Am Samstag, den 12.08.2017, 06:29 + schrieb Dr. Bas Wijnen:
> First of all, a clarification: This post (like most in this thread)
> is
> primarily about Debian's philosophy, not about certspotter (but I do
> talk about
> that at the end as well). For this reason, I'm not CC'ing the bug.
>
> O
Le samedi, 12 août 2017, 10.06:40 h EDT Christian Seiler a écrit :
> win32-loader probably doesn't run on Wine or ReactOS (though I haven't
> tried it, so I may be wrong here) - should that be in contrib if that's
> the case?
win32-loader runs fine on wine, for what is worth. It's also built entir
Because it's so fun, let me play devil's advocate for a bit:
On 08/12/2017 08:29 AM, Dr. Bas Wijnen wrote:
> No. The question is not "is there non-free software that the program can work
> with?" That would be much too broad, and it would make anything that touches
> the network non-free. Inste
❦ 12 août 2017 06:29 GMT, "Dr. Bas Wijnen" :
> That is a disservice to our users. While for many users this is true, those
> users will have contrib (and probably non-free) enabled in their sources.list.
> So moving the package to contrib doesn't change anything for them. The only
> people who
First of all, a clarification: This post (like most in this thread) is
primarily about Debian's philosophy, not about certspotter (but I do talk about
that at the end as well). For this reason, I'm not CC'ing the bug.
On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 05:26:58PM -0400, Faidon Liambotis wrote:
> On Fri, Aug
Quoting Faidon Liambotis (2017-08-11 17:26:58)
> As for certspotter, the conversation has derailed quite a bit -- in part
> because Jonas forwarded this to debian-project while stripping almost
> the entirety of my reply on the bug, then stripping again all of the
> context when days later, he star
On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 08:03:09AM -0400, Wouter Verhelst wrote:
> If a free software implementation of the remote service exists that a
> package can work with, then it can remain in main. If not, it cannot.
There are no free software server-side implementation of e.g. the ICQ
protocol, as far as
On Fri, Aug 11 2017, Wouter Verhelst wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 07, 2017 at 08:48:53PM -0700, Sean Whitton wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 07 2017, Dr. Bas Wijnen wrote:
>>
>> >> Example: [s3cmd]
>> >
>> > How is this not in contrib? This software is useless without the
>> > non-free service (whic
On Mon, Aug 07, 2017 at 08:48:53PM -0700, Sean Whitton wrote:
> Hello,
>
> On Mon, Aug 07 2017, Dr. Bas Wijnen wrote:
>
> >> Example: [s3cmd]
> >
> > How is this not in contrib? This software is useless without the
> > non-free service (which is also software, and it is not in main) from
> > Ama
Vincent Bernat writes:
> As a sidenote, I strongly think I should just shut up. This kind of
> discussions always lead nowhere and people just forget them. But...
Yeah, I've been feeling the same way. But one message in support of this
point, just to try to balance the expressed opinions a bit.
❦ 9 août 2017 19:57 GMT, "Dr. Bas Wijnen" :
> If the free options are limited to a point where it does not make sense to
> recommend them to our users, that means the non-free service should be
> recommended and IMO that means the program should be in contrib.
As a sidenote, I strongly think I
On Tue, Aug 08, 2017 at 07:58:06AM -0700, Don Armstrong wrote:
> On Mon, 07 Aug 2017, Dr. Bas Wijnen wrote:
> > Ah, that's good then! Still, I think its description has the same
> > problem as certspotter, namely that it recommends the use of a
> > non-free service. In Debian, I would prefer to see
On Mon, 07 Aug 2017, Dr. Bas Wijnen wrote:
> Ah, that's good then! Still, I think its description has the same
> problem as certspotter, namely that it recommends the use of a
> non-free service. In Debian, I would prefer to see a recommendation
> for the free alternative, while the non-free altern
Hello,
On Mon, Aug 07 2017, Dr. Bas Wijnen wrote:
>> Example: [s3cmd]
>
> How is this not in contrib? This software is useless without the
> non-free service (which is also software, and it is not in main) from
> Amazon.
Using the service doesn't involve running any non-free code *on your
compu
Vincent Bernat writes:
> ❦ 7 août 2017 18:12 GMT, "Dr. Bas Wijnen" :
>
> >> Example: [s3cmd]
> >
> > How is this not in contrib? This software is useless without the
> > non-free service (which is also software, and it is not in main)
> > from Amazon. Policy even mentions as an example for thi
On Tue, Aug 08, 2017 at 02:25:51AM +0800, Shengjing Zhu wrote:
> The description of s3cmd is outdated. It's *not* useless without AWS.
> It can be used with self-hosted S3 protocol compatible service, such
> as Ceph RGW, minio[1]. Both are free softwares, and Ceph is in our
> main archive.
Ah, tha
❦ 7 août 2017 18:12 GMT, "Dr. Bas Wijnen" :
>> We have all kind of software advertising non-free services. Search for
>> "Google" or "Amazon". The comparison is even unfair as the service
>> advertised here is available as free software (not the case for most
>> services from Amazon and Google
On Sun, Aug 06, 2017 at 02:15:17PM +0200, Vincent Bernat wrote:
> ❦ 4 août 2017 20:03 +0200, Jonas Smedegaard :
> > No, at worst this is misuse of Debian ressources for commercial gain -
> > i.e. using long description field for advertising a non-free service.
>
> We have all kind of software
Quoting Paul Wise (2017-08-05 09:38:45)
> On Fri, Aug 4, 2017 at 2:03 PM, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
>
> > Am I alone in finding it wrong to promote commercial services in long
> > descriptions of packages n Debian main?
>
> In general, I think we should avoid doing that.
>
> In this case, the adve
Hi,
> We have all kind of software advertising non-free services. Search for
> "Google" or "Amazon".
The important distinction here is not that that we mention services
that commercial (or even non-free), but rather between descriptive and
(quasi-) objective phrases such as:
Cert Spotter is
❦ 4 août 2017 20:03 +0200, Jonas Smedegaard :
> Am I alone in finding it wrong to promote commercial services in long
> descriptions of packages n Debian main?
I agree with Faidon on this one. Just saying that because the way you
ask the question is more likely to get the opposite answers.
>
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On Sat, Aug 05, 2017 at 09:38:45AM -0400, Paul Wise wrote:
> > No, at worst this is misuse of Debian resources for commercial gain -
> > i.e. using long description field for advertising a non-free service.
>
> I got the impression that Faidon is not
On Fri, Aug 4, 2017 at 2:03 PM, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
> Am I alone in finding it wrong to promote commercial services in long
> descriptions of packages n Debian main?
In general, I think we should avoid doing that.
In this case, the advertisement is also present on the upstream github
page, v
Dear fellow Debian developers,
Am I alone in finding it wrong to promote commercial services in long
descriptions of packages n Debian main?
Quoting Faidon Liambotis (2017-08-04 13:57:10)
> On Sat, Feb 25, 2017 at 03:53:13PM +0100, Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
> > Long description includes a paragra
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