On 07-Dec-02, 16:05 (CST), David B Harris <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Sat, 7 Dec 2002 11:51:03 +0100
> Martin Schulze <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > It is a bad practice to repeat the package name as the first word in
> > the long description.
>
> Why is that again?
Because anything[1] tha
Martin Schulze <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Joshua Haberman wrote:
>>> It is a bad practice to repeat the package name as the first word in the
>>> long description.
>>> Also the URL does not belong into the description but should be
>>> placed in the debian/copyright file instead.
>> What if
On Sat, Dec 07, 2002 at 11:51:03AM +0100, Martin Schulze wrote:
> It is a bad practice to repeat the package name as the first word in the
> long description.
Actually it's bad in the short description, not necessarily in the long one.
> Also the URL does not belong into the description but sho
On Sat, 7 Dec 2002 11:51:03 +0100
Martin Schulze <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> It is a bad practice to repeat the package name as the first word in
> the long description.
Why is that again?
> Also the URL does not belong into the description but should be
> placed in the debian/copyright file
Joshua Haberman wrote:
> > It is a bad practice to repeat the package name as the first word in the
> > long description.
> >
> > Also the URL does not belong into the description but should be
> > placed in the debian/copyright file instead.
>
> What if someone wants to visit the webpage befor
On Sat, 2002-12-07 at 05:51, Martin Schulze wrote:
> It is a bad practice to repeat the package name as the first word in the
> long description.
Fair enough. Fixed.
> Also the URL does not belong into the description but should be
> placed in the debian/copyright file instead.
>
> To quote
* Martin Schulze ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> Your example lists:
>
> Package: foo
> Description: GNOME/KDE/WindowMaker/GNU/Linux>
> foo is a program, designed to help
> you . . Written for
> the , it supports and .
> [..]
> .
> http://www.foo.org.>
>
> It is a bad practice to repeat
Colin Walters wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I think the package descriptions are a very important product of this
> project. They're going to be one of the first things people see when
> they use Debian, and their quality directly reflects on the quality of
> Debian. I've been putting in some random effor
Herbert Xu wrote:
> > Don't forget:
> >
> > 3. It can easily fails if a sentence happens to end at the end of a line.
> > Like the previous sentence, which only a computer programmer would
> > think to add two spaces at the end of. :-)
>
> Not if you also require abbreviations to not extend a
Joey Hess <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Don't forget:
>
> 3. It can easily fails if a sentence happens to end at the end of a line.
> Like the previous sentence, which only a computer programmer would
> think to add two spaces at the end of. :-)
Not if you also require abbreviations to not
On 06-Dec-02, 11:25 (CST), Joey Hess <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Don't forget:
>
> 3. It can easily fails if a sentence happens to end at the end of a line.
>Like the previous sentence, which only a computer programmer would
>think to add two spaces at the end of. :-)
Nah, programmers k
Steve Greenland wrote:
> While technically valid, I don't like his much, for a couple of
> reasons:
>
> 1. I suspect it will be very hard to get this consistently used
> in Debian descriptions, as there are a lot of people who do not
> naturally use the 'period-two-spaces' convention. (I suspect i
On Thu, Dec 05, 2002 at 11:12:17PM -0500, Colin Walters wrote:
> On Thu, 2002-12-05 at 14:59, Javier Fernández-Sanguino Peña wrote:
>
> > Not only "users", software might use them too. We currently don't have
> > a good search interface in our package interface UIs (good search != search
> >
On Thu, Dec 05, 2002 at 03:23:08PM -0500, David B Harris wrote:
> On Thu, 5 Dec 2002 20:59:09 +0100
> Javier Fernández-Sanguino Peña <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > a good search interface in our package interface UIs (good search !=
> > search by words).
>
> ... as opposed to searching based on th
Steve Greenland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 05-Dec-02, 16:49 (CST), "Thomas Bushnell, BSG" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> It is not possible for an automated renderer to figure out where
>> sentence boundaries are without some kind of help, and a mere period
>> is not sufficient help. So, a go
Steve Greenland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> 1. I suspect it will be very hard to get this consistently used
> in Debian descriptions, as there are a lot of people who do not
> naturally use the 'period-two-spaces' convention. (I suspect it is
> entirely determined by how much typing one did on r
On Thu, 2002-12-05 at 14:59, Javier FernÃndez-Sanguino PeÃa wrote:
> Not only "users", software might use them too. We currently don't have
> a good search interface in our package interface UIs (good search != search by
> words). I tried to make (quite a long time ago and it's pretty much
On Wed, 2002-12-04 at 20:26, Simon Richter wrote:
> Colin,
>
> > http://people.debian.org/~walters/descriptions.html
>
> Well, I'm not sure there should be a template -- people will use it (and
> thus try to squeeze information into it). I usually tell my sponsees
> that a description should answ
Steve Greenland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> In standard typography, it is to have extra space after a period ending
> a sentence. For fixed-width fonts, this often shows up as two spaces,
> as is fairly ugly.
Of course, that's simply an opinion, and depends a lot on exactly
_which_ fixed fonts
On Wed, 2002-12-04 at 14:38, Joey Hess wrote:
> Your emphasis on audiences is very good, but I am leery of the treatment
> of package descriptions as advertisements. A package description that
> reads like an in-your-face advertisement can suck at being a package
> description. You're right in so
On Thu, Dec 05, 2002 at 02:49:12PM -0800, Thomas Bushnell, BSG wrote:
> Steve Greenland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > However, this is all on *output* (display, whatever). The input text
> > should have just a single space. The text has to be reformatted to fit
> > the screen (display area) anywa
David B Harris writes:
> Could you point me at the documentation in question?
Debian Packaging Manual
---
Ian Jackson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Revised: David A. Morris <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Steve Greenland wrote:
> (Of course, if this is the worst problem we have with Debian package
> descriptions, I say flip a coin and forget about it.)
I have a better idea -- just forget it altogether. It doesn't need to be
standardized in Debian; it certainly isn't standardized in the
publishing
On Thu, Dec 05, 2002 at 02:49:12PM -0800, Thomas Bushnell, BSG wrote:
> It is not possible for an automated renderer to figure out where
> sentence boundaries are without some kind of help, and a mere period
> is not sufficient help. So, a good convention to establish might be
> that the string ".
On Thu, Dec 05, 2002 at 03:21:24PM -0500, David B Harris <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
was heard to say:
> On Thu, 5 Dec 2002 12:13:57 +0100
> Michael Piefel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Line breaks already aren't preserved, and there already exist a very
> > specific set of rules for that. Look into your
On 05-Dec-02, 16:49 (CST), "Thomas Bushnell, BSG" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> It is not possible for an automated renderer to figure out where
> sentence boundaries are without some kind of help, and a mere period
> is not sufficient help. So, a good convention to establish might be
> that the s
On Thu, Dec 05, 2002 at 10:03:32PM +0100, tomas pospisek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
was heard to say:
> On Thu, 5 Dec 2002, Matt Zimmerman wrote:
> > But do your bug reports keep up with the flow of new packages into the
> > archive? That is, is the overall description quality increasing or
> > decreasi
Steve Greenland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> However, this is all on *output* (display, whatever). The input text
> should have just a single space. The text has to be reformatted to fit
> the screen (display area) anyway (even on a terminal), and it's the job
> of the reformatter/text renderer/w
On Thu, 5 Dec 2002, Matt Zimmerman wrote:
> On Thu, Dec 05, 2002 at 01:58:43PM -0500, Joey Hess wrote:
>
> > Matt Zimmerman wrote:
> > > I'd be willing to invest some time in co-maintenance of a package
> > > description override list.
> >
> > I've had a pretty good amount of response to my descri
On Thu, 5 Dec 2002 20:59:09 +0100
Javier Fernández-Sanguino Peña <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> a good search interface in our package interface UIs (good search !=
> search by words).
... as opposed to searching based on the contents of people's minds? :)
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On Thu, 5 Dec 2002 12:13:57 +0100
Michael Piefel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Line breaks already aren't preserved, and there already exist a very
> specific set of rules for that. Look into your documentation, and have
> a look at dselect.
I already have example applications which don't preserve
On Thu, Dec 05, 2002 at 01:58:43PM -0500, Joey Hess wrote:
> Matt Zimmerman wrote:
> > I'd be willing to invest some time in co-maintenance of a package
> > description override list.
>
> I've had a pretty good amount of response to my description bug reports.
But do your bug reports keep up wit
On Wed, Dec 04, 2002 at 12:55:50PM -0500, Colin Walters wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I think the package descriptions are a very important product of this
> project. They're going to be one of the first things people see when
> they use Debian, and their quality directly reflects on the quality of
> Debia
Matt Zimmerman wrote:
> I'd be willing to invest some time in co-maintenance of a package
> description override list.
I've had a pretty good amount of response to my description bug reports.
--
see shy jo
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On Wed, Dec 04, 2002 at 07:59:20PM -0500, Colin Walters wrote:
[snip]
> > Ooh, goody :) Does this mean #45943 will finally be fixed?
>
> Well, we obviously can't force anyone to do anything; but I hope that
> having the reasoning more clearly laid out will motivate people...
[snip]
Does submit
David B Harris wrote:
> If variable-width fonts are used, then line breaks shouldn't be
> preserved. If they're not going to be preserved, there needs to be a
> very specific set of rules as to how lines are joined. These already
> exist in code, actually; I believe packages.debian.org joins lines.
On Wed, Dec 04, 2002 at 02:09:50PM -0500, Joey Hess wrote:
> Ari Pollak wrote:
> > I think the real issue here isn't so much actual package descriptions,
> > but the ITPs. Most package descriptions I've seen have been pretty
> > accurate, and tend to change a lot between the time of the ITP and
On Thu, Dec 05, 2002 at 12:18:08PM +0100, Michael Piefel wrote:
> Am 4.12.02 um 14:38:07 schrieb Joey Hess:
> > angband: "Sauron [...] most powerful of his servants"
>
> Nice script, Joey, but perhaps you should have looked at the
> description for yourself. :-)
Heh, I succesfully managed to :q!
On Wed, Dec 04, 2002 at 07:19:38PM +, Scott James Remnant wrote:
> In correct English grammar and typography the space after a full stop
> ("period" in Merkin) is supposed to be a wider space then that between
> words and after commas and suchlike.
There is no such thing as "correct" typograph
Am 4.12.02 um 14:38:07 schrieb Joey Hess:
> angband: "Sauron [...] most powerful of his servants"
Nice script, Joey, but perhaps you should have looked at the
description for yourself. :-)
Cheers,
Mike
--
|=| Michael Piefel
|=| Humboldt-Universität zu Berlin
|=| Tel. (+49 30) 2093 3831
Am 4.12.02 um 15:15:53 schrieb David B Harris:
> If variable-width fonts are used, then line breaks shouldn't be
> preserved. If they're not going to be preserved, there needs to be a
> very specific set of rules as to how lines are joined. These already
> exist in code, actually; I believe packag
On Wed, Dec 04, 2002 at 12:55:50PM -0500, Colin Walters wrote:
> I think the package descriptions are a very important product of this
> project. They're going to be one of the first things people see when
> they use Debian, and their quality directly reflects on the quality of
> Debian. I've bee
On Wed, Dec 04, 2002 at 08:05:43PM -0500, Colin Walters wrote:
> I think this is hard to without switching to a format which allows us to
> include more metadata (like XML). So we can explicitly use stuff like
> and for lists, instead of relying on ASCII renderings. That
> way we can safely wor
On Wed, Dec 04, 2002 at 07:49:04PM -0600, John Hasler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> was
heard to say:
> Daniel Burrows writes:
> > On the other hand, a proper markup language would be nice.
>
> I would be appalled were such a thing to be required.
I didn't say I thought it was politically possible to do
Colin Walters wrote:
> I think the package descriptions are a very important product of this
> project. They're going to be one of the first things people see when
> they use Debian, and their quality directly reflects on the quality of
> Debian. I've been putting in some random efforts here and
Ari Pollak wrote:
> I think the real issue here isn't so much actual package descriptions,
> but the ITPs. Most package descriptions I've seen have been pretty
> accurate, and tend to change a lot between the time of the ITP and
> actual package release.
I disagree. Every time I look at the des
Daniel Burrows writes:
> On the other hand, a proper markup language would be nice.
I would be appalled were such a thing to be required.
--
John Hasler
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, Wisconsin
On Wed, Dec 04, 2002 at 08:05:43PM -0500, Colin Walters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> was
heard to say:
> > On an unrelated topic, it would be nice if the description format
> > allowed whitespace to be collapsed/expanded on wordwrapped lines. The last
> > time I checked, it seemed to at least imply that
Colin,
> http://people.debian.org/~walters/descriptions.html
Well, I'm not sure there should be a template -- people will use it (and
thus try to squeeze information into it). I usually tell my sponsees
that a description should answer the following questions, roughly in
that order:
- What does
On Wed, 2002-12-04 at 18:55, Daniel Burrows wrote:
> That might be true, but I would like to see language such as "best
> package for foo" explicitly deprecated in the guide. I've even written
> such stuff myself, back before I realized what the problems were.
> (hopefully there isn't anything
On Wed, 2002-12-04 at 18:58, Daniel Burrows wrote:
> On Wed, Dec 04, 2002 at 12:55:50PM -0500, Colin Walters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> was heard to say:
> > I think the package descriptions are a very important product of this
> > project. They're going to be one of the first things people see when
>
On Wed, Dec 04, 2002 at 12:55:50PM -0500, Colin Walters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> was
heard to say:
> I think the package descriptions are a very important product of this
> project. They're going to be one of the first things people see when
> they use Debian, and their quality directly reflects on th
ike that left in my packages :) )
> > Also, in the description template, two spaces are used after a period -
> > is that standard nowadays?
>
> I think this is an unresolved issue. I've added a section on this to
> the description writing guide.
On an unrelated topi
this "advertisement" stuff,
> do replace all references to "advertisements" with "good advertisements"
> and whatnot :)
Done.
> Also, in the description template, two spaces are used after a period -
> is that standard nowadays?
I think this is an unresolved issue. I've added a section on this to
the description writing guide.
On Wed, Dec 04, 2002 at 07:19:38PM +, Scott James Remnant wrote:
> If you are writing text in something that uses variable width fonts, the
> program should know about English grammar and render the wider space
> itself on any whitespace. (LaTeX is about the only thing that gets it
> right tho
Craig Dickson writes:
> Hmm, you just gave a rule specifically for fixed-width fonts, and now
> you're tacitly assuming that it applies to variable-width fonts as well?
You are supposed to use an n-space between words and an m-space between
sentences when typesetting. Using two spaces with fixed-
On 04-Dec-02, 13:01 (CST), David B Harris <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Also, in the description template, two spaces are used after a period -
> is that standard nowadays?
(Yes, I've read some of the other responses to this.)
In standard typography, it is to have extra space after a period end
On Wed, 2002-12-04 at 19:48, Craig Dickson wrote:
> Scott James Remnant wrote:
>
> > In correct English grammar and typography the space after a full stop
> > ("period" in Merkin) is supposed to be a wider space then that between
> > words and after commas and suchlike.
> >
> Hmm, you just gave
On Wed, 4 Dec 2002 11:33:35 -0800
Craig Dickson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I don't see any reason why package descriptions shouldn't be presented
> in variable-width fonts. The right margin might look a bit ragged
> (assuming the program preserves line breaks, which is probably a good
> idea to a
On 04 Dec 2002 19:19:38 +
Scott James Remnant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> In correct English grammar and typography the space after a full stop
> ("period" in Merkin) is supposed to be a wider space then that between
> words and after commas and suchlike.
Ahh, allright, so there's still reaso
Scott James Remnant wrote:
> In correct English grammar and typography the space after a full stop
> ("period" in Merkin) is supposed to be a wider space then that between
> words and after commas and suchlike.
>
> Therefore typists were always taught to press the space key twice after
> a full s
David B Harris wrote:
> Also, in the description template, two spaces are used after a period -
> is that standard nowadays? (My understanding was that they were
> primarily used for variable-width fonts, where a single space would take
> up very little page space.
There was an interesting discus
On Wed, 2002-12-04 at 19:01, David B Harris wrote:
> Also, in the description template, two spaces are used after a period -
> is that standard nowadays? (My understanding was that they were
> primarily used for variable-width fonts, where a single space would take
> up very little page space. Sin
Le mer 04/12/2002 à 19:11, Ari Pollak a écrit :
> I think the real issue here isn't so much actual package descriptions,
> but the ITPs. Most package descriptions I've seen have been pretty
> accurate, and tend to change a lot between the time of the ITP and
> actual package release.
The proble
On 04-Dec-02, 12:11 (CST), Ari Pollak <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I think the real issue here isn't so much actual package descriptions,
> but the ITPs. Most package descriptions I've seen have been pretty
> accurate, and tend to change a lot between the time of the ITP and
> actual package re
On 04 Dec 2002 12:55:50 -0500
Colin Walters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> http://people.debian.org/~walters/descriptions.html
I do have some differences of opinion, though. It's sad, but there are a
getting to be a fairly large number of DDs who are "attention grabbers".
Just a few days ago, I saw
On 04 Dec 2002 12:55:50 -0500
Colin Walters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> http://people.debian.org/~walters/descriptions.html
Thanks.
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I think the real issue here isn't so much actual package descriptions,
but the ITPs. Most package descriptions I've seen have been pretty
accurate, and tend to change a lot between the time of the ITP and
actual package release.
Colin Walters wrote:
I think the package descriptions are a very i
Hello,
I think the package descriptions are a very important product of this
project. They're going to be one of the first things people see when
they use Debian, and their quality directly reflects on the quality of
Debian. I've been putting in some random efforts here and there to
comment on n
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