On Fri, 1 Sept 2023 at 09:23, Helmut Grohne wrote:
>
> Hi Luca,
>
> At least three DDs have asked you to stop. Why do you continue?
>
> In all of your mails to this bug, I've seen little attempt at trying to
> understand other participants. In a project as large as Debian, it is to
> be expected t
Hi Ian,
On Wed, 2023-08-30 at 12:52 +0100, Ian Jackson wrote:
> Debian has historically been simply much more reliable.
Could you quantify this? This is not my experience.
As far as I understand you often use non-standard configurations
(split-/usr, non-standard init system, ...) which might exp
Hi Luca,
At least three DDs have asked you to stop. Why do you continue?
In all of your mails to this bug, I've seen little attempt at trying to
understand other participants. In a project as large as Debian, it is to
be expected that disagreement arises. That's not the end of the world,
but it i
sly on an
uncountable number of Debian, Ubuntu, Mint, Fedora, RHEL, CentOS,
Arch, SUSE, Yocto, Gentoo, etc. installations, for a decade in some of
those cases.
> Helmut Grohne writes ("Bug#1050001: Unwinding directory aliasing [and 3 more
> messages]"):
> > In order to pr
about when it is OK to refer to files by the "wrong" name, which
cannot even be stated clearly, let along succinctly.
Despite all this, apparently when we argue for continued reliance on
this disproven assertion we go back to imprecise statements.
Helmut Grohne writes ("Bug#1050
Helmut Grohne writes:
...
> As such, my expectation is that moving from where we are to your idea
> is not any easier than moving from a post-DEP-17 state. Therefore, I
> do not see any need to delay DEP-17 work.
I've been wondering about this possibility too.
If a symlink flowerbed is where we
On Sun, 27 Aug 2023 at 11:30, Matthew Vernon wrote:
>
> Dear Luca,
>
> On 27/08/2023 03:16, Luca Boccassi wrote:
>
> [things]
>
> You've already been asked by a couple of people to moderate your tone in
> this thread. I appreciate there is a lot of frustration around
> /usr-merge, but your contrib
On Sun, 27 Aug 2023 at 18:03, Sam Hartman wrote:
>
>
> TL;DR: I think I understand one of Ian's points. I explain, but do not
> believe it is compelling as an argument to switch direction.
>
> > "Helmut" == Helmut Grohne writes:
> >> I think "package management" is the wrong term here.
TL;DR: I think I understand one of Ian's points. I explain, but do not
believe it is compelling as an argument to switch direction.
> "Helmut" == Helmut Grohne writes:
>> I think "package management" is the wrong term here. It's not
>> just our tools and packages that are affected.
Hi Ian,
On Sat, Aug 26, 2023 at 11:24:33AM +0100, Ian Jackson wrote:
> Helmut Grohne writes ("Bug#1050001: Unwinding directory aliasing"):
> > On Wed, Aug 23, 2023 at 05:04:36PM +0100, Ian Jackson wrote:
> > > And, the approach being taken very seriously privileges De
Hi Matthew,
On Sun, 2023-08-27 at 11:30 +0100, Matthew Vernon wrote:
> Any such consideration must be mindful of the fact that the majority of
> Debian installs are now /usr-merged, which means that the complexity of
> unwinding such installs has to be a heavy factor in thinking about
> alterna
Dear Luca,
On 27/08/2023 03:16, Luca Boccassi wrote:
[things]
You've already been asked by a couple of people to moderate your tone in
this thread. I appreciate there is a lot of frustration around
/usr-merge, but your contributions are not helping with that at all. Nor
do they help us have
On Sat, 26 Aug 2023 at 11:27, Ian Jackson
wrote:
>
> Helmut Grohne writes ("Bug#1050001: Unwinding directory aliasing"):
> > On Wed, Aug 23, 2023 at 05:04:36PM +0100, Ian Jackson wrote:
> > > And, the approach being taken very seriously privileges Debian itsel
Helmut Grohne writes ("Bug#1050001: Unwinding directory aliasing"):
> On Wed, Aug 23, 2023 at 05:04:36PM +0100, Ian Jackson wrote:
> > And, the approach being taken very seriously privileges Debian itself,
> > and those well-staffed derivatives able to do the necessar
On Fri, Aug 25, 2023 at 06:50:54AM +0200, Ansgar wrote:
> If someone wants to go this way, I suggest to just have a GR about it
> instead of iterating this at tech-ctte yet again. It's not very
> motivating to have some people endlessly argue against moving forward
> and wanting to revisit/revers
Control: retitle -1 migrate from merged-/usr to new alternative filesystem
layout
On Thu, 2023-08-24 at 13:36 -0600, Sam Hartman wrote:
> > > > >
> For myself, I think the issues raised in DEP17 are significant enough
> that I would at least read a proposal to explain a different way to get
> to
> "Ansgar" == Ansgar writes:
Ansgar> And the more important question: how often do we want to
Ansgar> rehash the usrmerge discussion? At some point we should
Ansgar> stick with a decision and not endlessly restart discussions
Ansgar> (unless something really significant chang
Hi Simon,
On Wed, 2023-08-23 at 20:12 +0100, Simon McVittie wrote:
> I'm keen to avoid the anti-pattern where a valid technical point gets
> disregarded or even opposed because the way it was expressed puts
> other project members on the defensive.
[...]
> I alluded to that in a previous mail to t
Hi,
On Wed, 2023-08-23 at 17:04 +0100, Ian Jackson wrote:
> Simon McVittie writes ("Bug#1050001: Unwinding directory aliasing"):
> > What do you consider to be the end goal of this proposal?
>
> Desired end state
> =
>
> This is a very good qu
Hi Ian,
On Wed, Aug 23, 2023 at 05:04:36PM +0100, Ian Jackson wrote:
> Desired end state
> =
>
> This is a very good question. I had a very constructive conversation
> with Helmut via video chat. It seems that there's a misunderstanding
> about the desired end state.
I concur.
On Wed, 23 Aug 2023 at 17:04:36 +0100, Ian Jackson wrote:
> Simon McVittie writes ("Bug#1050001: Unwinding directory aliasing"):
> > What do you consider to be the end goal of this proposal?
>
> My idea of a desired end state is as follows:
>
> /bin and /lib etc.
Also, one other thing I noticed:
tl;dr: *no* version of usrmerge relieves us of the obligation of
naming files correctly, via the proper name in /usr rather than /.
Ian Jackson writes ("Bug#1050001: Unwinding directory aliasing"):
> The current plan, as I understand it, is that we w
Simon McVittie writes ("Bug#1050001: Unwinding directory aliasing"):
> What do you consider to be the end goal of this proposal?
Desired end state
=
This is a very good question. I had a very constructive conversation
with Helmut via video chat. It seems t
On Fri, 18 Aug 2023 at 07:57:14 +0100, Ian Jackson wrote:
> I think we can probably fix it by backing out this change, and then
> doing usrmerge the traditional Debian way by making changes to
> debhelper, so that we move the files package by package, in the .debs.
What do you consider to be the e
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