Hi,
Quoting Adam Borowski (2013-08-12 02:51:52)
> On Mon, May 06, 2013 at 02:49:57PM +0200, Andreas Beckmann wrote:
> > now might be the right time to start a discussion about release goals
> > for jessie.
>
> I would like to propose full UTF-8 support. I don't mean here full
> support for all o
* Adam Borowski , 2013-08-12, 02:51:
Detecting non-UTF files is easy:
* false positives are impossible
* false negatives are extremely unlikely: combinations of letters that would
happen to match a valid utf character don't happen naturally, and even if they
did, every single combination in the
Ian Jackson writes:
> Jonas Smedegaard writes ("Re: UTF-8 in jessie"):
>> How about we simply mention explicitly that `arcane quoting' - even if
>> arguably related to UTF-8 encoding, should be classified not as
>> release-critical bugs but as spelling errors.
Jonas Smedegaard writes ("Re: UTF-8 in jessie"):
> Quoting Ian Jackson (2013-08-29 18:03:22)
> > Jonas Smedegaard writes ("Re: UTF-8 in jessie"):
> >> I believe the underlying issue is the one summarized here:
> >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ty
Quoting Ian Jackson (2013-08-29 18:03:22)
> Jonas Smedegaard writes ("Re: UTF-8 in jessie"):
>> I believe the underlying issue is the one summarized here:
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typewriter_apostrophe#ASCII_encoding
>
> Yes.
>
>> How about w
Jonas Smedegaard writes ("Re: UTF-8 in jessie"):
> I believe the underlying issue is the one summarized here:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typewriter_apostrophe#ASCII_encoding
Yes.
> How about we simply mention explicitly that `arcane quoting' - even if
> arguabl
Quoting Ian Jackson (2013-08-29 13:56:09)
> Adam Borowski writes ("Re: UTF-8 in jessie"):
> > Let's take a look at some sheets.
>
> Last time I looked at this I found a copy of the actual ASCII
> standards document from 1968 or so and it did mention this usage.
&
Adam Borowski writes ("Re: UTF-8 in jessie"):
> Let's take a look at some sheets.
Last time I looked at this I found a copy of the actual ASCII
standards document from 1968 or so and it did mention this usage.
> > I don't think that better UTF-8 support should involv
On Wed, Aug 28, 2013 at 04:20:17PM +0100, Ian Jackson wrote:
> Adam Borowski writes ("UTF-8 in jessie"):
> > I would like to propose full UTF-8 support. I don't mean here full
> > support for all of Unicode's finer points, merely complete eradication of
> &g
On 12 August 2013 01:51, Adam Borowski wrote:
>
> 3. all file names must be valid UTF-8
>
Case in point errors from ubuntu UDD package importer:
"""
Packages containing non-UTF-8, non-ASCII filenames. This is a problem.
It is unclear how to sensibly map these into Bazaar.
anon-proxy aspell-is as
Adam Borowski writes ("UTF-8 in jessie"):
> I would like to propose full UTF-8 support. I don't mean here full
> support for all of Unicode's finer points, merely complete eradication of
> mojibake. That is, ensuring that /m.o/ matches "möo", or that &quo
On Mon, 12 Aug 2013 02:51:52 +0200, Adam Borowski wrote:
> 4a. perl and pod
>
> Considering perl to be text raises one more issue: pod. By perl's design,
> pod without a specified encoding is considered to be ISO-8859-1, even if
> the file contains "use utf8;". This is surprising, and many auth
On Tue, Aug 13, 2013 at 01:44:03PM +0900, Osamu Aoki wrote:
> But I do not understand goal #5. Why "MUST"? Do you have rationale?
>
> On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 03:50:19PM +0200, Florian Lohoff wrote:
> > On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 02:51:52AM +0200, Adam Borowski wrote:
> > > I propose the following s
On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 05:58:20PM +0200, Adam Borowski wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 03:50:19PM +0200, Florian Lohoff wrote:
> > 5. All programs consuning UTF8 Text must understand a BOM.
>
> I'm afraid I don't agree here: BOMs are nasty stuff that serve no purpose
> once you standardize on UT
On 2013-08-13 10:25:31 +, Thorsten Glaser wrote:
> Vincent Lefevre vinc17.net> writes:
>
> > If scripts intend to use LC_ALL=C.UTF-8 to force everything to
> > the standard locale with UTF-8 support, then the glibc should
> > be modified to regard C.UTF-8 like C w.r.t. $LANGUAGE. I mean:
>
>
Vincent Lefevre vinc17.net> writes:
> If scripts intend to use LC_ALL=C.UTF-8 to force everything to
> the standard locale with UTF-8 support, then the glibc should
> be modified to regard C.UTF-8 like C w.r.t. $LANGUAGE. I mean:
Ouch! Scripts do, and this *is* how C.UTF-8 was intended: to
behav
On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 5:56 PM, Thorsten Glaser wrote:
> Florian Lohoff zz.de> writes:
>
>> 5. All programs consuning UTF8 Text must understand a BOM.
>
> The kernel doesn’t, start there:
>
> tglase@tglase:~$ mksh -c 'print '\''\ufeff#!/bin/sh\necho foo'\' >x; chmod +x
> x; ./x
> ./x: line 1: #
Quoting Charles Plessy (ple...@debian.org):
> Hi Christian,
>
> what I am proposing is a task that install all languages. I made a bit of
> research earlier, and it is not as simple as installing all the existing
> tasks,
> as the result on my computer was that some browsers started to display
Le Tue, Aug 13, 2013 at 08:12:24AM +0200, Christian PERRIER a écrit :
> Quoting Charles Plessy (ple...@debian.org):
>
> > About display by GUIs, I think that we should have a system to install all
> > the
> > fonts necessary to display languages that we support at the installation.
>
>
> Such a
Quoting Charles Plessy (ple...@debian.org):
> About display by GUIs, I think that we should have a system to install all the
> fonts necessary to display languages that we support at the installation.
Such as tasksel and its language tasks? :-)
In short, we already have that. However, we need p
Hi,
UTF-8 is a good goal indeed as principle.
(I agree but I am struggling to update package documentation since
Japanese are known to be tough (JIS 2022/EUCJP/SHIFT-JIS/... are used)
EUC/SHIFT-JIS mixed case can be confused with LATIN-1 easily. )
But I do not understand goal #5. Why "MUST"?
Le Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 03:55:03PM +0200, Adam Borowski a écrit :
> On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 09:58:30AM +0200, Niels Thykier wrote:
> > For the record, there is a Lintian tag for this now[1], which suggests
> > only a handful of packages violates this.
> >
> > > - Recommend ASCII when possible.
>
On 2013-08-12 20:14:30 +0100, Dmitrijs Ledkovs wrote:
> What about locales though?
>
> * C.utf8 locale should be always available
> * C.utf8 locale should be the default/fallback locale
> * utf8 locale variants should be default / available / preferred
> (where appropriate)
If scripts intend to u
On 2013-08-12 17:58:20 +0200, Adam Borowski wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 03:50:19PM +0200, Florian Lohoff wrote:
> > 5. All programs consuning UTF8 Text must understand a BOM.
>
> I'm afraid I don't agree here: BOMs are nasty stuff that serve no purpose
> once you standardize on UTF8. They mi
On 12 August 2013 01:51, Adam Borowski wrote:
> On Mon, May 06, 2013 at 02:49:57PM +0200, Andreas Beckmann wrote:
> I propose the following sub-goals:
>
> 1. all programs should, in their default configuration, accept UTF-8 input
>and pass it through uncorrupted. Having to manually specify en
On 2013-08-12 15:16:59 +0200, Adam Borowski wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 12:50:35PM +0200, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> > On 2013-08-12 02:51:52 +0200, Adam Borowski wrote:
> > > Detecting non-UTF files is easy:
> > > * false positives are impossible
> > > * false negatives are extremely unlikely:
On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 03:50:19PM +0200, Florian Lohoff wrote:
> 5. All programs consuning UTF8 Text must understand a BOM.
I'm afraid I don't agree here: BOMs are nasty stuff that serve no purpose
once you standardize on UTF8. They might help with exchange with a minority
of Windows programs, a
Florian Lohoff zz.de> writes:
> 5. All programs consuning UTF8 Text must understand a BOM.
The kernel doesn’t, start there:
tglase@tglase:~$ mksh -c 'print '\''\ufeff#!/bin/sh\necho foo'\' >x; chmod +x
x; ./x
./x: line 1: #!/bin/sh: No such file or directory
foo
That’s running GNU bash, with
On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 02:51:52AM +0200, Adam Borowski wrote:
> I propose the following sub-goals:
>
> 1. all programs should, in their default configuration, accept UTF-8 input
>and pass it through uncorrupted. Having to manually specify encoding
>is acceptable only in a programmatic in
On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 09:58:30AM +0200, Niels Thykier wrote:
> For the record, there is a Lintian tag for this now[1], which suggests
> only a handful of packages violates this.
>
> > - Recommend ASCII when possible.
> > - Require ASCII for files in /bin, /sbin, /usr/bin, /usr/sbin and
> > /u
On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 12:50:35PM +0200, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> On 2013-08-12 02:51:52 +0200, Adam Borowski wrote:
> > Detecting non-UTF files is easy:
> > * false positives are impossible
> > * false negatives are extremely unlikely: combinations of letters that would
> > happen to match a va
On 2013-08-12 02:51:52 +0200, Adam Borowski wrote:
> Detecting non-UTF files is easy:
> * false positives are impossible
> * false negatives are extremely unlikely: combinations of letters that would
> happen to match a valid utf character don't happen naturally, and even if
> they did, every s
On 2013-08-12 04:18, Charles Plessy wrote:
> Le Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 02:51:52AM +0200, Adam Borowski a écrit :
>>
>> I would like to propose full UTF-8 support. I don't mean here full
>> support for all of Unicode's finer points, merely complete eradication of
>> mojibake.
>
> Hi Adam,
>
Hi,
>
Le Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 02:51:52AM +0200, Adam Borowski a écrit :
>
> I would like to propose full UTF-8 support. I don't mean here full
> support for all of Unicode's finer points, merely complete eradication of
> mojibake.
Hi Adam,
this is a great goal. Here are two comments.
There is a rel
On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 02:51:52AM +0200, Adam Borowski wrote:
> [...]
>
> On the other hand, detecting text files is hard. The best tool so far,
> "file", makes so many errors it's useless for this purpose. One could use
> location: like, declaring stuff in /etc/ and /usr/share/doc/ to be text
On Mon, May 06, 2013 at 02:49:57PM +0200, Andreas Beckmann wrote:
> now might be the right time to start a discussion about release goals
> for jessie.
I would like to propose full UTF-8 support. I don't mean here full
support for all of Unicode's finer points, merely complete eradication of
moji
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