Re: Bug#727708: init system thoughts

2013-12-31 Thread Josh Triplett
On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 10:37:42PM -0800, Steve Langasek wrote: > On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 09:58:07PM -0800, Josh Triplett wrote: > > > But in the real world, we have a lot of services that we just want to > > > start > > > in runlevel 2 and be able to trust that the network and disk are sorted. >

Re: Bug#727708: init system thoughts

2013-12-30 Thread Steve Langasek
On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 09:58:07PM -0800, Josh Triplett wrote: > > But in the real world, we have a lot of services that we just want to start > > in runlevel 2 and be able to trust that the network and disk are sorted. > > This is the classic guarantee that sysvinit gave us pre-udev, but it's > >

Re: Bug#727708: init system thoughts

2013-12-30 Thread Josh Triplett
Steve Langasek wrote: > So for a concrete example of where I think upstart's model lets us get > things right at boot that systemd's dependency model does not (or at least, > this hasn't been done yet in Debian), I'd like to direct your attention to > /etc/network/if-up.d/upstart . Conceptually, t

Re: Bug#727708: init system thoughts

2013-12-30 Thread Josh Triplett
Colin Watson wrote: > (Now, I've been working with Upstart's model for years, and it's now a > pretty fundamental way of how I think of system operation; so if people > who are new to *both* models rather than partisans of one side or the > other consistently tell me that the systemd model is easie