Re: My quite ordinary comment about Re: GR to remove non-free...

On Thu, Jun 08, 2000 at 03:49:50PM -0400, Andrew Whitlock wrote: > > > A typical newbie won't start with Debian > > > >While that is probably true, I don't think that should be the basis for > > Debian's mode of operation. Debian needs new users and it needs to be > > designed to appeal to new

Re: My quite ordinary comment about Re: GR to remove non-free...

servicom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >Of course, when talking about newbies - a lot will probably be coming from >window$ so can't really survive unless they have a fancy graphical >installer/package manager (like gnorpm). Hmm, gnome-apt? :) Usable, though it still needs a lot of improvement from w

Re: Who/what is GR (was: Re: My quite ordinary comment about Re: GR to remove non-free...)

Daniel Barclay <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Who or what is "GR"? GR stands for General Resolution, ie. the process Debian goes through before making a vote on something.

Who/what is GR (was: Re: My quite ordinary comment about Re: GR to remove non-free...)

Who or what is "GR"? Thanks, Daniel -- Daniel Barclay [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Hmm. A little worrisome: http://www.junkbusters.com/cgi-bin/privacy http://www.anonymizer.com/snoop.cgi )

Re: Notice: GR to remove non-free support from Debian

Syrus Nemat-Nasser wrote: > On Fri, 9 Jun 2000, Peter S Galbraith wrote: > > > > I'm worried about loosing contrib, waisting _more_ time > > supporting some non-free or contrib software, and the explosions > > of badly-made and incompatible deb packages that may result. > > Point taken. I, howe

Re: Notice: GR to remove non-free support from Debian

On Fri, 9 Jun 2000, Peter S Galbraith wrote: > > There are many types of users that depend on Debian. Most of them probably > > have a mixture of motives that include both the political (DFSG) and the > > practical (apt rules!). However, the argument that Debian should be > > worried about keeping

Re: Notice: GR to remove non-free support from Debian

Colin Watson wrote: > Syrus Nemat-Nasser <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >On 8 Jun 2000, Chuan-kai Lin wrote: > >> There is a General Resolution proposed by developer John Goerzen that > >> is under discussion on both debian-devel and debian-project, maybe also > >> a few others that I am not aware o

Re: My quite ordinary comment about Re: GR to remove non-free...

Eric Hagglund <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >But it does cost money to put the non-free stuff on servers Really, I don't think that's the issue. "Resources" have been mentioned, but I think the idea is more of developers' time [1]; non-free is about one-tenth the size of main, and changes relatively

Re: GR to remove non-free...

John Foster <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >I have for some time been concerned about the overall size of the basic >Debian distro. I voiced that opinion and here will repost it. The >Debian distro would be best served by limiting the BASIC distro to >those main items covered by the GPL, LGPL etc. and

Re: Notice: GR to remove non-free support from Debian

Igor Mozetic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >Anyway, if this resolution is passed, I will consider switching to another >distribution. I have to maintain 11 Debian machines, and even so spend >quite some time on proper configuration. Before such a move, I would like >some informed suggestions about pos

Re: Notice: GR to remove non-free support from Debian

Andrew George <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >I don't think this is a good thing. >Debian is a great distribution, and I do agree, the project shouldn't >be wasting time with bug trackking (except where its the deb that got a >problem). Um, I think that's one of the main goals of the project :) We c

Re: Notice: GR to remove non-free support from Debian

Syrus Nemat-Nasser <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >On Fri, 9 Jun 2000, Peter S Galbraith wrote: >> Syrus Nemat-Nasser wrote: >> > Pardon me, but why do you folks think you will no longer have >> > access to Debianized packages of this non-free software? These >> > packages would simply have to be manag

Re: Notice: GR to remove non-free support from Debian

Syrus Nemat-Nasser wrote: > On Fri, 9 Jun 2000, Peter S Galbraith wrote: > > > Syrus Nemat-Nasser wrote: > > > > > Pardon me, but why do you folks think you will no longer > > > have access to Debianized packages of this non-free > > > software? These packages would simply have to be managed >

Re: Notice: GR to remove non-free support from Debian

Syrus Nemat-Nasser <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >On 8 Jun 2000, Chuan-kai Lin wrote: >> There is a General Resolution proposed by developer John Goerzen that >> is under discussion on both debian-devel and debian-project, maybe also >> a few others that I am not aware of. The nature of the GR is to

Re: Notice: GR to remove non-free support from Debian

On Fri, 9 Jun 2000, Peter S Galbraith wrote: > > Syrus Nemat-Nasser wrote: > > > Pardon me, but why do you folks think you will no longer have access to > > Debianized packages of this non-free software? These packages would simply > > have to be managed outside of the official Debian infrastruc

Re: Notice: GR to remove non-free support from Debian

Syrus Nemat-Nasser wrote: > Pardon me, but why do you folks think you will no longer have access to > Debianized packages of this non-free software? These packages would simply > have to be managed outside of the official Debian infrastructure. Note the _have to_ above. Who will do this? >

Re: Notice: GR to remove non-free support from Debian

Matthew, and Debian Folks, On Fri, 9 Jun 2000, Matthew Dalton wrote, in part: > The real change is that non-free will no longer be covered by the same > bug tracking system as the rest of Debian. This will have the most > effect on the packages in the contrib section that depend on packages in

Re: My quite ordinary comment about Re: GR to remove non-free...

> I don't know about you, but I never got a non-free cd with my official > Debian cd's. Non-free has never been a part of official Debian releases > AFAIK. > The problem friends lies in the fact that if support is withdrawn from the developers, MANY users will be left without any idea about what t

OT: GNU (was: Re: Notice: GR to remove non-free support from Debian)

"Moore, Paul" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > The endless issues over free vs non-free and other license-related issues > makes Debian look more like license nit-pickers than anything else. This > doesn't seem to me to be a good image to have. It's not done the GNU project > much good, and it would b

Re: GR to remove non-free...

> > A typical newbie won't start with Debian And this all but guarentees it. Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com

Re: Notice: GR to remove non-free support from Debian

On Thu, Jun 08, 2000 at 11:38:31AM -0700, Syrus Nemat-Nasser wrote: > On Thu, 8 Jun 2000, Moore, Paul wrote: > > Pardon me, but why do you folks think you will no longer have access to > Debianized packages of this non-free software? These packages would simply > have to be managed outside of the

Re: My quite ordinary comment about Re: GR to remove non-free...

"eric a . Farris" wrote: > > i think that'll be the kicker. those of use with (slow|no) connection > at home will pay a price, either through long download times, or having > to find/burn our own non-free CD. i would hope that, if non-free (and i > assume contrib must follow) is pulled that it wou

Re: Notice: GR to remove non-free support from Debian

I've been following this thread on debian-devel for a few days now... I am against the proposal myself, but I don't have any say because I'm not a Debian developer. Andrew George wrote: > > I don't think this is a good thing. > Debian is a great distribution, and I do agree, the project shouldn't

Re: My quite ordinary comment about Re: GR to remove non-free...

On Thu, Jun 08, 2000 at 05:48:29PM -0500, John Hasler wrote: > (i.e., Netscape). The idea is that CD vendors can go through the licenses > and decide for themselves what to include. So far as I know none have done > so. Steve McIntyre puts some extra stuff on his CDs - the slink set I got from

Re: My quite ordinary comment about Re: GR to remove non-free...

> > A typical newbie won't start with Debian An important factor is the question of which package management system is the best. In my experience, Debian's is the best when used with dselect/apt, etc. All the deps are sorted out and I think this could be considered a real boon for a newbie. Of c

Re: My quite ordinary comment about Re: GR to remove non-free...

Nathan Norman writes: > Who makes a non-free CD now? That's the whole point of non-free; the > bits in there have license or patent issues that prevent distribution via > commercial media like CDs. That is only one of the reasons for putting stuff in non-free. Others are that modifications are f

Re: My quite ordinary comment about Re: GR to remove non-free...

On Thu, Jun 08, 2000 at 04:08:59PM -0400, eric a . Farris wrote: > i think that'll be the kicker. those of use with (slow|no) connection > at home will pay a price, either through long download times, or having > to find/burn our own non-free CD. i would hope that, if non-free (and i > assume contr

Re: Notice: GR to remove non-free support from Debian

Is there a chance that Storm or Corel or both would take over non-free? -- Carl Fink [EMAIL PROTECTED] Manager, Dueling Modems Computer Forum

Re: My quite ordinary comment about Re: GR to remove non-free...

I wish I could get more information before throwing in my two cents, but here goes: I tend to agree with most of the comments here. I like working with Debian and think that the package managmenent tool is the best of the distributions that I've worked with. I also like the fact that as things now

Re: GR to remove non-free... Resent-Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 16:02:11 -0500 (CDT) Resent-From: debian-user@lists.debian.org Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 17:30:38 -0300 From: Rogerio Brito To: RE: GR to remove non-free...

I have just recently stumbled onto this information and am NOT a Newbie. I been using Debian for many years. I am certain that many of you will share you opinions here. I only hope that those of you who are developers and package maintainers view these varied but "concerned" opinions an take heed o

Re: My quite ordinary comment about Re: GR to remove non-free...

On Jun 08 2000, eric a . Farris wrote: > but, i have been playing around a bit with the new Mandrake 7.1, and > it sure is sweet... I think that I have a question: is there any standard or recommended way to upgrade an RPM-based system in way more or less similar to Debian'

Re: My quite ordinary comment about Re: GR to remove non-free...

On Thu, Jun 08, 2000 at 03:49:50PM -0400, Andrew Whitlock wrote: > I'm a newbie, I started with Debian ^_^ greetings from another once-newbie that also started with Debian (four years ago). > As a newbie to Debian and proud owner of a mere 56Kbps connection, I'd have > to say I much prefer stuff

Re: My quite ordinary comment about Re: GR to remove non-free...

> > A typical newbie won't start with Debian > >While that is probably true, I don't think that should be the basis for > Debian's mode of operation. Debian needs new users and it needs to be > designed to appeal to new users while still maintaining the qualities that > separate it from the ot

RE: My quite ordinary comment about Re: GR to remove non-free...

ebian need a "x-based newbies" set of defaults? -- From: Randy Edwards[SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, 9 June 2000 7:18 AM To: I. Tura Cc: debian-user@lists.debian.org Subject:Re: My quite ordinary comment about Re: GR to

Re: My quite ordinary comment about Re: GR to remove non-free...

> A typical newbie won't start with Debian While that is probably true, I don't think that should be the basis for Debian's mode of operation. Debian needs new users and it needs to be designed to appeal to new users while still maintaining the qualities that separate it from the other GNU/Lin

My quite ordinary comment about Re: GR to remove non-free...

As foreword: please note that I can't figure the consequences that it can give stopping to provide bug track facilities. >then Debian will no longer provide the >storage, bandwidth, and bug tracking facilities for non-free packages, >including acroread, blender, netscape, jdk, po

RE: Notice: GR to remove non-free support from Debian

On Thu, 8 Jun 2000, Moore, Paul wrote: > From: Brad [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > While getting rid of non-free is a noble goal, i don't feel > > that Debian > > can do it now without losing support from some parts of the Free > > Software community (look at the reaction over KDE, and then t

RE: Notice: GR to remove non-free support from Debian

Title: RE: Notice: GR to remove non-free support from Debian In short: Debian +easier configuration -ideology -:) -Igor Mozetic Answer: FreeBSD + ports + linux compat libs.

Re: Notice: GR to remove non-free support from Debian

> Intense debate is already under way. Whether you are for and against > the resolution, let your voice be heard. I find these ideological debates useless and a great waste of resources. It would be much more productive to do some real work like releasing potato, including security fixes for bind

Re: Notice: GR to remove non-free support from Debian

On Thu, 8 Jun 2000, Randy Edwards wrote: >In the Debian developer's mailing list. Feel free to join it and add > your $.02 in if you'd like (like most things in Debian, it's open to all). ... although in the past there had been talk of closing it to posts from non-developers. later (unless

Re: Notice: GR to remove non-free support from Debian

On Thu, 8 Jun 2000, Eric Hagglund wrote: > Where can we get more information on this subject? > Where is this being debated, if at all? debian-{devel,project,vote} I follow -vote; there has been a formal call for votes (CFV), a question regarding the wording of the CFV, and a formal objection to

Re: Notice: GR to remove non-free support from Debian

> Where can we get more information on this subject? > Where is this being debated, if at all? In the Debian developer's mailing list. Feel free to join it and add your $.02 in if you'd like (like most things in Debian, it's open to all). -- Regards, | Does my signature block look out-of-al

Re: Notice: GR to remove non-free support from Debian

I don't think this is a good thing. Debian is a great distribution, and I do agree, the project shouldn't be wasting time with bug trackking (except where its the deb that got a problem). But to do this on a philosophical point is only going to cause problems for the user base and make it less at

Re: Notice: GR to remove non-free support from Debian

On Thu, Jun 08, 2000 at 09:44:56AM +0100, Moore, Paul wrote: > I agree with this sentiment. Debian is by far my preferred Linux > distribution, but the "DFSG free or nothing" attitude is a little hard-core > for me. I don't see any problem with segregating non-DFSG-free stuff from > the fully DFSG

Re: Notice: GR to remove non-free support from Debian

Where can we get more information on this subject? Where is this being debated, if at all? --- Chuan-kai Lin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Just a heads-up guys, > > There is a General Resolution proposed by developer > John Goerzen that > is under discussion on both debian-devel and > debian-proje

Re: Notice: GR to remove non-free support from Debian

> the Social Contract so that Debian will stop distributing non-free > packages. If the GR is passed, then Debian will no longer provide the > storage, bandwidth, and bug tracking facilities for non-free packages, > including acroread, blender, netscape, jdk, povray, trn, and xanim. One huge a

RE: Notice: GR to remove non-free support from Debian

From: Brad [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > While getting rid of non-free is a noble goal, i don't feel > that Debian > can do it now without losing support from some parts of the Free > Software community (look at the reaction over KDE, and then think of > Netscape, LyX, etc etc etc) and without lo

Re: Notice: GR to remove non-free support from Debian

On Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 11:08:02PM -0500, Brad wrote: > > For the curious, the command i used to find non-free packages was: > grep-status -F Status ' install' | grep-status -s Package -F Section \ > non-free - or you could install the vrms package. -- Ethan Benson http://www.alaska.net/~erb

Re: Notice: GR to remove non-free support from Debian

On Thu, Jun 08, 2000 at 01:25:13AM +, Chuan-kai Lin wrote: > > There is a General Resolution proposed by developer John Goerzen that > is under discussion on both debian-devel and debian-project, maybe also > a few others that I am not aware of. The nature of the GR is to amend > the Social C

Re: Notice: GR to remove non-free support from Debian

On 8 Jun 2000, Chuan-kai Lin wrote: > There is a General Resolution proposed by developer John Goerzen that > is under discussion on both debian-devel and debian-project, maybe also > a few others that I am not aware of. The nature of the GR is to amend > the Social Contract so that Debian will s

Notice: GR to remove non-free support from Debian

Just a heads-up guys, There is a General Resolution proposed by developer John Goerzen that is under discussion on both debian-devel and debian-project, maybe also a few others that I am not aware of. The nature of the GR is to amend the Social Contract so that Debian will stop distributing non-f