also sprach Steve Langasek [2009.08.07.0012 +0200]:
> > Sure, it has compatibility addons, but primarily it conflicts
> > with sysvinit and encourages vendors to provide upstart control
> > files for packages, instead of init.d scripts.
>
> Why in the world does it matter whether it's a compat la
Philipp Kern writes:
> On 2009-08-06, Russ Allbery wrote:
>> The apparently partly-automated bug reports from what appears to be
>> your live CD system are particularly bad. Many of them are automated
>> dumps of translated install logs with translated error messages, which
>> drastically limit
On 2009-08-06, Russ Allbery wrote:
> The apparently partly-automated bug reports from what appears to be your
> live CD system are particularly bad. Many of them are automated dumps of
> translated install logs with translated error messages, which drastically
> limits the number of people who ca
Am 06.08.2009, 22:22 Uhr, schrieb Pierre Habouzit :
On Thu, Aug 06, 2009 at 04:25:47PM +0200, Matthias Andree wrote:
[Please Cc: replies back to me, I'm not on debian-proj...@]
FWIW, this is an excellent mail, and I share many of your opinions and
hindsights here.
Note that by your count Deb
"Michael Bienia" writes:
> I'm sorry about this but the amount of bugs flowing in into Ubuntu is
> bigger that can be handled by the available man power, being it
> developer or community members.
> Bug #20 was filed March 2008
> Bug #30 was filed Nov 2008
> Bug #40 was filed Jul 200
On 2009-08-06 16:25:47 +0200, Matthias Andree wrote:
[I'm Ubuntu developer (MOTU to be more specific), so I might be biased]
I certainly won't excuse some things that are not happening, I know that
Ubuntu needs to improve in some aspects. But realising this and get
things improved are still not t
On Thu, Aug 06, 2009 at 08:50:36PM +0200, martin f krafft wrote:
> … and all of the efforts of the LSB to standardise sysvinit so that
> every vendor can drop init.d scripts into place and expect them to
> work, are undermined by upstart.
Right, just like the efforts of the LSB to standardize a pa
On Thu, Aug 06, 2009 at 04:25:47PM +0200, Matthias Andree wrote:
> [Please Cc: replies back to me, I'm not on debian-proj...@]
FWIW, this is an excellent mail, and I share many of your opinions and
hindsights here.
Note that by your count Debian isn't always a good player with
upstreams, I'm pret
"When I look over the commentary on debian-devel and in
debbugs and on #debian-devel, I see a lot of familiar names from Ubuntu,
especially on the deep, hard problems that need solving at the core. I'm
proud of that."
There is unnecessary incompatibility between Ubuntu and Debian. Their
incompatib
also sprach Matthias Andree [2009.08.06.1625 +0200]:
> Ubuntu has some interesting approaches, such as Upstart. However, these are
> incomplete, underdocumented, and in consequence half-baked. If you care about
> the end user experience, you've got to bite the bullet and not only lick it.
> Discus
Julien BLACHE wrote:
> Discussing the validity of security policies is not the point of this
> thread, so let's leave it at that, please.
It is exactly the point of this thread if you use it as an argument
against a common freeze cycle.
> This was only an example, there are others, nitpicking
> o
On Thu, Aug 06, 2009 at 03:18:08PM +0200, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 06, 2009 at 02:08:26AM +0200, Cyril Brulebois wrote:
> > Or is some incremental freeze still supposed to happen?
>
> During the talk/discussion at DebConf, IIRC Luk stated that
> incremental freezes had a negative eff
Philipp Kern writes:
> On 2009-08-06, Josselin Mouette wrote:
>> And this is precisely why it was asked that for squeeze, frozen and
>> testing remain different suites during the freeze. Currently I have no
>> idea of whether this will happen.
>
> While I see the point of this I don't know if I
Am Donnerstag, den 06.08.2009, 18:01 +0200 schrieb Marc Haber:
> On Thu, Aug 06, 2009 at 04:25:47PM +0200, Matthias Andree wrote:
> > GRUB 2 is going to be another opportunity where Ubuntu can prove
> > either useful or detrimental to your stated goals: invest time to
> > polish it and contribute b
On Thu, Aug 06, 2009 at 04:25:47PM +0200, Matthias Andree wrote:
> GRUB 2 is going to be another opportunity where Ubuntu can prove
> either useful or detrimental to your stated goals: invest time to
> polish it and contribute back to the upstream; or use it raw as it is
> and leave the user with t
On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 4:44 PM, Mark Shuttleworth wrote:
> The proposal as I understood it was that in December, the key component
> maintainers / release managers from all interested distributions would
> discuss, on a public mailing list, their plans for the base versions of
> those components in
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On Wed, 05 Aug 2009 10:21:38 +0100
Mark Shuttleworth wrote:
> Hi folks
Hi there
> We're already seeing a growing trend towards cadence in free software,
> which I think is a wonderful move. Here, we are talking about
> elevating that to something that the world has never seen in
> proprietary s
[Please Cc: replies back to me, I'm not on debian-proj...@]
Mark,
I think you have a biassed view in your role as Ubuntu maintainer.
This isn't bad in itself, but it needs to be written so that positions are
clear.
My position is: I'm currently using openSUSE for my development, with occasional
On Thu, Aug 06, 2009 at 03:18:08PM +0200, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote:
> During the talk/discussion at DebConf, IIRC Luk stated that
> incremental freezes had a negative effect because for many developers
> it was not clear what/when was going to be frozen. The logical
> consequence drawn there (again
On Thu, Aug 06, 2009 at 02:08:26AM +0200, Cyril Brulebois wrote:
> Or is some incremental freeze still supposed to happen?
During the talk/discussion at DebConf, IIRC Luk stated that
incremental freezes had a negative effect because for many developers
it was not clear what/when was going to be fr
On Thu, Aug 06, 2009 at 02:21:49PM +0200, Cyril Brulebois wrote:
> Luk Claes (06/08/2009):
> > If the freeze date is well known in advance the question becomes moot
> > unless some maintainer wants to work against the freeze AFAICS. Having
> > a known freeze date is meant to help everyone to be ab
On Thu, Aug 06, 2009 at 08:52:10AM +0200, martin f krafft wrote:
> I think it's the job of something like the LSB to ensure a necessary
> baseline across distros on which vendors can build.
Well, maybe; however the LSB is *very* baseline, so not very useful.
Besides, it is heavily geared towards
On Thu, Aug 06, 2009 at 02:49:37PM +0200, Pierre Habouzit wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 06, 2009 at 02:02:59PM +0200, martin f krafft wrote:
> > I am failing to accept that vendors need to use those very specific
> > things in their software. just like I doubt that people need IE-HTML
> > to make their si
On Thu, Aug 06, 2009 at 02:02:59PM +0200, martin f krafft wrote:
> also sprach Pierre Habouzit [2009.08.06.1104 +0200]:
> > You're comparing apples and oranges here, for HTML is a standard,
> > and theoretically, following the standard is enough (and even that
> > is probably -- and sadly -- a fal
On Wed, Aug 05, 2009 at 11:44:00PM +0200, Ilya Shpan'kov wrote:
> I will inform our lawers about your opinion. Really, it have a very big
> sense.
>
> I can say, that here in Opera we had discussions about being Free
> Software every year. Unfortunately, we have a lot of agreements with
> other
Luk Claes (06/08/2009):
> If the freeze date is well known in advance the question becomes moot
> unless some maintainer wants to work against the freeze AFAICS. Having
> a known freeze date is meant to help everyone to be able to plan
> better and refrain from doing high impact changes right befo
Cyril Brulebois wrote:
> Raphael Geissert (05/08/2009):
>> Like some people said during Debconf: "freezing in December" doesn't
>> necessarily mean freezing the first day or even the first week of
>> December; the 31 is still December, which means there are 30 days to
>> decide many things, if nec
also sprach Pierre Habouzit [2009.08.06.1104 +0200]:
> You're comparing apples and oranges here, for HTML is a standard,
> and theoretically, following the standard is enough (and even that
> is probably -- and sadly -- a fallacy).
LSB is growing to be just that, but it won't stand a chance if
pe
On 2009-08-06, Josselin Mouette wrote:
> And this is precisely why it was asked that for squeeze, frozen and
> testing remain different suites during the freeze. Currently I have no
> idea of whether this will happen.
While I see the point of this I don't know if I would be happy. If people
just
On Thu, Aug 06, 2009 at 08:52:10AM +0200, martin f krafft wrote:
> also sprach Pierre Habouzit [2009.08.05.2333 +0200]:
> > But speaking from my experience as an employee of a software editor, I
> > can tell that the distribution diversity is a huge problem when it comes
> > to distributing our wo
Julien BLACHE writes:
> Steve McIntyre wrote:
>> Julien BLACHE writes:
>>> A time-based freeze could mean for some teams that they'll have to
>>> stop work basically for months to a year.
>> Exaggeration, -1.
> Excuse me, what? This is exactly what happened for this past freeze,
Some teams h
Mark Shuttleworth schreef:
> I think most are waiting to see if Debian and Ubuntu can do this. If we
> can, I am very confident we will get a group of other distributions
> participating in the version harmonisation discussions in the first
> round. To win Novell we would have to actually demonstr
Le jeudi 06 août 2009 à 08:08 +0200, Julien BLACHE a écrit :
> >>A time-based freeze could mean for some teams that they'll have to
> >>stop work basically for months to a year.
> >
> > Exaggeration, -1.
>
> Excuse me, what? This is exactly what happened for this past freeze,
> so you can take tha
also sprach Pierre Habouzit [2009.08.05.2333 +0200]:
> But speaking from my experience as an employee of a software editor, I
> can tell that the distribution diversity is a huge problem when it comes
> to distributing our work. If your client use a Ubuntu LTS, a RHEL, a
> SuSE or worst for some,
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