we shouldn't ship content that promotes bigotry and
discrimination against people of marginalized identities.
Some of us have moved on from Debian as a debate club.
--
Steve Langasek Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS
Debian Developer to set it o
s of religious texts would presumably be the first things
> tossed onto the pyre.
Don't you think it's a bit hyperbolic to equate "not distributing a text in
our archive" to "book burning"?
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als
> who have themselves engaged in terrorism or other violence toward
> individuals and groups, supported those who have engaged in such
> activities, or been otherwise complicit in such.
Lol bothsidesing anarchism and fascism
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Steve Langasek Give me a lever long en
2' not found
> (required by lib/libSDL2-2.0.so.0)
> ./project: /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libc.so.6: version `GLIBC_2.34' not found
> (required by lib/libSDL2-2.0.so.0)
> ./project: /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libc.so.6: version `GLIBC_2.33' not found
> (required by lib/libfreetype.
ter out only the stuff that conflicts with the project's
Diversity Statement.
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Ubuntu Developer https://www.debia
OUTSIDE of Debian. The Debian project is not your echo chamber for
> your activism.
I guess our users stop being a priority when they die by the millions due to
the disruption of our climate.
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Debian Developer
ened outside the context of Debian
work, or that this individual had no opportunity to assault people inside of
Debian.
The same applies to other, "lesser" behaviors that invalidate the innate
dignity of other members of the project. A committment to keep one's mouth
shut in a Debian c
Internet,
the Free Software movement would not have taken off.
Should we therefore put Bill Gates on a pedestal due to his historic
contributions to the rise of Free Software, ignoring all negatives?
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Steve Langasek Give me a lever long enough and a Fr
ignore, I am sure it will not change your daily life in your
> > > team or in the project. Or wait some hours before doing it. But again,
> > > such
> > > wordings are unacceptable, regardless the topic itself and the ideas. Keep
> > > in mind you speak publicl
On Tue, Mar 30, 2021 at 06:56:49PM +1100, Dmitry Smirnov wrote:
> Cancel "culture" arrived in Debian and it threatens the project:
https://davidblixtauthor.medium.com/cancel-culture-and-responsibility-b5b8065c3cbd
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these questions seriously and would not
remain silent if we were aware something like what you describe was going
on. The parsimonious explanation is that the ex-DD who has now been engaged
in a campaign of harassment against members of the project for over a year
is materially misrepr
7;s private correspondence from 20 years ago.
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T people. If
> that's in conflict with Debian's code of conduct, so be it.
Seconded.
There is not room in the Debian Project for both me and transphobes, and I
would rather see the Debian Project end than be a safe haven for
transphobia.
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Steve Langasek G
is
necessary in order to limit any ongoing damage.
If you don't understand this, then it is unsurprising to me if enforcement
escalates.
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Steve Langasek Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS
Debian Developer to set it on, an
sidual decency
to not open their fat mouths and argue in public that people don't *deserve*
to have access to food and clean water, whereas there is a quite high number
of assholes who feel no shame at treating someone as less-than on the basis
of irrelevant intrinsic characteristics.
So, you know,
On Mon, Jan 07, 2019 at 01:47:41PM -0500, Miles Fidelman wrote:
> On 1/7/19 10:57 AM, Ian Jackson wrote:
> > Miles Fidelman writes ("Re: Censorship in Debian"):
> > > On 1/6/19 1:38 AM, Steve Langasek wrote:
> > > > [systemd stuff]
> > > [sys
ks on developers'
character, integrity, or technical competence
There is no expectation that everyone agree with every technical decision in
Debian. The only expectation is that they engage constructively in spite of
any disagreements.
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Steve Langasek Give me a lever long en
't the change I was asking for as they
> mostly do it now. I was asking for something entirely different -
> transparency.
Should we also require a detailed opinion from the DAM for each person who
is admitted to the project, or only for those that were once admitted bu
e will also be unjustly persecuted for doing something that he
didn't know was wrong. But just as with the #HimToo movement, this isn't
supported by the actual data. Over two decades of Debian history and
hundreds of white men, and only one has found himself expelled by the
project for th
f anything else, this is not unconstitutional. The constitution
gives the DPL the power to delegate decisions about approving and expelling
developers; the DPL delegates this power to the DAM; thus any exercise of
this power is constitutional.
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Steve Langasek Give me a lever l
er, the Technical Committee exists as a decision-making body of last
resort, when consensus is not possible (because two parties have
incompatible goals, or because discussion is not converging on agreement
fast enough to matter).
Do you believe that Debian should not have such a d
nting on the process. Removing the
opportunity to comment and the expectation of being listened to would make
for a much less frustrating process.
This doesn't address the question of Debian Developers feeling they haven't
been heard.
I'm hopeful that the other subthrea
kporting.
>
> Ian.
>
> [1] The NHS has been seriously underfunded and can't afford to hire
> enough good IT people (or indeed enough medics); and there has been a
> drive to replace IT systems with massive centralised IT disaster
> projects, which has starved existing syste
nal
> poster has a whole bunch of misinformation (and I'm sorry that they had a
> bad experience with jessie), but I have no idea what this specific point
> could even mean.
My guess was that this was a reference to the availability of Debian images
for Microsoft Azure.
--
Steve Lang
no cause for
accusing Ian of "white supremacy" when all the evidence suggests he desired
to see civil rights abuses corrected for the good of all. His memory
deserves better than this.
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Debian Developer
-image.debian.org
- mothership.debian.org
- ftp.debian.org
- image-master.debian.org
- get.debian.org
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Debian Developer to set it on, and I can move the world.
Ubuntu Developer
o access, but
https://wiki.debian.org is up and running.
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Steve Langasek Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS
Debian Developer to set it on, and I can move the world.
Ubuntu Developerhttp://www.debian.org/
s
On Fri, Feb 13, 2015 at 09:19:29AM +1000, Russell Stuart wrote:
> On Thu, 2015-02-12 at 10:57 -0800, Steve Langasek wrote:
> > I'm surprised no one else has brought up this point yet: part of the reason
> > for using cryptographic PKI (web of trust; SSL CAs; etc) is to elim
but it seems to be the best we've come up with
so far. People who complain about the value of ID checks never seem to
offer anything *better*, they only propose eliminating them and weakening
our standards.
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Steve Langasek Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS
D
r Java, I'm afraid I've taken to embedding the ABI version in the
> filename.
AKA: ELF shared library semantics, reinvented 20 years behind schedule.
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Debian Developer
ues to serve as long as they are comfortable doing so.
Did you consider this corner case in your analysis? If you think this
corner case is less important than the risk of high turnover in the TC,
could you elaborate why you think this?
Thanks,
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Steve Langasek Give me
under our constitution. There
are some times when letting every DD do their own thing is not the right way
to build a shared operating system. This may or may not be one of those
times; and I'm sure that some DDs will object to any compulsion by the
project, whether it's constitutional
gt; time than I would like on financial stuff.
Assuming this is an open request for help and not directed at Sledge
specifically, I volunteer to join the auditor team.
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blished in a well-known location?
Thanks,
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Debian Developer to set it on, and I can move the world.
Ubuntu Developerhttp://www.debian.org/
slanga...@ubuntu.com
g focused on Debian, then we can't
prevent them from doing so. But I don't understand why anyone would want to
misleadingly describe something as a "DebConf" if it's not about Debian
--
Steve Langasek Give me a lever long enough and a Free O
ve explaining how this policy was
arrived at:
https://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2013/10/msg00090.html
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Ubuntu Developer
iour).
To what end?
The stated purpose of the CoC is to ensure that our conference is a safe
space for all members of the Debian community. In what way would a change
in approach to dealing with a violation after the fact, where the offender
is no longer at the conference, further that goal?
--
St
de.
This thread is not about whether we care about people being offensive
(which, btw, is terribly subjective). This thread is about whether the CoC
should be used to enforce people *not* being offensive.
And that is a very slippery slope with no bottom in sight.
--
Steve Langasek
you've done here.
I would hope to have a constructive discussion about DebConf governance
while we are all together in a week at DebConf14. But I am dismayed by this
delegation right beforehand, which I think reflects a misunderstanding of
the actual problems that face the DebConf team.
--
Steve L
On Tue, May 06, 2014 at 02:18:40PM -0700, Don Armstrong wrote:
> On Tue, 06 May 2014, Steve Langasek wrote:
> > What would really be nice would be if someone would make another run
> > of the shaped swirl vinyl stickers. I think I last saw these for sale
> > back in ~2006,
aptop is bare. :( Any chance of someone making some of these, rather than
just the square white ones?
Thanks,
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Debian Developer to set it on, and I can move the world.
Ubuntu Developer
statement about minimizing the delta with Debian, but is the
size of this delta published and tracked anywhere?
Thanks,
--
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Debian Developer to set it on, and I can move the world.
Ubuntu Develope
nk the level of ongoing investment implied is very low.
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Steve Langasek Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS
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Ubuntu Developerhttp://www.debian.org/
slanga...@ubuntu.com
of such a section; but I
still think this is secondary to the main purpose of ratifying a CoC.
> I can write specific amendments, if somebody is willing to sponsor them :)
If you would like to see change here, I think this is probably the best way
forward. Without specific text to consider, this
; is not user-editable or I'd've fixed it myself!)
Done. The page is user editable, provided that you're logged in to the
wiki.
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Steve Langasek Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS
Debian Developer to set it on, and I c
om making it
through in the future than in trying to scrub the past.
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Debian Developer to set it on, and I can move the world.
Ubuntu Developer
temd is the wrong choice.
*You*, OTOH, have to accept it because you're an anonymous troll whose words
carry absolutely zero weight with the Debian community.
You are this guy:
http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/03/19
And that guy doesn't get a say in Debian's deci
gh.
Given the ambiguity about whether this GR vacates the earlier TC decision, I
think it would be best to simply include in your GR text a statement that
The Debian project reaffirms the decision of the TC to make systemd the
default init system for jessie.
(Then I suppose if people don't ac
#x27;t drift over time due to turn-over
within the respective organizations.
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Debian Developer to set it on, and I can move the world.
Ubuntu Developer
t.
Debian has ratified a diversity statement which says that all contributors
will be treated with respect, and that all contributors should feel safe and
welcome in Debian regardless of background or identity. This ban
demonstrates that the diversity statement is not empty words; it is a
principle tha
On Thu, Dec 05, 2013 at 03:53:42PM +0100, Gerfried Fuchs wrote:
> * Steve Langasek [2013-12-05 03:32:19 CET]:
> > In most cases, well-functioning teams will make non-controversial
> > nominations, and the DPL will accept them without question. But that's
> > *
f I remember correctly the DPL learned about the last ftpmaster promotion
> around 2 weeks after it happened.[1]
If the ftp team is a delegated team, then this is a miscarriage of Debian
procedure.
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Debian Developer
between criticism and personal attacks / abuse, and
there is no fundamental reason we can't draw a line in the sand against
abuse without having a chilling effect on criticism. If you have concrete
suggestions for improving the CoC language to *not* have the s
On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 10:21:38PM +0100, Wouter Verhelst wrote:
> Op 26-11-13 11:21, Cyril Brulebois schreef:
> > Steve Langasek (2013-11-26):
> [...]
> >> Note that many of our Contributors are not native english speakers or
> > English, I suppose?
> I fall
annels.
- The [Debian Community Guidelines](http://people.debian.org/~enrico/dcg/)
by Enrico Zini contain some advice on how to communicate effectively.
-
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Steve Langasek Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS
Debian Developer to set it on, and I
t matter that Canonical would
need to address. But that's nothing to do with the contents of Debian, and
it's not something that Debian could prevent.
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Steve Langasek Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS
Debian Developer to set it on, and I c
Contrary to how this has been represented by the Mozilla
community since then, it was never a question of a trademark license per
se.)
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Debian Developer to set it on, and I can move the world.
Ubuntu Dev
ark when referring to Ubuntu instead of just the name,
which is what nominative use is intended to protect. I think the use of the
logo does introduce confusion, and it was reasonable to ask fixubuntu.com to
discontinue use of it. So despite the ham-handed approach, I think the
ultimate outcome he
> lists because such announcements invite subsequent discussion, likely
> decloaking the banned poster.
Reducing subsequent discussion is inseparable from reducing both oversight
and the closure given to other list participants. I don't consider posting
such content on a web page to suitably a
uot; would probably be fine in most cases.
This also seems like a good compromise to me. Do the other folks who object
to publishing information that could damage the poster's reputation (e.g.,
Bart, Ingo) think this is ok?
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Steve Langasek Give me a lever long enough an
tice it
seems to be quite difficult.
> > I don't think maintaining a list "somewhere" is sufficient; there should be
> > some notification to the project when the bans take place.
> I can imagine that some DDs prefer to receive notifications, which can be
Hi Bart,
On Sat, Oct 26, 2013 at 07:33:34PM +, Bart Martens wrote:
> On Sat, Oct 26, 2013 at 10:46:41AM -0700, Steve Langasek wrote:
> > This led to a philosophical debate about whether bans should be made public.
> > Alexander expressed concern that having them published coul
On Sat, Oct 26, 2013 at 08:56:59PM +0200, Ingo Jürgensmann wrote:
> Am 26.10.2013 um 19:46 schrieb Steve Langasek :
> > This led to a philosophical debate about whether bans should be made public.
> > Alexander expressed concern that having them published could be harmful to
ic mailing list posts as
reference) should be made public.
What do the rest of you think?
Cheers,
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Debian Developer to set it on, and I can move the world.
Ubuntu Developer
look like?
> And what good would it do? 1) read literally means that if software
> infringes on the claims of a patent debian would have nothing to
> do with it, consistant license be damned.
> It is all very confusing.
> And 3 means I can't even ask anyone about this confusion.
it fits Debian's guidelines
and *will* be approved by the DPL.
In fact, if I understand Lucas's proposal correctly, it does *not* authorize
SPI or other Trusted Organizations to directly reimburse DSA expenses before
they've been signed off by the DPL.
--
Steve Langasek
lation?
From where I sit, the whole thing looks like a solution in search of a
problem.
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Debian Developer to set it on, and I can move the world.
Ubuntu Developerh
f the
first year's "experiment". Has the list been used at all? What has it been
used for? Have companies been effective in achieving their goals using this
list?
The graphs on lists.debian.org seem to indicate that the list has not seen
much use:
http://lists.debian.org/
If that's your expectation, then I think it makes sense to structure the
approval to match. Better to be too conservative and have them have to come
to you once or twice a year for approvals, than to have money spent that
shouldn't have been due to a misunderstanding of expec
p they need without risk of accidentally running the accounts
dry.
In any case, I have no objection to the principle of streamlining the
approval process for DSA's day-to-day expenses.
Cheers,
--
Steve Langasek Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS
Debian Developer
tudy of why we need an
enforceable code of conduct on Debian mailing lists.
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Debian Developer to set it on, and I can move the world.
Ubuntu Developer
On Wed, May 22, 2013 at 12:24:51AM +0900, Norbert Preining wrote:
> On Di, 21 Mai 2013, Steve Langasek wrote:
> > As one of the most routinely abusive posters on Debian lists towards your
> > fellow developers: not you.
> Thus neither you ..., logic wins.
> Wow, being told
As one of the most routinely abusive posters on Debian lists towards your
fellow developers: not you.
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Debian Developer to set it on, and I can move the world.
Ubuntu Developer
s around its use. A one-time $700 cost seems
reasonable to me; our logo is nearly as important to our brand as our name
is.
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Debian Developer to set it on, and I can
Debian:
> http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/
> I find it therefore doubtful that keeping the bottle logo solves any real
> world problem.
I find it doubtful that getting rid of the bottle logo solves any real world
problem.
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Steve Langasek Give me a lever long e
e it's more important to
uphold the principle of not being jerky to our neighbors than it is to have
an ironclad assurance that our trademark could never be invalidated. I
don't think the argument "we could lose our trademark unless we [...]" is
complete unless it also includes some
te of a package
> in stable if the person who used to maintain it is now no longer
> interested in running that service, the avoidance of which probably being
> the main reason why you'd want to be using a debian.net URL.
Yes. Moving either pioneers.debian.net or pdx.debian.ne
agree with this. The wording of position statements matters - what
we ratify should be posted word for word on the website.
But I also think the crowdsourced review on debian-project has already been
more than sufficient and don't think there's any point in further
&quo
unity.
>
> DRAFT TO BE VOTED ENDS HERE
Seconded. I know you haven't called for seconds yet, but I don't see any
reason to wait when this has already reached broad consensus on
debian-project.
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Steve Langasek Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS
So I would much prefer that Stefano simply start a GR in favor of the
diversity statement instead. He does have a leg up in that as DPL, he
can propose the GR without waiting for seconds. :)
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Debian Developer
atements are a power that
the developers exercise under GR, not a power that the DPL has?
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Ubuntu Developer
r “additional
> fields”, but the current patch uses both. The Policy's chapter 5 uses
> “additional”, so this is where my choice would go even if it will increase
> the difficulty to search for previous discussions on the topic.
That's fair. Updated patch attached.
--
Steve
e top pointing at a url that lintian
doesn't know about, it would be reasonable to skip the rest and simply note
that an unrecognized format is being used. But when the file says it's
using DEP-5, it should be DEP-5.
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Steve Langasek Give me a lever long enough and
ield to make it easier to read.
> instead?
Looks good to me, committed.
Thanks,
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Ubuntu Developer
On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 03:05:58PM -0800, Russ Allbery wrote:
> Steve Langasek writes:
> > On the other hand, while a "formatted text" field type *may* be reflowed
> > for display, is there any software doing that today wrt DEP5? Maybe
> > it's enough to re
ee it made a "formatted text" field.
> If there is agreement, perhaps the current draft could be amended to reflect
> this. It is a normative change, but that will not invalidate any existing
> file.
I agree that bugfixing this is worthwhile right now since it doesn't
On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 07:30:34AM +0900, Charles Plessy wrote:
> Le Tue, Dec 13, 2011 at 10:36:00AM -0800, Steve Langasek a écrit :
> > On Tue, Dec 13, 2011 at 04:11:49PM +0900, Charles Plessy wrote:
> > > I also noted that in the description of the Format field, it is written
ze is to drop the comment in the
description of the Format field, since that's an artifact of my earlier
thinking on how to structure this. Do you agree, or do you think we should
instead add this information to all of the field definitions? If the
latter, would you be willing to provide a pa
On Mon, Dec 12, 2011 at 12:28:51PM -0800, Russ Allbery wrote:
> Steve Langasek writes:
> > - single header paragraph plus a single Files: * paragraph. In this case,
> >any License/Copyright fields in the header paragraph are used only to
> >document compilatio
yone think there's a better way to do this? Have
I introduced any errors in the conversion?
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Hi guys,
On Mon, Dec 12, 2011 at 12:51:59AM -0800, Russ Allbery wrote:
> Steve Langasek writes:
> > This implies, but does not state explicitly, that there must be at least
> > one Files paragraph in the file to be compliant. I would like to see
> > this corrected by maki
compliant. I would like to see this
corrected by making it explicit in the section on File syntax what the
minimum required structure is; but it's possible others have a different
understanding of this text.
Is the attached patch ok to commit?
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On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 11:17:40AM +0900, Charles Plessy wrote:
> Le Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 02:19:34PM -0600, Steve Langasek a écrit :
> > I've committed the below patch to the dep repo on svn.debian.org.
> This is a HTML document that you modify,
Yes, and I'm very unhappy w
instead.
The GPL Font exception refers
to the text added to the license notice of each file as
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d we at the same time clarify
that if more than one exception is in use, you need to use a custom
shortname instead of an ORed or ANDed list of licenses.
Is there a consensus for this position?
I think for future versions of the standard, it's worth covering this case
ev
2.0-with-bison-exception does not mean that there is a
> special exception to use the GPL-2 with a so-called ‘bison’ license.
That has not been proposed.
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ing to spend overly long
discussing the options. Does anyone else have a preferred option that we
could quickly reach consensus on and enact?
I have a slight preference for:
GPL-2+ with OpenSSL and Font exceptions
because it's both easy to parse and reads natur
ntly less useful. If
I wanted to follow identi.ca, I would follow identi.ca - the value to me of
G+ is that it's *not* a microblogging stream.
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e don't need a license.
A trademark license is a license to use a *brand*, not a license on a work
of software.
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Ubuntu Developer
there's any reason to
worry about the possibility of patching a package resulting in a requirement
to rename it, *unless* there are particular reasons that we believe we need
a trademark license in the first place.
Cheers,
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