Re: GPLed software with no true source. Was: Bug#402650: ITP: mozilla-foxyproxy

2007-01-30 Thread Evan Prodromou
On Tue, 2007-30-01 at 11:54 -0800, Don Armstrong wrote: > This refrain keeps getting repeated, but still no one has explained > how distributing a form of the work which is _not_ the prefered form > for modification satisfies section 3 of the GPL: So, I think we all readily admit that _some_ tran

Re: GPLed software with no true source. Was: Bug#402650: ITP: mozilla-foxyproxy

2007-01-30 Thread Ben Finney
Don Armstrong <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > [If the argument is that figuring out whether or not the people is > lying is difficult and requires judgement, then I agree. I've been > trying to ignore that facet completely because it's not particularly > interesting to me. Please play along and igno

Re: GPLed software with no true source. Was: Bug#402650: ITP: mozilla-foxyproxy

2007-01-30 Thread Wesley J. Landaker
On Tuesday 30 January 2007 13:48, Don Armstrong wrote: > The upstream maintainer. Whatever form(s) of the work the upstream > maintainer actually uses to modify the work is the prefered form for > modification. You keep saying this over and over, but it's just your opinion, not the way the licens

Re: GPLed software with no true source. Was: Bug#402650: ITP: mozilla-foxyproxy

2007-01-30 Thread Yaroslav Halchenko
> Le mardi 30 janvier 2007 à 09:49 -0500, Yaroslav Halchenko a écrit > > Thanks everyone for help -- I've got the point now ;-) Well -- I > > postpone this ITP and will wait for source code release > This is your choice, but most people here agreed that you don't need > to. I just don't want to rel

Re: GPLed software with no true source. Was: Bug#402650: ITP: mozilla-foxyproxy

2007-01-30 Thread Don Armstrong
On Wed, 31 Jan 2007, Nick Phillips wrote: > On 31/01/2007, at 9:48 AM, Don Armstrong wrote: > >The upstream maintainer. Whatever form(s) of the work the upstream > >maintainer actually uses to modify the work is the prefered form > >for modification. > > Perhaps you could add a "wheee" every t

Re: GPLed software with no true source. Was: Bug#402650: ITP: mozilla-foxyproxy

2007-01-30 Thread Don Armstrong
On Tue, 30 Jan 2007, Sean Kellogg wrote: > On Tuesday 30 January 2007 12:48:15 pm Don Armstrong wrote: > > On Tue, 30 Jan 2007, Joey Hess wrote: > > > Don Armstrong wrote: > > > > The bright line is actually pretty straight forward: Do you modify the > > > > file with syntactic whitespace or the fi

Re: GPLed software with no true source. Was: Bug#402650: ITP: mozilla-foxyproxy

2007-01-30 Thread Josselin Mouette
Le mardi 30 janvier 2007 à 09:49 -0500, Yaroslav Halchenko a écrit : > Thanks everyone for help -- I've got the point now ;-) > > Well -- I postpone this ITP and will wait for source code release This is your choice, but most people here agreed that you don't need to. -- .''`. : :' : We ar

Re: GPLed software with no true source. Was: Bug#402650: ITP: mozilla-foxyproxy

2007-01-30 Thread Nick Phillips
On 31/01/2007, at 9:48 AM, Don Armstrong wrote: On Tue, 30 Jan 2007, Joey Hess wrote: Don Armstrong wrote: The bright line is actually pretty straight forward: Do you modify the file with syntactic whitespace or the file without? Is it preferable to modify the file without the keyword expans

Re: GPLed software with no true source. Was: Bug#402650: ITP: mozilla-foxyproxy

2007-01-30 Thread Sean Kellogg
On Tuesday 30 January 2007 12:48:15 pm Don Armstrong wrote: > On Tue, 30 Jan 2007, Joey Hess wrote: > > Don Armstrong wrote: > > > The bright line is actually pretty straight forward: Do you modify the > > > file with syntactic whitespace or the file without? Is it preferable > > > to modify the fi

Re: GPLed software with no true source. Was: Bug#402650: ITP: mozilla-foxyproxy

2007-01-30 Thread Don Armstrong
On Tue, 30 Jan 2007, Joey Hess wrote: > Don Armstrong wrote: > > The bright line is actually pretty straight forward: Do you modify the > > file with syntactic whitespace or the file without? Is it preferable > > to modify the file without the keyword expansion or with? > > Preferable by whom? T

Re: GPLed software with no true source. Was: Bug#402650: ITP: mozilla-foxyproxy

2007-01-30 Thread Joey Hess
Don Armstrong wrote: > The bright line is actually pretty straight forward: Do you modify the > file with syntactic whitespace or the file without? Is it preferable > to modify the file without the keyword expansion or with? Preferable by whom? That is a matter of personal preference and taste, wh

Re: GPLed software with no true source. Was: Bug#402650: ITP: mozilla-foxyproxy

2007-01-30 Thread Don Armstrong
On Tue, 30 Jan 2007, Stephen Gran wrote: > Just pointing out that it doesn't break our ability to > redistribute under the GPL. This refrain keeps getting repeated, but still no one has explained how distributing a form of the work which is _not_ the prefered form for modification satisfies sectio

Re: GPLed software with no true source. Was: Bug#402650: ITP: mozilla-foxyproxy

2007-01-30 Thread Stephen Gran
This one time, at band camp, Don Armstrong said: > > However, even removing the white space from a program can make it > signficantly more difficult to debug and comprehend, even though it > can be reversed with tools that are readily available. I don't think anyone is arguing that this sort of t

Re: GPLed software with no true source. Was: Bug#402650: ITP: mozilla-foxyproxy

2007-01-30 Thread Don Armstrong
On Tue, 30 Jan 2007, Evan Prodromou wrote: > On Tue, 2007-30-01 at 03:30 -0800, Don Armstrong wrote: > > The bright line is actually pretty straight forward: Do you modify the > > file with syntactic whitespace or the file without? Is it preferable > > to modify the file without the keyword expans

Re: GPLed software with no true source. Was: Bug#402650: ITP: mozilla-foxyproxy

2007-01-30 Thread Trent Buck
Joey Hess <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Consider also a text editor that automatically calculates and > displays whitespace, while not bothering to save it to the output > files. That is a plausable explanation for the behavior of the > upstream author in the head of this thread. For the record, a

Re: GPLed software with no true source. Was: Bug#402650: ITP: mozilla-foxyproxy

2007-01-30 Thread Yaroslav Halchenko
Thanks everyone for help -- I've got the point now ;-) Well -- I postpone this ITP and will wait for source code release > It's been mentioned "are you complying with the GPL if you distribute > obfuscated source?". I'd say "yes", > because you're distributing it unmodified as per what the orig

Re: GPLed software with no true source. Was: Bug#402650: ITP: mozilla-foxyproxy

2007-01-30 Thread Evan Prodromou
On Tue, 2007-30-01 at 03:30 -0800, Don Armstrong wrote: > The bright line is actually pretty straight forward: Do you modify the > file with syntactic whitespace or the file without? Is it preferable > to modify the file without the keyword expansion or with? That's not a very good line at all. I

Re: GPLed software with no true source. Was: Bug#402650: ITP: mozilla-foxyproxy

2007-01-30 Thread Anthony W. Youngman
In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Yaroslav Halchenko <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes I've ran into a problem: given firefox extension released under GPL as shipped (.xpi files) has obscured .js files -- all formatting was removed. I've asked the upstream to provide proper source code, but so far he eff

Re: GPLed software with no true source. Was: Bug#402650: ITP: mozilla-foxyproxy

2007-01-30 Thread Don Armstrong
On Tue, 30 Jan 2007, Joey Hess wrote: > Don Armstrong wrote: > > Obviously we should try to figure out if the author was lying or > > making fun of -legal first, but if it was actually true and > > debhelper was GPLed, then we can't do anything else. > > Why? Because it wouldn't be the prefered f

Re: GPLed software with no true source. Was: Bug#402650: ITP: mozilla-foxyproxy

2007-01-30 Thread MJ Ray
Joey Hess <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I'm repeating this since it was buried in a footnote in a probably > pointless subthread. There's no particular reason why a development > environment for java or a similar language would need to include > whitespace in the source files it saves. The whitespac

Re: GPLed software with no true source. Was: Bug#402650: ITP: mozilla-foxyproxy

2007-01-30 Thread MJ Ray
Yaroslav Halchenko <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: [...] > If I understood GPL license correctly, upstream author simply can't > release anything under GPL if he doesn't provide sources. Whenever I've > asked on mozilla's addons IRC I've got reply as > \"afaik he codes himself, and so if he writes on hi

Re: GPLed software with no true source. Was: Bug#402650: ITP: mozilla-foxyproxy

2007-01-30 Thread Joey Hess
Yaroslav Halchenko wrote: > I've asked the upstream to provide proper source code, but so far he > effectively refused to do that, although it seems to be a very simple > operation to perform. I'm repeating this since it was buried in a footnote in a probably pointless subthread. There's no partic

Re: GPLed software with no true source. Was: Bug#402650: ITP: mozilla-foxyproxy

2007-01-30 Thread Joey Hess
Don Armstrong wrote: > Obviously we should try to figure out if the author was lying or > making fun of -legal first, but if it was actually true and debhelper > was GPLed, then we can't do anything else. Why? debhelper is also developed in vim[1], I don't have to ship vim with it, why would I nee