Quoting Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org):
> Sure, certainly true. But, assuming that we have a consensus that the
> distinction no longer matters and just causes extra work (something that
> I'm inclined to agree with but that I don't think we can assume we've
> decided on yet), I hate to see us do
❦ 8 août 2012 09:02 CEST, Christian PERRIER :
> I'm probably a bit old school here, but I think that the distinction
> between bin and sbin still makes sense. Maybe some binaries are
> misplaced (for instance, if ifconfig makes sense to be used as normal
> user, then it should be moved to /bin)
Hi,
> Moving ifconfig to /bin would break a lot of things calling
> `/sbin/ifconfig`.
there could be a link for compatiblity
Kind Regards,
Michael
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On Wed, Aug 08, 2012 at 09:02:13AM +0200, Christian PERRIER wrote:
> Isn't there something called FHS and which would be the thing to
> change first? Or aren't we sticking to the FHS anyway or just don't
> care?
If we keep /sbin as a symlink to /bin, and similarly for the other sbin
directories, w
On 08/08/2012 03:16 AM, Ulrich Dangel wrote:
> Currently the default PATH for Debian does not include /sbin, /usr/sbin, nor
> /usr/local/sbin. If an user wants to run a program in either /sbin/ or
> /usr/sbin
> the full path must be specified.
>
Or the user just adds those directories to $PATH in
On 08/08/2012 09:43 AM, Bernd Zeimetz wrote:
Experienced users should be able to do this easily. And those who don't
knwo what to do with the tools in */sbin/* probably don't want/need them
in $PATH.
I think the topic in here is good defaults for debian/"more common case"
no if debian/users a
On Mittwoch, 8. August 2012, Michael Stummvoll wrote:
> what exactly is the actually reason that a default normal user has ip in
> his PATH but not ifconfig (also route)?
hysteric raisins.
("ip a" convinced me to use ip instead of ifconfig: it's shorter to type.)
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On 08/08/2012 10:32 AM, Carlos Alberto Lopez Perez wrote:
> I think this is a great idea :)
>
> You can't imagine how much I blame Debian each time I have to type the
> full path "/sbin/ifconfig" as a non-root user on virtual servers to just
> know the IP address the DHCP server assigned to the mac
Hi,
On 08.08.2012 10:32, Holger Levsen wrote:
> On Mittwoch, 8. August 2012, Michael Stummvoll wrote:
>> what exactly is the actually reason that a default normal user has ip in
>> his PATH but not ifconfig (also route)?
>
> hysteric raisins.
historic, rather. ifconfig and route were around alr
On 08/08/2012 04:28 PM, Alberto Fuentes wrote:
> On 08/08/2012 09:43 AM, Bernd Zeimetz wrote:
>> Experienced users should be able to do this easily. And those who don't
>> knwo what to do with the tools in */sbin/* probably don't want/need them
>> in $PATH.
>
>
> I think the topic in here is good d
Hi,
On 08.08.2012 12:11, Thomas Goirand wrote:
> Start using the right tool for the job (I mean: "ip addr show"),
> and stop blaming Debian. Using ifconfig by the way will show
> you only part of the information (eg: if there's more than one
> IP assign, ifconfig will not show it).
ifconfig eth0
On Aug 08, Arno Töll wrote:
> historic, rather. ifconfig and route were around already when everyone
> insisted on the separation of /bin and /sbin. /bin/ip is slightly newer
> and supposed to replace ifconfig/route some day entirely.
Just for the records, iproute entirely replaced ifconfig/route
On Aug 08, Russ Allbery wrote:
> Sure, certainly true. But, assuming that we have a consensus that the
> distinction no longer matters and just causes extra work (something that
> I'm inclined to agree with but that I don't think we can assume we've
> decided on yet), I hate to see us doing the
On Wed, Aug 08, 2012 at 03:16:59AM +0200, Ulrich Dangel wrote:
> Currently the default PATH for Debian does not include /sbin, /usr/sbin, nor
> /usr/local/sbin. If an user wants to run a program in either /sbin/ or
> /usr/sbin
> the full path must be specified.
>
> Changing the default PATH for n
Thomas Goirand wrote:
[...]
> Exactly what do you need from sbin as a user?
I use stuff from sbin as user all the time. A quick glance at /sbin
shows these commands that I use on a regular basis:
blkid
fdisk
all the fscks
all the mkfss
hdparm
ifconfig (before this discussion I'd never even *heard
On 08/08/2012 12:14 PM, Thomas Goirand wrote:
On 08/08/2012 04:28 PM, Alberto Fuentes wrote:
On 08/08/2012 09:43 AM, Bernd Zeimetz wrote:
Experienced users should be able to do this easily. And those who don't
knwo what to do with the tools in */sbin/* probably don't want/need them
in $PATH.
> Marco d'Itri writes:
> On Aug 08, Arno Töll wrote:
>> ifconfig and route were around already when everyone insisted on the
>> separation of /bin and /sbin. /bin/ip is slightly newer and
>> supposed to replace ifconfig/route some day entirely.
> Just for the records, iproute entir
Ivan Shmakov writes:
> Curiously enough, ifconfig(8) shows RX/TX byte counts, and,
> somehow, I didn't manage to get a similar output from iproute.
> Any pointers? TIA.
$ ip -s link show lo
1: lo: mtu 16436 qdisc noqueue state UNKNOWN
link/loopback 00:00:00:00:00:00 brd 0
> Timo Juhani Lindfors writes:
> Ivan Shmakov writes:
>> Curiously enough, ifconfig(8) shows RX/TX byte counts, and, somehow,
>> I didn't manage to get a similar output from iproute. Any pointers?
>> TIA.
> $ ip -s link show lo
> 1: lo: mtu 16436 qdisc noqueue state UNKNOWN
>
David Given writes:
> Thomas Goirand wrote:
> [...]
>> Exactly what do you need from sbin as a user?
>
> I use stuff from sbin as user all the time. A quick glance at /sbin
> shows these commands that I use on a regular basis:
>
> blkid
> fdisk
> all the fscks
> all the mkfss
> hdparm
> ifconfig
On Wed, Aug 08, 2012 at 12:22:50PM +0200, Marco d'Itri wrote:
> On Aug 08, Arno Töll wrote:
> > historic, rather. ifconfig and route were around already when everyone
> > insisted on the separation of /bin and /sbin. /bin/ip is slightly newer
> > and supposed to replace ifconfig/route some day ent
On 08/08/2012 06:21 PM, David Given wrote:
> ifconfig (before this discussion I'd never even *heard* of ip)
>
This kind of remark make be say that probably, it'd be
nice to have ifconfig display a warning as this one:
"ifconfig is deprecated, please use ip instead"
Thomas
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Hello,
On Wed, 08 Aug 2012 19:26:27 +0800
Thomas Goirand wrote:
> This kind of remark make be say that probably, it'd be
> nice to have ifconfig display a warning as this one:
> "ifconfig is deprecated, please use ip instead"
It'd be terrible. Please don't even think of it, okay? Let people
de
On 08/08/2012 12:59 PM, Gergely Nagy wrote:
But, you know what those commands do, and I think we can agree, that
most - if not all - of them are quite close to being tools for the
admin, even if they don't necessarily require root. A 'regular' user on
a multi-user system will not likely need any
On Wed, Aug 08, 2012 at 01:30:54PM +0200, Andrew Shadura wrote:
> On Wed, 08 Aug 2012 19:26:27 +0800
> Thomas Goirand wrote:
>
> > This kind of remark make be say that probably, it'd be
> > nice to have ifconfig display a warning as this one:
>
> > "ifconfig is deprecated, please use ip instead"
Russ Allbery dixit:
>I don't see any point in doing this as opposed to just moving everything
>from sbin into bin and making sbin a symlink to bin.
Alone the pain to do so (and the complaints from traditionalists)
should be enough to not do that.
There’s also the “if I want to have a look at wha
Hello!
Andrew Shadura has written on Wednesday, 8 August, at 13:30:
>On Wed, 08 Aug 2012 19:26:27 +0800
>Thomas Goirand wrote:
>> This kind of remark make be say that probably, it'd be
>> nice to have ifconfig display a warning as this one:
>> "ifconfig is deprecated, please use ip instead
On 08/08/2012 08:07 PM, Andrej N. Gritsenko wrote:
> And BTW, ip command is harder to use and it rather should be in the
> category 'admin tool' than in the 'user tool'.
>
That's the 2nd time we have someone writing this in this thread.
However, ip is user accessible, while ifconfig isn't. So th
On 08/08/2012 07:16 PM, Adam Borowski wrote:
> 121 packages, too many to even think about getting rid of ifconfig in the
> short term...
>
I agree. However, proposing to put ifconfig in a user accessible way,
when it is in fact the wrong tool, is going backward, not forward.
Thomas
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To UNS
On 2012-08-08 13:38:36 +0200, Alberto Fuentes wrote:
> [extra non usuful comments]
> Those commands without root permissions are not dangerous. ifconfig seems
> the most obvious that a non expert would want to run. ipconfig/ifconfig eth0
> are easy to run/remember.
>
> ip addr show eth0 is not. ip
On Wed, 2012-08-08 at 12:22 +0200, Marco d'Itri wrote:
> On Aug 08, Arno Töll wrote:
>
> > historic, rather. ifconfig and route were around already when everyone
> > insisted on the separation of /bin and /sbin. /bin/ip is slightly newer
> > and supposed to replace ifconfig/route some day entirel
On 08/08/12 12:36, Adam Borowski wrote:
> Could you please tell me a single benefit from such a change? All I see are
> downsides. It would degrade tab completion and pollute the namespace.
Access to programs without the need to specify the full path. Not all programs
in
the sbin directories r
On Wed, Aug 08, 2012 at 03:20:11PM +0200, Ulrich Dangel wrote:
> Not just ifconfig, there is also route, iwconfig, blkid etc. And moving them
> to other directories and add symlinks from sbin/$PROG to bin/$PROG is error
> prone.
"Normal" users do not need to know or care about these tools. Only
a
On Wed, Aug 08, 2012 at 10:32:30AM +0200, Holger Levsen wrote:
> On Mittwoch, 8. August 2012, Michael Stummvoll wrote:
> > what exactly is the actually reason that a default normal user has ip in
> > his PATH but not ifconfig (also route)?
>
> hysteric raisins.
Funny expression :-)
> ("ip a" c
On 2012-08-08 14:38:44 +0100, Roger Leigh wrote:
> "Normal" users do not need to know or care about these tools.
For some of them, they do. "Normal" users don't need most programs
installed in /usr/bin, so let's split this directory? :)
> Only admins use them, or tools that set things up on behal
On 08/08/2012 09:11 PM, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> And ip is not standard (not present on every Linux systems), whereas
> I don't know any system without ifconfig.
>
Then, what do you use to list multiple IPs on a single interface?
ifconfig simply doesn't support it.
IMHO, if there's distros wit
On 08/08/2012 09:20 PM, Ulrich Dangel wrote:
> Not all programs in
> the sbin directories require root privileges.
>
Then they have nothing to do in sbin. I'm serious:
*please file a bug* !!! :)
> It is about providing good defaults for users.
>
Agreed. Which is why you should file a bug s
On 08/08/12 15:38, Roger Leigh wrote:
> The number of times I've wished e.g. blkid was in my path is... zero.
What about iwconfig, ifconfig, route, modinfo, iw, fsck, mkfs.*, fsck, … It is
not
just about one tool or
There are for examples two symlinks for lsmod to /bin/kmod (/sbin/lsmod and
/bin
On 2012-08-08 22:01:37 +0800, Thomas Goirand wrote:
> On 08/08/2012 09:11 PM, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> > And ip is not standard (not present on every Linux systems), whereas
> > I don't know any system without ifconfig.
>
> Then, what do you use to list multiple IPs on a single interface?
> ifconf
Hi,
On 08.08.2012 16:01, Thomas Goirand wrote:
> IMHO, if there's distros with ifconfig but not ip, then such distro
> doesn't deserve much attention. The standard *is* ip, it's a much
> more powerful tool that does all you need (you can't say the same
> thing with ifconfig).
If you do not use ip
On Wed, Aug 08, 2012 at 10:09:27PM +0800, Thomas Goirand wrote:
> On 08/08/2012 09:20 PM, Ulrich Dangel wrote:
> > Not all programs in
> > the sbin directories require root privileges.
> >
>
> Then they have nothing to do in sbin. I'm serious:
> *please file a bug* !!! :)
I think you're confla
Hello,
On Wed, 8 Aug 2012 12:40:42 +0100
Roger Leigh wrote:
> As a distribution we have to decide on a default, and that is ip.
> We took the effort to remove all use of ifconfig from ifupdown and
> other related tools for wheezy precisely to make it removable and
> optional, so that it can even
Hello!
Thomas Goirand has written on Wednesday, 8 August, at 22:01:
>On 08/08/2012 09:11 PM, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
>> And ip is not standard (not present on every Linux systems), whereas
>> I don't know any system without ifconfig.
>Then, what do you use to list multiple IPs on a single int
> ifconfig eth0 192.168.0.1 up
> ifconfig eth0:0 192.168.0.2 up
> ifconfig
>
> It does not list addresses you added with ip without adding a
> sub-interface, however. With respect to visibility, one might wonder
> if doing that that is a good idea after all.
>
There are serval ways:
- Some users
On Wed, Aug 08, 2012 at 04:26:54PM +0200, Arno Töll wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On 08.08.2012 16:01, Thomas Goirand wrote:
> > IMHO, if there's distros with ifconfig but not ip, then such distro
> > doesn't deserve much attention. The standard *is* ip, it's a much
> > more powerful tool that does all you nee
On Wed, Aug 08, 2012 at 05:56:57PM +0300, Andrej N. Gritsenko wrote:
> Hello!
>
> Thomas Goirand has written on Wednesday, 8 August, at 22:01:
> >On 08/08/2012 09:11 PM, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> >> And ip is not standard (not present on every Linux systems), whereas
> >> I don't know any syst
* Dmitrijs Ledkovs , 2012-08-07, 22:47:
Does this include search across all components of standard $PATH
Yes, modulo bugs (see my other message in this thread).
and across all packages?
Yes, on i386 and amd64. If you check kfreebsd-* there's also this one:
ztest: zfsutils zutils
There mig
Lars Wirzenius writes:
> On Wed, Aug 08, 2012 at 09:02:13AM +0200, Christian PERRIER wrote:
>> Isn't there something called FHS and which would be the thing to change
>> first? Or aren't we sticking to the FHS anyway or just don't care?
> If we keep /sbin as a symlink to /bin, and similarly for
Alberto Fuentes writes:
> I think the topic in here is good defaults for debian/"more common case"
> no if debian/users are able to handle such changes. :)
> I also add sbin to path as one the first steps after installation and i
> think is a good thing.
Yes, likewise here. I've had sbin in my
Hello!
Ben Hutchings has written on Wednesday, 8 August, at 16:24:
>> >On 08/08/2012 09:11 PM, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
>> >IMHO, if there's distros with ifconfig but not ip, then such distro
>> >doesn't deserve much attention. The standard *is* ip, it's a much
>> >more powerful tool that does
Thorsten Glaser writes:
> There’s also the “if I want to have a look at what commands on the
> system are used for administering, I can just ls /sbin /usr/sbin”
> thing.
Have you done this recently?
I seriously doubt anyone is going to read through those 416 programs (on
my system; counts will
On Wed, Aug 08, 2012 at 07:29:58PM +0300, Andrej N. Gritsenko wrote:
> Hello!
>
> Ben Hutchings has written on Wednesday, 8 August, at 16:24:
> >> >On 08/08/2012 09:11 PM, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
>
> >> >IMHO, if there's distros with ifconfig but not ip, then such distro
> >> >doesn't deserve
On Wed, Aug 08, 2012 at 09:28:03AM -0700, Russ Allbery wrote:
> Yes, we could file bugs and go to the work of moving things and leaving
> symlinks behind to not break other things, but that's a lot of work. And
> it's ongoing work to keep things sorted into the right place. Whereas if
> we moved
On Wed, Aug 08, 2012 at 09:25:19AM -0700, Russ Allbery wrote:
> Also, FHS development seems to be effectively dead. We're already
> carrying a fairly large collection of exceptions. One more wouldn't make
> a tremendous difference as long as there's no major user behavior change,
> and the symlin
Lars Wirzenius writes:
> On Wed, Aug 08, 2012 at 09:25:19AM -0700, Russ Allbery wrote:
>> Also, FHS development seems to be effectively dead. We're already
>> carrying a fairly large collection of exceptions. One more wouldn't
>> make a tremendous difference as long as there's no major user beh
On Wed, Aug 08, 2012 at 12:22:50PM +0200, Marco d'Itri wrote:
> (Does anybody want to try removing net-tools and see what breaks?)
On my debian systems net-tools are removed, had to recompile openvpn
with ip support and run openswan from experimental without any problems
since 4 months.
Kind rega
❦ 8 août 2012 09:15 CEST, Michael Stummvoll :
>> Moving ifconfig to /bin would break a lot of things calling
>> `/sbin/ifconfig`.
>
> there could be a link for compatiblity
If we start symlinking, a symlink from /sbin to /bin seems easier. Once
we start a breach, we'll get more and more reques
❦ 8 août 2012 09:43 CEST, Bernd Zeimetz :
>> Currently the default PATH for Debian does not include /sbin, /usr/sbin, nor
>> /usr/local/sbin. If an user wants to run a program in either /sbin/ or
>> /usr/sbin
>> the full path must be specified.
>>
>
> Or the user just adds those directories to
❦ 8 août 2012 16:56 CEST, "Andrej N. Gritsenko" :
>>Then, what do you use to list multiple IPs on a single interface?
>>ifconfig simply doesn't support it.
>
> In fact, I have multiple IPs on a single interface right now on the
> machine where I write this letter. And I never used 'ip' befo
❦ 8 août 2012 12:21 CEST, David Given :
> ifconfig (before this discussion I'd never even *heard* of ip)
All what is inside "net-tools" package is old and hardly maintained.
"arp" can be replaced by "ip neigh", "ifconfig" by "ip addr" or "ip link",
"route" by
"ip route", "ipmaddr" by "ip mad
Hello,
On Wed, 08 Aug 2012 19:44:25 +0200
Vincent Bernat wrote:
> "arp" can be replaced by "ip neigh", "ifconfig" by "ip addr" or "ip
> link", "route" by "ip route", "ipmaddr" by "ip maddr", "mii-tool" by
> "ethtool", "netstat" by "ss", "nameif" by "ip link", "iptunnel" by
> "ip tunnel". "iprout
On 08/08/2012 10:10 PM, Ulrich Dangel wrote:
> Many things are trivial but I think it would be best to ship good defaults in
> Debian. And have all programs available for tab completion without the need to
> specify sudo in front is in my opinion a good default.
>
> There is also a question how to
❦ 8 août 2012 19:54 CEST, Andrew Shadura :
>> "arp" can be replaced by "ip neigh", "ifconfig" by "ip addr" or "ip
>> link", "route" by "ip route", "ipmaddr" by "ip maddr", "mii-tool" by
>> "ethtool", "netstat" by "ss", "nameif" by "ip link", "iptunnel" by
>> "ip tunnel". "iproute" and "ethtool"
On Wed, Aug 08, 2012 at 07:54:59PM +0200, Andrew Shadura wrote:
> Hello,
>
> On Wed, 08 Aug 2012 19:44:25 +0200
> Vincent Bernat wrote:
>
> > "arp" can be replaced by "ip neigh", "ifconfig" by "ip addr" or "ip
> > link", "route" by "ip route", "ipmaddr" by "ip maddr", "mii-tool" by
> > "ethtool"
Hi,
On 08.08.2012 17:53, Jakub Wilk wrote:
> ztest: zfsutils zutils
Hum, thanks for spotting that, but what to do here? Both packages
legitimately ship a ztest. Admittedly it is not very important for
zfsutils, don't know about zutils. Having that said, lots of upstream
tutorials and documentatio
On Wed, Aug 08, 2012 at 07:54:59PM +0200, Andrew Shadura wrote:
> On Wed, 08 Aug 2012 19:44:25 +0200
> Vincent Bernat wrote:
> > "arp" can be replaced by "ip neigh", "ifconfig" by "ip addr" or "ip
> > link", "route" by "ip route", "ipmaddr" by "ip maddr", "mii-tool" by
> > "ethtool", "netstat" by
On Wed, 2012-08-08 at 19:08, Harald Jenny wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 08, 2012 at 12:22:50PM +0200, Marco d'Itri wrote:
> > (Does anybody want to try removing net-tools and see what breaks?)
> On my debian systems net-tools are removed, had to recompile openvpn
> with ip support and run openswan from expe
On Wed, 8 Aug 2012, Andrew Shadura wrote:
On Wed, 08 Aug 2012 19:44:25 +0200
Vincent Bernat wrote:
"arp" can be replaced by "ip neigh", "ifconfig" by "ip addr" or "ip
link", "route" by "ip route", "ipmaddr" by "ip maddr", "mii-tool" by
"ethtool", "netstat" by "ss", "nameif" by "ip link", "iptu
On Wed, Aug 08, 2012 at 10:08:24PM +0200, Milan P. Stanic wrote:
> On Wed, 2012-08-08 at 19:08, Harald Jenny wrote:
> > On Wed, Aug 08, 2012 at 12:22:50PM +0200, Marco d'Itri wrote:
> > > (Does anybody want to try removing net-tools and see what breaks?)
> > On my debian systems net-tools are remov
Na grupie linux.debian.devel napisałe(a)ś:
>> There might be even more if you assume that you can co-install Linux an=
> d
>> kFreeBSD binaries (yay, multi-arch world!).
> They might be co-installable but not executable (for the time being).
> The Linux emulation layer which is featured by kFreeBS
On Wed, Aug 08, 2012 at 10:22:03AM -0700, Russ Allbery wrote:
> Lars Wirzenius writes:
> > On Wed, Aug 08, 2012 at 09:25:19AM -0700, Russ Allbery wrote:
> >> Also, FHS development seems to be effectively dead. We're already
> >> carrying a fairly large collection of exceptions. One more wouldn'
On 2012-08-08 22:09:27 +0800, Thomas Goirand wrote:
> What would be the point, for example, to have these
> accessible to the user:
> - depmod/insmod/etc.
> - swapon/swapoff
> - agetty
> - init
> - etc.
One (perhaps minor) point would be to get basic documentation, e.g.
depmod --help
There is
On Wed, 2012-08-08 at 22:18, Harald Jenny wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 08, 2012 at 10:08:24PM +0200, Milan P. Stanic wrote:
> > On Wed, 2012-08-08 at 19:08, Harald Jenny wrote:
> > > On Wed, Aug 08, 2012 at 12:22:50PM +0200, Marco d'Itri wrote:
> > > > (Does anybody want to try removing net-tools and see w
On Wed, Aug 08, 2012 at 05:48:35PM +0100, Roger Leigh wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 08, 2012 at 09:28:03AM -0700, Russ Allbery wrote:
> > Yes, we could file bugs and go to the work of moving things and leaving
> > symlinks behind to not break other things, but that's a lot of work. And
> > it's ongoing wor
On Wed, Aug 08, 2012 at 01:53:24PM -0700, Steve Langasek wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 08, 2012 at 10:22:03AM -0700, Russ Allbery wrote:
> > Lars Wirzenius writes:
> > > On Wed, Aug 08, 2012 at 09:25:19AM -0700, Russ Allbery wrote:
> > >> Also, FHS development seems to be effectively dead. We're already
On Wed, 2012-08-08 at 22:21 +0200, Jarek Kamiński wrote:
> Na grupie linux.debian.devel napisałe(a)ś:
> >> There might be even more if you assume that you can co-install Linux an=
> > d
> >> kFreeBSD binaries (yay, multi-arch world!).
>
> > They might be co-installable but not executable (for the
Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Ritesh Raj Sarraf
* Package name: system-storage-manager
Version : 0.2
Upstream Author : Lukas Czerner
* URL : https://sourceforge.net/p/storagemanager/home/
* License : GPL-2+
Programming Lang: Python
Description
On 08/08/12 12:30, Thomas Goirand wrote:
> On 08/08/2012 06:21 PM, David Given wrote:
>> ifconfig (before this discussion I'd never even *heard* of ip)
>>
> This kind of remark make be say that probably, it'd be
> nice to have ifconfig display a warning as this one:
>
> "ifconfig is deprecated,
Le Wed, Aug 08, 2012 at 09:28:03AM -0700, Russ Allbery a écrit :
>
> Yes, we could file bugs and go to the work of moving things and leaving
> symlinks behind to not break other things, but that's a lot of work. And
> it's ongoing work to keep things sorted into the right place. Whereas if
> we
On Wed, Aug 08, 2012 at 01:53:24PM -0700, Steve Langasek wrote:
> The FHS and the guarantees it provides about what users can
> expect from their system is still important. If Debian thinks we need to
> diverge from the FHS on something as major as the existence of /sbin, that's
> a conversation w
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