(=counterintuitive) things and
so on...
Hochachtungsvoll,
Bernhard R. Link
[1] for example the key to make it finaly do something
--
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notice saying this License applies
|to the Document are reproduced in all copies, and that you add no other
|conditions whatsoever to those of this License.
Hochachtungsvoll,
Bernhard R. Link
[1] As this specific info page is not yet in a package, though I do not
doubt there will be s
s-ja: groff_tmac.5.gz groff.7.gz roff.7.gz
Martin Waitz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
oidentd: oidentd.conf.5.gz oidentd_masq.conf.5.gz oidentd.8.gz
Sergio Rua <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
partimage: partimage.1.gz
partimage-server: partimaged.8.gz partimagedusers.5.gz
Hochachtungsvoll,
Bernhard R. Link
rver, importing from other repositories, checking and
generating signatures, ...)
Hochachtungsvoll,
Bernhard R. Link
alls for flamewars when a release might be near is really
no way to get it this year...)
Bernhard R. Link
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ddies will have
to wait until they get their scripts and I doubt wait for the
annoucement of the vulnerability.
Hochachtungsvoll,
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are not called debconf communication at fds 3 and 4. (and put
/dev/null in stdin and something else to avoi things reading from it)
This way only buggy daemons would cause problems. (and beside fd_stop,
just give them 3>/dev/null to work around)
Hochachtungsvoll,
Bernhard R. Link
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g panic while trying this experiment).
Hochachtungsvoll,
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(Like noexec could be circumvented
by calling ld.so directly, nosuid by perl-suid and so on, and there might
always be some other program sleeping somewhere waiting for its chance)
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with a subject of "unsu
t;warez wrapper".
emulators, game engines and other stuff not usefull without something to
act on has always been placed in contrib when there was no free stuff available
for them. History has always been: "Write something free for it, then
it is main; if you don't then it is
ome types of software do not count as
software?
Bernhard R. Link
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r distributions... you may not
> care but I want Debian to stay the central distribution and I don't want
> that other distributions do a better service to users than us.
Has there ever been a time when people did not tell Debian will die
instantly (or perhaps only next month) if we
, these
are different statements. But the context says it is about discussion
about "licensing for documentation" and the quotes around editorial
also give a direct hint about what is meant...
Hochachtungsvoll,
Bernhard R. Link
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it. (As it mostly is a
wrapper around latex&dvips and convert, tetex-bin or imagemagic would
be good candidates. Perhaps just ask their maintainers what they think
about it).
Hochachtungsvoll,
Bernhard R. Link
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an editor and a
ready supports a full, secure roll-back?
Hochachtungsvoll,
Bernhard R. Link
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e to distribute it, you don't need to mirror it all
> around the world.
Note that any such infrastructure things would only allow us to
distribute them, but not change our rules that such a thing cannot be in
Debian main. If there are such problems, more infrastructure can only
allow t
cially when the
install part was DESTDIRified, but the test before if the file is
already there (as make install does not want to overwrite a config file)
was forgotten.
This leads to a corrupt package when build on a system where the package
is already installed, i.e. is hidden away in any clean chroot.
* martin f krafft <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [060801 18:17]:
> also sprach Bernhard R. Link <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2006.08.01.1701 +0100]:
> > Missing $(DESTDIR)s in Makefiles are an example. Especially when the
> > install part was DESTDIRified, but the test before if the fi
.
One could think about something similar for versions as real
numbers, but a leading 0 would be too confusing (0.2 would be
larger then 0.09 but smaller than 0.19, or one would have to
add the zero everywhere causing versions to look different from
upstream)
Hochachtungsvoll,
Bernhard R. Lin
ff should be
as granular as possible, looking at the specific feature. And that is
exactly what autoconf does. (Which both is one of its biggest advantages
and also accounts for some of its disadvantages like the slowness).
Bernhard R. Link
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Sendmail is like emacs: A nice operating system, but
sn't around for so long before people started to think about
free software, I doubt it would have gotten its blessing.
So its good for main, but please still try to convice everyone involved
to drop it.
Hochachtungsvoll,
Bernhard R. Link
--
Sendmail is like emacs: A nice operating system,
still
make it available with IPv6...
Hochachtungsvoll,
Bernhard R. Link
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pe someone will still make it available with IPv6...
> IPv6 NAT is a very bad idea. What is the point of investing billions into IPv6
> transition if you reintroduced problems that it is supposed to fix (NAT) in
> the first place?
Well, if you have no other point than removing NAT, I'd rath
so note that Xt libs (Xt, Xaw, Xaw3d) sometimes have funny effects as the
order they are linked against can make a difference sometimes.
Hochachtungsvoll,
Bernhard R. Link
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for something pts like that
also allows upstream maintainers to hook in)
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east include some notice about the copyright
owners and licenses of the parts it is composed from, best with also
links to the source packages used. (And the one operating that gallery
ask a lawyer if more is needed)
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Bernhard R. Link
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> > ask a lawyer if more is needed)
>
> ofcourse ... uploading the screenshot, the user is agreeing with it.
The user is agreeing with what?
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be in production new, things that did not work
are annoying and sad, but only annoying and not hurting people
relying on a something advertised as stable keeping stable.
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at about "Debian Light Gnome Desktop"?
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bug
free state directly (some tools would not reject a explicitly invalid
version then, but we know all programs work with valid versions and no
other programs might cause problems when first hit by them) my
suggestion is to adapt policy to practice.
Hochachtungsvoll,
Bernhard R. Link
--
Sen
Policy also discourages versions not starting with a digit. But no tool
I have seen warns if it starts with a letter.
> What is the scope of the bug fixing required to bring the
> programs in line with long established policy?
Noone knows. That's the problem.
Hochachtungsvoll
ne edit in overrides
> (or so it has been communicated to me).
The inconsistency of policy was in my eyes to accept any of those
before, because there is a documented normal other way to do it.
Shall two errors force the general acceptance of it?
Hochachtungsvoll,
Bernhard R. Link
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* Bernhard R. Link <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [060424 18:14]:
> * Manoj Srivastava <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [060424 17:39]:
> >
> > > Package gnus, version x.y-z.dfsg.
> > > That way its clearly marked that gnus is modified to be dfsg free,
> > > and you don
eaned up in the .diff.gz (at least for the
stuff relevant stuff, no need to patch a build script for DOS)
If you in contrast choose to add or modify things in the .orig.tar.gz,
you are in this (perhaps a bit personally coloured) view no longer
making changes within Debian, but are creating a new
it would be less of an issue, if he did not insist of what
almost everyone else has agreed on and I never saw disputed is
"unethical".
Hochachtungsvoll,
Bernhard R. Link
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n having people think that changed stuff was
from me. (And having only a -dfsg there, be it before or after the
first dot will make people believe that)
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d doing unethical things,
just because all of you do the wrong and unethical thing, I won't
do it" repitition.
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, so I strongly prefer them in
the .diff.gz.
Hochachtungsvoll,
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petition, but I suggest noone to
fullfil it without additional reasons.
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l login).
So some absurd ftp server or something might compare it with /bin/false,
but then of course the second defense line of an disabled password hash
is still there.
Hochachtungsvoll,
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ady installed while building)
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s better to extend the workaround than to solve the problem.
> > There is a reason for having standardised interfaces. It is that they
> > can be implemented in different ways.
>
> Yes. The standardized interface is smtp.
The standard *NIX way to send mail is the sendmail symlink, t
section is wrong?
Hochachtungsvoll,
Bernhard R. Link
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o a snail level where a mere old HUB with several
dozen clients or a little 5 port switch had no problems at all.
(In that case using 100MBit cards helped, and I'd be suprised if the
the GB ports had exactly the same problem, but perhaps they get confused
some similar problem).
Hochachtungsvoll
wrong with:
run-mailcap --action=view application/vnd.ms-excel:this.xls
or shorter:
see application/vnd.ms-excel:this.xls
or even shorten (if its type can be detected automatically correctly and
one has no other information:)
see this.xls
(All available in the mime-support packages and alread
pto.so.0.9.7
| usr/lib/v8/libssl.so.0.9.7
| usr/lib/v9/libcrypto.so.0.9.7
| usr/lib/v9/libssl.so.0.9.7
| usr/share/doc/libssl0.9.7/changelog.Debian.gz
| usr/share/doc/libssl0.9.7/changelog.gz
| usr/share/doc/libssl0.9.7/copyright
In other words: Problem solved since sarge.
Hochachtungsvoll,
I get:
|$ ldd -r /usr/bin/ssh
| libresolv.so.2 => /lib/libresolv.so.2 (0x7002c000)
| libcrypto.so.0.9.7 => /usr/lib/v9/libcrypto.so.0.9.7 (0x7005)
| [...]
And I cannot remember having anything changed.
(Also the libcrypto 0.9.6 in your ldd output looks more like woody
than like sarge)
nt in within some absurd
short time making it inplausible the build was actually checked.
Something like a quarter of an hour, I'd suggest.
On a second thought, perhaps better half an hour and also checking the
.diff.gz was downloaded...
Hochachtungsvoll,
Bernhard R. Link
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age
has a maintainer looking after it" there should be proper testing
procedures. And when there are no proper testing procedures, at least
the procedures should be choosen to not discourage testing.
Hochachtungsvoll,
Bernhard R. Link
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se apt refuses to install
packages before the current situation is sane, which in turn needs to
install a package to make some other package's postinst happy...
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tion, as one would need to give a list of
packages to install to dpkg all at once or in the correct serialisation,
and no longer (with exception of configure cycles) beeing able to give
them in whatever sequence as one is pleased to do.
Hochachtungsvoll,
Bernhard R. Link
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ackage will seriously prevent him from
working so much on the unstable version, that this could become
"usable". So most packages would be either the same in frozen and
progressive or they would be same in progressive and unstable.
Hochachtungsvoll,
Bernhard R. Link
dvantages and less work).
> First things first. Let's get potato released,
As I wrote, nothing can be changed before.
Hochachtungsvoll,
Bernhard R. Link
reduce the
amount of space for the language-files as auomatically installing the
needed. (When good implemented it could also allow to add a new laguage
for all already installed packages).
But I did not get any result, so I centered my work on other projects.
Hochachtungsvoll,
Bernhard R. Link
e user to
change.
It's disadvantage would be the enourmous amount of time to recompile all
user-settings when the main-menu-database changes.
Hochachtungsvoll,
Bernhard R. Link
e programmer like me would need one and a
half week maximum for it. And so long would need any change in the
main-menu-database, because the menu-creater would not only to be run once
per wm but one per wm times one per user. (On an old 386 perhaps two and a
half week :-)
Hochachtungsvoll,
Bernhard R. Link
ome-dirs) and several system could
use the same /usr/share with different rules what to install, so that no
data is doubled but one system can remove a package and exacly that is
removed in /usr/share what was there becaus only this package needed it).
Hochachtungsvoll,
Bernhard R. Link
ere the confusion comes from.
It is this way. AX ist the low part of EAX (Since eax and ax shall
make the same for values less then 2^16.) And there is no direct way to
address to higher 16 Bits. But as a shr eax,16 need only one cycle it is
not that serious.
Hochachtungsvoll,
Bernhard R. Link
Yust to say: PLEASE do not make it binary. There may be many things to
speed up, but binary is evil in this situation. (Imagine a broken database
and you can do just nothing against it.)
Hochachtungsvoll,
Bernhard R. Link
efault?
I think the current standard is quite reasonable.
Perhaps a non-world-readability would please very bloody beginers,
but is would give the not so bloody beginers a false fealing of
security.
Hochachtungsvoll,
Bernhard R. Link
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with
ocumentation/licensing/licensing.html some parts
of kdenetwork are still licenced qpl. It may just need to recopy these
parts from an gpl'ed qt, but I do not know KDE or qt well enough.
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h it with
the debian diff, make an branch, patch the branch, and merge everything
together and produce an new diff and remove the local cvs-repro.
This is much quicker done than to check the new patch if it collides with
the other patches and change the other patches so that it does not
colli
hanges and makes the packaghe source itself much less useful than it
> could be.
I think aside of one diff or many diffs a list of patches done to the code
and where you got them from is a good thing to have in every package.
Hochachtungsvoll,
Bernhard R. Link
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In this situation there is little to do about the bug otherwise, than
closing the bug with a message, that this was fixed upstream and
this version was uploaded. And the mail generated when putting a
(closed:# ...) after a changelog entry describes this with nice
words and with much less chance to
coherent understandable system need rewrite
of masses of old
> A Debian-specific menu system is the entirely wrong way to go.
A working menu is a good way to go. The currest system works and has
many nice aspects of configurability and administrability, missing in
the newer parts. Only thing I see m
em. (Without the fear to have
phantom entries after the package is removed).
Hochachtungsvoll,
Bernhard R. Link
--
Sendmail is like emacs: A nice operating system, but missing
an editor and a MTA.
; The freedesktop standard is extremely configurable, using the .menu
> files. It was designed to be so.
It was designed to cope the needs of KDE and GNOME. These are well known
to favor single-user systems, pretend nothing outside their own exists and
in general be a nightmare to administrators.
Hochachtungsvoll,
Bernhard R. Link
--
Sendmail is like emacs: A nice operating system, but missing
an editor and a MTA.
along and needs to be shot. KDE obeys
> menu policy just fine (afaik)
fine? not having a debian menu at all but placing some wild items in its
own categories shall be fine? It's about as good as not implementing it
at all.
> PS - Next time try to learn about a system before showing you don't
> understand the issues at all.
Was this a memo for yourself or are you just trying to insult?
MfG,
Bernhard R. Link
--
Sendmail is like emacs: A nice operating system, but missing
an editor and a MTA.
ingle-user systems, pretend nothing outside their own exists and
> > in general be a nightmare to administrators.
>
> Ah, right. The "I can't think of a technical argument, so I'll just add
> in some uninformed flames at GNOME and KDE even though this argument
> i
ormat description for menu-files, that some new fashioned
wms are able to parse. And it might have good things like less work
to write menu-methods for those. But it is by no means something
resonable to base our menu-system on. (And as I tried to say before,
even the way to more directly recylcle
7;s law that this will never work when
you really need it.
Hochachtungsvoll,
Bernhard R. Link
--
Sendmail is like emacs: A nice operating system, but missing
an editor and a MTA.
the variant should be the main behaviour of the program explaining
the behaviour clearly enough.))
Hochachtungsvoll,
Bernhard R. Link
--
The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve
nor will he ever receive either. (Benjamin Franklin)
genous environment. (Though those people
shouting 'desktop' seem to try hard to get it worse).
262 distinct users here with 13 installations.
and in the near environment a pool with about 30-40 installations
and over 800 users. (And some smaller with about 20 installations
and 40 to 50
newbie before a computer
and look under what circumstances he is able to get something done,
if I want to get an indicator for usefulnes. And not showing screen-
shots to windows-users and looking if they sheer.)
Hochachtungsvoll,
Bernhard R. Link
--
Sendmail is like emacs: A nice operating system, but missing
an editor and a MTA.
y graphics beeing as usable
as something without graphics is even harder.
Hochachtungsvoll,
Bernhard R. Link
--
Sendmail is like emacs: A nice operating system, but missing
an editor and a MTA.
umentation, the
last is simply frustrating.
Hochachtungsvoll,
Bernhard R. Link
--
Sendmail is like emacs: A nice operating system, but missing
an editor and a MTA.
Discussing via emails seems to get hard again...
* Joey Hess <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [030725 16:37]:
> Bernhard R. Link wrote:
> > Both a system presenting a utter mess of uneeded things and technical
> > terms and a system only saying "Installation successful" or
&g
r thing is the ease to switch it off. I couldn't get
my sister using Knopix, as it's autoprobing for SCSI-hardware
froze the computer and the expert-mode was barely understandable
by me.
Hochachtungsvoll,
Bernhard R. Link
--
Sendmail is like emacs: A nice operating system, but missing
an editor and a MTA.
ctionality, an MTA is required, hence a dependency.
>
> What if the MTA is on a different host? Can't mutt speak SMTP?
If mutt spoke SMTP, it would be a MTA itself. (Perhaps still missing
the proper interface to link /usr/lib/sendmail to mutt, but that would
be the lesser par
* Steve Lamb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [030806 13:43]:
> On Wed, 6 Aug 2003 13:10:03 +0200
> "Bernhard R. Link" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > If mutt spoke SMTP, it would be a MTA itself. (Perhaps still missing
> > the proper interface to link /usr/lib/sendmail t
* Emile van Bergen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [030806 17:04]:
> On Wed, Aug 06, 2003 at 03:03:07PM +0200, Bernhard R. Link wrote:
> > * Steve Lamb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [030806 13:43]:
> > > On Wed, 6 Aug 2003 13:10:03 +0200
> > > "Bernhard R. Link" <[EMA
e will start telling configuring the dns-server to
use is not a admin thing.
Hochachtungsvoll,
Bernhard R. Link
--
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nfigured backups or backups
with operations getting sad to fast...
Hochachtungsvoll,
Bernhard R. Link
--
They said: "Smile and be happy, it could become worse."
And I smiled and was happy. And it became worse.
kernels).
So your complain reduces in my eyes to an incomplete label.
I personally think not having the term "linux" in it more of
an issue than having "-debian" in it...
Hochachtungsvoll,
Bernhard R. Link
--
Sendmail is like emacs: A nice operating system, but missing
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ay to configure this to not create masses of processes and
confusing the user with colors?
Bernhard R. Link
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ble is at least an annoyance. The alternative is
to upload an alternative libcurl, duplicating the source code,
making it harder for everyone involved. So it is more than just
a avarage wishlist-bug where the maintainer's opinion is the last
word.
Hochachtungsvoll,
Bernhard R. Link
--
To U
splay fatal error messages followed by a light green "OK"
might be funny, I'd not like to see it on mine. While Suse's and Redhat's
failure does admittedly not mean it will also happen to Debian, it
still gives a hint about the likelyhood of success.
Hochachtungsvoll,
Be
a
third looks very ugly...
Additionally, I must have missed the announce on debian-devel for
your bug mass-filing.
Bernhard R. Link
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d on token first and adding .desktop files before
that only makes the situation worse in my eyes.
Thus I want to ask all involved parties to not ship .desktop files,
at least unless your window manager copes with .desktop files anyway.
Hochachtungsvoll,
Bernhard R. Link
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:-/
This is not really a larger problem, but just a problem in sudo.
Using getpwuid to get the home-directory is compareable to hard-coding
/root. (Hardcoding /root is even a bit cleaner, as it might not lure
people into using it when not working around bugs in sudo).
Hochachtungsvoll,
Bernhard R.
majority of
postscript files being generated non-editable forms. (As is assembler
files currently, or as C source code would be if almost everyone switched
to some other language with a compiler generating C code as intermediate
format.)
Hochachtungsvoll,
Bernhard R. Link
--
Sendmail is like emacs
n and stuff like that can all be implemented without having
to switch to source-only first and are all worth even if that never
comes.
Hochachtungsvoll,
Bernhard R. Link
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ne used with the new and the old
one and also with libraries not containing that fix?
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uables bugs about hard to spot bugs or broken
documentation. I think in the large picture he did more to improve
Debian than some maintainers only adding package after package to the
distribution.
Hochachtungsvoll,
Bernhard R. Link
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oad, I assume some ftp-master
or ftp-assistent looked at it and missed that, too. Is there a way to
find out who is letting this crap in our archive?
(What if the .orig.tar.gz was not only repacked but actually modified,
would everyone have notices?)
Disappointed,
Bernhard R. Link
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t in.
As it is not a policy rule broken, I fear less that noone has even
looked at the file. But the alternative of someone looking, realising this
mistake and just letting it in anyway is not very conforting either.
Hochachtungsvoll,
Bernhard R. Link
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ined to answer y every time they do
something, so will also answer y without reading the message when they
do something. (or to always do rm -f)
Switching to a bad default without adding a way to revert to a sane
default just means everyone will hate you.
Hochachtungsvoll,
Bernhard R. Lin
EBLASTER_CPPFLAGS intead of
GARBLEBLASTER_CFLAGS to avoid pusing the misnaming withing pkg-config
even further).
Hochachtungsvoll,
Bernhard R. Link
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gainst it getting installed.
A Recommends is by no way a lightweight "hey, you might like this, too".
Hochachtungsvoll,
Bernhard R. Link
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ou articulate why this middle ground is unaceptable,
> as you assert above?
My point is that a recommends is no middle ground. A recommends is just
a dependency that is not absolute. Thus limiting the negative effects
from extremly annoying to annoying.
A Suggests is a possible compromise, an
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