Hi,
On 5/18/23 02:15, Sam Hartman wrote:
Helmut> I think at this point, we have quite universal consensus
Helmut> about the goal of moving files to their canonical location
Helmut> (i.e. from / to /usr) as a solution to the aliasing problems
Helmut> while we do not have cons
On Wed, May 17, 2023 at 08:14:52PM -0500, Richard Laager wrote:
> They mention, "We likely have to complete Modern C porting first to remove
> any instances of -Wimplicit-function-declaration otherwise the redirects in
> glibc for e.g. time->time64 won't actually work." That links to:
> https://inb
Hi Helmut,
On Wed, May 17, 2023 at 08:31:13AM +0200, Helmut Grohne wrote:
> > Based on the analysis to date, we can say there is a lower bound of ~4900
> > source packages which will need to be rebuilt for the transition, and an
> > upper bound of ~6200. I believe this is a manageable transition,
On Tue, May 16, 2023 at 09:31:05PM -0700, Russ Allbery wrote:
> Steve Langasek writes:
> > * Largely via NMU, add a “t64” suffix to the name of runtime library
> > packages whose ABI changes on rebuild with the above flags. If an
> > affected library already has a different suffix (c102, c2,
I support transitioning to 64-bit time_t. Thank you for taking this on!
Gentoo has a similar migration:
https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Project:Toolchain/time64_migration
They mention, "We likely have to complete Modern C porting first to
remove any instances of -Wimplicit-function-declaration ot
Hi!
On Tue, 2023-05-16 at 21:04:10 -0700, Steve Langasek wrote:
> === Technical details ===
>
> The proposed implementation of this transition is as follows:
>
> * Update dpkg-buildflags to emit -D_FILE_OFFSET_BITS=64 and -D_TIME_BITS=64
> by default on 32-bit archs. (Note that this enables L
Luca Boccassi writes:
> On Wed, 17 May 2023 at 01:05, Russ Allbery wrote:
>> I do think the industry is moving away (well, has already moved away)
>> from Linux Standards Base pre-compiled C binaries without wrappers like
>> snap or flatpak, although there are some very notable exceptions, such
On Wed, 17 May 2023 at 01:05, Russ Allbery wrote:
>
> Luca Boccassi writes:
>
> > It does say something interesting. When we started, the assertion was
> > that packages not relying on the symlink being present was fundamental
> > for portability and cross-compatibility. Then, it shrinked to
> >
On 15/05/2023 19:00, Simon McVittie wrote:
> On Sun, 14 May 2023 at 23:37:34 +0200, Josh Triplett wrote:
>> People build things on Debian that are not Debian packages. People
>> compile binaries on Debian, and expect them to work on any system that
>> has sufficiently new libraries.
>
> *raises ha
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> "Helmut" == Helmut Grohne writes:
Helmut> Moving on to category 4 feels rather obvious, especially
Helmut> because work has been done there in debootstrap. The
Helmut> approach in debootstrap however is one that I see as a dead
Helmut> end, because it causes us to maintain t
> "Helmut" == Helmut Grohne writes:
Helmut> I think at this point, we have quite universal consensus
Helmut> about the goal of moving files to their canonical location
Helmut> (i.e. from / to /usr) as a solution to the aliasing problems
Helmut> while we do not have consensus o
Hi Craig,
On Wed, May 17, 2023 at 10:14:17PM +1000, Craig Small wrote:
> On Wed, 17 May 2023 at 14:10, Steve Langasek wrote:
> > Over on debian-arm@lists, there has been discussion on and off for several
> > months now about the impending 32-bit timepocalypse. As many of you are
> > aware, 32-b
Jeremy Stanley writes:
> Throwing another common one on the heap, similar to the previous Steam
> example, Python wheels with compiled extensions are often distributed on
> PyPI for a fictional "manylinux" platform which indicates they're
> intended to be usable on most GNU/Linux distributions (t
On Wed, 17 May 2023 at 14:10, Steve Langasek wrote:
> Over on debian-arm@lists, there has been discussion on and off for several
> months now about the impending 32-bit timepocalypse. As many of you are
> aware, 32-bit time_t runs out of space in 2038; the exact date is now less
> than 15 years
On 2023-05-16 17:05:25 -0700 (-0700), Russ Allbery wrote:
[...]
> Well, believe what you believe, but I literally do that daily, as
> does anyone else who regularly uses software from a Rust or Go
> ecosystem. Not a single work day goes by without me running, on
> some random Ubuntu or Red Hat or
Hi all,
first of all thank you for this great thread. While I could feel some
tension while reading it, it's completely normal and I've learned a lot.
I have a question though: if /lib64/ld-linux-x86-64.so.2 is already a
symlink on non-merged-/usr systems, pointing to
/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/l
On Wed, 17 May 2023 at 10:31, Helmut Grohne wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> This bootstrap aspect got me and I discussed this with a number of
> people and did some research.
>
> On Sun, May 07, 2023 at 12:51:21PM +0100, Luca Boccassi wrote:
> > I don't think this is true? At least not in the broader sense: if
On May 17, Helmut Grohne wrote:
> Given the feedback, I am convinced that changing PT_INTERP is a stupid
> idea regardless of whether it is technically feasible. There must be a
> better way. Let's step back a bit.
Me too, I was never persuaded.
> 4. Change the bootstrap protocol. In essence, t
At 2023-05-17T11:30:36+0200, Helmut Grohne wrote:
> This bootstrap aspect got me and I discussed this with a number of
> people and did some research.
I'd like to nominate you for a Russ Allbery Award for the most useful
post to the thread. Your attention to concrete, empirical details,
arising n
Hi,
This bootstrap aspect got me and I discussed this with a number of
people and did some research.
On Sun, May 07, 2023 at 12:51:21PM +0100, Luca Boccassi wrote:
> I don't think this is true? At least not in the broader sense: if you
> compile something on Debian, it will obviously get linked a
Hi Steve,
On Tue, May 16, 2023 at 09:04:10PM -0700, Steve Langasek wrote:
> Over on debian-arm@lists, there has been discussion on and off for several
> months now about the impending 32-bit timepocalypse. As many of you are
> aware, 32-bit time_t runs out of space in 2038; the exact date is now
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