Re: Hurd LX image>>check it out

2007-07-22 Thread Alfred M. Szmidt
> I can seed it on linuxtracker, if somebody wants to.. I can't understand from the thread what it is. Is it a GNU installer, a Hurd ISO or what? It is version of Debian GNU/Hurd, I think. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact

Re: Is HURD and related projects stuck?

2007-05-20 Thread Alfred M. Szmidt
It simply halted during the boot of the system. Sounds as a IRQ conflict. The latest version of HURD is 4 years old. It is more like 10 years old actually, Hurd 0.2 and GNU 0.2 were released in 1997. The latest snapshot of the GNU system[0] is 2006-01-08, but don't let the date fool you,

Re: Emacs segfaults when in X

2007-03-30 Thread Alfred M. Szmidt
Please use Emacs from CVS. Emacs 21.x does not work on GNU without patches. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Removing translators from nodes

2007-01-29 Thread Alfred M. Szmidt
In fact, as far as I can tell we don't have a switch to tell `settrans' to _only_ remove a running active translator from a node, which would be useful to have. ~$ settrans -acp h /hurd/hello ~$ cat hello Hello, world! ~$ settrans -ag ~$ ps uxa|grep hello root 7349 0.0 0.2 145M 7

Re: Toolchain TLS support

2006-09-05 Thread Alfred M. Szmidt
> glibc hasn't worked out of the box for atleast a year since > malloc/memusage.c uses __thread without #if's. Ok so glibc 2.4 as such doesn't work (that was the original question). glibc since 2.3 hasn't worked out of the box, either CVS or otherwise. Nor will the malloc/memusage.c t

Re: Toolchain TLS support

2006-09-05 Thread Alfred M. Szmidt
> As I said, these patches will become avaiable with time. But as > such, both GCC and GLIBC work fine on GNU; you are of course free > to inisist on otherwise if that makes you happy. By "as such", do you mean "upstream glibc 2.4 release and gcc 4.1", or your patched versions? Th

Re: Toolchain TLS support

2006-09-05 Thread Alfred M. Szmidt
As I said, these patches will become avaiable with time. But as such, both GCC and GLIBC work fine on GNU; you are of course free to inisist on otherwise if that makes you happy. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Toolchain TLS support

2006-09-05 Thread Alfred M. Szmidt
glibc 2.4 is completely unusable for GNU/Hurd at the moment, Not true. It might be true for Debian GNU/Hurd though. Also, a GCC 4.1-build glibc doesn't work correctly: it already fails during the building process, as soon as the newly created libc.so is being used (might also be ld.s

Re: bazaar

2006-03-01 Thread Alfred M. Szmidt
OK, building bazaar. There is a patch for tla (should be included in 1.3.4) that fixes all known issues in libhackerlab, maybe it could be used for bazaar since they are kinda the same. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL P

Re: Debian GNU/Hurd Questions

2006-01-02 Thread Alfred M. Szmidt
Hi! This is all answered in the Debian GNU/Hurd installation guide, and the GRUB manual. See http://www.debian.org/ports/hurd and `info grub' (you might need a special packaged installed on some GNU/Linux systems). Happy hacking! -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of

Re: Staying up to date

2005-12-22 Thread Alfred M. Szmidt
this should be a easy question, but I'm getting confused becouse the contradictory info I'm reading out there. Which web page should I read to stay up to date about hurd? The Hurd project web page, http://www.gnu.org/software/hurd/ This is the offical place for any information and news

Re: Not able to configure network

2005-12-14 Thread Alfred M. Szmidt
> Having poked around, D-Link DE-600 should be supported, could you > run the following command and tell us what you get? > > devprobe eth0 eth1 It does not show any output. Then it isn't detected. Is it maybe sharing an IRQ with another device so that GNU Mach gets confused and t

Re: Not able to configure network

2005-12-13 Thread Alfred M. Szmidt
> What kind of NIC do you have? A D-Link DE-600 by the looks of it, that may not be supported. Having poked around, D-Link DE-600 should be supported, could you run the following command and tell us what you get? devprobe eth0 eth1 (Thank you for changing to using normal text!) -- To U

Re: Bug#340348: hurd: LAN interface dies on connection problem

2005-11-23 Thread Alfred M. Szmidt
There is nothing wrong with using group replies, it is the bug reporting software that is broken, not my usage of group replies. Group replies as you call it is the standard way of replying to mails posted to a mailing list. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubs

Bug#340348: hurd: LAN interface dies on connection problem

2005-11-23 Thread Alfred M. Szmidt
Please report bugs that are related to the Hurd or GNU Mach, to the Hurd projects bug tracker. http://sv.gnu.org/hurd If possible, always try to show a backtrace using gdb. See the gdb manual for info on how to do just that. Thank you. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a sub

Re: system stops booting

2005-11-19 Thread Alfred M. Szmidt
kernel /boot/gnumach.gz root=device:hd2s1 -s module /hurd/ext2fs.static --multiboot-command-line=${kernel-command-line} --host-priv-port=${host-port} --device-master-port=${device-port} --exec-server-task=${exec-task} -T typed ${root} $(task-create) $(task-resume) module /li

Bug#46709: Bug status

2005-10-30 Thread Alfred M. Szmidt
Is this security bug still open, after more than six years? Yes, but it doesn't belong in the Debian BTS. It would be nice if someone could file all these bug reports into the proper place, http://sv.gnu.org/p/hurd. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscrib

Re: boot_script_task_resume failed with 4

2005-10-12 Thread Alfred M. Szmidt
title GNU/Hurd mono utilisateur (hd2s1) root(hd1,0) kernel /boot/gnumach.gz root=device:hd2s1 -s module /hurd/ext2fs.static \ --multiboot-command-line=${kernel-command-line} \ --host-priv-port=${host-port} \ --device-master-port=${

Re: gcc-4.0 built glibc and hurd packages

2005-10-05 Thread Alfred M. Szmidt
Please don't move to glibc with gcc 4.x compiled just yet. It is fubar. Basicly you're lucky that it actually works. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]

gdb package

2005-09-29 Thread Alfred M. Szmidt
The gdb package in Debian is fucked up (I have no politer way of saying it, this thing wasted me a couple of hours of sleep), info file causes segfaults, and doing stepi in some circumstances will just jump to $pc+0xcc or some such. For example: (gdb) si 0xf412 279 __mig_deallo

Re: Serial console install?

2005-09-25 Thread Alfred M. Szmidt
Id like todo a install completely over serial console. Anychance there is a easy way to go about this? Not without hacking the install process, and making it setup the console for serial debugging, which kinda means a properly configured system. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECT

Re: technical question about the debian-hurd list

2005-09-17 Thread Alfred M. Szmidt
furthermore i would consider a "[debian-hurd]"-subjects as kind of good mailing list style. It is a bad style. The information about from which mailing list if any is already stored in the header of a message. No need to duplicate it in the subject and waste valuable space there. Just fil

Re: When Hurd on L4?

2005-08-10 Thread Alfred M. Szmidt
I thought it can run the applications now... It can run banner if that is what you mean, but it isn't usable for any thing other than testing various primitive bits right now. BTW, I'm looking for Hurd image for QEMU. Do you know if the Hurd on Mach run on QEMU? It does, but I do not kn

Re: When Hurd on L4?

2005-08-10 Thread Alfred M. Szmidt
When will you package Hurd ran on L4 microkernel? When it is usable. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: /usr -> .

2005-07-22 Thread Alfred M. Szmidt
> What about a firmlink? That would solve all problems. What is a firmlink? /hurd/firmlink --help, [hurd]/trans/firmlink.c. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: /usr -> .

2005-07-22 Thread Alfred M. Szmidt
So the problem remains : if you put /bin first in your PATH, you'll have configure discover 'gzip' in /bin (which is the right thing) and 'pager' in /bin (which is the wrong thing), and if you put /usr/bin first you'll have the same problem the other way around. I see that I misunderst

Re: /usr -> .

2005-07-22 Thread Alfred M. Szmidt
> What about a firmlink? That would solve all problems. Would it ? Yes. You don't get the funky side-effects of symlinks. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: /usr -> .

2005-07-22 Thread Alfred M. Szmidt
What about a firmlink? That would solve all problems. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Bug#313560: /dev/{null,zero,full} should not be run as root

2005-06-14 Thread Alfred M. Szmidt
This should be filed upstreams since it isn't a Debian GNU/Hurd bug. I have filed it into the SV bug tracker, could someone close this? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Hurd drivers (was Re: Driver Authoring????)

2005-06-05 Thread Alfred M. Szmidt
You'd be everyone's hero, however, most people who tried that lost their sanity down the road. Nobody has ever tried porting Linux >2.0 driver to Mach to my knowledge. Anyway, the current drivers being in use are not only 2.0 drivers, they are a mixture of lots of versions. (#hug or

Re: sshd help: setresgid() isn't working

2005-06-01 Thread Alfred M. Szmidt
Try having a normal user first in the list of euids or auids, this was only when I could get it to fail. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Making via-rhine card to work under hurd...

2005-06-01 Thread Alfred M. Szmidt
No answer, :-( No answer since nobody knows what the answer is, you will need to have to do some hacking on your own. Try checking the obvious if the PCI ID's exist for your card in GNU Mach, and if they do not, try adding them. Sorry, you are on your own unless you send your NIC to someone

Re: ldconfig missing in glibc-2.3.5

2005-05-30 Thread Alfred M. Szmidt
Please fix the build system instead of installing ldconfig and patching glibc to support it on Debian GNU/Hurd. If Debian GNU/Hurd needs a ldconfig for compatbility with Debian GNU/Linux then one should make ldconfig just call /bin/true. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subj

Re: netdb.h problem?

2005-05-30 Thread Alfred M. Szmidt
If so, would this be a bug? Yes it is a "bug", but in tsch and not in glibc's netdb.h header. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Hurd - Emacs giving segmentation fault.

2005-05-13 Thread Alfred M. Szmidt
> Compile Emacs from CVS, it is known to work. Or a Emacs without > Debian patches. FWIW, that is not the problem. I compiled emacs21 without any patches (well, except for the one which fixes a build failure for us), and got the same problems. (cue rant about how Debian's glib

Re: Hurd - Emacs giving segmentation fault.

2005-05-13 Thread Alfred M. Szmidt
Have not got a solution for this problem (getting segmentation fault while running emacs from console itself). No help? Compile Emacs from CVS, it is known to work. Or a Emacs without Debian patches. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble?

Re: libgtop2

2005-05-12 Thread Alfred M. Szmidt
Cpu(s): 5.7% us, 1.1% sy, 4.9% ni, 87.8% id, 0.4% wa, 0.0% hi, 0.1% si Ah, why didn't you say so in the first place? :) You could check what our top does, it is in the hurdextras repository on Savannah in a module called pptop. But it is still buggy, hasn't been touched in three yea

Re: libgtop2

2005-05-12 Thread Alfred M. Szmidt
I've read its code (along with pptop, vmstat, and w, from which I took most of the code, or the ideas, anyway). GNU uptime does not show statistics about CPU usage, as far as I know. Or is it new? (I can't see it in coreutils CVS) It shows CPU load; which I confused with CPU usage. Do

Re: libgtop2

2005-05-11 Thread Alfred M. Szmidt
- I can't find a way to get statistics about CPU usage (user/sys/kernel times, etc.), i.e. what you get in /proc/stat with Linux. Don't recall of hand, but you could look at see what GNU uptime does to get that info. - I did not find a clean way to get the last running PID

Re: gcc-3.4 build failure on hurd-i386

2005-05-04 Thread Alfred M. Szmidt
Again, this should be a Debian-specific change for now. It will be a Debian specific change forever. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: gcc-3.4 build failure on hurd-i386

2005-05-04 Thread Alfred M. Szmidt
Or just hard code it on Debian to /usr/include, even if that is stupid. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: gcc-3.4 build failure on hurd-i386

2005-05-04 Thread Alfred M. Szmidt
#v+ # In GNU, "/usr" is a four-letter word. NATIVE_SYSTEM_HEADER_DIR = /include #v- I think that just changing NATIVE_SYSTEM_HEADER_DIR to: NATIVE_SYSTEM_HEADER_DIR = $(prefix)/include would fix all problems, could someone with a GNU/Hurd system check that? It would kinda break stuf

Re: gcc-3.4 build failure on hurd-i386

2005-05-04 Thread Alfred M. Szmidt
How about making gcc's configure test smart so that when you do "--prefix=" (the normal way to configure any program for the GNU system) it looks for headers in /include /local, and if you do --prefix=/usr (as Debian does) it would look for the files in /usr/include /usr/local? /loc

Re: gcc-3.4 build failure on hurd-i386

2005-05-04 Thread Alfred M. Szmidt
If /usr is a symlink to / and gcc uses /usr/include, it will work. If /usr is a real directory and gcc uses /usr/include, it will work as well. And if /usr doesn't exist, it will not work at all. Hard coding is just bad, period. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subjec

Re: gcc-3.4 build failure on hurd-i386

2005-05-04 Thread Alfred M. Szmidt
How about making gcc's configure test smart so that when you do "--prefix=" (the normal way to configure any program for the GNU system) it looks for headers in /include /local, and if you do --prefix=/usr (as Debian does) it would look for the files in /usr/include /usr/local? This is the right t

Re: GNU Mach source code (was: SiS900)

2005-05-01 Thread Alfred M. Szmidt
However, later it must still be obvious to figure out easily if a committed change is an update from Linux-2.0.x, a backport from e.g. Linux-2.2.x, or a Mach-specific change. The ChangeLog is not always explicit there, at least IMHO. Then I think we should take care to make them clea

Re: SiS900

2005-05-01 Thread Alfred M. Szmidt
You should put Linux's original files (i.e. the versions your patch is based on) into linux/src/ and put your modified files into linux/dev/. The files from linux/dev/ will shadow the linux/src/ ones. I disagree very strongly (and thus disagree with the comment in one of the Makefiles

Re: dhcp pump.c

2005-04-29 Thread Alfred M. Szmidt
I know there is no dhcp support in hurd. Then you know wrong. ;-) Marco hacked together a patch for DHCP, it should be somewhere in the bug-hurd@gnu.org mailing list archives. Then you can just use dhclient to get the IP and other love. [Something about 'hurd/trans/pump.c'...] Does anyone

Re: working kernel with sis900 support?

2005-04-29 Thread Alfred M. Szmidt
Yea, but the problem with having a patch is that some of us aren't quite sure how to apply the patch. Knowning how to apply patches is a good skill to learn. but is there any plan to apply the patch permanently so that the stock kernel used in the base package has support for sis900?

Re: working kernel with sis900 support?

2005-04-29 Thread Alfred M. Szmidt
I would like to have the sis900-enabled kernel, too ;-) Andreas B. Mundt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on the 28th of March sent a patch for SiS-900. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Partition sizes

2005-04-12 Thread Alfred M. Szmidt
> Since I already have Debian linux on, I used the cross-install > method, and an older install guide that said to limit my > partitions to 2GB. If it can recognize partitions greater than > 2GB, would resizing the partition (using resize_ext2fs) be > alright? Or should I just delete

Re: Linking problems

2005-04-11 Thread Alfred M. Szmidt
> There was a similar problem in the kfreebsd-i386 architecture and > it was solved by modifying binutils to honor /etc/ld.so.conf. Didn't Jeff fix this already? CC'ing Jeff to be sure he reads this... Adding support for ld.so.conf on Debian GNU/Hurd is not a fix. Infact, that patch

Re: (no subject)

2005-04-06 Thread Alfred M. Szmidt
You may want to try Ubuntu. www.ubuntulinux.org its free and I guess it could replace windows on your computer. That won't replace the windows in a wall though... (nor is Ubuntu free since it contains non-free software) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "uns

Re: (no subject)

2005-04-06 Thread Alfred M. Szmidt
I live in NY State and would like to know where I can get replacement windows. You have confused the Hurd with a company by a similar name, the Hurd Millwork Company. This mailing list is dedicated to a operating system called Debian GNU/Hurd (see http://hurd.gnu.org. http://www.gnu.org and

Re: Shared IRQ

2005-03-31 Thread Alfred M. Szmidt
If Mach has flaws that need to move the Hurd on L4, I'd rather work on this latter. And it's maybe too low-level for me, for the moment. If Mach has flaws then they should be fixed, not ignored just because we might in 10 years use L4. See it it as a learning experience to learn those l

Re: perl-modules lack some .pm on Hurd

2005-03-30 Thread Alfred M. Szmidt
> This kind of attitude isn't helpful. Yes, asking for help by giving information when it's asked should be punished. Reporting bugs and problems too. I suggest that you reread the message posted by Marc, it was a stupid attempt at flaming. And that kind of attitude is not helpful. --

Re: Shared IRQ

2005-03-30 Thread Alfred M. Szmidt
If I have understood correctly, the Hurd is, for the moment, unable to deal with shared IRQs. The Hurd is totally ignorant to IRQ sharing. It is a problem in GNU Mach, I don't think anyone has looked into the problem or even tried to fix it. Would you like to figure out what the problem is

Re: perl-modules lack some .pm on Hurd

2005-03-28 Thread Alfred M. Szmidt
This kind of attitude isn't helpful. Can you provide more information about the problem instead of trying to start a flamewar? Maybe your system is broken, have you experienced the behaviour you noted on other systems? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscrib

Re: heads up

2005-03-20 Thread Alfred M. Szmidt
Please, don't lecture me about the Hurd being perfect; it's not. Trust me, I won't lecture you about that, but I might lecture your about how unperfect it is. A friend at the AI lab once gave the following dream as an example of a well-functioning system: It all sounds like a Lisp Machi

Re: heads up

2005-03-20 Thread Alfred M. Szmidt
> *wink* how do you purpose to somehow get some kind of interactive > input from the user when you do a file-system call? This is a shortcoming in the design of the Hurd (gasp!). I think you mean that it is a shortcoming in the design of things that are not or cannot be interactive, file

Re: heads up

2005-03-20 Thread Alfred M. Szmidt
Keep track of the conversation. You were supposed to be saying that the Hurd cannot get Debian to agree to /usr->/ for the Hurd, and you're wrong. Why switch to getting rid of the symlink? Because *we didn't have shadowfs*. How many times must I explain the same point? Bogus, the

Re: heads up

2005-03-20 Thread Alfred M. Szmidt
Why change back? Because it's better that way. My sentence was unclear, what I meant was why change from /usr -> / (which has been long in use) and then back again to /usr -> / when the plan has always been to have that symlink or atleast have a translator sitting there. Removing the symlink

Re: heads up

2005-03-20 Thread Alfred M. Szmidt
And as I said, we need shadow translators. Once we have them, we could create /usr->/ with little fuss. We already have a read-only (write support is flakey) implementation of unionfs. But why change _back_ to /usr -> / when that was used for years? Let's change this around. What prob

Re: heads up

2005-03-19 Thread Alfred M. Szmidt
It would be easy to change /usr; we would need to have shadow translators, make existing packages install (which is trivial with the /usr->/ symlink), and so forth. We don't have a /usr -> / symlink anymore. It is optional, and the default is to create a seperate /usr directory, and only

Re: Question about NAT on Debian GNU/Hurd

2005-03-19 Thread Alfred M. Szmidt
Is somebody working in this? No. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: heads up

2005-03-19 Thread Alfred M. Szmidt
I see no reason to think that Debian GNU/Hurd cant do all of these. /usr is now by default a seperate directory I think, people bitch about obviously compliant FHS directories. These are small things compared to using translators for /share/info or redesigning the deb format to be nicer for tr

Re: heads up

2005-03-19 Thread Alfred M. Szmidt
In fact, I find it to be quite destructive. And I find you spreading lies about what I support or don't support far more destructive. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: heads up

2005-03-19 Thread Alfred M. Szmidt
> There are two or three people actually involved in making the GNU > system. And you are not included in that list sadly. :-) Wow! GNU System is done by two/three people only. Great... Could you name those two or three people? Me, Gianluca and Stallman. When I say "the GNU system

Re: heads up

2005-03-19 Thread Alfred M. Szmidt
Alfred, can you show the document that their plan is now making "Debian GNU/Linux"? I dislike these kind of silly questions since they serve no point. Ask a DD or the DPL if the point of Debian is to create Debian GNU/Hurd or Debian GNU/Linux. Look around www.debian.org. Let's try again

Re: heads up

2005-03-19 Thread Alfred M. Szmidt
I was still wanting clarification of this comment of yours. 'I also know that you cannot mean the GNU system, since "we" consists of less people then there are people hacking on the Hurd right now.' There are two or three people actually involved in making the GNU system. And you are

Re: heads up

2005-03-19 Thread Alfred M. Szmidt
> Debian GNU/Hurd is about playing with Hurd politics. The same could be said for you. You won't find people helping you on the GNU system just by bashing Debian and claiming it does not care. Get of your high horse, for one I'm not looking for help, second I haven't bashed anything,

Re: heads up

2005-03-19 Thread Alfred M. Szmidt
>Those people who are hacking the GNU Hurd and not playing Hurd >politics. > > Then you can't mean Debian GNU/Hurd. ? Debian GNU/Hurd is about playing with Hurd politics. Other Debian GNU/Linux people defend their Linux position and start a debate. This is to be

Re: heads up

2005-03-18 Thread Alfred M. Szmidt
>There is a major difference between the GNU/Hurd and all the >Linux and BSD ports. We are creating a new os. > > I fail to see who exactly is creating a new OS. Those people who are hacking the GNU Hurd and not playing Hurd politics. Then you can't mean Debian GNU/Hurd

Re: FHS compliance

2005-03-18 Thread Alfred M. Szmidt
This should put the whole stupid discussion to rest since the orignal poster is incapable of reading the actual standard in question. ,[ FHS 2.3 ] | Chapter 3. The Root Filesystem | | ... | Distributions should not create new directories in the root | hierarchy without extremely caref

Re: heads up

2005-03-18 Thread Alfred M. Szmidt
> Debian GNU/Hurd will always be Debian GNU/Linux+translators. It > will never use any of the nice things that the Hurd allows for Could you be more precise? I don't see the point... What are these nice things Debian GNU/Hurd won't use? Top of the head: managing configuration files u

Re: FHS compliance

2005-03-18 Thread Alfred M. Szmidt
> /lib is for libraries, and is on the linkers library search > path. It was a mistake for FHS to use it as broadly as it does, > because that slows down linking and makes filesystem arrangement > harder. If the current use of /lib in the FHS is a problem, have proposal been sent

Re: FHS compliance

2005-03-18 Thread Alfred M. Szmidt
> I think I can speak for all who care about the Hurd here, be it > within Debian or not: We will NOT change /hurd to be somewhere > else. OK. If you have decided to be stubborn, just don't try to argue that /hurd is FHS compliant. Just say you don't care about it. We have decided

Re: FHS compliance

2005-03-18 Thread Alfred M. Szmidt
As not being mentioned in it, /hurd might be considered not compliant to the FHS. It is FHS compliant. First, even if it is not the prefered solution, nothing prevents a distributor from adding things in / that are not explicitly described in the FHS. It is the prefered

Re: FHS compliance

2005-03-18 Thread Alfred M. Szmidt
> Is it *REALLY* that important if there are two extra directories > on GNU/Hurd? It would just be very comfortable to newcomers in Hurd if things were in standard places they have already learned about. They are in standard places, /hurd and /servers. You obviously don't get it do y

Re: heads up

2005-03-18 Thread Alfred M. Szmidt
> Debian is not interested in creating a new operating system. ^^ Quoting http://debian.org/intro/about: ``The Debian Project is an association of individuals who have made common cause to create a free operating system

Re: heads up

2005-03-18 Thread Alfred M. Szmidt
My concern is moving away from Debian. I would like to stay w/ Debian. Why do you have this concern? Setting up a repository outside and external to Debian seems to warrant an entirely new project name, not Debian GNU/Hurd. I would not care to contribute to such a project at this time

Re: heads up

2005-03-17 Thread Alfred M. Szmidt
You didn't know that people start hacking on the Hurd because you are such a cutie pie? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: heads up

2005-03-17 Thread Alfred M. Szmidt
How about attracting new developers, porting packages, having something useful to work with for Hurd developers, etc? That hasn't happened in the several years I have been around here. People start hacking on the Hurd for other reasons. And you know that quite well... -- To UNSUBSCRIBE,

Re: heads up

2005-03-17 Thread Alfred M. Szmidt
While I agree with most of what you wrote, I don't think "progress" can be made within Debian, but what will happen is that things won't go broken. And that is a good thing. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: heads up

2005-03-16 Thread Alfred M. Szmidt
That might not be a bad thing anyway, but it would be more work and a change. The work needed would be minimal, and I doubt you would need any changes. There has always been a seperate archive where Debian GNU/Hurd has put hacks. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subje

Re: heads up

2005-03-16 Thread Alfred M. Szmidt
There is a major difference between the GNU/Hurd and all the Linux and BSD ports. We are creating a new os. I fail to see who exactly is creating a new OS. I know you cannot mean Debian GNU/Hurd, since it is a second class citizen within Debian and will _always_ be a second class citizen.

Re: FHS compliance

2005-03-16 Thread Alfred M. Szmidt
> [Hurd servers] are totally useles to have in PATH But /lib/hurd is not in PATH, and the Hurd servers would perfectly fit in there. No they would not, they are not libraries. Please stop discussing this issue. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscr

Re: heads up

2005-03-16 Thread Alfred M. Szmidt
So what we need then are bug fixes. :) What are the crashes? I saw messages about crashing during libc, but the talk was all about how to reconfigure libc so it wouldn't crash when compiling...though we shouldn't crash even for bogus compiles. The crash happened since when compiling l

Re: heads up

2005-03-16 Thread Alfred M. Szmidt
We do? Guillem and Michael are active DDs. Who else? Thomas is I think. What about Marcus and Neal, are they both DDs? Please don't count me to "we" if you just mean Debian. The following people come to my mind: Thomas, Marcus, Michael, Jeff, Roland (I think), Guillem, Neal (I think).

Re: heads up

2005-03-16 Thread Alfred M. Szmidt
You really need to lighten up! (a proper response might have been along the lines "Alfred, what have you done lateley huh? When will you send those patches that you have in your tree?", etc.) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL

Re: heads up

2005-03-16 Thread Alfred M. Szmidt
>> "WE"??? Does that mean you are joining us again?? > > Hrm. I mean, let's see some code, some patches, some input man. We miss you.. :-) Where are your patches, Barry? Where is your code, Barry? Did you give any input lately, Barry? (and I agree about the missing bit...)

Re: heads up

2005-03-16 Thread Alfred M. Szmidt
2. the architecture must be able to run a buildd 24/7 sustained (without crashing) 3. the architecture must have an actual, running, working buildd This, I think needs to be our target. I think the "without crashing" is the only thing that needs the target. Just compiling gl

Re: FHS compliance

2005-03-16 Thread Alfred M. Szmidt
Look, you have obviously not done your homework about the FHS or the Hurd. So please get a clue about those two things before you bother with this bullshit again. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: FHS compliance

2005-03-16 Thread Alfred M. Szmidt
OK, would you mind explain me how it harms? I explained it already. They are totally useles to have in PATH since the only useful option you can pass to a translator is --help or --version. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAI

Re: FHS compliance

2005-03-16 Thread Alfred M. Szmidt
We are compliant with FHS. And even if we weren't we wouldn't change it anyway, since such stupdity shouldn't exist in a standard in the first palce. Standards are not rules that should be followed blindly nor can they contain all "oddities" that one might come up with. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, e

Re: FHS compliance

2005-03-16 Thread Alfred M. Szmidt
GNU/Linux has it modules in /lib/modules/$kernel-version, so why you do not the same for Hurd? They are _programs_, not libraries. I think I can speak for all who care about the Hurd here, be it within Debian or not: We will NOT change /hurd to be somewhere else. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, emai

Re: FHS compliance

2005-03-16 Thread Alfred M. Szmidt
Translators are in that directory, you cannot start them (in most cases) by just typing /hurd/TRANSLATOR. The only useles options to them is --help/--version. Hence, they do not belong in /sbin or /bin. s/useles/useful/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of

Re: FHS compliance

2005-03-16 Thread Alfred M. Szmidt
> What the FHS calls "binaries" are only some executables on the > Hurd; we have other executables that don't work like FHS > "binaries", gotcha? Sincerely, I'm not sure I see why it is needed to make a difference. I may ask the question from a different point of view: does it ha

Re: FHS compliance

2005-03-16 Thread Alfred M. Szmidt
But they are binaries that make the system work, so they would fit in /sbin: This is a useless way of arguing, ld.so.1 is a "binary that make the system work", so is libc.so, and all files in /lib. As I don't have (yet) a working Hurd system on one of my machines, could someone list m

Re: FHS compliance

2005-03-16 Thread Alfred M. Szmidt
Why don't Hurd servers are in /sbin or /usr/sbin? Because they don't belong there. /hurd is infact FHS compliant, nothing prohibits a system distributor of introducing a new directory in /. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAI

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