‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On Thursday, February 20, 2020 10:50 PM, Thomas Goirand wrote:
> On 2/20/20 8:50 AM, Daniel Baumann wrote:
>
> > On 2/20/20 8:30 AM, Didier 'OdyX' Raboud wrote:
> >
> > > For the record; I have absolutely no doubt that Sam is working to benefit
> > > Debian. Bu
Sam,
I did not read any anti-Debian or anti-DebConf sentiment in the Montreal
announcement. Literally all it says (second paragraph, first sentence) is that
they are unhappy with the location. Nothing more.
I think you are entirely overreacting. I find it disappointing.
Best,
-Steve
sig
On 2/20/20 8:50 AM, Daniel Baumann wrote:
> On 2/20/20 8:30 AM, Didier 'OdyX' Raboud wrote:
>> For the record; I have _absolutely no doubt_ that Sam is working to benefit
>> Debian. But in that particular instance, I happen to strongly disagree that
>> his actions have a positive effect on Debia
micah anderson writes:
> Ansgar writes:
>>> The crux of my strong disagreement is here: as DPL, you just _framed_ the
>>> Montreal miniDebConf as a protest.
>>
>> I think the announcement by the organizers framed the conference as
>> being organized specifically to support the BDS movement
>
> Yo
Ansgar writes:
>>
>> The crux of my strong disagreement is here: as DPL, you just _framed_ the
>> Montreal miniDebConf as a protest.
>
> I think the announcement by the organizers framed the conference as
> being organized specifically to support the BDS movement
You might think that but I thin
On Thu, Feb 20, 2020 at 11:37:23AM -0800, Russ Allbery wrote:
> Ansgar writes:
>
> > If you have 80-90%+ of parliament, from pretty much all parties, agree
> > on something, then it *is* pretty much as uncontroversional as it gets
> > there.
>
> This is an entertaining example to use in a projec
Ansgar writes:
> If you have 80-90%+ of parliament, from pretty much all parties, agree
> on something, then it *is* pretty much as uncontroversional as it gets
> there.
This is an entertaining example to use in a project whose mission is free
software. I'm pretty sure that by that standard it'
Hi Sam
On 2020/02/20 15:44, Sam Hartman wrote:
> I really hope that supporting our people doing the work at DC20 is
> uncontroversial.
During DC19 I've spoken about this topic to dozens (as in, literally
dozens) of people who have approached me who care about DebConf and who
have contributed to i
On Thu, 2020-02-20 at 17:11 +, Ian Jackson wrote:
> But my main point is this: Ansgar asserted that it is uncontroversial
> that the BDS movement is antisemitic. Obviously that was not true.
As I wrote it's only as uncontroversional as, say, climate change or
usefulness of vaccines is. Of co
Felix Lechner writes ("Re: Request to Mini DebConf Montreal Organizers: Fight
Israel not the DC20 Team"):
> Hi Ian,
>
> On Thu, Feb 20, 2020 at 3:50 AM Ian Jackson
> wrote:
> >
> > The BDS movement is not antisemitic.
>
> Please have a look at this repor
Ian Jackson dijo [Thu, Feb 20, 2020 at 11:50:26AM +]:
> Ansgar writes ("Re: Request to Mini DebConf Montreal Organizers: Fight Israel
> not the DC20 Team"):
> > I think the announcement by the organizers framed the conference as
> > being organized specifically to
Hello Debian Community
Criticism of the BJP government of India is not considered to be anti Hindu.
Criticism of Myanmar because of their treatment of the Rohingyas is not
considered to be anti Buddhist.
Criticism of Saudi Arabia because of their treatment of women is not
considered to be an
On Thu, Feb 20, 2020 at 05:03:50PM +0100, Dato Simó wrote:
> > If we force you, it is inherently distancing. If you do it on
> > your own, it can be constructive.
>
> This sentence is beyond the pale for a PL.
How so? The project, including various of its apparatus will ask people
to self-cens
> If we force you, it is inherently distancing. If you do it on
> your own, it can be constructive.
This sentence is beyond the pale for a PL.
-d
[This will be my last message on this thread.
I go away on vacation tomorrow.]
> "Didier" == Didier 'OdyX' Raboud writes:
Didier> The crux of my strong disagreement is here: as DPL, you just
Didier> _framed_ the Montreal miniDebConf as a protest.
This is a case where perception is
Hi Ian,
On Thu, Feb 20, 2020 at 3:50 AM Ian Jackson
wrote:
>
> The BDS movement is not antisemitic.
Please have a look at this report, especially the final page.
http://bit.ly/TheNewAnti-SemitesReport
Kind regards
Felix Lechner
Ansgar writes ("Re: Request to Mini DebConf Montreal Organizers: Fight Israel
not the DC20 Team"):
> I think the announcement by the organizers framed the conference as
> being organized specifically to support the BDS movement, a movement
> that is uncontroversially seen as
Michael Banck writes:
> On Thu, Feb 20, 2020 at 10:02:53AM +0100, Ansgar wrote:
>> the BDS movement, a movement that is uncontroversially seen as
>> antisemitic.
>
> Only a Sith deals in absolutes.
So you are a Sith?
But yes, some people also find climate change or usefulness of vaccines
(autism!
On Thu, Feb 20, 2020 at 10:02:53AM +0100, Ansgar wrote:
> the BDS movement, a movement that is uncontroversially seen as
> antisemitic.
Only a Sith deals in absolutes.
Didier 'OdyX' Raboud writes:
> Le mercredi, 19 février 2020, 16.17:00 h CET Sam Hartman a écrit :
>> Debian is Asked to Support a Protest of a Debian Activity
>> =
>>
>> The Montreal organizers could have simply organized an alternative for
>
On 2/20/20 8:30 AM, Didier 'OdyX' Raboud wrote:
> For the record; I have _absolutely no doubt_ that Sam is working to benefit
> Debian. But in that particular instance, I happen to strongly disagree that
> his actions have a positive effect on Debian (the community).
+1
Regards,
Daniel
Le jeudi, 20 février 2020, 01.14:19 h CET Anthony DeRobertis a écrit :
> On 2/19/20 2:00 PM, Didier 'OdyX' Raboud wrote:
> > At the risk of poking a little fun at recent US politics: this _really
> > really_ reads as a /quid pro quo/.
>
> Not really; a quid pro quo there means more than the litera
(Re-reading your statement).
Le mercredi, 19 février 2020, 16.17:00 h CET Sam Hartman a écrit :
> Debian is Asked to Support a Protest of a Debian Activity
> =
>
> The Montreal organizers could have simply organized an alternative for
> thos
On 2/19/20 2:00 PM, Didier 'OdyX' Raboud wrote:
At the risk of poking a little fun at recent US politics: this _really really_
reads as a /quid pro quo/.
Not really; a quid pro quo there means more than the literal "something
for something". Otherwise going to the grocery store and buying an a
Hi,
On 19/02/2020 12:17, Sam Hartman wrote:
First, please acknowledge that the combination of your political
announcement and asking for Debian support creates a negative perception
that might tend to undermine Debian's support for its volunteers. That
may not be what you intend, but it is a c
Le mercredi, 19 février 2020, 20.04:12 h CET Sam Hartman a écrit :
> Then we miss an opportunity for the Montreal organizers to clearly and
> unambiguously say to the world and Debian their fight is with the
> government of Israel not with the DC20 volunteers.
They never said otherwise. They neve
On 2020/02/19 21:04, Sam Hartman wrote:
> Then we miss an opportunity for the Montreal organizers to clearly and
> unambiguously say to the world and Debian their fight is with the
> government of Israel not with the DC20 volunteers.
> I end up more disappointed in the world.
> Others in the projec
On Wed, Feb 19, 2020 at 07:04:01PM +, Holger Levsen wrote:
> this. freaking unbelievable.
so if we decided in that GR to go full blown for systemd, would it be good to
spend Debian ressources on an event working on other init systems? absolutly,
i'd say. or, when some cpu architecture gets va
> "Didier" == Didier 'OdyX' Raboud writes:
still saying "one way is to withdraw your budget
Didier> request (…); if that is not your choice, I _ask_ you to find
Didier> some other way". So what happens if they put your request to
Didier> /dev/null, if you're not withdrawing the D
On Wed, Feb 19, 2020 at 08:00:07PM +0100, Didier 'OdyX' Raboud wrote:
> I'm really disappointed and sad that you found no other way to support both
> the DebConf20 _and_ the Montreal miniDebConf teams other than asking the
> latter explicitly to do without Debian's logistical support.
this. frea
I have taken my frustration to Sam, and he clarified one thing:
Le mercredi, 19 février 2020, 16.17:00 h CET Sam Hartman a écrit :
> So, I'm going to approve the budget with one change requested by the
> DebConf committee. But see below.
I (now) understand this to mean "both the budget and the u
Sam Hartman writes:
> I think the easiest way for you to do that is to withdraw your budget
> request and for you to do the conference logistics on your own. In
> effect, accept the idea that putting this too close to Debian puts the
> project in an awkward position and remove that. If we forc
TL;DR: Between the pro-boycott language in the Montreal announcement and
the request for a Debian approved budget and logistical resources, The
Mini DebConf Montreal organizers have created a perception that they are
undermining the hard work of the DebConf 20 team. I ask them to take a
positive
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