Bastian Blank wrote:
On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 11:35:54AM +0200, Martin Steigerwald wrote:
> So Devuan almost doubles the percentage of sysvinit-core installations.
Devuan is _not_ Debian. They forked it, with the full knowledge that
they might have to do all the work to support their choices.
Paul Wise writes:
> On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 7:30 PM Martin Steigerwald wrote:
>> As long as people choose to strip of dependencies to libsystemd from
>> packages like util-linux, avoiding a fork would not work with how Debian
>> and Debian based distributions are built.
>
> It might be feasible to
On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 7:30 PM Martin Steigerwald wrote:
> As long as people choose to strip of dependencies to libsystemd from
> packages like util-linux, avoiding a fork would not work with how Debian
> and Debian based distributions are built.
It might be feasible to introduce nosystemd build
On Wed 17/Oct/2018 23:06:24 +0200 Russ Allbery wrote:
>> You say "more than adequate". I don't particularly see it as providing a
>> solid system as you don't get restart on failure. Now I can see how
>> people say that this is not a problem as daemons should not crash in the
>> first place. Maybe
Bastian Blank - 19.10.18, 12:25:
> On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 11:35:54AM +0200, Martin Steigerwald wrote:
> > So Devuan almost doubles the percentage of sysvinit-core
> > installations.
> Devuan is _not_ Debian. They forked it, with the full knowledge that
> they might have to do all the work to sup
Holger Levsen - 19.10.18, 12:02:
> On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 11:35:54AM +0200, Martin Steigerwald wrote:
> > A minority? Yes. But a sizable one.
>
> It doesn't matter how many people use it, if noone is willing to
> maintain it. *If* people are maintaining it, it also doesnt matter
> how many people
On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 11:35:54AM +0200, Martin Steigerwald wrote:
> A minority? Yes. But a sizable one.
It doesn't matter how many people use it, if noone is willing to maintain
it. *If* people are maintaining it, it also doesnt matter how many people
are using it :)
*Someone* needs to do the
On 10/13/18 12:58 PM, Holger Levsen wrote:
> On Sat, Oct 13, 2018 at 06:01:43AM +0100, Ben Hutchings wrote:
>>> Has policy changed regarding support for multiple inits, or is it just that
>>> no one is maintaining the shim and sysvinit-core?
>>
>> The latter. systemd-shim has been orphaned for o
__
I'm using this express-made address because personal addresses aren't
masked enough at this mail public archive. Public archive administrator
should fix this against automated addresses collectors.
El 17/10/18 a les 23:06, Russ Allbery ha escrit:
> I consider providing an init script eve
Philipp Kern writes:
> On 17.10.2018 06:52, Russ Allbery wrote:
>> I think a package of a daemon that does not inherently require any
>> systemd-specific features and would work straightforwardly with
>> sysvinit, but has only a systemd unit file and no init script, is not
>> only buggy but RC-bu
On 17.10.2018 06:52, Russ Allbery wrote:
> I think a package of a daemon that does not inherently require any
> systemd-specific features and would work straightforwardly with sysvinit,
> but has only a systemd unit file and no init script, is not only buggy but
> RC-buggy. That's what Policy curr
Philipp Kern writes:
> I don't understand. If I submit a merge request to the maintainer, it's
> on me to test what I submit actually works. So if I add stuff for a
> completely different init system I have to test it. The question is: Is
> the package buggy if it does not contain an init script
Hi Petter,
(Dropping backports)
Petter Reinholdtsen writes:
>> 1. systemd-shim is not necessary, even for DEs (except GNOME3).
>> 2. sysvinit-core is very stable and do not need new uploads.
>
> Thank you for expressing so well the cause of the fate for sysvinit in
> Debian. It seem clear its p
On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 07:20:24PM +0200, Adam Borowski wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 05:54:34PM +0200, Petter Reinholdtsen wrote:
> > Absolutely. And the sysvinit boot system have lots of unsolved problems
> > we never got around to figuring out, related to disk and other device
> > setup. Th
On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 05:54:34PM +0200, Petter Reinholdtsen wrote:
> > SysV init leaves all the really hard problems to these, as it cannot
> > really do much by itself. That's a fact that people that keep yelling
> > "but SysV init was so easy!" keep finessing..
>
> Absolutely. And the sysvini
On Tue, 2018-10-16 at 14:48 +0200, Philipp Kern wrote:
> The question is: Is
> the package buggy if it does not contain an init script but a systemd
> unit and it seems to be the case. Note that there are a *lot* of useful
> options in a systemd unit that would need emulation to make properly
>
[Martin Pitt]
> It's not only that. The sysvinit package *itself* doesn't actually do
> much really. That's not to downplay your past involvement there of
> course (e. g. developing insserv alone was a huge task), but the
> *real* maintenance is in all the packages that *ship* SysV init
> scripts.
Petter Reinholdtsen [2018-10-16 15:55 +0200]:
> [Benda Xu]
> > I was about to reply to this thread, but you have completely expressed
> > what I want to say:
> >
> > 1. systemd-shim is not necessary, even for DEs (except GNOME3).
> > 2. sysvinit-core is very stable and do not need new uploads.
>
>
On Tue, 16 Oct 2018, Adam Borowski wrote:
> > > With only two modified binary packages (policykit-1 and udisks2) I’ve
> 1. You need to recompile these packages, this is not something an average
> user or even sysadmin knows how to do.
I publish .deb packages for them (although not for all arches
On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 07:47:36PM +0800, Benda Xu wrote:
> Thorsten Glaser writes:
> > … this applies to the shim only. I was a bit surprised seeing on
> > someone else’s system that it was no longer installable, but almost
> > all systemd-free systems of people I know do not use the shim anyway,
[Benda Xu]
> I was about to reply to this thread, but you have completely expressed
> what I want to say:
>
> 1. systemd-shim is not necessary, even for DEs (except GNOME3).
> 2. sysvinit-core is very stable and do not need new uploads.
Thank you for expressing so well the cause of the fate for sy
On 2018-10-16 at 08:48, Philipp Kern wrote:
> On 2018-10-16 14:36, Ian Jackson wrote:
>
>> Philipp Kern writes ("Re: Debian Buster release to partially drop
>> non-systemd support"):
>>
>>> Could someone reiterate about what the current state of
On 2018-10-16 14:36, Ian Jackson wrote:
Philipp Kern writes ("Re: Debian Buster release to partially drop
non-systemd support"):
Could someone reiterate about what the current state of init diversity
is supposed to be? Is it assumed to be best effort of every maintainer
being requir
Philipp Kern writes ("Re: Debian Buster release to partially drop non-systemd
support"):
> Could someone reiterate about what the current state of init diversity
> is supposed to be? Is it assumed to be best effort of every maintainer
> being required to ship an init script
KatolaZ writes ("Re: Debian Buster release to partially drop non-systemd
support"):
> The problem that spurred this thread is that sysvinit needs a
> maintainer. That's why some of us are here: our intention is to help
> with maintaining sysvinit in Debian if poss
Matthew Vernon - 16.10.18, 13:27:
> Ian Jackson writes:
> > Also we are hampered by the lack of a safe space to communicate and
> > coordinate. I looked at some of the technical work done in other
> > distros to try to make desktoppy stuff continue to work well, and it
> > generally seems sane.
On 2018-10-16 13:27, Matthew Vernon wrote:
So:
http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/debian-init-diversity
It's a standard mailman list with a public archive. I'm hoping people
interested in init system diversity in Debian can use it as a place to
co-ordinate. I don't want it to be
Hi Thorsten,
Thorsten Glaser writes:
> … this applies to the shim only. I was a bit surprised seeing on
> someone else’s system that it was no longer installable, but almost
> all systemd-free systems of people I know do not use the shim anyway,
> so I’d take the Subject line with a few grains o
Ian Jackson writes:
> Also we are hampered by the lack of a safe space to communicate and
> coordinate. I looked at some of the technical work done in other
> distros to try to make desktoppy stuff continue to work well, and it
> generally seems sane. But some of those projects are quite toxic
On Mon, 2018-10-15 at 22:31 -0700, Alessio Treglia wrote:
> On Mon, Oct 15, 2018 at 9:51 PM Enzo Nicosia
> wrote:
> > Please, just tell us who we should contact (current/last
> > maintainer?) to start working on that.
>
> That's easy [1].
It is, but the link you gave is a rather cryptic way of p
To me it looks like that the package is ready for adoption, as Petter
also already mentioned:
Re: Debian Buster release to partially drop non-systemd support
https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2018/10/msg00171.html
For adopting it, one would need to become at least a Debian maintainer,
or…
On Mon, Oct 15, 2018 at 9:51 PM Enzo Nicosia wrote:
> Please, just tell us who we should contact (current/last
> maintainer?) to start working on that.
That's easy [1].
Thanks.
[1]
https://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=pkg-sysvinit-de...@lists.alioth.debian.org
--
Alessio Treglia
On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 12:18 AM Adam Borowski wrote:
> The main problem with sysvinit is the lack of a git repository.
There is an upstream git repository with commits up to September 2018:
http://savannah.nongnu.org/projects/sysvinit
http://git.savannah.nongnu.org/cgit/sysvinit.git
--
bye,
p
On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 09:16:37AM +0800, Paul Wise wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 12:18 AM Adam Borowski wrote:
>
> > The main problem with sysvinit is the lack of a git repository.
>
> There is an upstream git repository with commits up to September 2018:
>
> http://savannah.nongnu.org/proje
On Mon, Oct 15, 2018 at 06:02:37PM +0200, Adam Borowski wrote:
> On Mon, Oct 15, 2018 at 04:18:57PM +0200, Thorsten Glaser wrote:
> > I’ve volunteered to help out earlier in the thread, within constraints
> > (but rather that than to see things go and break).
>
> The main problem with sysvinit is
On Mon, 15 Oct 2018, Petter Reinholdtsen wrote:
> Note, I can with authority, as the person introducing dependency based
> boot and shutdown ordering in Debian, report that insserv were not
> introduced for parallell boot, nor for boot speed. It was introduced to
> correct broken boot and shutdow
Martin Steigerwald - 15.10.18, 17:56:
> Anyway, I will make Devuan people aware of this discussion. Let's see
> whether someone likes to cooperate.
As Evilham also pointed out, Devuan people are aware of this discussion
already:
[devuan-dev] sysvinit in debian is under threat of being dropped fo
Adam Borowski, le lun. 15 oct. 2018 18:02:37 +0200, a ecrit:
> On Mon, Oct 15, 2018 at 04:18:57PM +0200, Thorsten Glaser wrote:
> > Matthew Vernon wrote:
> > >interest/effort in getting sysvinit (and related bits) in a better state
> > >for buster, do drop me a line.
> >
> > I’ve volunteered to he
On Mon, Oct 15, 2018 at 04:18:57PM +0200, Thorsten Glaser wrote:
> Matthew Vernon wrote:
>
> >I'm aware of some work ongoing at the moment to try and improve matters
> >(currently looking at elongind, for example). If anyone's got some
>
> What’s elongind? elogind? Never heard of it…
elogind is
Svante Signell, le lun. 15 oct. 2018 17:49:23 +0200, a ecrit:
> On Mon, 2018-10-15 at 17:06 +0200, Samuel Thibault wrote:
> > It's a matter of people subscribing to the
> > pkg-sysvinit-de...@lists.alioth.debian.org list and discussing there,
> > I
> > don't see why anything heavier would be needed
On Mon, 2018-10-15 at 17:06 +0200, Samuel Thibault wrote:
>
> It's a matter of people subscribing to the
> pkg-sysvinit-de...@lists.alioth.debian.org list and discussing there,
> I
> don't see why anything heavier would be needed.
I thought alioth was no more, but maybe the mailing list remains?
Evilham, le lun. 15 oct. 2018 16:27:25 +0200, a ecrit:
> Where to now?
> At devuan-dev, Adam Sampson has suggested that the debian-bsd and
> debian-hurd communities are also very interested in keeping non-systemd
> things working,
Yes, but they aren't populated so much either, with already a lot o
Dear debian-devel,
Am 15/10/2018 um 15:20 schrieb Jonathan Dowland:
> [ re-adding TG who requested CCs in an earlier message, but has not
> set Mail-Followup-To:. You've probably missed half the conversation,
> Thorsten… ]
>
> On Mon, Oct 15, 2018 at 06:56:50AM +0200, Petter Reinholdtsen wrote:
>
On Mon, 15 Oct 2018, Jonathan Dowland wrote:
> [ re-adding TG who requested CCs in an earlier message, but has not
> set Mail-Followup-To:. You've probably missed half the conversation,
> Thorsten… ]
Thanks… will follow up on those I read up on in the web interface
(why is there no NNTP interface
On Mon, Oct 15, 2018 at 02:20:03PM +0100, Jonathan Dowland wrote:
> Is it worth interested parties reaching out to the Devuan project
> regarding person-power for sysvinit maintenance?
It's hard to discuss this with a straight face, but in any case even they
admit they don't have any person-power:
[ re-adding TG who requested CCs in an earlier message, but has not
set Mail-Followup-To:. You've probably missed half the conversation,
Thorsten… ]
On Mon, Oct 15, 2018 at 06:56:50AM +0200, Petter Reinholdtsen wrote:
I believe Andreas Henriksson is right, the packages are going to be
removed un
Holger Levsen writes:
> On Sat, Oct 13, 2018 at 06:01:43AM +0100, Ben Hutchings wrote:
>> > Has policy changed regarding support for multiple inits, or is it just that
>> > no one is maintaining the shim and sysvinit-core?
>>
>> The latter. systemd-shim has been orphaned for over 2 years, and h
On Sun, 14 Oct 2018, Andreas Henriksson wrote:
> Please note that sysvinit dependencies still have open RC bugs which
> noone is caring for.
Oof. How do I find them out? The BTS shows no RC bugs, not even
ones tagged as affects src:sysvinit, and the QA page
https://packages.qa.debian.org/s/sysvin
On Sun, Oct 14, 2018 at 10:17:11PM +0200, Thorsten Glaser wrote:
> On Sun, 14 Oct 2018, Ben Hutchings wrote:
>
> > > > > sysvinit currently has two maintainers, but they've only
> > > > > ever made one upload (over a year ago).
>
> > > Why would sysvinit need uploads? It’s largely working softw
On Sat, Oct 13, 2018 at 06:01:43AM +0100, Ben Hutchings wrote:
> > Has policy changed regarding support for multiple inits, or is it just that
> > no one is maintaining the shim and sysvinit-core?
>
> The latter. systemd-shim has been orphaned for over 2 years, and has
> RC bugs. sysvinit curre
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