Re: Debian desktop -situation, proposals for discussion and change. Users point of view.

On Thu, May 17, 2007 at 08:20:50AM +0200, Mgr. Peter Tuharsky wrote: > Steve, > > >And as others have pointed out, the purpose of stable is to minimize > >disruptions. For many users, living with known bugs with known workarounds > >is a *lot* better than identifying new bugs. > > Yeas. Let the c

Re: Debian desktop -situation, proposals for discussion and change. Users point of view.

Steve, I see main problem with testing that broad platform changes are going there. That's why things break sometimes there. That's why I think, that the Stable platform with new desktop software might be the choice -the new software versions with no platform dependecies breakage risk. Th

Re: Debian desktop -situation, proposals for discussion and change. Users point of view.

Stanislav, I see Your point, however this is far from "user-friendliness". First solution -use other distro. Wow, what a great idea. Looking at statistics and Linux users in neighborhood, You can be _sure_ they discovered that way already :-) Be also sure, that unwilling to do more for desk

Re: Debian desktop -situation, proposals for discussion and change. Users point of view.

On Thu, 17 May 2007, Mgr. Peter Tuharsky wrote: > This is closest to "backports" and "volatile" idea. I wouldn't call > it "backports" however, because that reminds porting some very new > software to some very old platform, and this is not the case. The > stable's basic platform should stay LSB-co

Re: Debian desktop -situation, proposals for discussion and change. Users point of view.

"Mgr. Peter Tuharsky" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Yeas. Let the choice to the user. Don't dictate him. Whoever wants > to use the old software w/o change, let be it. Whoever wants the new > one, noticed about the risks, let's give him an official and > supported way to do it. The user has that

Re: Debian desktop -situation, proposals for discussion and change. Users point of view.

On Thu, May 17, 2007 at 09:12:18AM +0200, Mgr. Peter Tuharsky wrote: > Steve, > > > I see main problem with testing that broad platform changes are going > there. That's why things break sometimes there. > > That's why I think, that the Stable platform with new desktop software > might be the

Re: Debian desktop -situation, proposals for discussion and change. Users point of view.

On Thu, May 17, 2007 at 09:20:48AM +0200, Mgr. Peter Tuharsky wrote: > Stanislav, > > > I see Your point, however this is far from "user-friendliness". > > First solution -use other distro. Wow, what a great idea. Looking at > statistics and Linux users in neighborhood, You can be _sure_ they

Re: svn-buildpackage etc., mergeWithUpstream, and dpatch/quilt/cdbs again

tjena magnus, just a quick anecdotal experience to throw into the thread... for all its strengths and weaknesses, i'm pretty happy with svn-buildpackage, mergeWithUpstream, and a debian/patches dir. for a long time my biggest issue with this was having to maintain these patches across upstream c

Re: Debian desktop -situation, proposals for discussion and change. Users point of view.

Hi, Don recent? current? upstream? fresh? :-) Why the need for volatile then? I admire I'm confused a bit. Whatever, there should be one supported, official, and acknowledged repository for the purpose, I think. Not necessarry ALL desktop software should be upgraded this way, however at least

Re: Debian desktop -situation, proposals for discussion and change. Users point of view.

Ben, this is the most constructive advice on the topic I think :-) Thank You. Peter The user has that choice, to the extent that can be reasonably expected. Consider: The Debian project is run by volunteers: all the work done is done because someone sees value to themselves in doing it. T

Re: Debian desktop -situation, proposals for discussion and change. Users point of view.

Am Mittwoch 16 Mai 2007 17:17 schrieb Steve Greenland: > On 16-May-07, 06:24 (CDT), "Mgr. Peter Tuharsky" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > It's been in context, meant as "many of those problems" -a relative part > > of problems, not absolute number of them. > > > > No, it's not worth the time. It's a

Reasons for recommends and suggests

Hi, what I am really missing in the current dependency scheme is WHY some packages define Recommends and Suggests on specific other packages. My problem with the current situation that you either do the policy of always installing such stuff or you don't. There is no way to decide case by case

Re: Debian desktop -situation, proposals for discussion and change. Users point of view.

Don, Volatile is for software which is known to be time critical, like virus and spam catching rules. Almost all Debian initiatives start as unofficial measures to demonstrate their efficacy. Eventually if they work and there is sufficient demand for them, they become official. Okay. It

Re: Reasons for recommends and suggests

On Thursday 17 May 2007 11:29, Hendrik Sattler wrote: > If I file bugs about them, which severity can this be given? I'd say wishlist. pgpQSnFwAHNE1.pgp Description: PGP signature

Re: Reasons for recommends and suggests

On Thu, May 17, 2007 at 11:29:16AM +0200, Hendrik Sattler wrote: > Hi, > > what I am really missing in the current dependency scheme is WHY some > packages > define Recommends and Suggests on specific other packages. > > My problem with the current situation that you either do the policy of alw

Re: Debian desktop -situation, proposals for discussion and change. Users point of view.

On Thu, May 17, 2007 at 11:37:29AM +0200, Mgr. Peter Tuharsky wrote: > Just waving your hands and > >saing that "not much additional work should be necessary" isn't good > >enough. > Right. Are there any real movements to synchronise Debian's cycle with > LSB's one slightly? No. Nor, IMHO, sho

Bug#424842: ITP: docbook2odf -- XSLT based conversions from docbook to Oasis Open Document (openoffice.org)

Package: wnpp Severity: wishlist Owner: Alexander Wirt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> * Package name: docbook2odf Version : 0.211 Upstream Author : Roman Fordinal * URL : http://open.comsultia.com/docbook2odf/ * License : GPL Programming Lang: Perl Description : XS

Re: Debian desktop -situation, proposals for discussion and change. Users point of view.

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Mgr. Peter Tuharsky escribió: > Stanislav, > > > I see Your point, however this is far from "user-friendliness". > > First solution -use other distro. Wow, what a great idea. Looking at > statistics and Linux users in neighborhood, You can be _sure_

Re: svn-buildpackage etc., mergeWithUpstream, and dpatch/quilt/cdbs again

On Wednesday 16 May 2007 14:52, Marcus Better wrote: > Magnus Holmgren wrote: > > Now, how do you combine these? Several people have thought: "The VCS > > can handle the changesets. Putting patches under VCS is silly!" > > I fully agree. Unfortunately Subversion doesn't make it easy for you. You >

Re: Debian desktop -situation, proposals for discussion and change. Users point of view.

Hi, Jose What about maintainer/developer-friendly thing? That'd be great. I think, the more recent is the supported software, and the more LSB-compliant is the base, the less extraordinary work for developers and less concern for end users. This dosen't conflict with either philosophy her

Bug#424844: ITP: ircservices -- Nick/channel/other services for IRC networks

Package: wnpp Severity: wishlist Owner: Tim Retout <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> * Package name: ircservices Version : 5.1pre1 Upstream Author : Andrew Church <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> * URL : http://www.ircservices.za.net/ * License : GPLv2 Programming Lang: C Description

Re: Building packages twice in a row

On Wed, May 16, 2007 at 06:51:24PM +0100, Roger Leigh wrote: > Please could you file a wishlist bug, so I don't forget about it? Done: #424846. Cheers. -- Stefano Zacchiroli -*- PhD in Computer Science ... now what? [EMAIL PROTECTED],debian.org,bononia.it} -%- http://www.bononia.it/

Re: Bug#424844: ITP: ircservices -- Nick/channel/other services for IRC networks

On Thu, May 17, 2007 at 11:59:41AM +0100, Tim Retout wrote: > Package: wnpp > Severity: wishlist > Owner: Tim Retout <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > * Package name: ircservices > Version : 5.1pre1 > Upstream Author : Andrew Church <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > * URL : http://www.irc

Re: Reasons for recommends and suggests

On Thu, May 17, 2007, Kevin Mark wrote: > What I thought about a while ago was this: > --- > Package: mutt > Suggests: ispell [adds spell cheking while composing emails] > Suggests: urlview [extracts urls from email and can lanuch a web browser] > Suggests: mixmaster [allows you to comp

Re: Bug#424844: ITP: ircservices -- Nick/channel/other services for IRC networks

On Thu, 2007-05-17 at 13:41 +0200, Kurt Roeckx wrote: > On Thu, May 17, 2007 at 11:59:41AM +0100, Tim Retout wrote: > > IRC Services is a system of services to be used with Internet Relay Chat > > networks. It provides for definitive nickname and channel ownership, as > > well as the ability to

Re: Bug#424844: ITP: ircservices -- Nick/channel/other services for IRC networks

On Thu, May 17, 2007 at 01:04:21PM +0100, Tim Retout wrote: > On Thu, 2007-05-17 at 13:41 +0200, Kurt Roeckx wrote: > Several, according to the table at: > http://www.ircservices.za.net/download/testing/docs/2.html#1 > > I've tested with ircd-hybrid, but it should also do ircd-ircu and > ircd-irc2

Re: svn-buildpackage etc., mergeWithUpstream, and dpatch/quilt/cdbs again

Le jeudi 17 mai 2007 à 13:12 +0200, Magnus Holmgren a écrit : > On Wednesday 16 May 2007 14:52, Marcus Better wrote: > > Magnus Holmgren wrote: > > > Now, how do you combine these? Several people have thought: "The VCS > > > can handle the changesets. Putting patches under VCS is silly!" > > > > I

Re: Bug#424844: ITP: ircservices -- Nick/channel/other services for IRC networks

Tim Retout writes: > On Thu, 2007-05-17 at 13:41 +0200, Kurt Roeckx wrote: >> On Thu, May 17, 2007 at 11:59:41AM +0100, Tim Retout wrote: > >> > IRC Services is a system of services to be used with Internet Relay Chat >> > networks. It provides for definitive nickname and channel ownership, as >

Re: Bug#424844: ITP: ircservices -- Nick/channel/other services for IRC networks

On Thu, 2007-05-17 at 14:25 +0200, Kurt Roeckx wrote: > On Thu, May 17, 2007 at 01:04:21PM +0100, Tim Retout wrote: > > On Thu, 2007-05-17 at 13:41 +0200, Kurt Roeckx wrote: > > Several, according to the table at: > > http://www.ircservices.za.net/download/testing/docs/2.html#1 > > > > I've tested

Re: Debian desktop -situation, proposals for discussion and change. Users point of view.

On Thu, May 17, 2007 at 07:56:57AM +0200, Mgr. Peter Tuharsky wrote: > Yes, I have written it there too. Kernel is, IMO, the best thing to > upgrade few times during release cycle, with quite little risk. Upgrading the kernel is quite high risk. Features come and go and change with each new kern

Re: Debian desktop -situation, proposals for discussion and change. Users point of view.

On Thu, 2007-05-17 at 07:56 +0200, Mgr. Peter Tuharsky wrote: > Michelle Konzack said: > > You forger that DOWNGRADING is officialy NOT SUPPORTED by Debian. > > That should be changed anyway, since security upgrades occasionally > break things too. You keep saying this, I haven't seen this in Sa

Re: Debian desktop -situation, proposals for discussion and change. Users point of view.

On Thu, May 17, 2007 at 08:10:21AM +0200, Mgr. Peter Tuharsky wrote: > Yes, and security upgrades never change behaviour of software and never > break things. That's the way it OUGHT to be. The reality has its own > turbulences. I don't remember security upgrades ever breaking anything in testin

Bug#424875: ITP: libical0 -- libical offers parsing of ical text data.

Package: wnpp Severity: wishlist Owner: Wilfried Goesgens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> * Package name: libical0 Version : 0.27.1 Upstream Author : Art Cancro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> * URL : http://freeasociation.sf.net * License : (LGPL/MPL Dual license) Programming Lang:

Re: Bug#424875: ITP: libical0 -- libical offers parsing of ical text data.

Hi I wanted to find out more about this library, but... On Thu, 17 May 2007 16:27:31 +0200 Wilfried Goesgens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Package: wnpp > Severity: wishlist > Owner: Wilfried Goesgens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > * Package name: libical0 > Version : 0.27.1 > Upstream

Re: Bug#424875: ITP: libical0 -- libical offers parsing of ical text data.

>> * URL : http://freeasociation.sf.net just a typo, there's a s missing: http://freeassociation.sf.net -- Bernd Zeimetz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [

Re: Bug#424875: ITP: libical0 -- libical offers parsing of ical text data.

typo: http://freeassociation.sourceforge.net/ two s's in association. Qui, 2007-05-17 às 17:03 +0200, Michal Čihař escreveu: > Hi > > I wanted to find out more about this library, but... > > On Thu, 17 May 2007 16:27:31 +0200 > Wilfried Goesgens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Package: wnpp

Bug#424880: ITP: libl2fprod-common-java -- additional Java components for modern user interfaces

Package: wnpp Severity: wishlist Owner: Torsten Werner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> * Package name: libl2fprod-common-java Version : 7.3+20070317 Upstream Author : L2FProd.com <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> * URL : http://common.l2fprod.com/ * License : Apache Programming Lang: J

Bug#424890: RFA: gkrellm -- The GNU Krell Monitors

Package: wnpp Hi, I am looking for someone who use it regularly to adopt this package. I have not used it for a long time. The package is in a good shape, and the upstream is pretty active. Cai Qian -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contac

Re: Reasons for recommends and suggests

On Thu, 17 May 2007 11:29:16 +0200 Hendrik Sattler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi, > > what I am really missing in the current dependency scheme is WHY some packages > define Recommends and Suggests on specific other packages. I use Recommends or Suggests when the package includes a variety of s

Bug#424893: ITP: cmigrep -- search in ocaml compiled interface files

Package: wnpp Severity: wishlist Owner: Ralf Treinen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> * Package name: cmigrep Version : 1.3 Upstream Author : Eric Stokes * URL : http://homepage.mac.com/letaris/ * License : GPL Programming Lang: OCaml Description : search in ocaml co

Re: Reasons for recommends and suggests

On Thu, May 17, 2007 11:58, Kevin Mark wrote: > Package: mutt > Suggests: ispell [adds spell cheking while composing emails] > Suggests: urlview [extracts urls from email and can lanuch a web browser] > Suggests: mixmaster [allows you to compose anonymized email] This seems like a useful idea to m

Re: Bug#424875: ITP: libical0 -- libical offers parsing of ical text data.

On Thu, 2007-05-17 at 16:27 +0200, Wilfried Goesgens wrote: > * Package name: libical0 Although I'm might not be up-to-date on the library naming scheme[0], I'm pretty sure a zero should go on the end of the binary package's name, only the source package, which is what is being asked for above

Re: Bug#364438: broken afer upgrade

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hey, this is a very old bug about an upgrade a year ago, no one confirms it, should I close it? Refer to http://bugs.debian.org/364438 for more info. Regards, Jose Luis. - -- ghostbar on Linux/Debian 'sid' i686 - #382503 Weblog: http://ghostbar.ath.

Re: Reasons for recommends and suggests

On Thu, 17 May 2007 19:53:07 +0200 (CEST) "Thijs Kinkhorst" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Thu, May 17, 2007 11:58, Kevin Mark wrote: > > Package: mutt > > Suggests: ispell [adds spell cheking while composing emails] > > Suggests: urlview [extracts urls from email and can lanuch a web browser] >

Re: Reasons for recommends and suggests

On Thu, May 17, 2007 at 07:43:09PM +0100, Neil Williams wrote: > Most users don't need to use the packages given as Recommends or > Suggests so the purpose, as I see it, is to help those who have unusual > or extended needs for the functions provided by the package. You are at odds with Policy wit

Re: svn-buildpackage etc., mergeWithUpstream, and dpatch/quilt/cdbs again

On Thursday 17 May 2007 05:12:52 Magnus Holmgren wrote: > On Wednesday 16 May 2007 14:52, Marcus Better wrote: > > Magnus Holmgren wrote: > > > Now, how do you combine these? Several people have thought: "The VCS > > > can handle the changesets. Putting patches under VCS is silly!" > > > > I fully

Bug#424909: ITP: lbrc -- Linux Bluetooth Remote Control Server

Package: wnpp Severity: wishlist Owner: Patrick Winnertz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> * Package name: lbrc Version : 0.4 Upstream Author : Matthias Blaesing <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> * URL : http://lbrc.berlios.de/ * License : GPL Programming Lang: (C, C++, C#, Perl, Python,

Re: apparently-corrupted-elf-binary lintian problems on recent sid and amd64

Enrico Zini <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I have a package that built fine in June 2006 but when I rebuild it > now in my up to date pbuilder sid chroot gives me the lintian error > "apparently-corrupted-elf-binary". I noticed the same problem here with several packages. The problem seems to be l

Re: Reasons for recommends and suggests

On Thu, 17 May 2007 20:48:57 +0200 "Steinar H. Gunderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Thu, May 17, 2007 at 07:43:09PM +0100, Neil Williams wrote: > > Most users don't need to use the packages given as Recommends or > > Suggests so the purpose, as I see it, is to help those who have unusual > >

Bug#424925: ITP: libjcalendar-java -- Java date chooser bean for graphically picking a date

Package: wnpp Severity: wishlist Owner: Torsten Werner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> * Package name: libjcalendar-java Version : 1.3.2 Upstream Author : Kai Toedter * URL : http://www.toedter.com/en/jcalendar/ * License : LGPL Programming Lang: Java Description :

Re: Bug Squashing Party -- May 17th - 20th

Luk Claes wrote: David Claughton wrote: Is it useful to have bugs already fixed in sid included in the list for BSP purposes? I would have thought "bydist=both" would be more appropriate. You might want to read the section Testing-only bugs at [0] on why lenny-only bugs might also be interes

Re: Reasons for recommends and suggests

On Thu, May 17, 2007 at 07:53:07PM +0200, Thijs Kinkhorst wrote: > On Thu, May 17, 2007 11:58, Kevin Mark wrote: > > Package: mutt > > Suggests: ispell [adds spell cheking while composing emails] > > Suggests: urlview [extracts urls from email and can lanuch a web browser] > > Suggests: mixmaster [

Re: Debian desktop -situation, proposals for discussion and change. Users point of view.

On 17-May-07, 06:23 (CDT), "Mgr. Peter Tuharsky" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I think the LSB-compliance and reasonably short (or reasonably long) > release cycle are inevitable goals. The sooner achieved (naturally), the > better. > You know, Debian has been discussing how to speed up rele

Re: update-initramfs -k all -u

On Wed, May 16, 2007 at 12:23:55AM +0200, martin f krafft wrote: also sprach Tim Dijkstra <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2007.05.15.2201 +0200]: Now what do people think is the best option? (And why?) I use -k all in mdadm already. I could not find any reasons why that would not be a good idea. The re

Re: Reasons for recommends and suggests

> "Neil" == Neil Williams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Neil> The only bug suitable for this scenario is a wishlist bug Neil> for a more verbose manpage. I want to know if I should install the package recommendations or not when I install the package. Unfortunately you cannot see the m

Re: Reasons for recommends and suggests

Neil Williams wrote: > You install a Recommends or Suggests when you want to use some part of > the package that uses it. The obvious place to document such > requirements is the manpage for the optional script. In most cases, > users simply don't need to use those options. Recommends/Suggests ar

Re: Reasons for recommends and suggests

On Fri, 18 May 2007, Brian May wrote: > > "Neil" == Neil Williams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > Neil> The only bug suitable for this scenario is a wishlist bug > Neil> for a more verbose manpage. > > I want to know if I should install the package recommendations or not > when I inst

Re: apparently-corrupted-elf-binary lintian problems on recent sid and amd64

Hi, > So I entered the pbuilder amd64 sid chroot and there objdump -T works > correct. I installed lintian in the chroot and it doesn't return any > error. So amd64 etch objdump doesn't seem to be compatible with amd64 > sid compiled binaries. I didn't bother to search for the real reason, but

Re: Reasons for recommends and suggests

On Thu, May 17, 2007 at 06:22:11PM +0100, Neil Williams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> was heard to say: > On Thu, 17 May 2007 11:29:16 +0200 > Hendrik Sattler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > My problem with the current situation that you either do the policy of > > always > > installing such stuff or you do

ITP: libasterisk-agi-perl -- Asterisk::AGI Module.

Package: wnpp Owner: Rene Mayorga <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Severity: wishlist * Package name: libasterisk-agi-perl * Version : 0.09 * Upstream Author : James Golovich <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> * URL : http://search.cpan.org/~jamesgol/asterisk-perl-0.09/ * License : Artistic L

Re: Debian desktop -situation, proposals for discussion and change. Users point of view.

Look Greg, in the original post, I referred the security patch introduced breakage jut to point out the existence of such risk, in order to make weighting the risks more realistic. Just like this: "There is some degree of risk of breaking functionality connected to upgrading to recent upstrea

Re: Debian desktop -situation, proposals for discussion and change. Users point of view.

Hi, Len Yes, it probably usually is just like that. I see it's just too hard for ordinary desktop user to resolve broken deps, even if it's really such easy as removing one single package. The "undo" should be achievable in simpler way. There are valid assertions that sometimes it's just no

Re: update-initramfs -k all -u

also sprach David Härdeman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2007.05.18.0118 +0200]: > The reason I didn't use it in cryptsetup's initramfs script was that > many people who have > 1 kernel use the second one as a fallback. In > case the updated version of the package which calls update-initramfs in > its po

Work-needing packages report for May 18, 2007

The following is a listing of packages for which help has been requested through the WNPP (Work-Needing and Prospective Packages) system in the last week. Total number of orphaned packages: 396 (new: 12) Total number of packages offered up for adoption: 87 (new: 2) Total number of packages request

Re: Reasons for recommends and suggests

Am Freitag 18 Mai 2007 01:56 schrieb Don Armstrong: > The recommends should be a set such that you'd want to install them, > unless you know specifically why you don't. [In the majority of cases > that I've personally run into, this means "unusual" setups like a > separate database server, stripped

Re: update-initramfs -k all -u

Am Freitag 18 Mai 2007 08:26 schrieb martin f krafft: > also sprach David Härdeman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2007.05.18.0118 +0200]: > > The reason I didn't use it in cryptsetup's initramfs script was that > > many people who have > 1 kernel use the second one as a fallback. In > > case the updated vers