Michael Piefel dijo [Wed, Aug 06, 2003 at 01:34:49PM +0200]:
> > Neither tab-completion or globbing is available when I'm editing a file
> > and have to write those path names.
>
> In Vim insert mode, press ^X^F for completion, ^N/^P to choose among
> many. Also, in GTK+, file selector boxes allow
On Wed, Aug 06, 2003 at 01:40:41AM -0400, Nathanael Nerode wrote:
> Admittedly, I've seen some less than useful messages on boot (mostly
> overly generic messages where I couldn't figure out what part of
> the system could possibly be producing them). Still, most of the
> messages are really pr
Yo!
Em Tue, 5 Aug 2003 20:13:44 -0500, Gunnar Wolf <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> escreveu:
> I completely agree with you... I was arguing with a friend of mine, a
> Ximian developer. He insisted me that they were bringing Unix to the
> desktop of people, just like what Apple did. I insst that is *not* what
* Ian Hickson
| On Wed, 6 Aug 2003, Tollef Fog Heen wrote:
| >
| > Or perhaps the poster should know the policy on Debian lists which is
| > _not_ to Cc unless explicitly requested.
|
| Noted. I was unaware of this, having not seen any mention of this policy
| when I subscribed.
http://www.debi
On Tue, Aug 05, 2003 at 09:55:59AM -0700, Ian Hickson wrote:
>
> I receieved the machine with Debian preinstalled and no offline
> documentation except a post it note with the root username and password.
> On other systems (Mac OS X, Windows XP, etc) I am clearly shown where to
> look for more inf
On Tue, 5 Aug 2003 21:38:19 +0200,
Emile van Bergen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> You know, I think these are actually good suggestions. I think there's a
> lot to be gained *not* by dumbing down, *not* by losing any information
> that might be useful to a geek or to a new user as (s)he's learning,
On Wed, 6 Aug 2003, Tollef Fog Heen wrote:
>
> Or perhaps the poster should know the policy on Debian lists which is
> _not_ to Cc unless explicitly requested.
Noted. I was unaware of this, having not seen any mention of this policy
when I subscribed.
My apologies for any inconvenience caused.
-
Hi, Emile van Bergen wrote:
> I would even scream at
> /Variable Data/
>
> simply because it encourages slow and RSI-inducing click and drag
> behaviour
"/Va" isn't too bad, typing-wise, especially if you also have a
case-insensitive file system.
Apple's OS X translates the pathnames in the GUI
Emile van Bergen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Hi,
>
> On Tue, Aug 05, 2003 at 11:06:53PM +0200, Tollef Fog Heen wrote:
>
>> * Emile van Bergen
>>
>> | Hi,
>> |
>> | On Tue, Aug 05, 2003 at 10:19:53AM -0700, Ian Hickson wrote:
>> |
>> | > And I would scream if you called it "/_My_ Variable Dat
Michael Piefel wrote:
Am 6.08.03 um 13:04:41 schrieb Emile van Bergen:
Tab completion or using /Va* is about as fast as /var.
I've considered tab-completion and /Va*, but you must realise that they
work only in the shell.
Neither tab-completion or globbing is available when I'm editing a file
and
On Wed, 6 Aug 2003 13:34:49 +0200
Michael Piefel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Am 6.08.03 um 13:04:41 schrieb Emile van Bergen:
> > Neither tab-completion or globbing is available when I'm editing a file
> > and have to write those path names.
> In Vim insert mode, press ^X^F for completion, ^N/^
Am 6.08.03 um 13:04:41 schrieb Emile van Bergen:
> > Tab completion or using /Va* is about as fast as /var.
> I've considered tab-completion and /Va*, but you must realise that they
> work only in the shell.
>
> Neither tab-completion or globbing is available when I'm editing a file
> and have to
Hi,
On Tue, Aug 05, 2003 at 11:06:53PM +0200, Tollef Fog Heen wrote:
> * Emile van Bergen
>
> | Hi,
> |
> | On Tue, Aug 05, 2003 at 10:19:53AM -0700, Ian Hickson wrote:
> |
> | > And I would scream if you called it "/_My_ Variable Data/" too... :-P
> |
> | I would even scream at
> |
> | /V
Hi,
On Tue, Aug 05, 2003 at 03:15:59PM -0700, Steve Lamb wrote:
> On Tue, 5 Aug 2003 21:38:19 +0200
> Emile van Bergen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Apple has a great way of doing that. They don't dumb down, they don't
> > belittle you, they assume an intelligent being who can grasp reasonably
>
* Alan Shutko
| Steve Lamb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
|
| > Oh, look, someone else who CCs when it is obvious the person they're
| > responding to is participating right here.
|
| Maybe you should stop whining and just set the Mail-Copies-To header,
| which is generally respected by poster
>>bootlogd.
>>Activating swap.
>>fsck 1.35-WIP (01-Aug-2003)
>>Running 0dns-down to make sure resolv.conf is ok...done.
>>Please contribute if you find this software useful.
>>DHCPDISCOVER on eth0 to 255.255.255.255 port 67 interval 5
>>Starting Xprint servers: Xprt.
>
>
Alan Shutko <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Steve Lamb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
>> Oh, look, someone else who CCs when it is obvious the person they're
>> responding to is participating right here.
>
> Maybe you should stop whining and just set the Mail-Copies-To header,
> which is generall
Gustavo Noronha Silva dijo [Tue, Aug 05, 2003 at 09:26:20PM -0300]:
> > Note that there is at least one project which is looking at doing exactly
> > that while retaining backwards compatability (GoboLinux). It may be worth,
> > on the long term, looking at how it may be possible to migrate from
>
Em Tue, 5 Aug 2003 10:19:53 -0700 (PDT), Ian Hickson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
escreveu:
> > You can't get there from here, I think. Unix admins coming to Debian
> > will scream blue murder if it starts being "/My Variable Data/Logs", and
> > that group is important to us.
>
> Note that there is at le
Em Tue, 05 Aug 2003 17:39:06 -0500, Alan Shutko <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> escreveu:
> Richard Braakman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > Heh, teach yourself to type /Va* and you're going to get BURNED one day.
> > (Your co-sysadmin finds a rootkit on another machine and stores it
> > in /Various Danger
Richard Braakman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Heh, teach yourself to type /Va* and you're going to get BURNED one day.
> (Your co-sysadmin finds a rootkit on another machine and stores it
> in /Various Dangerous Programs/ for later examination...)
And gee, your shell beeps, completes up to /Vari
On Tue, 5 Aug 2003 23:30:11 +0100
Colin Watson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hixie's pretty well-known in certain other free software circles. What
> I've seen of him elsewhere implies to me that he isn't incompetent in
> the least, and frankly I think you're going way overboard in the
> hostility o
Steve Lamb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Oh, look, someone else who CCs when it is obvious the person they're
> responding to is participating right here.
Maybe you should stop whining and just set the Mail-Copies-To header,
which is generally respected by posters on Debian lists?
--
Alan S
On Tue, Aug 05, 2003 at 03:03:54PM -0700, Steve Lamb wrote:
> On Tue, 5 Aug 2003 09:55:59 -0700 (PDT)
> Ian Hickson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > And I'm a geek, one who has been using GNU-based distributions on multiple
> > machines on a daily basis for at least 3 years, and Sun for 6 years befor
On Tue, 5 Aug 2003 22:16:37 +0200
Emile van Bergen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I would even scream at
>
> /Variable Data/
>
> simply because it encourages slow and RSI-inducing click and drag
> behaviour, because such path names are impossible to type in (and this
> one even requires escaping t
On Tue, 5 Aug 2003 21:38:19 +0200
Emile van Bergen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Apple has a great way of doing that. They don't dumb down, they don't
> belittle you, they assume an intelligent being who can grasp reasonably
> complex English sentences, but who has less knowledge of computer
> idiom
On Tue, Aug 05, 2003 at 11:06:53PM +0200, Tollef Fog Heen wrote:
> Tab completion or using /Va* is about as fast as /var.
Heh, teach yourself to type /Va* and you're going to get BURNED one day.
(Your co-sysadmin finds a rootkit on another machine and stores it
in /Various Dangerous Programs/ for
First off, error messages can always be improved, and I bet the program
maintainers would be happy to accept patches, so long as those patches
don't *decrease* the amount of information available.
But in one area you're dead wrong:
On 05-Aug-03, 11:55 (CDT), Ian Hickson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Oh, look, someone else who CCs when it is obvious the person they're
responding to is participating right here.
On Tue, 5 Aug 2003 09:55:59 -0700 (PDT)
Ian Hickson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Tue, 5 Aug 2003, Steve Lamb wrote:
> What manual?
I rest my case.
> I receieved the machine
Ian Hickson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Tue, 5 Aug 2003, Steve Lamb wrote:
>>>
>>> Note that, if for some reason the user knew about the command
>>> "apropos", even that wouldn't help him -- none of dselect, aptitude,
>>> and apt-get come up for "apropos install" or "apropos setup".
>>
>> I do
* Emile van Bergen
| Hi,
|
| On Tue, Aug 05, 2003 at 10:19:53AM -0700, Ian Hickson wrote:
|
| > And I would scream if you called it "/_My_ Variable Data/" too... :-P
|
| I would even scream at
|
| /Variable Data/
|
| simply because it encourages slow and RSI-inducing click and drag
| behavi
Debian should not change its attitude or methods to "meet the end
user's needs". Think of Debian as a the painter's palette. All of the
tools you need are available to you. It installs a base system and you
customize from there. Would I recommend Debian for John Doe user? As a
base raw install
Hi,
On Tue, Aug 05, 2003 at 10:19:53AM -0700, Ian Hickson wrote:
> And I would scream if you called it "/_My_ Variable Data/" too... :-P
I would even scream at
/Variable Data/
simply because it encourages slow and RSI-inducing click and drag
behaviour, because such path names are impossible t
Hi,
On Tue, Aug 05, 2003 at 09:55:59AM -0700, Ian Hickson wrote:
[SNIP]
> Why can't we instead have nice friendly messages? e.g.:
>
>Startup logging has begun. Log will be stored in '/var/log/boot'.
>
> ...instead of "bootlogd".
[SNIP]
> > Error messages are there for people who know wha
On Tuesday 05 August 2003 18:55, Ian Hickson wrote:
> Without meaning offense, that is a very selfish attitude. The number of
> future debian users is *significantly* larger than the number of existing
> users, unless something drastic happens to either humanity or debian
> itself. Why should every
On Wed, Aug 06, 2003 at 12:33:18AM +1000, Hamish Moffatt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
was heard to say:
> > I think Debian's package system is remarkably nice. Unfortunately,
> > it's UI leaves a lot to be desired. The biggest problem is probably
>
> Which UI did you use? We have a few. apt-get is not an
On Tue, 5 Aug 2003, Colin Watson wrote:
>>
>> The term "dselect" means nothing to me. It isn't a usable name. That's
>> another example of the problem I mentioned.
>
> Tools have names, and they don't really have to be generic. I think it's
> quite acceptable for the installation manual to tell you
I agree with every word
There are lot's of packages to do Debian more user friendly, they are
available at install time and after by running tasksel.
Maybe the problem was the way that Debian was "pre-installed" I
think they only installed base. This isn't suitable for a "user". Maybe
i
On Tue, 5 Aug 2003, Steve Lamb wrote:
>>
>> Note that, if for some reason the user knew about the command
>> "apropos", even that wouldn't help him -- none of dselect, aptitude,
>> and apt-get come up for "apropos install" or "apropos setup".
>
> I do believe they are mentioned several times in the
Em Tue, 5 Aug 2003 10:49:17 +0200, Frederik Rousseau <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
escreveu:
> Anyway, does this mean we need something like a GNU/Linux Debian and a
> GNU/Linux Debian For Dummies showing only icons?
Yes, I think so... Debian-Desktop should be that, probably. I would like
to see a packag
On Tue, Aug 05, 2003 at 08:14:23AM -0700, Ian Hickson wrote:
> On Wed, 6 Aug 2003, Hamish Moffatt wrote:
> > On Tue, Aug 05, 2003 at 01:33:19AM -0700, Ian Hickson wrote:
> > > Part of the problem I had was that I had a vague understanding that
> > > there was something called "apt", but that I didn
On Tue, 5 Aug 2003 08:14:23 -0700 (PDT)
Ian Hickson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Note that, if for some reason the user knew about the command
> "apropos", even that wouldn't help him -- none of dselect, aptitude,
> and apt-get come up for "apropos install" or "apropos setup".
I do believe the
On Wed, 6 Aug 2003, Hamish Moffatt wrote:
>
> On Tue, Aug 05, 2003 at 01:33:19AM -0700, Ian Hickson wrote:
> > Part of the problem I had was that I had a vague understanding that
> > there was something called "apt", but that I didn't know what it was
> > or how to do anything with it. The man page
On Tue, Aug 05, 2003 at 01:33:19AM -0700, Ian Hickson wrote:
> Part of the problem I had was that I had a vague understanding that
> there was something called "apt", but that I didn't know what it was
> or how to do anything with it. The man page said to see apt-get's;
> apt-get's man page suggest
On Tue, 2003-08-05 at 15:04, David Z Maze wrote:
> I don't think we need to abandon the power of our current
> infrastructure, just have ways of making it less visible for people
> who don't want it.
Just a random off-the-wall idea, but *maybe* there could be a new
package tag added which means th
Frederik Rousseau <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>> I really think aptitude should only show end user packages with
>> decent, readable, localised names ("Apache Web Server", "x Chat (IRC
>> Client)", "Infrared Control for XMMS"). At the moment the user is
>> completely overwhelmed by the list of pac
> I think Debian's package system is remarkably nice. Unfortunately,
> it's UI leaves a lot to be desired. The biggest problem is probably
> the package names: "freetype", "pango", "libgtk2.0", etc, mean
> absolutely nothing to me, as a user, and I really shouldn't ever have
> to even see these pa
On Tuesday 05 August 2003 10:33, Ian Hickson wrote:
> Hey guys,
>
> I was amused to see my blog post [1] made it to this list. I figured
> I'd clarify a few points which were omitted from that blog in the
> interests of brevity and humour.
>
> Mike Hommey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Unfortunatel
Hey guys,
I was amused to see my blog post [1] made it to this list. I figured
I'd clarify a few points which were omitted from that blog in the
interests of brevity and humour.
Mike Hommey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Unfortunately, his main problem is "Having not used Debian for about
> 8 y
On Tue, Aug 05, 2003 at 12:11:44AM +0200, Mike Hommey wrote:
> And another thing : it seems that the pre-installed Debian he got was
> configured with both testing/unstable in the sources.list file. Pinning is
> not the easiest thing to catch when you are (alone) beginner with Debian...
It's al
On Mon, 2003-08-04 at 22:12, Nikolai Prokoschenko wrote:
> I just found this, maybe aîuseful read
>
> http://ln.hixie.ch/?start=1060025253&count=1
>
"I used apt-get to get aptitude. I fired up aptitude."
The writer is obviously a moron if he did this with such ease and it
never occured to him h
On Monday 04 August 2003 23:12, Nikolai Prokoschenko wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I just found this, maybe aîuseful read
>
> http://ln.hixie.ch/?start=1060025253&count=1
Unfortunately, his main problem is "Having not used Debian for about 8 years".
The strange thing is that he has been able to apt-get ins
Hello,
I just found this, maybe aîuseful read
http://ln.hixie.ch/?start=1060025253&count=1
--
Nikolai Prokoschenko
[EMAIL PROTECTED] / Jabber: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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