On Sat, May 15, 2010 at 11:24:27AM -0400, Steve Langasek wrote:
> On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 04:27:01PM +0200, Martin Schulze wrote:
> > I would rather not complicate the CD+DVD building process even more to
> > produce non-free images. There are so many images that need to be
> > created already.
>
* Kurt Roeckx [2010-05-24 16:43:23 CEST]:
> On Mon, May 24, 2010 at 02:13:30PM +0100, Steve McIntyre wrote:
> > Yup, definitely. We already have an "unofficial non-free" area on
> > cdimage.debian.org which is where we've been pushing the firmware
> > zip/tar.gz files already. I'll set up the extr
Petter Reinholdtsen wrote:
>
> [Steve McIntyre]
> > Yup, definitely. We already have an "unofficial non-free" area on
> > cdimage.debian.org which is where we've been pushing the firmware
> > zip/tar.gz files already. I'll set up the extra images to be dropped
> > in there.
>
> A few days ago, I
Steve McIntyre schrieb am Monday, den 24. May 2010:
Hi,
*snip*
> >> I'm guessing that we're not likely to want the extra images for all
> >> architectures: i386/amd64/powerpc(?). Any others?
> >
> >I have no idea. I only use i386 and amd64. :)
>
> Quite. Anybody else?
I think we should also in
On Mon, May 24, 2010 at 04:43:23PM +0200, Kurt Roeckx wrote:
>On Mon, May 24, 2010 at 02:13:30PM +0100, Steve McIntyre wrote:
>> Yup, definitely. We already have an "unofficial non-free" area on
>> cdimage.debian.org which is where we've been pushing the firmware
>> zip/tar.gz files already. I'll s
On Mon, May 24, 2010 at 03:58:35PM +0200, Petter Reinholdtsen wrote:
>
>[Steve McIntyre]
>> Yup, definitely. We already have an "unofficial non-free" area on
>> cdimage.debian.org which is where we've been pushing the firmware
>> zip/tar.gz files already. I'll set up the extra images to be dropped
On Mon, May 24, 2010 at 02:13:30PM +0100, Steve McIntyre wrote:
> Yup, definitely. We already have an "unofficial non-free" area on
> cdimage.debian.org which is where we've been pushing the firmware
> zip/tar.gz files already. I'll set up the extra images to be dropped
> in there.
It would be nic
[Steve McIntyre]
> Yup, definitely. We already have an "unofficial non-free" area on
> cdimage.debian.org which is where we've been pushing the firmware
> zip/tar.gz files already. I'll set up the extra images to be dropped
> in there.
A few days ago, I extended hw-detect to look for firmware (u)
On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 11:33:11AM +0200, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote:
>
>Early on in this thread [1] I've tried to identify our options, which
>essentially boil down to:
>
>1) have the non-free firmware on the (first) install media, "protected"
> by a BIG FAT WARNING saying that you need non-free f
On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 11:33:11AM +0200, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote:
> On Wed, May 05, 2010 at 06:29:55PM +0200, Kurt Roeckx wrote:
> > So I was wondering what the state is of everything, and what
> > issues people will run into, specially when installing.
>
> So, let me try to wrap-up this discuss
On Wed, May 05, 2010 at 06:29:55PM +0200, Kurt Roeckx wrote:
> So I was wondering what the state is of everything, and what
> issues people will run into, specially when installing.
So, let me try to wrap-up this discussion. I've gather some info from
Ben Hutchings (thanks!) on the actual impact o
Tollef Fog Heen dijo [Thu, May 13, 2010 at 08:04:43AM +0200]:
> ]] Martin Schulze
>
> | I'm sure these modern systems do have USB connectors.
>
> It's quite inconvenient to plug USB sticks into machines which are on
> the other side of the Atlantic ocean.
It is quite convenient to get free tick
Bernd Zeimetz dijo [Sun, May 09, 2010 at 09:01:55PM +0200]:
> > I’ve never had trouble with such hardware. You can plug a virtual USB
> > device with a hd-media boot image, and put the firmwares on the same
> > image.
>
> Right. It works, but it is an annoying extra step to do. And I had more than
On Sat, 2010-05-15 at 11:24 -0400, Steve Langasek wrote:
> On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 04:27:01PM +0200, Martin Schulze wrote:
> > I would rather not complicate the CD+DVD building process even more to
> > produce non-free images. There are so many images that need to be
> > created already.
>
> > I
On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 04:27:01PM +0200, Martin Schulze wrote:
> I would rather not complicate the CD+DVD building process even more to
> produce non-free images. There are so many images that need to be
> created already.
> I would like us to provide non-free firmware blobs that may be
> requir
On 05/13/2010 04:18 AM, Paul Wise wrote:
> On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 7:04 PM, Bernd Zeimetz wrote:
>
>> Using only 'free' software might make them happier, but the first thing
>> people
>> look for is less pain in the ass while installing and maintaining a system.
>> We
>> are not in a perfect wo
On 05/12/2010 09:41 PM, Martin Schulze wrote:
> Bernd Zeimetz wrote:
>> On 05/12/2010 04:27 PM, Martin Schulze wrote:
>>> I would like us to provide non-free firmware blobs that may be
>>> required during installation in tarballs that can be downloaded or -
>>
>> Downloading is exactly the problem.
]] Paul Wise
| Based on these factors I would consider it appropriate to ship two
| copies of the install media, at least while we have non-free and SC
| #5.
I can't speak for everybody else, but for me, it'd be sufficient to have
this support in the d-i images since I tend to either use the min
]] Martin Schulze
| I'm sure these modern systems do have USB connectors.
It's quite inconvenient to plug USB sticks into machines which are on
the other side of the Atlantic ocean.
--
Tollef Fog Heen
UNIX is user friendly, it's just picky about who its friends are
--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email
On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 7:04 PM, Bernd Zeimetz wrote:
> Using only 'free' software might make them happier, but the first thing people
> look for is less pain in the ass while installing and maintaining a system. We
> are not in a perfect world unfortunately, so blaming the hardware vendor is
>
On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 3:41 AM, Martin Schulze wrote:
> I'm sure these modern systems do have USB connectors.
They do have USB, according to advocates of shipping the non-free
firmware in our install media, the problem is when installing remotely
you don't have access to these connectors.
The
On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 04:27:01PM +0200, Martin Schulze wrote:
> I would like us to provide non-free firmware blobs that may be
> required during installation in tarballs that can be downloaded or -
> if this is not possible - be loaded via USB sticks, floppies or
> cdroms.
I thought this was e
Bernd Zeimetz wrote:
> On 05/12/2010 04:27 PM, Martin Schulze wrote:
> > I would like us to provide non-free firmware blobs that may be
> > required during installation in tarballs that can be downloaded or -
>
> Downloading is exactly the problem. A lot of modern "enterprise" network
> hardware (
On 05/12/2010 04:27 PM, Martin Schulze wrote:
> I would rather not complicate the CD+DVD building process even more to
> produce non-free images. There are so many images that need to be
> created already.
And? Creating a full set of images takes 2 hours (if I remember right) now.
Also we don't n
Holger Levsen wrote:
> On Freitag, 7. Mai 2010, Paul Wise wrote:
> > What makes it problematic to modify the install media (initrd I guess)
> > you downloaded and add the firmware?
>
> For quite some people it's very difficult (hi bro!), for some it's impossible
> (hi dad!) and for most of the re
On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 01:05:19PM +0200, Bernd Zeimetz wrote:
> On 05/10/2010 08:33 AM, Holger Levsen wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > On Freitag, 7. Mai 2010, Paul Wise wrote:
> >> What makes it problematic to modify the install media (initrd I guess)
> >> you downloaded and add the firmware?
> >
> > For
On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 01:04:47PM +0200, Bernd Zeimetz wrote:
> On 05/10/2010 01:50 AM, Paul Wise wrote:
> > On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 3:01 AM, Bernd Zeimetz wrote:
> >
> >> Right. It works, but it is an annoying extra step to do. And I had more
> >> than one
> >> customer asking me why Debian is
On 05/10/2010 08:33 AM, Holger Levsen wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On Freitag, 7. Mai 2010, Paul Wise wrote:
>> What makes it problematic to modify the install media (initrd I guess)
>> you downloaded and add the firmware?
>
> For quite some people it's very difficult (hi bro!), for some it's impossible
> (
On 05/10/2010 01:50 AM, Paul Wise wrote:
> On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 3:01 AM, Bernd Zeimetz wrote:
>
>> Right. It works, but it is an annoying extra step to do. And I had more than
>> one
>> customer asking me why Debian is forcing them to do such an extra step and
>> why
>> they should not just
Hi,
On Freitag, 7. Mai 2010, Paul Wise wrote:
> What makes it problematic to modify the install media (initrd I guess)
> you downloaded and add the firmware?
For quite some people it's very difficult (hi bro!), for some it's impossible
(hi dad!) and for most of the rest it's a PITA (hi me!). And
On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 3:01 AM, Bernd Zeimetz wrote:
> Right. It works, but it is an annoying extra step to do. And I had more than
> one
> customer asking me why Debian is forcing them to do such an extra step and why
> they should not just use Ubuntu.
Tell them to blame their hardware vendor
On 05/07/2010 12:02 PM, Josselin Mouette wrote:
> Le vendredi 07 mai 2010 à 09:49 +0800, Paul Wise a écrit :
>> So the problem only occurs when installing on a host you don't have
>> physical access to and which requires non-free firmware blobs to
>> access the network? Does it occur in any other s
On Sun, May 09, 2010 at 10:59:57AM +0200, Bernd Zeimetz wrote:
> On 05/06/2010 07:22 PM, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote:
> > 2) Having the non-free firmware in the regular CD image sets; firmware
> >which is not loaded by default, but that can be selectively enabled
> >by the user, pretty much as
On 05/06/2010 07:22 PM, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote:
> On Wed, May 05, 2010 at 11:26:55PM +0200, Bernd Zeimetz wrote:
>> I can't see a reason why we should not be able to ship cd-images in
>> "non-free".
>
> What do you exactly mean by that?
> I can imagine at least two different interpretations of i
Le vendredi 07 mai 2010 à 09:49 +0800, Paul Wise a écrit :
> So the problem only occurs when installing on a host you don't have
> physical access to and which requires non-free firmware blobs to
> access the network? Does it occur in any other situation?
>
> I've never had to do such a thing, wha
On Fri, May 07, 2010 at 08:33:24AM +0200, Yves-Alexis Perez wrote:
> On jeu., 2010-05-06 at 21:16 -0500, Raphael Geissert wrote:
> > Josselin Mouette wrote:
> > > If there really was a need for it, such images would already exist.
> >
> > They do already exist and are labelled "*Ubuntu."
> >
> >
On jeu., 2010-05-06 at 21:16 -0500, Raphael Geissert wrote:
> Josselin Mouette wrote:
> > If there really was a need for it, such images would already exist.
>
> They do already exist and are labelled "*Ubuntu."
>
> That's what people end up trying and installing after they waste their time
> in
Josselin Mouette wrote:
> If there really was a need for it, such images would already exist.
They do already exist and are labelled "*Ubuntu."
That's what people end up trying and installing after they waste their time
installing Debian just to see that their wireless and/or ethernet card
"doe
On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 11:18 PM, Marco d'Itri wrote:
> Now try again, this time netinstalling an IBM Bladecenter with modern
> blades like HS21 or HS2.
> To which you have no physical access because it is in a different city.
So the problem only occurs when installing on a host you don't have
ph
On Wed, May 05, 2010 at 11:26:55PM +0200, Bernd Zeimetz wrote:
> I can't see a reason why we should not be able to ship cd-images in
> "non-free".
What do you exactly mean by that?
I can imagine at least two different interpretations of it:
1) Having different CD image sets: some sets containing
On 2010-05-05, Bernd Zeimetz wrote:
> This is still an annoying thing to handle. If you install machines at
> different
> locations regulary, this firmware crap is nothing but a pita. I can't see a
> reason why we should not be able to ship cd-images in "non-free".
I fully concur.
Cheers,
p...@debian.org wrote:
>> I'm also wondering what people think about adding some firmware
>> to our official installation media.
>I don't think it is needed.
I do.
>I recently had to install Debian lenny on a HP ProLiant machine, which
>required bnx2 firmware for the network controller. Just down
On 06/05/2010 11:59, Tapio Lehtonen wrote:
> How does the user know, which firmware he/she is going to need? It is doable
> to
> have the files on usb-stick or some such, if it is known which files need to
> be
> there.
Note that firwmare.tar.gz contains quite a lot of firmwares. And, afair,
the
[Tollef Fog Heen]
> It's not uncommon to install machines you are not physically close to
> and where plugging in hardware is therefore hard, so having it on the
> install media already is quite useful.
Yes. It would allow one to create ones own installation CD with
firmware included, and get th
]] Arto Jantunen
| Peter Palfrader writes:
|
| > On Wed, 05 May 2010, Arto Jantunen wrote:
| >> Seriously speaking, to me it seems very clear that non-free firmware
| >> will not be present on official installer images. Then again, the
| >> installer team has made it very easy to inject firmwar
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Hash: SHA1
Yves-Alexis Perez kirjoitti:
> On jeu., 2010-05-06 at 09:15 +0800, Paul Wise wrote:
>> I recently had to install Debian lenny on a HP ProLiant machine, which
>> required bnx2 firmware for the network controller. Just downloaded the
>> firmware .deb fro
On jeu., 2010-05-06 at 09:15 +0800, Paul Wise wrote:
> I recently had to install Debian lenny on a HP ProLiant machine, which
> required bnx2 firmware for the network controller. Just downloaded the
> firmware .deb from packages.d.o, stuck it on a FAT32 formatted USB
> stick and everything worked f
On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 12:29 AM, Kurt Roeckx wrote:
> So I was wondering what the state is of everything, and what
> issues people will run into, specially when installing.
The lenny installer is fine, I haven't tested the squeeze installer yet though.
> I'm also wondering what people think abo
Le mercredi 05 mai 2010 à 23:26 +0200, Bernd Zeimetz a écrit :
> This is still an annoying thing to handle. If you install machines at
> different
> locations regulary, this firmware crap is nothing but a pita. I can't see a
> reason why we should not be able to ship cd-images in "non-free".
In
On Wed, May 05, 2010 at 11:26:55PM +0200, Bernd Zeimetz wrote:
> This is still an annoying thing to handle. If you install machines at
> different
> locations regulary, this firmware crap is nothing but a pita. I can't see a
> reason why we should not be able to ship cd-images in "non-free". If de
On 05/05/2010 09:24 PM, Arto Jantunen wrote:
> I understood that current Debian Installer takes firmware during
> install via usb sticks, floppies, etc. If this is not the case, I have
> understood incorrectly and take back my comment on it being made
> easy. I am fairly sure that the feature has
On Wed, 05 May 2010 21:57:46 +0300, Arto Jantunen wrote:
> Seriously speaking, to me it seems very clear that non-free firmware
> will not be present on official installer images. Then again, the
> installer team has made it very easy to inject firmware during
> installation on machines where it's
Kurt Roeckx writes:
> I've heard people complain about how the (lenny?) installer works,
> and I didn't have the need to install on a machine that requires
> firmware yet myself. I think the issues I've heard were:
> - You need 2 installation media. Which also makes an unattended
> installati
On Wed, May 05, 2010 at 09:57:46PM +0300, Arto Jantunen wrote:
>
> Hmm. Is the release already so close that it's time to have this
> flamewar again? Shouldn't we wait a month or two for maximal effect?
I think the earlier we have this discussion the better.
> Seriously speaking, to me it seems
Peter Palfrader writes:
> On Wed, 05 May 2010, Arto Jantunen wrote:
>> Seriously speaking, to me it seems very clear that non-free firmware
>> will not be present on official installer images. Then again, the
>> installer team has made it very easy to inject firmware during
>> installation on mac
On Wed, 05 May 2010, Arto Jantunen wrote:
> Kurt Roeckx writes:
> > It seems the kernel team has moved alot of firmware to non-free,
> > which means that more people will need to use pieces from non-free
> > to be able to use their computer.
> >
> > So I was wondering what the state is of everyth
Kurt Roeckx writes:
> It seems the kernel team has moved alot of firmware to non-free,
> which means that more people will need to use pieces from non-free
> to be able to use their computer.
>
> So I was wondering what the state is of everything, and what
> issues people will run into, specially
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