Re: Proposed MBF: packages that FTBFS with make --shuffle

2025-05-05 Thread Lucas Nussbaum
On 05/05/25 at 22:14 +0200, Santiago Vila wrote: > In some cases, the bug is already known, because debian/rules > has --max-parallel=1. Example: The alpine package. > > (I wonder how much feasible would be to skip those packages) The alpine package is indeed a good example of a package that make

Re: discussion extension (was: Re: General Resolution: Interpretation of DFSG on Artificial Intelligence (AI) Models

2025-05-05 Thread Andreas Tille
Hi Mo, Am Mon, May 05, 2025 at 06:24:32PM -0400 schrieb M. Zhou: > Hi Andreas, > > According to constitution A.1.6, would you mind helping us extend > the discussion period by a week? > https://www.debian.org/devel/constitution I hereby extend the discussion period by a week. I admit that I con

discussion extension (was: Re: General Resolution: Interpretation of DFSG on Artificial Intelligence (AI) Models

2025-05-05 Thread M. Zhou
Hi Andreas, According to constitution A.1.6, would you mind helping us extend the discussion period by a week? https://www.debian.org/devel/constitution >From the feedbacks I've heard, there are a couple of problems we are facing currently. * Myself being confident in proposal A is one thing. Bu

Re: Bug#1104643: Don't consider tests during build that can use internet if available as rc buggy

2025-05-05 Thread Pirate Praveen
On 06/05/2025 1:33 am, Bill Allombert wrote: On Tue, May 06, 2025 at 01:12:43AM +0530, Pirate Praveen wrote: I think we have to consider test target in rules differently from build targets as the effect on these on the final binaries we ship is different. I agree the current policy fit well wh

Re: Bug#1104643: Don't consider tests during build that can use internet if available as rc buggy

2025-05-05 Thread Bill Allombert
On Tue, May 06, 2025 at 01:12:43AM +0530, Pirate Praveen wrote: > I think we have to consider test target in rules differently from build > targets as the effect on these on the final binaries we ship is different. > > I agree the current policy fit well when applied to the build target. As we > d

Re: Proposed MBF: packages that FTBFS with make --shuffle

2025-05-05 Thread Santiago Vila
In some cases, the bug is already known, because debian/rules has --max-parallel=1. Example: The alpine package. (I wonder how much feasible would be to skip those packages) Thanks.

Re: Proposed MBF: packages that FTBFS with make --shuffle

2025-05-05 Thread Lucas Nussbaum
Hi, On 05/05/25 at 21:53 +0200, Santiago Vila wrote: > El 5/5/25 a las 21:26, Lucas Nussbaum escribió: > > [...] > > Thanks a lot for this. I was never brave enough to go ahead > and announce a MBF. > > May I know what kind of machines did you use to found those bugs? > Machines with 8 CPUs only

Re: General Resolution: Interpretation of DFSG on Artificial Intelligence (AI) Models

2025-05-05 Thread Jeremy Bícha
On Mon, May 5, 2025 at 2:49 PM Mo Zhou wrote: > On 5/5/25 11:44, Andrey Rakhmatullin wrote: > >> It is too rush to start to vote for this within 3 weeks > > > > Does this maybe sound like the GR call was premature? > > The project consensus, especially after > > https://www.debian.org/vote/2021/vo

Re: Proposed MBF: packages that FTBFS with make --shuffle

2025-05-05 Thread Santiago Vila
El 5/5/25 a las 21:26, Lucas Nussbaum escribió: [...] Thanks a lot for this. I was never brave enough to go ahead and announce a MBF. May I know what kind of machines did you use to found those bugs? Machines with 8 CPUs only? (I ask because I found more than 800 packages with makefile issues

Re: Bug#1104643: Don't consider tests during build that can use internet if available as rc buggy

2025-05-05 Thread Pirate Praveen
[adding -devel] On 05/05/2025 2:49 pm, Bill Allombert wrote: On Sat, May 03, 2025 at 09:11:21PM +0530, Pirate Praveen wrote: Package: debian-policy Version: 4.7.2.0 Dear Pirate, Control: block 1104509 by -1 As a general policy, such block is inappropriate. Package are supposed to comply wit

Re: Proposed MBF: packages that FTBFS with make --shuffle

2025-05-05 Thread Soren Stoutner
On Monday, May 5, 2025 12:26:00 PM Mountain Standard Time Lucas Nussbaum wrote: > Hi, > > GNU Make now has a --shuffle option that simulates non-deterministic > ordering of target prerequisites. See > https://trofi.github.io/posts/238-new-make-shuffle-mode.html and also > previous work in Debian

Proposed MBF: packages that FTBFS with make --shuffle

2025-05-05 Thread Lucas Nussbaum
Hi, GNU Make now has a --shuffle option that simulates non-deterministic ordering of target prerequisites. See https://trofi.github.io/posts/238-new-make-shuffle-mode.html and also previous work in Debian by Santiago Vila: https://people.debian.org/~sanvila/make-shuffle/ While make always process

Re: General Resolution: Interpretation of DFSG on Artificial Intelligence (AI) Models

2025-05-05 Thread Mo Zhou
On 5/5/25 11:44, Andrey Rakhmatullin wrote: It is too rush to start to vote for this within 3 weeks Does this maybe sound like the GR call was premature? The project consensus, especially after https://www.debian.org/vote/2021/vote_003, seems to say that we don't want multi-month GR discussio

Re: General Resolution: Interpretation of DFSG on Artificial Intelligence (AI) Models

2025-05-05 Thread Ansgar 🙀
Hi, On Mon, 2025-05-05 at 16:13 +, Stefano Rivera wrote: > Read section A.2 of the constitution: you can withdraw your ballot > option, and the GR won't happen. Others may pick it up and carry it > through to a GR, though. There is that part though: +--- | No new ballot options may be prop

Re: General Resolution: Interpretation of DFSG on Artificial Intelligence (AI) Models

2025-05-05 Thread Stefano Rivera
Hi Mo (2025.05.05_15:15:01_+) "The minimum discussion period is 2 weeks. The maximum discussion period is 3 weeks." This is surprising to me. Does that mean we must start to vote when we reach the maximum discussion period? I just thought I can go back and reply to the detailed issues in

Re: General Resolution: Interpretation of DFSG on Artificial Intelligence (AI) Models

2025-05-05 Thread Ansgar 🙀
Hi, On Mon, 2025-05-05 at 11:15 -0400, Mo Zhou wrote: > It is too rush to start to vote for this within 3 weeks as I'm > completely not available for involving into discussions. It is two weeks unless something specific happens, so discussion period might already have ended by now... Ansgar

Re: General Resolution: Interpretation of DFSG on Artificial Intelligence (AI) Models

2025-05-05 Thread Andrey Rakhmatullin
On Mon, May 05, 2025 at 11:15:01AM -0400, Mo Zhou wrote: More information can be found at: https://www.debian.org/vote/2025/vote_002 I guess this is still in "discussion period"?  When does that period end and the vote begin? That's described in https://www.debian.org/devel/constitution.en

Re: General Resolution: Interpretation of DFSG on Artificial Intelligence (AI) Models

2025-05-05 Thread Mo Zhou
On 5/5/25 01:58, Andrey Rakhmatullin wrote: On Sun, May 04, 2025 at 09:24:45PM -0500, Steven Robbins wrote: More information can be found at: https://www.debian.org/vote/2025/vote_002 I guess this is still in "discussion period"?  When does that period end and the vote begin? That's descri