more proprietary
> software, such as Solidworks and MS Office, were available for Debian
> or Linux in general.
Is there any r
On Wed,17.Mar.10, 16:44:17, Ron Johnson wrote:
>
> Enough DDs are sufficiently practical for there to be a non-free
> tree, and Christian Marillat does yeoman's work with
> http://www.debian-multimedia.org/.
Most of the stuff there is DFSG-free, but infringes some patents.
Regards,
Andrei
--
Of
On 2010-03-17 21:03, Neal Hogan wrote:
[snip]
Most (if not all) software has some sort of license, like "use as
you'd like but make sure you tell the next person the same" (BSD . .
.as I understand it). However, Flash is not just a set of words . . .
to use Adobe software without paying for it i
On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 10:07 PM, Neal Hogan wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 4:44 PM, Ron Johnson wrote:
>>
>> Enough DDs are sufficiently practical for there to be a non-free tree, and
>> Christian Marillat does yeoman's work with
>> http://www.debian-multimedia.org/.
>>
>
> "non-free?" I know
On Wed, 17 Mar 2010 17:35:25 -0400 (EDT), Neal Hogan wrote:
> I highly suspect a flame-war here, but isn't against the
> "Stallmanian-principle" for a linux machines to play with those
> proprietary kids AT ALL. That is, debian (or any other linux) should
> not even consider talking with that kind
On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 4:44 PM, Ron Johnson wrote:
>
> Enough DDs are sufficiently practical for there to be a non-free tree, and
> Christian Marillat does yeoman's work with
> http://www.debian-multimedia.org/.
>
"non-free?" I know that's what it's called, but I wonder how descriptive it is.
B
On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 8:15 PM, Andrew Reid wrote:
> On Wednesday 17 March 2010 20:15:51 Neal Hogan wrote:
>> On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 4:44 PM, Ron Johnson wrote:
>
>> > Enough DDs are sufficiently practical for there to be a non-free tree,
>> > and Christian Marillat does yeoman's work with
>> >
On Wednesday 17 March 2010 20:15:51 Neal Hogan wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 4:44 PM, Ron Johnson wrote:
> > Enough DDs are sufficiently practical for there to be a non-free tree,
> > and Christian Marillat does yeoman's work with
> > http://www.debian-multimedia.org/.
>
>
>
> Ok . . . that's
> I highly suspect a flame-war here, but isn't against the
> "Stallmanian-principle" for a linux machines to play with those
> proprietary kids AT ALL. That is, debian (or any other linux) should
> not even consider talking with that kind of software. I'm just curious
> how many linux users/devs/et
>
The rub is that Debian doesn't officially know that Flash exists. Even if
it
did, too many DDs are morally opposed to closed-source to want to Depend
on
it.
>>>
>>> I highly suspect a flame-war here, but isn't against the
>>> "Stallmanian-principle" for a linux machin
On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 4:44 PM, Ron Johnson wrote:
> On 2010-03-17 16:35, Neal Hogan wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 4:19 PM, Ron Johnson
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> On 2010-03-17 10:40, Stefan Monnier wrote:
>
> Installing Gnash screws up Flash.
That is the core of the problem that
On 2010-03-17 16:35, Neal Hogan wrote:
On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 4:19 PM, Ron Johnson wrote:
On 2010-03-17 10:40, Stefan Monnier wrote:
Installing Gnash screws up Flash.
That is the core of the problem that needs to be fixed.
There's no reason the two shouldn't be able to coexist peacefully so
On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 4:19 PM, Ron Johnson wrote:
> On 2010-03-17 10:40, Stefan Monnier wrote:
>>>
>>> Installing Gnash screws up Flash.
>>
>> That is the core of the problem that needs to be fixed.
>> There's no reason the two shouldn't be able to coexist peacefully so
>> that each user on the
On Wed, 17 Mar 2010 17:19:35 -0400 (EDT), Ron Johnson wrote:
> On 2010-03-17 10:40, Stefan Monnier wrote:
>>
>> That is the core of the problem that needs to be fixed.
>> There's no reason the two shouldn't be able to coexist peacefully so
>> that each user on the machine can choose which flash pl
On Wed, 17 Mar 2010 16:19:35 -0500
Ron Johnson wrote:
> On 2010-03-17 10:40, Stefan Monnier wrote:
> >> Installing Gnash screws up Flash.
> >
> > That is the core of the problem that needs to be fixed.
> > There's no reason the two shouldn't be able to coexist peacefully so
> > that each user on
On 2010-03-17 10:40, Stefan Monnier wrote:
Installing Gnash screws up Flash.
That is the core of the problem that needs to be fixed.
There's no reason the two shouldn't be able to coexist peacefully so
that each user on the machine can choose which flash player she wants
to use.
The rub is t
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