Re: PEP 453 affects Debian packaging of Python packages

2013-09-20 Thread Thomas Goirand
On 09/18/2013 11:41 PM, Piotr Ożarowski wrote: >> 4) Python modules from dpkg are borderline useless for developers. We >> package modules so that apps can use them, not so that people can >> develop with them. > > nobody forces Python/Ruby/... developers to use libraries prepared by >

Re: PEP 453 affects Debian packaging of Python packages

2013-09-20 Thread Thomas Goirand
On 09/19/2013 12:55 AM, Thomas Kluyver wrote: > On 18 September 2013 08:41, Piotr Ożarowski > wrote: > > so instead of reinventing the wheel and trying to make something that > works everywhere they should make it easier for others to convert > whatever they p

Re: Disabling pip for root?

2013-09-20 Thread Thomas Goirand
On 09/19/2013 05:26 PM, W. Martin Borgert wrote: > On 2013-09-18 09:36, Paul Tagliamonte wrote: >> 1) pip isn't for global package management, for this is stupid. If we >> disabled root use of pip, I think we'd all be a bit happier. > > Very quick and very dirty patch attached. > >> 4) P

Re: Disabling pip for root?

2013-09-20 Thread Thomas Goirand
On Fri Sep 20 2013 07:48:07 PM HKT, Paul R. Tagliamonte wrote: > Why not see if upstream pip wants to add an optional dpkg install method > when using root on a dpkgey system? Slightly hackish but at least itd > reduce suck. Very good idea indeed! Thomas -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-p

Re: Disabling pip for root?

2013-09-20 Thread Paul R. Tagliamonte
Why not see if upstream pip wants to add an optional dpkg install method when using root on a dpkgey system? Slightly hackish but at least itd reduce suck. Or disable root pip. Either way is fine T On Sep 20, 2013 4:30 AM, "Thomas Goirand" wrote: > On 09/19/2013 05:26 PM, W. Martin Borgert wrot

Re: PEP 453 affects Debian packaging of Python packages

2013-09-20 Thread Piotr Ożarowski
[Thomas Goirand, 2013-09-20] > Though my debpypi isn't good enough to be > released, I heard Piotr wrote the same kind of tool. > > Shouldn't we go the same way, and encourage our users to use a kind of > wrapper around pip, so that they really get a Debian package installed > instead of a "pip in

Re: PEP 453 affects Debian packaging of Python packages

2013-09-20 Thread Tshepang Lekhonkhobe
On Fri, Sep 20, 2013 at 2:14 PM, Piotr Ożarowski wrote: > [Thomas Goirand, 2013-09-20] >> Though my debpypi isn't good enough to be >> released, I heard Piotr wrote the same kind of tool. >> >> Shouldn't we go the same way, and encourage our users to use a kind of >> wrapper around pip, so that th

Re: [PATCH] Support :any architecture qualifiers for multiarch

2013-09-20 Thread Jakub Wilk
* Steve Langasek , 2013-09-19, 16:42: any proposals on how to detect packages that import ctypes It's not necessarily only ctypes. What are the other cases? struct.unpack() with native order comes to mind. (other than parsing sources, please ;) Don't detect anything. Add an option (say, -

Re: PEP 453 affects Debian packaging of Python packages

2013-09-20 Thread Thomas Kluyver
On 20 September 2013 01:11, Thomas Goirand wrote: > > From a developer point of view: this leaves you dependent on other > > people to get the latest release of your software to users, which can be > > very frustrating. For instance, I'm a developer for IPython: we made a > > 1.0 release over a m

Re: PEP 453 affects Debian packaging of Python packages

2013-09-20 Thread Paul Tagliamonte
On Fri, Sep 20, 2013 at 10:46:14AM -0700, Thomas Kluyver wrote: > I try to get involved with Debian packaging. But, to be blunt, it is a slow, Debian works at a slower pace. We make sound technical decisions, over all. It's annoying to people who want results and want them now, but it's something

Re: PEP 453 affects Debian packaging of Python packages

2013-09-20 Thread Zygmunt Krynicki
Hi Paul. Keep in mind that despite my strong opinions I'm doing my best to be constructive with what I say below. W dniu pią, wrz 20, 2013 o 7:52 ,nadawca Paul Tagliamonte napisał: On Fri, Sep 20, 2013 at 10:46:14AM -0700, Thomas Kluyver wrote: I try to get involved with Debian packaging.

Re: PEP 453 affects Debian packaging of Python packages

2013-09-20 Thread Thomas Kluyver
On 20 September 2013 10:52, Paul Tagliamonte wrote: > If a library breaks API because the maintainer wanted another toy > rewrite, we're not going to upload it and break half the archive. That's > silly. > This condescending attitude towards developers ('another toy rewrite') doesn't help. Work

Re: PEP 453 affects Debian packaging of Python packages

2013-09-20 Thread Paul Tagliamonte
On Fri, Sep 20, 2013 at 11:40:48AM -0700, Thomas Kluyver wrote: > This condescending attitude towards developers ('another toy rewrite') doesn't I am a Python developer. Full time. For work. That uses pypi for almost everything. This happens a lot. Don't take this as me trashing on Python or Pyt

Re: PEP 453 affects Debian packaging of Python packages

2013-09-20 Thread Elena ``of Valhalla''
On 2013-09-20 at 10:46:14 -0700, Thomas Kluyver wrote: > - Write a 'how to keep your distro packager happy' guide for developers. > E.g. many Python developers don't know that distros will move data files to > /usr/share, but when you do know, it's easy to write code so that the patch > to achieve

Re: PEP 453 affects Debian packaging of Python packages

2013-09-20 Thread W. Martin Borgert
On 2013-09-20 13:52, Paul Tagliamonte wrote: > It's not about keeping the libraries up to date, it's about keeping the > applications up to date. ... > Hell, we shouldn't even introduce a module unless it has an app using > it. I tend to disagree here (slightly). Too me, it is very important, that

Re: PEP 453 affects Debian packaging of Python packages

2013-09-20 Thread Thomas Kluyver
On 20 September 2013 12:08, Paul Tagliamonte wrote: > Don't take this as me trashing on Python or Pythonistas. If you want to > talk > about this in person, I'm usually at PyCon. I'm also usually in the > packaging > BOF. Perhaps we can bring some of this up there this year? > Unfortunately, I d

Re: PEP 453 affects Debian packaging of Python packages

2013-09-20 Thread Andrey Rahmatullin
On Fri, Sep 20, 2013 at 03:44:05PM -0700, Thomas Kluyver wrote: > That seems like an unlikely problem in real world cases - how often will > two people decide to package the same, currently unpackaged, piece of > software, within the couple of days or so before the first one publishes > their work.

Re: PEP 453 affects Debian packaging of Python packages

2013-09-20 Thread Thomas Kluyver
On 20 September 2013 16:00, Andrey Rahmatullin wrote: > Packaging often takes much longer than a couple of days, especially if the > packager is not experienced. And when the work is published somewhere, but > not yet uploaded, there is no general way to know if it's published and > where. > And

Re: PEP 453 affects Debian packaging of Python packages

2013-09-20 Thread Scott Kitterman
On Friday, September 20, 2013 15:44:05 Thomas Kluyver wrote: > On 20 September 2013 12:08, Paul Tagliamonte wrote: > > Don't take this as me trashing on Python or Pythonistas. If you want to > > talk > > about this in person, I'm usually at PyCon. I'm also usually in the > > packaging > > BOF. Per

Re: PEP 453 affects Debian packaging of Python packages

2013-09-20 Thread Thomas Goirand
PLEASE everyone, I'm registered to the list, and adding me as Cc: is breaking my filters... Thomas -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-python-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/523d1d76.60...@deb

Re: PEP 453 affects Debian packaging of Python packages

2013-09-20 Thread Antoine Musso
Le 21/09/13 01:17, Thomas Kluyver a écrit : > > And how many inexperienced packagers will start by filing an ITP bug? Or > indeed by searching for existing ITP bugs? More likely, the bug only > gets filed when they've prepared a working package and Lintian is > complaining about the lack of a line

Re: PEP 453 affects Debian packaging of Python packages

2013-09-20 Thread Andrey Rahmatullin
On Fri, Sep 20, 2013 at 04:17:25PM -0700, Thomas Kluyver wrote: > > Packaging often takes much longer than a couple of days, especially if the > > packager is not experienced. And when the work is published somewhere, but > > not yet uploaded, there is no general way to know if it's published and >

Re: PEP 453 affects Debian packaging of Python packages

2013-09-20 Thread Andrey Rahmatullin
On Sat, Sep 21, 2013 at 07:02:59AM +0200, Antoine Musso wrote: > I find the ITP/wnpp annoying as well. I usually end up browsing > http://www.debian.org/devel/wnpp/ , opening all links then searching for > my package :-] I use Google for this. -- WBR, wRAR signature.asc Description: Digital sig

Re: PEP 453 affects Debian packaging of Python packages

2013-09-20 Thread Ben Finney
Antoine Musso writes: > I keep forgetting filling an ITP. It is usually caught on final review > because for some reason lintian is not being run by default by my > packaging chain :-( For ‘pbuilder’, you can add a hook that automatically runs Lintian on every package it builds. Other packaging

Re: PEP 453 affects Debian packaging of Python packages

2013-09-20 Thread Etienne Millon
* Antoine Musso [130921 08:43]: > I find the ITP/wnpp annoying as well. I usually end up browsing > http://www.debian.org/devel/wnpp/ , opening all links then searching > for my package :-] I then bootup an instance and try to remember > to report the bug against the 'wnpp' package. FYI, you ca