it is used in one init system already,
and it is very extensible. Now that you know that systemd does not
actually use SOCK_SEQPACKET, but SOCK_DGRAM, do you have any changes in
opinion of the systemd approach?
Thank you for your time,
Cameron Norman
On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 9:43 AM, Tollef Fog Heen wrote:
If this is not required by systemd, why is it done by sd_notify ?
It's not.
You obviously did not read the code. It is. Here is a G+ convo with
Lennart I had:
> As a sender you only have to set SCM_CREDENTIALS manually if you
wan
The documentation says what sd_notify() does, not what the minimum
requirements are. The documentation should be clarified IMO, but
Lennart does not seem to want to do so (even though he already typed up
a paragraph about it on G+).
On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 9:02 AM, Ian Jackson
wrote:
Nikolau
On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 9:38 AM, Ian Jackson
wrote:
(Sorry, 2nd copy here because I missed up the change of To field in
the previous one.)
cameron writes ("Re: Bug#733452: init system daemon readiness
protocol"):
I was curious: why should SOCK_STREAM be used instead of SOCK
On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 11:56 AM, Russ Allbery wrote:
The latest that I have seen on this porting effort is here:
http://blog.surgut.co.uk/2013/11/libnih-upstart-dependency-ported-to.html
I asked previously on this bug if someone had later news. Do you have
more information than that?
The
On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 1:35 PM, Tollef Fog Heen wrote:
]] cameron
On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 9:43 AM, Tollef Fog Heen
wrote:
>> If this is not required by systemd, why is it done by sd_notify
?
>>
> It's not.
You obviously did not read the code. It is. Her
On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 3:30 PM, Steve Langasek
wrote:
On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 11:56:33AM -0800, Russ Allbery wrote:
>> Rather, we're talking about whether or not to swap out a core
component
>> of an existing integrated ecosystem with a component that we like
>> better.
> Unless you a
t as the init daemon is another
possibility, and at least in that case the sysvinit scripts are
probably
still lying around. We don't even necessarily have to choose between
those up-front.
Cheers,
Cameron Norman
this, why do we not file a bug in
launchpad asking for the per-job logs to be able to be shown by initctl
(possibly via a --show-logs option)? In fact, I just did it:
https://bugs.launchpad.net/upstart/+bug/1265123.
(P.S. sorry for the sass, it is just so fun :)
Nighty night,
Cameron Norman
el of systemd can be achieved with only a
little effort, and considerably more flexibility.
Good night,
Cameron Norman
, and only recently did that change. I agree it was a poor design
choice, and the systemd devs did not outright oppose it (as they should
have IMO), but it was not technically systemd's fault.
Best regards,
Cameron Norman
not. In fact, Debian //should not//, because GNOME consciously decided
(or will decide) to break non-systemd compatibility, and knew that
doing so would break GNOME on Debian (in its current state).
Cheers,
Cameron Norman
So unless the TC wants to remove a great number of packages from the
arch
Josselin,
I actually added that to the statement. I did so because it has
legitimate uses, and because it is something that a number of people
have expressed interest in using.
Best regards,
Cameron Norman
On Tue, Dec 31, 2013 at 5:56 PM, Josselin Mouette
wrote:
Le dimanche 29 décembre
Steve,
I am very sorry, I did not see the paragraph. I will familiarize myself
with the debate system before contributing to it again.
Happy New Years,
Cameron Norman
On Tue, Dec 31, 2013 at 6:21 PM, Steve Langasek
wrote:
On Wed, Jan 01, 2014 at 01:54:17AM -0008, cameron wrote:
I
On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 4:56 AM, Colin Watson wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 31, 2013 at 04:27:16AM -0008, cameron wrote:
> > On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 7:17 PM, Colin Watson
> > >inotify is used to notice changes to configuration files. This is
> > >certainly helpful for user
atch files or paths for changes. Using IPC is much more subtle
than the SystemStarter's keys and requires more work from the developer,
but it may* <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed>*lead
to cleaner and quicker startups." --
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laun
On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 5:09 PM, Nikolaus Rath wrote:
> Cameron Norman writes:
> > On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 4:00 PM, Nikolaus Rath wrote:
> >
> >> Colin Watson writes:
> >> > The criticisms of Upstart's event model in the systemd position
> >> &
On Thu, Jan 2, 2014 at 8:35 AM, Russ Allbery wrote:
> I wanted to lift this out of the thread it was buried in and see if I'm
> understanding it correctly, since if I am, it seems like a significant
> issue.
>
> Cameron Norman writes:
>
> > I think you raise a lot
e
> |(or the use of any embedded copies included by upstream).
> |
>
| 9. [ Policy should provide non-binding suggestions to Debian
> |contributors who are converting daemons to upstart and/or systemd,
> |for example:
> |
> |(a) If changes are necessary to th
necessary.
>
>
It seems like you just explained how it has already happened. systemd's
cgroup interface is covered under the stability promise, and seems like a
good fit for a standard interface to the single cgroup arbitrator.
Cameron
any other init system, and
therefore will have a small, confined effect when doing so and should be
allowed.
Regards,
Cameron
problem is avoided because GNOME does not start
when logind starts, it just starts whenever the runlevel is right and then
logind is started automatically. So if GNOME is stopped/waiting, you can
start logind without GNOME starting.
--
Cameron Norman
as Ubuntu continues using upstart.
If you have the time, I must ask: if Upstart had no CLA, would you
prefer it over systemd?
--
Cameron Norman
be more easily transferred to the
other format.
Best,
--
Cameron Norman
or Upstart maintainers,
but it is theoretically possible.
Cheers,
--
Cameron Norman
that, with these two packages (one virtual), the systemd packagers
will be happy and GNOME can actually function properly with no intervention.
--
Cameron Norman
system but have it throw a critical debconf prompt and fail to install if
> installed noninteractively.
>
I undeservedly thought this was a given.
Thanks for the thoughts,
--
Cameron Norman
On Sat, Feb 1, 2014 at 8:36 PM, Chris Knadle wrote:
> On Saturday, February 01, 2014 19:14:21 Cameron Norman wrote:
> > On Sat, Feb 1, 2014 at 6:35 PM, Russ Allbery wrote:
> > > I *like* systemd, and I would still be very unhappy
> > > if a routine aptitude upgrade (o
e same could be said of systemd, though
(with GNOME and KDE instead of Pantheon and Cinnamon), though.
Have a great day,
Cameron
dent votes.
I think it moreso indicates that if there are separate votes, that the
init system choice can not be first. I do wonder, how many TC members
would support voting on GR, then on T/L (or whatever it is you, Colin,
and Steve are working on), then on the init system?
--
Cameron Norman
ble when he presented the question to
the TC (or am I mistaken?).
--
Cameron
it
[1] https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=712763
Best regards,
--
Cameron Norman
is very stressful, and that is never
good. I do not know your taste in music, but maybe you will like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNygDLi9gb4.
Top of the day,
--
Cameron Norman
(that you would
not be surprised if upstart support was removed) seems like it is.
Would you mind clarifying a little?
Thanks y buenos noches,
--
Cameron Norman
ormat has more
> bells and whistles, many of them can be ignored if you don't support
> whatever it is. I don't think it's worth emphasising ease of
> consumption either way.
I believe the major aspect of .desktop files that makes them harder is the
icon handling. Perhaps debian policy should instruct that a certain icon
size must always be available in a particular format (e.g. 32x32 png) so
that WMs do not have to handle so many corner cases in that area.
Best,
--
Cameron Norman
ld know that systemd-sysv is
going to be installed (to satisfy init package's dependency) and would
not install systemd-shim, correct? Although, according to Steve that
would be simply an aesthetic issue, as systemd-shim does not impede
operation of systemd as init.
Best regards,
--
Cameron Norma
ond pass at changing the init.
Also, although the squeeze/wheezy -> jessie bit Ian wrote seems to be
incorrect, his last point still stands: on a jessie minbase (with init
shifted to !systemd-sysv), if you install libpam-systemd, your init is
changed back to systemd.
So the "system
on to this is when you remove bash, and you get a
loud warning at that point.
Cheers,
--
Cameron Norman
--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-ctte-requ...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive:
https://lists.debian.org
Tollef Fog Heen, on behalf of the systemd team
UNIX is user friendly, it's just picky about who its friends are
Thanks,
--
Cameron Norman
u have to manually "systemctl enable
> serial-getty@ttyX.service".
>
> I wonder if it might make sense to do a one-time migration that parses
> /etc/inittab, looks for serial console getty lines, and enables
> serial-getty@.service for any consoles it finds gett
cribe above. The package's files include
/lib/systemd/system/cg{manager,proxy}.service; is there anything wrong
with how those service definitions are being installed that allows
cgmanager to run on systemd without the user explicitly enabling it?
Best wishes,
--
Cameron Norman
--
To
the
pain of having systems still running sysvinit for many years to come,
which makes the distribution more difficult to support.
If there was an intention to do so, how would we go about switching
systems over to systemd in the next release, if we use the solution
displayed here in Jessie?
Thanks
On Sat, Nov 22, 2014 at 9:01 AM, Cameron Norman
wrote:
> Hello,
>
> On Sat, Nov 22, 2014 at 5:21 AM, Adam Borowski wrote:
>> Hi!
>> As Ansgar requests technical solutions, here's one:
>>
>> just like systemd-shim|systemd-sysv, switch the "init&q
| sysvinit | sysvinit-core | upstart".
If an automatic switch is something that the project wants, but after
Jessie, then then the init dependency would be changed to
"systemd-sysv | sysvinit-core | upstart".
Cheers,
--
Cameron Norman
--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-ctte-requ..
On Sat, Nov 22, 2014 at 6:10 PM, Adam Borowski wrote:
> On Sat, Nov 22, 2014 at 05:29:42PM -0800, Cameron Norman wrote:
>> I would like to propose a different one.
> [...]
>>
>> So, the change would be that: the sysvinit package would cease being a
>> transition /
On Sat, Nov 29, 2014 at 11:15 PM, Tollef Fog Heen wrote:
> ]] Cameron Norman
>
>> On Sat, Nov 22, 2014 at 6:10 PM, Adam Borowski wrote:
>> > On Sat, Nov 22, 2014 at 05:29:42PM -0800, Cameron Norman wrote:
>> >> I would like to propose a different one.
>> &
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