Jonas Smedegaard writes:
> On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 06:23:12PM -0700, Russ Allbery wrote:
>> It seems like overkill to me, but I guess I don't really care. But if
>> the source is only URLs, then for some of my packages I either need to
>> omit it or duplicate Homep
l use the
>> field name no matter what it's called, though.
> I feel it is not, but if you judge this as nitpicking, I shall stop.
Sorry, that probably came across poorly. I was referring to my own
contribution as bikeshed painting, not to yours. I'm probably making too
much of this
many, many other problems with our current
practices.
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Meeting one's fellow developer in person also (at least for me) helped a
lot in turning random political content I strongly disagree with from
something that pissed me off into something that just makes me roll my
eyes and remember the good conversation we had. :)
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Ben Finney writes:
> Russ Allbery writes:
>> The little minus next to someone's name seems to deal with that
>> reasonably well if one doesn't feel up to ignoring it.
> I get no “little minus” next to anyone's name on the Planet Debian
> syndication
Ben Finney writes:
> Russ Allbery writes:
>> Anyway, presumably decent feed reader software either has or could have
>> added to it a similar feature to suppress particular posts from the
>> collective feed by various criteria. The authorship information is in
>> th
d by how many people
are endorsing it. But one of the points of Planet Debian is that it
includes all of the project, in all of our disagreements.)
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Raphael Hertzog writes:
> On Mon, 08 Nov 2010, Russ Allbery wrote:
>> Where I personally draw the line is that I'm fairly comfortable with
>> Debian-involved people advertising their own services on Planet Debian:
>> their own companies, their own consulting services,
und. They're culture-dependent, unlikely to
be universal, and not very likely to change anyone's behavior.
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Michael Gilbert writes:
> On Wed, 10 Nov 2010 13:56:18 -0800, Russ Allbery wrote:
>> I respectfully disagree. Depending on the context and the situation, I
>> may consider someone asking me to give them money to be intrusive and
>> obnoxious, and I reserve the right to com
Russ Allbery writes:
> Michael Gilbert writes:
>> On Wed, 10 Nov 2010 13:56:18 -0800, Russ Allbery wrote:
>>> I respectfully disagree. Depending on the context and the situation,
>>> I may consider someone asking me to give them money to be intrusive
>>> an
quite uncomfortable with hosting my web site, which as
previously mentioned has some affiliate links to an on-line bookstore, on
the Stanford network even though it was on my personal hardware, and felt
much more comfortable about that once I moved my personal web site to my
own VMs hosted elsewher
eople like and are interested in.
I would have absolutely no concerns about such a thing on Planet, provided
that the links were constructed such that they didn't become accidental
web bugs.
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ly do.
I suspect a blacklist on the Planet Debian side could kill most of the
bugs after looking over Page Info. I personally blocked four different
sites and that got 95% of them.
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volved with in Debian.
Yeah, I think Source should be optional for native packages.
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Lars Wirzenius writes:
> On to, 2011-01-13 at 17:15 -0800, Russ Allbery wrote:
>> Yeah, I think Source should be optional for native packages.
> Would anyone oppose making such a change? Does Policy allow it? If
> there's consensus for, and it's ok by Policy, then
ifically requested this, since one of the
purposes to which I want to put DEP-5 requires some way of specifying the
collective copyright and license for a package as a whole, regardless of
the individual licenses of some files. This is not the same thing as a
Files: * block that's overridden by
ed under compatible terms. In that case, it's nice
to be able to just specify a general package license and make it
explicit that one is not claiming to have a comprehensive listing of all
files with their copyright and license statements.
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Jonas Smedegaard writes:
> On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 12:23:44AM -0800, Russ Allbery wrote:
>> But there are two other main reasons why I want an overall package
>> license:
>> * It's common to release GPL'd software that includes some
>> 2-clause-BSD-li
Jonas Smedegaard writes:
> On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 09:32:38AM -0800, Russ Allbery wrote:
>> Jonas Smedegaard writes:
>>> I.e. regarding my example, even if DEP5 should be corrected to also
>>> mention License: in header paragraph, I should _still_ below that
>>
-domain keyword for things that aren't actually in the public
domain but just have a license saying "this is in the public domain" or
"you can treat this as if it's in the public domain," since in many
countries that use Debian those works are *not* in the public do
igh for upstream statements about licensing. It's much less likely that
upstream will be wrong when they declare the license to be an MIT or
2-clause BSD license. But misunderstanding of public domain is
widespread.
Hell, I have stuff of my own that's distributed under a license that sa
? Often this sort of thing ends up being essentially a
marketing tactic by the vendors involved in developing the specification
rather than being something useful for improving technical quality.
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x27;s employer goes south. Employers are
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e-mail sent to a work address, for example.
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ed to refer to the associated product and not some different product.
However, at the point that one is making that argument, one is well into
lawyer territory with murky and inconsistent outcomes in trials.
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Ben Finney writes:
> That doesn't seem right at all, though; English “Ian” is not pronounced
> “ee'-en”, but “ee'-ən”.
I think that depends on your dialect. I've heard both. (The difference
is fairly subtle.)
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ocument,
which is not part of Policy, just managed as part of the debian-policy
package and via the same process.
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I'd set an expiration date on it from
the start and extended it periodically, it would have expired now and it
would be clear that it's no longer my key.
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o be worth
explaining.
But we should probably decide explicitly if that's something we want to
rule out.
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d the feedback in this thread, I think
> there is a general preference for the second option. Russ, does this
> meet your needs?
Yup. That option seems fine to me.
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age in each paragraph type. Patch is
> attached.
> Does this look ok? Does anyone think there's a better way to do this?
> Have I introduced any errors in the conversion?
Yes, please. This looks great. Thank you!
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to be used in
copyright notices for software owned by Stanford because it's the official
legal name under which the university holds property. See:
http://otl.stanford.edu/inventors/inventors_copyright.html
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Russ Allbery writes:
> I noticed in reviewing another patch that the Copyright header is a
> line-based list. One unfortunate implication of that is that this means
> lines are required to be longer than 80 columns if the name of the
> copyright holder is long. For example:
>
ambiguity for humans. However, SPDX also doesn't list the Expat license
(under that name), so using MIT for the Expat license would bring us more
in line with SPDX's registrations.
I can see pluses and minuses either way. I think I'm not quite willing to
support the change, but i
Sorry about the bogus subject line. For some reason, our spam filtering
software (from Sophos) is absolutely convinced that SPDX is a spam hosting
site (and has persisted in that belief for well over a year now).
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is probably the simplest.
It occurs to me that an alternative would be to say that line-based lists
support something akin to RFC 5322 continuation semantics: if a line
starts with two or more spaces, it's taken as a continuation of the
previous line. Then you could do:
Copyright: 2001 Russ A
space the continuation lines over by several more
spaces, which in a free-form field indicates unwrappable text (just as in
the Description field for a package).
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ay:
Formatted text, no synopsis: one or more free-form copyright
statement(s). Any formatting is permitted; see the examples below for
some ideas for how to structure the field to make it easier to read.
instead?
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d lists are not an invention of DEP-5 -- they're a standard field
type in Policy -- so I don't think there's a huge need to get rid of them.
They're a fairly natural structure for Upstream-Contact, which I don't
think poses the same problem.
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and improve even faster, and I
certainly wouldn't want to stand in the way of that, but it's not part of
my metric of success.
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licenses. That is, you
> can have "Files:" && "Copyright:" || "Files:" && "License:", but you
> can't have "Files:" && "Copyright:" && "License:"
I think this is way too much overhead. I
not *require* any
of that. This is probably going to require special language around the
case of a Files: * stanza.
This is something we were discussing in the previous round of discussion
last December, and I'm increasingly convinced we really need to get this
out of the way somehow and not
t individual files within that package have headers that look like:
Copyright 2008 Russ Allbery
or:
Copyright Joe Smith 1995
with the same GPL notice (so there's no ambiguity about any files under a
different license). Does the Debian package maintainer need to include
all those oth
ng copyright and license
status in debian/copyright.
but I don't think people have read that as saying what we're trying to say
above, although I believe that's the intention. Maybe because it
conflates two things: a change in Policy, and not requiring additional
informat
the issues that I come up with (if any).
However, I think it's perfectly reasonable for me to do that within the
time frame that you mention above, and I don't think the process should
block on that work, so the deadline you propose sounds reasonable to me.
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t's very easy to blunder into an argument that
one never intended and cause significant offense.
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move forward anyway.
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rietary license with the difficult of renaming available as the stick.
I think those two things are entirely consistent.
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with a
our stable maintenance policies, and I think this is a
good example of such a license.
If I were packaging such a piece of software, I would proactively remove
that clause from the license (nothing seems to prevent me from doing so),
which would resolve the whole problem. That's
eir
holders and substantial public confusion already exists.
Note, though, that as I understand it people have to actually *use* the
permissive grant that you've given them and create confusing products to
undermine your mark. If you let people do it, but no one does, that's a
differe
sort of purge of icky licenses
> on their side.
We would need to start by identifying the licenses that we care enough
about to demand that they be purged. I suspect that list may be of zero
size, mostly on the "care enough about" front.
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generate announcing our membership) that Debian is not adopting
the OSI license review process for Debian and that Debian will continue to
conduct its own license review as we do now, and that we continue to
disagree with OSI in some areas on what licenses should be considered
free.
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document. Review of all the changes
is, of course, welcome.
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exception is in effect a dual-licensed work that can be redistributed
either under the GPL-2+, or under the
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on this specification over the years. The
- following alphabetical list is incomplete, please suggest missing people:
+ following alphabetical list is incomplete; please suggest missing people:
Russ Allbery,
Ben Finney,
Sam Hocevar,
@@ -134,43 +137,47 @@
Single-line
Russ Allbery writes:
> @@ -869,8 +908,12 @@ Copyright 2009, 2010 Angela Watts
> GFDL
>
>
> -GNU Free Documentation License 1.0, or
> -http://spdx.org/licenses/GFDL-1.1";>1.1.
&
uot; on further
consideration since British spelling is used elsewhere in the document.
All of my changes have now been pushed to the Debian Policy repository and
the document is in the state in which I intend to release it tomorrow as
part of the Policy 3.9.3 release. Please review and send any
x27;s well-settled case law that phone books cannot be copyrighted,
since they are comprehensive and hence have no creative editorial
judgement, but cookbooks can be copyrighted because they do involve
creative editorial judgement. (Individual recipes cannot be copyrighted
because they are fact
e
comfortable with the implications for such modifications as security
support (either because the rebranding is relatively easy or because we're
fairly certain the trademark holder is not going to object to security
support and similar stable maintenance).
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otype, etc.) or behavioral.
It's not limited to gender, but that's where it most frequently comes up.
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directly, but it should hopefully communicate the basic idea.
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uot;legal"
section of a web site. (Which may be a bit too much to aspire to when
we're a large and diverse project; Dreamwidth has the advantage that their
diversity statement only had to be signed by two people when they first
wrote it.)
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I'm
not, they seem like a bunch of fluff. But I do think it can have a
subtle, long-term effect.
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7;re
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ontains grey
areas, which I think people have to sort out for themselves.
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place where difference supposedly
unrelated to the goal of the community can be ignored completely, if it's
even possible for humans to *ever* reach such a place.
The first step in being diverse is being *aware*. You cannot be aware
when you're blind.
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people who are already here. :) And
part (although not all) of the point of a diversity statement is to be a
warm welcome.
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Russ Allbery writes:
> The first step in being diverse is being *aware*. You cannot be aware
> when you're blind.
And, just to point out how hard this is, as well as to further illustrate
the general point that any post pointing out a spelling error contains at
least one spelling
tive debate, when applied to, say, literary criticism,
but that's not the connotation most people will take from it).
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y of the
terms of their contract with us on any derivative distribution that
happens to import Debian web browser packages?
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"dE ." writes:
> On 03/30/12 07:32, Russ Allbery wrote:
>> Is DuckDuckGo aware of the fact that Debian is upstream of a number of
>> derivative distributions that just import our packages, and if we
>> modify our packages to do this, other distributions will be c
export of
open source software, but I haven't been following the details closely.
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on-technical areas and welcome such contributors as part
> of our community.
> - >8 --- >8 ---
Works for me, with or without the differences mentioned in other replies.
Thank you again, Francesca, for your work on this.
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ing a GR on that
as well. Legal issues are always highly contentious, and it's easier to
tell people to follow that position with their Debian work when it's been
voted on as a GR.
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gotten stuck in a mail queue somewhere and is nearly a month old. So if
it looks like a replay of an earlier conversation, that's because it is. :)
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Ian Jackson writes:
> Russ Allbery writes:
>> Personally, I think there would be a lot of merit in holding a GR on
>> that as well. Legal issues are always highly contentious, and it's
>> easier to tell people to follow that position with their Debian work
>>
uting or
creating derivative works of this work.
Whether this actually places the work in the public domain is debatable
and varies by jurisdiction, but it relies on estoppel to provide
sufficient implicit license to be the equivalent.
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(or is willing to
spend a bunch of time nit-picking changes in pull requests). But for my
packages, I rarely apply contributed patches exactly as-is, so a
development method that doesn't give me the patch and that makes me merge
instead of being able to git am and git commit --amend is
ent with any current
mail or news client. I see you're using VM, so I'm now really surprised.
Does VM not just quietly handle this for you? Gnus has for something like
ten years or more.
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uses of the trademark by
Stanford itself, so the advice is relevant to Debian-internal as well.
Yes, if we "misuse" our own trademark, obviously there's no legal problem,
but, as I understand it, it can put us in a situation where we can't
defend the trademark any more.
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e a
trademark.
All of this is well in line with the legal advice I've heard in other
contexts about trademarks.
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NA a new media type, for
> instance text/vnd.debian.copyright, for the machine-readable copyright
> files following the format at
> http://www.debian.org/doc/packaging-manuals/copyright-format/1.0/.
> What do you think ?
Sounds like a great idea to me.
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e complex than dealing with IANA,
unless you're trying to reigster something with a registry whose criteria
is to require a standard or RFC. There are some of those, but most of
them just require expert review, which is *way* easier than driving the
RFC process.
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sanitised as usual. Does anybody see other
> potential security issues ?
No, your security considerations seem reasonable to me.
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with
ation itself.
That works for me.
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Archive: http:/
much content into Planet Debian, but I can undo that and give
Planet Debian a full feed if people would really prefer.
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on reactions, people seem to think I should send them, so I'm
going to go ahead and do that, and then see what feedback I get and if it
bothers anyone.
Thanks!
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that high-functioning groups develop and maintain ethical
standards is to discuss ethical quandries in public.
I'm not seeing any evidence on this thread (and, indeed, directly
contrary assertions from people I think we all have reason to trust) that
the withdrawn offer had an
t imagine if there is a deficit
> for Debian or some bigger disaster in 6 months - do we want people to be
> speculating about the role this "sponsor" played in bringing Debian to
> Le Camp?
This argument seems circular. I'm unimpressed by attempts to raise
concerns and then sim
Ian Jackson writes:
> Russ Allbery writes:
>> That seems to be exactly what happened.
> No. My reading of Moray's message is that some members of the Debconf
> teams used the existence of the donation as an argument in favour of
> selecting Le Camp as the site.
At l
run it would be nice if it would take over some of the
metadata requirements of debian/copyright (all the stuff that isn't actual
legal notices, basically). We currently have that information spread
across multiple files; if we're going to go to the work of introducing a
new file
Paul Wise writes:
> On Fri, Jan 4, 2013 at 12:59 AM, Russ Allbery wrote:
>> Of course, the other issue that this DEP raises is how much sense it
>> makes to put all this stuff in the source package, either in
>> debian/control or in a new file, given that most of these fiel
ise the
DFSG, it would be nice to make this clearer, since it's come up in some
difficult cases (such as with various drafts of the LaTeX license due to
the way that LaTeX components work).
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Uoti Urpala writes:
> Russ Allbery wrote:
>> DFSG #4 is narrower than the possible actions that could be required by
>> a trademark policy, at least in the way that we've normally interpreted
>> it, since we've not interpreted it as allowing the renaming to affec
get the impression that a lot
of people are starting programming that way: building little bits of code
to wrap Twitter or Facebook APIs to do little automated things they want
to do.
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nes's uploads" would come across as less confrontational and more
inquisitive, and I'm sure you still would have gotten responses.
Thanks!
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in the past.
Doesn't Debian as a whole also have nearly as many assets as all other
projects in the Software Freedom Conservancy put together? It may not be
healthy for them to take on Debian, as we could fairly easily turn into
the tail that wags the dog. I think they mostly deal with much s
assuming that work without a specific license is
distributed under the same license as the larger work is ubiquitous in the
open source world. So it's not really creating any new problem.
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ically has
the same amount of effect as putting "the moon is made of green cheese" in
your packaging. (There may be some impact on seeking statutory damages in
countries like the US where damages can change based on the presence of a
copyright notice, but that's pretty much an edge cas
of the law,
and they're probably all at least slightly different (sometimes
significantly different in countries with a stronger moral rights
doctrine than the United States).
--
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) <http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
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