Quoting "Ron Johnson" :
On 2009-07-26 17:00, Miles Bader wrote:
Chris Lamb writes:
Agreed. IMHO, it is one of those phrases (along with "Our priority is
our users") that actually means extremely little in practice, except for
generating lots of hot air with nobody agreeing.
"Our priority is
On Sun, Jul 26, 2009 at 11:53:55PM -0500, Manoj Srivastava wrote:
> If memory serves correctly, that slogan was added to the web
> site without discussion, and was never ratified by the project,
> though I do remember Bruce being very pleased about it.
>
> It certainly has not b
On Sun, Jul 26 2009, Ron Johnson wrote:
> On 2009-07-26 17:00, Miles Bader wrote:
>> Chris Lamb writes:
>>> Agreed. IMHO, it is one of those phrases (along with "Our priority is
>>> our users") that actually means extremely little in practice, except for
>>> generating lots of hot air with nobody
On Sun, Jul 26 2009, Frans Pop wrote:
> You're correct of course. If we want to go this way there should be two
> questions: one for the system shell to use and one for the default user
> shell, each with per-arch defaults.
>
> From the discussion there seem to be three groups:
> - embedded: wa
On Sun, Jul 26 2009, Steve Langasek wrote:
> On Sun, Jul 26, 2009 at 09:48:38AM -0500, Manoj Srivastava wrote:
>> I see this asserted a lot. I am pretty sure that the average
>> user very likely does not care. The embedded system folks certainly do
>> --- but I am not sure that the count
Manoj Srivastava wrote:
On Sun, Jul 26 2009, Mark Allums wrote:
Manoj Srivastava wrote:
On Sat, Jul 25 2009, Joe Smith wrote:
"Manoj Srivastava" wrote:
Virt-what is more accurate than Imvirt, version 1.0 can tell the
difference between Xen Dom0 and DomU. The new version (1.1, released
on 2
On Sun, Jul 26 2009, Jonathan Wiltshire wrote:
> On Sun, Jul 26, 2009 at 05:08:20PM +0200, Luk Claes wrote:
>>
>> On upgrades you are asked if you want to have dash as default system
>> shell unless you have dash already installed, then we leave it as
>> is.
>
> On my unstable box I received dash
On 2009-07-26 17:00, Miles Bader wrote:
Chris Lamb writes:
Agreed. IMHO, it is one of those phrases (along with "Our priority is
our users") that actually means extremely little in practice, except for
generating lots of hot air with nobody agreeing.
"Our priority is endless surreal flamewars
On Sun, Jul 26, 2009 at 09:48:38AM -0500, Manoj Srivastava wrote:
> I see this asserted a lot. I am pretty sure that the average
> user very likely does not care. The embedded system folks certainly do
> --- but I am not sure that the counter assertion that systems will
> break if /bin/s
Luk Claes writes:
> Manoj Srivastava wrote:
>> On Sun, Jul 26 2009, Luk Claes wrote:
>>
>>> Goswin von Brederlow wrote:
>
>>> A faster and smaller default system shell is important to a lot of our
>>> users.
>>
>> I see this asserted a lot. I am pretty sure that the average
>> user very
Manoj Srivastava writes:
> On Sun, Jul 26 2009, Raphael Geissert wrote:
>
>
>> Goswin von Brederlow wrote:
>
>>> So the deconf thing is purely a temporary thing and goes away. There
>>> won't be a choice left. Users will just get /bin/sh pointing to dash
>>> period.
>
>> No, /bin/sh is shipped to
Frans Pop writes:
> Philipp Kern wrote:
>> On 2009-07-23, Frans Pop wrote:
>>> In addition all shells supported as defaults would need to be included
>>> on CD images. And the selected shell would of course have to be set as
>>> the default for new users.
>>
>> Strike the "of course". If I wan
Hector Oron writes:
> Hi,
>
> Thanks for the introduction.
>
> 2009/7/25 Goswin von Brederlow :
>> after listening to the "Multiarch round table" talk at Debconf I feel
>> that the talk was targeted at people already familiar with the subject
>> and jumped right in at full speed. Someone new to t
Raphael Hertzog writes:
> Hi,
>
> I haven't jumped into this discussion it but it starts annoying me...
>
> On Sun, 26 Jul 2009, Goswin von Brederlow wrote:
>> The choice being that the admin may dpkg-divert /bin/sh to whatever
>> shell he wants and he then can fix whatever breaks. Great. We alre
Chris Lamb writes:
> Agreed. IMHO, it is one of those phrases (along with "Our priority is
> our users") that actually means extremely little in practice, except for
> generating lots of hot air with nobody agreeing.
"Our priority is endless surreal flamewars over minor technicalities"
seems abou
On Sun, Jul 26, 2009 at 01:51:43PM +0200, Luca Falavigna wrote:
>
> Ryan Niebur
>midori
>
It doesn't work with midori apparently...
$ /usr/bin/waf build
Waf: Entering directory `/server/home/ryan52/projects/deb/midori/midori/_build_'
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "/usr/bin/waf"
Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Michael Shuler
* Package name: libnet-mosso-cloudfiles-perl
Version : 0.43
Upstream Author : Léon Brocard
* URL : http://search.cpan.org/dist/Net-Mosso-CloudFiles/
* License : Perl (Artistic and GPL)
Programming Lang:
Hi,
> I've built a small proof-of-concept library which creates Java-style
> tracebacks for C and C++ programs. In contrast to libc's backtrace()
> function, it uses DWARF debugging information when available, so the
> output is generally quite useful. Debugging information is extracted
> from t
Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: "Philip G. Lee"
Package name: brewtarget
Version : 1.1
Upstream Author : Philip G. Lee
URL : http://sourceforge.net/projects/brewtarget
License : GPL-3
Programming Lang: C++
Description : GUI beer brewing
On Sun, Jul 26, 2009 at 05:08:20PM +0200, Luk Claes wrote:
>
> On upgrades you are asked if you want to have dash as default system
> shell unless you have dash already installed, then we leave it as
> is.
On my unstable box I received dash a few days ago, because an upload of
bash started depend
Hi Stefano,
you must have missed my followup to Manoj.
On Sun, Jul 26, 2009 at 18:35 +0200, you wrote:
> On Sun, Jul 26, 2009 at 02:04:51PM +0200, Siggy Brentrup wrote:
> > > > My question is: will it ever happen that I may safely leave
> > > > /bin/sh -> dash
> > > Been there. Done that. Had
On Sun, Jul 26, 2009 at 02:04:51PM +0200, Siggy Brentrup wrote:
> > > My question is: will it ever happen that I may safely leave
> > > /bin/sh -> dash
> > Been there. Done that. Had no problems.
Been there too. Done that too. Had no problems as well.
> I'm not sure about it because there wer
Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: A Mennucc
* Package name: dvbstreamer
Version : 2~svn
Upstream Author : Adam Charrett et al
* URL : https://sourceforge.net/projects/dvbstreamer/
* License : GPL 2
Programming Lang: C, Python
Description : DVBSt
Javier Fernandez-Sanguino wrote:
> > First of all, let's make it clear, Debian is not THE universal
> > operating system. I mean it is definitely not the one and only OS.
>
> As said in the talk @ Debconf: this is just a slogan.
Agreed. IMHO, it is one of those phrases (along with "Our priorit
On Sun, Jul 26, 2009 at 09:58 -0500, Manoj Srivastava wrote:
> On Sun, Jul 26 2009, Siggy Brentrup wrote:
>
>
> > My question is: will it ever happen that I may safely leave
> > /bin/sh -> dash
> > while running an upgrade without fearing a maintainer script
> > fails?
>
> I think th
Philipp Kern wrote:
> On 2009-07-23, Frans Pop wrote:
>> In addition all shells supported as defaults would need to be included
>> on CD images. And the selected shell would of course have to be set as
>> the default for new users.
>
> Strike the "of course". If I want my users to have zsh as a
On Sun, Jul 26 2009, Siggy Brentrup wrote:
> My question is: will it ever happen that I may safely leave
> /bin/sh -> dash
> while running an upgrade without fearing a maintainer script
> fails?
I think that any script failure when using dash or bash as
/bin/sh would represent a sig
Manoj Srivastava wrote:
On Sun, Jul 26 2009, Luk Claes wrote:
Goswin von Brederlow wrote:
A faster and smaller default system shell is important to a lot of our
users.
I see this asserted a lot. I am pretty sure that the average
user very likely does not care. The embedded system
On Sun, Jul 26 2009, Luk Claes wrote:
> Goswin von Brederlow wrote:
>> You say that dash is configurable as /bin/sh via debconf but in the
>> next sentence you say you want dash to ship a /bin/sh link to dash. So
>> the deconf thing is purely a temporary thing and goes away. There
>> won't be a c
On Sun, Jul 26 2009, Raphael Geissert wrote:
> Goswin von Brederlow wrote:
>> So the deconf thing is purely a temporary thing and goes away. There
>> won't be a choice left. Users will just get /bin/sh pointing to dash
>> period.
> No, /bin/sh is shipped to guarantee a symlink.
I take
Goswin von Brederlow wrote:
Hi,
Hi
in the talk you said you add a choice for /bin/sh and you add more
freedom.
The choice being that the admin may dpkg-divert /bin/sh to whatever
shell he wants and he then can fix whatever breaks. Great. We already
have exactly that now. There is nothing add
On Sun, Jul 26, 2009 at 12:09:11AM +0200, Florian Weimer wrote:
> libstdc++6-4.3-dbg does not currently follow this, which prompted me
> to write this message:
Are this debugging symbols or complete debugging builds?
> This is already a bug today because GDB can't find the objects (and my
> code
Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Tony Houghton
I'm the upstream developer and I had been including a debian directory
with my releases for some time. I've just updated that and made it
lintian-clean with the intent of becoming the official (sponsored)
maintainer for it.
Newsstar is a mat
On 26/07/09 at 12:52 +0200, Michael Banck wrote:
> On Sun, Jul 26, 2009 at 05:06:02PM +0900, akira yamada wrote:
> > (We have already ruby1.9 package. But this package is needed for
> > transition to Ruby 1.9.1 from Ruby 1.9.0. Please refer to debian-ruby
> > list if you have questions.)
>
> I d
On Sun, Jul 26, 2009 at 14:49 +0300, Lars Wirzenius wrote:
> su, 2009-07-26 kello 13:36 +0200, Siggy Brentrup kirjoitti:
> > My question is: will it ever happen that I may safely leave
> > /bin/sh -> dash
> > while running an upgrade without fearing a maintainer script
> > fails?
>
> Been ther
su, 2009-07-26 kello 13:36 +0200, Siggy Brentrup kirjoitti:
> My question is: will it ever happen that I may safely leave
> /bin/sh -> dash
> while running an upgrade without fearing a maintainer script
> fails?
Been there. Done that. Had no problems.
Also, Ubuntu, which mainly uses Debian pa
Hello,
waf has been recently sponsored and it's currently in NEW (until it
lasts, you can see its details at [1]).
waf preferred design is to provide a self-unpacking Python script to be
installed into projects' root directories and then executed from there,
we adjusted it to be available system-
On Sun, Jul 26, 2009 at 05:06:02PM +0900, akira yamada wrote:
> (We have already ruby1.9 package. But this package is needed for
> transition to Ruby 1.9.1 from Ruby 1.9.0. Please refer to debian-ruby
> list if you have questions.)
I don't know; maybe you should explain while you need a transiti
Hi list,
apologies again for the nonsense I uttered in another thread on this
issue.
I've been off list for more than 5 years now and I remember the
discussion on changing the default system shell to be recurring every
now and then in '03-'04. Arguments were essentially the same as
nowadays mean
Hi Sam,
on Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 16:53 -0400, you wrote:
> > "Siggy" == Siggy Brentrup writes:
[snipping nonsense and reply]
My sincere apologies for that nonsense, my only excuse is that I was
overtired and I'm quite concerned about this issue not being solved in
5 years I've be away from d
On Sat, Jul 25, 2009 at 11:57:12PM +0200, Goswin von Brederlow wrote:
> Hi,
>
> after listening to the "Multiarch round table" talk at Debconf I feel
> that the talk was targeted at people already familiar with the subject
> and jumped right in at full speed. Someone new to the idea was
> probably
Hi,
Thanks for the introduction.
2009/7/25 Goswin von Brederlow :
> after listening to the "Multiarch round table" talk at Debconf I feel
> that the talk was targeted at people already familiar with the subject
> and jumped right in at full speed. Someone new to the idea was
> probably lost in th
Hi,
I haven't jumped into this discussion it but it starts annoying me...
On Sun, 26 Jul 2009, Goswin von Brederlow wrote:
> The choice being that the admin may dpkg-divert /bin/sh to whatever
> shell he wants and he then can fix whatever breaks. Great. We already
> have exactly that now. There i
[No need to send me copies of replies, thanks]
Hi,
Goswin von Brederlow wrote:
> Hi,
>
> in the talk you said you add a choice for /bin/sh and you add more
> freedom.
True.
>
> The choice being that the admin may dpkg-divert /bin/sh to whatever
> shell he wants and he then can fix whatever br
* Frank Lin PIAT [090726 00:23]:
> Why many Debian users and Developers are really happy with this Univeral
> OS concept?
To provoke some thought, consider the following calculation:
Assume everything is only made to suite 90% of the people. How many
packages do you need to have a less than 50%
2009/7/26 Frank Lin PIAT :
> ## BANNER { http://www.debian.org/banners/3.1/sarge-ban1-6.png }
>
> Universal operating system #...@!
>
> First of all, let's make it clear, Debian is not THE universal operating
> system. I mean it is definitely not the one and only OS.
As said in the talk @ Debconf:
Hi,
in the talk you said you add a choice for /bin/sh and you add more
freedom.
The choice being that the admin may dpkg-divert /bin/sh to whatever
shell he wants and he then can fix whatever breaks. Great. We already
have exactly that now. There is nothing added. No mechanism and no
assurances t
Goswin von Brederlow (24/07/2009):
> Give me the freedom to choose.
It looks like we just reached the “Linux is about choice” Goswin point.
Mraw,
KiBi.
signature.asc
Description: Digital signature
Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: akira yamada
* Package name: ruby1.9.1
Version : 1.9.1
Upstream Author : Yukihiro Matsumoto
* URL : http://www.ruby-lang.org/
* License : Ruby's
Programming Lang: C
Description : Interpreter of object-oriented s
On Sun, Jul 26 2009, Mark Allums wrote:
> Manoj Srivastava wrote:
>> On Sat, Jul 25 2009, Joe Smith wrote:
>>
>>> "Manoj Srivastava" wrote:
> Virt-what is more accurate than Imvirt, version 1.0 can tell the
> difference between Xen Dom0 and DomU. The new version (1.1, released
> on 23
* Paul Wise:
> On Sun, Jul 26, 2009 at 12:09 AM, Florian Weimer wrote:
>
>> Separate debug information objects [name?] must be installed under
>> /usr/lib/debug. The file name must be the result of calling
>> realpath() on the path to the actual DSO containing code, prepended
>> with the stri
On Sun, Jul 26, 2009 at 12:09 AM, Florian Weimer wrote:
> Separate debug information objects [name?] must be installed under
> /usr/lib/debug. The file name must be the result of calling
> realpath() on the path to the actual DSO containing code, prepended
> with the string "/usr/lib/debug".
Manoj Srivastava wrote:
On Sat, Jul 25 2009, Joe Smith wrote:
"Manoj Srivastava" wrote:
Virt-what is more accurate than Imvirt, version 1.0 can tell the
difference between Xen Dom0 and DomU. The new version (1.1, released
on 23 july 2009) can tell the difference between QEMU and KVM, and can
I have also some thoughs about DPL talk:
Debian is NOT an universal operating system.
Debian is going in direction to be an universal collection
of OSes.
1- One size fits all ?
IMHO the "universal os" seems to imply this. I don't agree.
We need different solutions. IMHO embedian is an example
On Sat, Jul 25 2009, Joe Smith wrote:
> "Manoj Srivastava" wrote:
>>> Virt-what is more accurate than Imvirt, version 1.0 can tell the
>>> difference between Xen Dom0 and DomU. The new version (1.1, released
>>> on 23 july 2009) can tell the difference between QEMU and KVM, and can
>>> tell if yo
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