Re: Voting on messages: a way to resolve the mailing list problems

2008-12-20 Thread George Danchev
On Sunday 21 December 2008 03:49:44 Anthony Towns wrote: > On Sat, Dec 20, 2008 at 10:35:14AM +, Jurij Smakov wrote: > > * "Vocal minority" dominates "silent majority" by contributing a > > disproportionate amount of list traffic, [...] > > Note that voting can have a similar drawback -- in tha

Re: Voting on messages: a way to resolve the mailing list problems

2008-12-20 Thread Anthony Towns
On Sat, Dec 20, 2008 at 10:35:14AM +, Jurij Smakov wrote: > * "Vocal minority" dominates "silent majority" by contributing a > disproportionate amount of list traffic, [...] Note that voting can have a similar drawback -- in that if you've got enough like-minded people voting for a particular

Re: Voting on messages: a way to resolve the mailing list problems

2008-12-20 Thread Michael Banck
On Sun, Dec 21, 2008 at 09:38:56AM +1100, Ben Finney wrote: > George Danchev writes: > > > On Saturday 20 December 2008 21:33:27 MJ Ray wrote: > > > So, people who remain on the debian mailing lists have a poor > > > understanding of what should appear a good mailing list, > > > > What makes you

Re: Voting on messages: a way to resolve the mailing list problems

2008-12-20 Thread Ben Finney
George Danchev writes: > On Saturday 20 December 2008 21:33:27 MJ Ray wrote: > > So, people who remain on the debian mailing lists have a poor > > understanding of what should appear a good mailing list, > > What makes you think that "vocal minority" is larger than "silent > majority" in debian

Re: Voting on messages: a way to resolve the mailing list problems

2008-12-20 Thread Ben Pfaff
Florian Weimer writes: > * MJ Ray: > >> Jurij Smakov wrote: [...] >>> So, what can we do about? During a little brainstorming session on IRC >>> last night a following idea has emerged: let's have a way to express >>> our opinion about the mailing list posts. [...] >> >> So, people who remain

Re: Voting on messages: a way to resolve the mailing list problems

2008-12-20 Thread Florian Weimer
* MJ Ray: > Jurij Smakov wrote: [...] >> So, what can we do about? During a little brainstorming session on IRC >> last night a following idea has emerged: let's have a way to express >> our opinion about the mailing list posts. [...] > > So, people who remain on the debian mailing lists have a

Re: Voting on messages: a way to resolve the mailing list problems

2008-12-20 Thread George Danchev
On Saturday 20 December 2008 21:33:27 MJ Ray wrote: > Jurij Smakov wrote: [...] > > > So, what can we do about? During a little brainstorming session on IRC > > last night a following idea has emerged: let's have a way to express > > our opinion about the mailing list posts. [...] > > So, people w

Re: Voting on messages: a way to resolve the mailing list problems

2008-12-20 Thread MJ Ray
Jurij Smakov wrote: [...] > So, what can we do about? During a little brainstorming session on IRC > last night a following idea has emerged: let's have a way to express > our opinion about the mailing list posts. [...] So, people who remain on the debian mailing lists have a poor understanding

Re: RFC: General resolution: Clarify the status of the social contract

2008-12-20 Thread Steve Langasek
On Sat, Dec 20, 2008 at 08:23:27AM +, Matthew Johnson wrote: > If this vote is 1:1 then there's no point in the 3:1 requirement since > you can just ignore them with a 1:1 vote. When we (using the term > loosely, since it doesn't include me) voted in the constitution, surely > the 3:1 requireme

Re: Voting on messages: a way to resolve the mailing list problems

2008-12-20 Thread Russ Allbery
Stefano Zacchiroli writes: > On Sat, Dec 20, 2008 at 10:35:14AM +, Jurij Smakov wrote: >> It is generally perceived that there are currently a couple of >> problems with the way discussions happen on our mailing lists: > I'm not sure yet if I like the idea, but for sure it is an intriguing >

Re: Voting on messages: a way to resolve the mailing list problems

2008-12-20 Thread Jurij Smakov
On Sat, Dec 20, 2008 at 05:02:23PM +0100, David Paleino wrote: > On Sat, 20 Dec 2008 10:35:14 +, Jurij Smakov wrote: > > > I believe that at this point Nick Rusnov, John Goerzen and myself have > > expressed interest in working on the first stage of the project. If > > you have any ideas or

Re: Voting on messages: a way to resolve the mailing list problems

2008-12-20 Thread Charles Plessy
Le Sat, Dec 20, 2008 at 07:12:15PM +0200, Teemu Likonen a écrit : > > Maybe even add an additional header to mailing-list posts, like > "X-Debian-Author-Karma: +234". OK, maybe not. It's not terribly reliable > on public mailing lists because users can change their From addresses as > they want. B

Re: Voting on messages: a way to resolve the mailing list problems

2008-12-20 Thread Teemu Likonen
Raphael Hertzog (2008-12-20 17:41 +0100) wrote: > On Sat, 20 Dec 2008, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote: >> seemed to be more oriented to scoring single posts, while here you >> are kind of inheriting a score on the poster from his posts. They are >> two quite different approaches. > > They are different

Re: RFC: General resolution: Clarify the status of the social contract

2008-12-20 Thread Felipe Sateler
Manoj Srivastava wrote: > I like the idea of clarifying what the principles of the project > actually are, since, as aj said, all the decisions about lenny would > fall out from the position the project take about the foundation > documents. While I have always thought that "foundation" implied  t

Re: Voting on messages: a way to resolve the mailing list problems

2008-12-20 Thread Raphael Hertzog
On Sat, 20 Dec 2008, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote: > [ re-ordering the quoted text, anticipating your reply to my post ] > > On Sat, Dec 20, 2008 at 04:35:43PM +0100, Raphael Hertzog wrote: > > The goal is not (necessarily to) filter the messages that we want to > > see or not, the goal is to give fee

Re: Voting on messages: a way to resolve the mailing list problems

2008-12-20 Thread Stefano Zacchiroli
[ re-ordering the quoted text, anticipating your reply to my post ] On Sat, Dec 20, 2008 at 04:35:43PM +0100, Raphael Hertzog wrote: > The goal is not (necessarily to) filter the messages that we want to > see or not, the goal is to give feedback to contributors so that > they know if their messag

Re: Voting on messages: a way to resolve the mailing list problems

2008-12-20 Thread David Paleino
On Sat, 20 Dec 2008 10:35:14 +, Jurij Smakov wrote: > I believe that at this point Nick Rusnov, John Goerzen and myself have > expressed interest in working on the first stage of the project. If > you have any ideas or comments - please share, we would also welcome > your contribution if yo

Re: Voting on messages: a way to resolve the mailing list problems

2008-12-20 Thread Raphael Hertzog
Hello, On Sat, 20 Dec 2008, Jurij Smakov wrote: > and so on. The way I would like to see this idea developing is that it > starts as an unofficial project, with very simple rules (like, "you > can vote once for each message ID"), which simply collects the data > and makes it publicly available

Re: Voting on messages: a way to resolve the mailing list problems

2008-12-20 Thread Stefano Zacchiroli
On Sat, Dec 20, 2008 at 10:35:14AM +, Jurij Smakov wrote: > It is generally perceived that there are currently a couple of > problems with the way discussions happen on our mailing lists: I'm not sure yet if I like the idea, but for sure it is an intriguing one, thanks for pushing it through!

Re: RFC: General resolution: Clarify the status of the social contract

2008-12-20 Thread Antti-Juhani Kaijanaho
On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 05:08:57PM -0600, Manoj Srivastava wrote: > The social contract is supposedly a contract. The Social Contract is not a contract (even though it is called that - but I believe the name is an intentional reference to a famous concept in political philosophy). A contr

Voting on messages: a way to resolve the mailing list problems

2008-12-20 Thread Jurij Smakov
Hi, It is generally perceived that there are currently a couple of problems with the way discussions happen on our mailing lists: * Some people are put off from participating in the discussions on important topics because they are not willing to expose themselves to offensive behaviour and per

Re: RFC: General resolution: Clarify the status of the social contract

2008-12-20 Thread Matthew Johnson
On Fri Dec 19 20:55, Raphael Geissert wrote: > > ,[ The social contract is a non-binding advisory document ] > > | This amends the proposal above, and replaces the text of the proposal > > | with: The developers, via a general resolution, determine that the > > | social contract is a stateme

Re: RFC: General resolution: Clarify the status of the social contract

2008-12-20 Thread Matthew Johnson
On Sat Dec 20 14:52, Anthony Towns wrote: > On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 08:31:34PM +, Matthew Johnson wrote: > > I assume any final proposal would explicitly amend the SC/constitution > > to state this. In fact, I'm tempted to say that _all_ of these should > > include SC/Constitution amendments to