> BTW, what tool did you use?
apt-cache showpkg java-virtual-machine
(and look in the Reverse Depends section).
Note that this pulls in Recommends: j-v-m and Suggests: j-v-m as well,
which is presumably why my search picked up more packages than yours. In
particular my search picks up a number
> > Programs must depend on the needed runtime environments, including
> > working versions if the bin/java unfree interfaces.
>
> bzzt! ;)
>
> this 'let's make free software in debian depend on non-free software'
> proposal is incompatible with debian's goal, afaik. turn that into a
> 'may dep
Hallo Jan,
--- Jan Schulz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> * unfree interfaces are now 'additional to' the normal (free) debian
> packages, which provide a certain functionality
good.
> * java compilers are now use via ant, via an 'ant environment' or must
> be referenced directly (i.e. you nee
Hi Mark,
--- Mark Wielaard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > >> * Javah relies on a special sun.com...javah.Main class. Doesn't matter..
> > >gcj comes with gcjh which should be able to do everything javah does
> > >(given the -jni flag).
> >
> > But as it is now, it won't be useable form ant. O
Hallo Jan,
--- Jan Schulz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> Yes, but to make this policy os do something else is IMO not possible.
> >> Especially, if we have to consider, that ant should behave 'normaly',
> >> when used to develop java apps in, for example, eclipse.
> >How do you define normally?
Hi Mark,
--- Mark Wielaard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > [..] ANT_BUILD_COMPILER with the short-name or the full qualified
> > classname of the java compiler [..]
> >
> > Also, for the default environemt, it needs to include the tools.jar.
>
> Yuck. What does this tools.jar provide?
nothin
Hallo Jan,
--- Jan Schulz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >I think it would be a good idea to set some sort of policy for this. See
> >e.g. the two different gjdoc packages (gjdoc and gjdoc-native). Why have
> >the gjdoc version that depends on byte code when there is already a
> >normal native appl
Hallo Jan,
--- Jan Schulz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hallo Dalibor,
>
> * Dalibor Topic wrote:
> >> I much for this, but it will need 'protection', so that this system
> >> prevents to mistake kaffe for a sun compatible JVM-1.4.
> >Could you elaborate on this one, as in give an example where ka
Hallo Ben,
* Ben Burton wrote:
>> Currently almost every java app is in contrib: eclipse, tomcat, ant.
>Running a quick check, there are 48 packages that depend on
>java-virtual-machine (which from policy I thus assume to be java apps or
>libs).
BTW, what tool did you use?
>28 in contrib;
>2 in
> BTW, what tool did you use?
apt-cache showpkg java-virtual-machine
(and look in the Reverse Depends section).
Note that this pulls in Recommends: j-v-m and Suggests: j-v-m as well,
which is presumably why my search picked up more packages than yours. In
particular my search picks up a number
> > Programs must depend on the needed runtime environments, including
> > working versions if the bin/java unfree interfaces.
>
> bzzt! ;)
>
> this 'let's make free software in debian depend on non-free software'
> proposal is incompatible with debian's goal, afaik. turn that into a
> 'may dep
> Currently almost every java app is in contrib: eclipse, tomcat, ant.
Running a quick check, there are 48 packages that depend on
java-virtual-machine (which from policy I thus assume to be java apps or
libs).
28 in contrib;
2 in non-free;
18 in main.
That's only about 60% in contrib, certainl
> >I'm not really comfortable with the idea of "don't test, just assume it
> >works until someone tells you otherwise". Yes, it happened with flex
> >but that was a once-off. With this java proposal it will become
> >institutionalised.
>
> It is already institutionalised.
> ...
Yes, but in the
Hallo Jan,
--- Jan Schulz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> * unfree interfaces are now 'additional to' the normal (free) debian
> packages, which provide a certain functionality
good.
> * java compilers are now use via ant, via an 'ant environment' or must
> be referenced directly (i.e. you nee
Hi Mark,
--- Mark Wielaard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > >> * Javah relies on a special sun.com...javah.Main class. Doesn't matter..
> > >gcj comes with gcjh which should be able to do everything javah does
> > >(given the -jni flag).
> >
> > But as it is now, it won't be useable form ant. O
Hallo Jan,
--- Jan Schulz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> Yes, but to make this policy os do something else is IMO not possible.
> >> Especially, if we have to consider, that ant should behave 'normaly',
> >> when used to develop java apps in, for example, eclipse.
> >How do you define normally?
Hi Mark,
--- Mark Wielaard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > [..] ANT_BUILD_COMPILER with the short-name or the full qualified
> > classname of the java compiler [..]
> >
> > Also, for the default environemt, it needs to include the tools.jar.
>
> Yuck. What does this tools.jar provide?
nothin
Hallo Jan,
--- Jan Schulz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >I think it would be a good idea to set some sort of policy for this. See
> >e.g. the two different gjdoc packages (gjdoc and gjdoc-native). Why have
> >the gjdoc version that depends on byte code when there is already a
> >normal native appl
Hallo Jan,
--- Jan Schulz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hallo Dalibor,
>
> * Dalibor Topic wrote:
> >> I much for this, but it will need 'protection', so that this system
> >> prevents to mistake kaffe for a sun compatible JVM-1.4.
> >Could you elaborate on this one, as in give an example where ka
Hallo Ben,
* Ben Burton wrote:
>> Currently almost every java app is in contrib: eclipse, tomcat, ant.
>Running a quick check, there are 48 packages that depend on
>java-virtual-machine (which from policy I thus assume to be java apps or
>libs).
BTW, what tool did you use?
>28 in contrib;
>2 in
> Currently almost every java app is in contrib: eclipse, tomcat, ant.
Running a quick check, there are 48 packages that depend on
java-virtual-machine (which from policy I thus assume to be java apps or
libs).
28 in contrib;
2 in non-free;
18 in main.
That's only about 60% in contrib, certainl
> >I'm not really comfortable with the idea of "don't test, just assume it
> >works until someone tells you otherwise". Yes, it happened with flex
> >but that was a once-off. With this java proposal it will become
> >institutionalised.
>
> It is already institutionalised.
> ...
Yes, but in the
Hallo Dalibor,
* Dalibor Topic wrote:
>The definition of what's to be expected as normal keeps changing all the time
>in the java world, as I'm trying to make clear with my questions on your
>interpretation of java's class loading semantics.
>From your point, but not from the guy starting a java
Hallo Ben,
* Ben Burton wrote:
>FWIW (DFSG, point 4):
> "We will be guided by the needs of our users and the free-software
> community. We will place their interests first in our priorities."
>I would therefore very much expect Java policy to be designed with free
>JVMs as the focus, not as an
Hallo Mark,
* Mark Wielaard wrote:
>On Sat, 2003-09-06 at 22:26, Jan Schulz wrote:
>> The problem in debian is to find out this java.
>> This should be adressed in this proposal.
>Why this fixation on this one program name?
Do you have a better name for 'programm, which runs java byte code'?
for
Hallo Ben,
* Ben Burton wrote:
>> |You must depend on all working java virtual maschines and search all
>> |this packages for the java virtual maschine binary.
>Yes.
Included...
>> I thought that this was fairly obvious... I mean, it's pretty stupit
>> if not :)
>There are lots of things in debi
Hallo Ben,
* Ben Burton wrote:
>> >> 2.2. Java Development Tools
>> >Ant is used by some packages, but why mandate that ant must be used?
>FWIW, this "should use ant" directive occurs in two places. Once in
>section 2.7 (which you said earlier that you'd changed and which I
>suspect is the if/el
Hallo Dalibor,
* Dalibor Topic wrote:
>The definition of what's to be expected as normal keeps changing all the time
>in the java world, as I'm trying to make clear with my questions on your
>interpretation of java's class loading semantics.
>From your point, but not from the guy starting a java
Hallo Jan,
--- Jan Schulz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hallo Dalibor,
>
> * Dalibor Topic wrote:
> >> I wanted to say, that you have a interface for the 'unfree' ones and
> >> this interface will work, even if you have 'not working' JVM
> >> installed. The current interface (/usr/bin/java) does n
Hallo Jan,
--- Jan Schulz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hallo Dalibor,
>
> * Dalibor Topic wrote:
> [rant about JAVA_HOME]
> >I don't think that's a good foundation to build a policy on ;)
>
> Is the current proposal better?
Much better, actually, although I still have some issues with it. But I
Hallo Jan,
--- Jan Schulz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hallo Dalibor,
>
> * Dalibor Topic wrote:
> >Why do you assume familiarity with some command line synopsis? The effect of
> >-classpath a.jar:b.jar for example can have different effects depending on
> the
> >VM used, and its version. That's
--- Mark Wielaard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I have no idea, how far you've looked into the current implemntation
> > to make this possible, so I just give you some of my impressions, from
> > packaging eclipse.
> > * Eclipse wasn't yet able to run with free JVM (kaffee 1.1.1 might
> > chan
Hi Ben,
--- Ben Burton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > I haven't used JNI much, so it would be nice if someone who packages a JNI
> > library could chip in here and provide some insight about what's necesary,
> and
> > how they use to find it.
>
> For libreadline-java:
>
> It builds explicitly
Hallo Ben,
* Ben Burton wrote:
>FWIW (DFSG, point 4):
> "We will be guided by the needs of our users and the free-software
> community. We will place their interests first in our priorities."
>I would therefore very much expect Java policy to be designed with free
>JVMs as the focus, not as an
Hallo Mark,
* Mark Wielaard wrote:
>On Sat, 2003-09-06 at 22:26, Jan Schulz wrote:
>> The problem in debian is to find out this java.
>> This should be adressed in this proposal.
>Why this fixation on this one program name?
Do you have a better name for 'programm, which runs java byte code'?
for
Hallo Ben,
* Ben Burton wrote:
>> |You must depend on all working java virtual maschines and search all
>> |this packages for the java virtual maschine binary.
>Yes.
Included...
>> I thought that this was fairly obvious... I mean, it's pretty stupit
>> if not :)
>There are lots of things in debi
Hallo Ben,
* Ben Burton wrote:
>> >> 2.2. Java Development Tools
>> >Ant is used by some packages, but why mandate that ant must be used?
>FWIW, this "should use ant" directive occurs in two places. Once in
>section 2.7 (which you said earlier that you'd changed and which I
>suspect is the if/el
Hallo Jan,
--- Jan Schulz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hallo Dalibor,
>
> * Dalibor Topic wrote:
> >> I wanted to say, that you have a interface for the 'unfree' ones and
> >> this interface will work, even if you have 'not working' JVM
> >> installed. The current interface (/usr/bin/java) does n
Hallo Jan,
--- Jan Schulz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hallo Dalibor,
>
> * Dalibor Topic wrote:
> [rant about JAVA_HOME]
> >I don't think that's a good foundation to build a policy on ;)
>
> Is the current proposal better?
Much better, actually, although I still have some issues with it. But I
Hallo Jan,
--- Jan Schulz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hallo Dalibor,
>
> * Dalibor Topic wrote:
> >Why do you assume familiarity with some command line synopsis? The effect of
> >-classpath a.jar:b.jar for example can have different effects depending on
> the
> >VM used, and its version. That's
--- Mark Wielaard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I have no idea, how far you've looked into the current implemntation
> > to make this possible, so I just give you some of my impressions, from
> > packaging eclipse.
> > * Eclipse wasn't yet able to run with free JVM (kaffee 1.1.1 might
> > chan
Hi Ben,
--- Ben Burton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > I haven't used JNI much, so it would be nice if someone who packages a JNI
> > library could chip in here and provide some insight about what's necesary,
> and
> > how they use to find it.
>
> For libreadline-java:
>
> It builds explicitly
Mark Howard wrote:
Hi,
I've recently needed to use a http proxy with java.net methods. To set
this, the options -Dhttp.proxyHost=wwwcache.bris.ac.uk
-Dhttp.proxyPort=8080 have to be set on the java command. j2se1.4 did
not recognise http_proxy environment variables, even though they are
set.
I
Mark Howard wrote:
Hi,
I've recently needed to use a http proxy with java.net methods. To set
this, the options -Dhttp.proxyHost=wwwcache.bris.ac.uk
-Dhttp.proxyPort=8080 have to be set on the java command. j2se1.4 did
not recognise http_proxy environment variables, even though they are
set.
I
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