hi,
just tryed
hi there,
On Tue, 2002-06-18 at 16:17, Wookey wrote:
> On Tue 18 Jun, Raphael Hertzog wrote:
> > Le Tue, Jun 18, 2002 at 09:48:28AM +0200, Andreas Schuldei crivait:
> > > * Raphael Hertzog ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [020618 09:43]:
> > > > I'm surprised that nobody in this thread menti
On Fri, Jun 21, 2002 at 03:42:33PM +0100, Wookey wrote:
> And my and other's experience of using dpkg on 16 MB Psions and 32MB ipaqs
> is that it can easily run out of ram and barf, whilst ipkg does not have
> this problem - but that's the tool - nothing to do with the file format.
>
> adjusting
On Mon 17 Jun, Matt Zimmerman wrote:
> Joey Hess wrote
> > Myself, I've long decided to wait until PDA's are up to about 64mb of
> > flash, and then just slap debian on it, but if you do the work to make it
> > fit in the current generation, I may need to reconsider that decision.
> I've been wait
On Sun 16 Jun, Matt Zimmerman wrote:
> On Sun, Jun 16, 2002 at 06:10:10PM +0100, Miah Gregory wrote:
>
> > The size of the local package database is also a concern. Will any of the
> > planned changes to dpkg address the size of the database, to make it more
> > suitable for limited resource devic
On Sun 16 Jun, Scott Dier wrote:
> Miah Gregory wrote:
>
> > Possibly.. Don't forget that such devices will also often be on the end of
> > low bandwidth links, so size really does mean everything.. :-)
>
> bullshit. I use a small notebook computer and dont seem to have issues
> having fast con
[just come to actually read this thread, rather late in the day - too many
mailing lists! Apologies for late responses]
On Sun 16 Jun, Philip Blundell wrote:
> Apparently, the original reason why the familiar people started down the
> ipkg route was that they didn't like the way .deb archives used
On Wed 19 Jun, Michael Vogt wrote:
> I can confirm what wookey says. At least emdebsys is in quite good
> shape. We use it at university for a emdebeded system project and the
> results are good.
>
> There is a problem though. The frontend relies on CML2 [1] which was part
> of kbuild 2.5 but wa
On Wed 19 Jun, Matt Zimmerman wrote:
> On Wed, Jun 19, 2002 at 01:23:35PM +0200, Michael Vogt wrote:
> > shape. We use it at university for a emdebeded system project and the
> > results are good.
> Please correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding of the emdebian
> filesystem building tools i
On Wed, Jun 19, 2002 at 01:23:35PM +0200, Michael Vogt wrote:
> shape. We use it at university for a emdebeded system project and the
> results are good.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding of the emdebian
filesystem building tools is that they use only the files which are actua
On Tue, Jun 18, 2002 at 03:17:19PM +0100, Wookey wrote:
> Yep I'm still here, and emdebian is not quite as dead as it web-pages make it
> look. There was a lot of work on emdebsys oct2001-Jan2002 to get it to quite
> a useful state. I am giving a talk on emdebsys at the UK Unix developer's
> confer
On Tue, 2002-06-18 at 15:33, The Doctor What wrote:
> * Philip Blundell ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [020616 12:19]:
> > On Sun, 2002-06-16 at 05:29, Matt Zimmerman wrote:
> > > Please contact me. I'll be placing status updates and whatever other
> > > information I gather here:
> >
> > Another project yo
On Tue, Jun 18, 2002 at 09:31:52AM -0500, The Doctor What wrote:
> I wonder if it would be worthwhile to impliment a simple FS that does
> nothing but have either directories or links in it, using some (text?)
> control file to determine where links point to.
>
> You could then alter the control f
* Matt Zimmerman ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [020618 09:14]:
> On Tue, Jun 18, 2002 at 09:42:53AM +0200, Raphael Hertzog wrote:
>
> > I'm surprised that nobody in this thread mentionned the work of
> > wookey on emdebian. It provides a packaged ARM cross compiler.
>
> To be honest, I had not planned on d
* Philip Blundell ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [020616 12:19]:
> On Sun, 2002-06-16 at 05:29, Matt Zimmerman wrote:
> > Please contact me. I'll be placing status updates and whatever other
> > information I gather here:
>
> Another project you might be interested in liaising with is GPE,
> http://gpe.hand
* Matt Zimmerman ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [020616 21:33]:
> It's the symlinky part that I want to make easier. Currently, the only way
> I see to do it is to know in advance what needs to go where, and create the
> links before calling dpkg.
I wonder if it would be worthwhile to impliment a simple FS
On Mon, Jun 17, 2002 at 05:32:31PM -0500, The Doctor What wrote:
> I was actually tempted (and may yet) to set up debian-arm on my Zaurus
> with /var/lib/dpkg being a mount point for an NFS mount of my system at
> home. This way, I have the stuff saved, but I never need it for
> day-to-day usage
On Tue 18 Jun, Raphael Hertzog wrote:
> Le Tue, Jun 18, 2002 at 09:48:28AM +0200, Andreas Schuldei crivait:
> > * Raphael Hertzog ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [020618 09:43]:
> > > I'm surprised that nobody in this thread mentionned the work of
> > > wookey on emdebian. It provides a packaged ARM cross comp
On Tue, Jun 18, 2002 at 09:42:53AM +0200, Raphael Hertzog wrote:
> I'm surprised that nobody in this thread mentionned the work of
> wookey on emdebian. It provides a packaged ARM cross compiler.
To be honest, I had not planned on doing much cross-compiling, since the
idea behind this project is
> You are able to boot by replacing these programs with (at least minimally)
> functionally equivalent versions. They are still necessary.
No, unless tr, wc, head and tail is hiding somewhere where I can't find them.
This image boots without them: http://oxtan.campus.luth.se/debian/root_fs.gz
r
Le Tue, Jun 18, 2002 at 09:48:28AM +0200, Andreas Schuldei écrivait:
> * Raphael Hertzog ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [020618 09:43]:
> > I'm surprised that nobody in this thread mentionned the work of
> > wookey on emdebian. It provides a packaged ARM cross compiler.
>
> perhaps because it is dead?
Wooke
* Raphael Hertzog ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [020618 09:43]:
> I'm surprised that nobody in this thread mentionned the work of
> wookey on emdebian. It provides a packaged ARM cross compiler.
perhaps because it is dead?
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Le Mon, Jun 17, 2002 at 05:35:11PM -0500, The Doctor What écrivait:
> Not yet. I'm a little disappointed that I can't just apt-get
> install arm-x-compile-task in debian-x86
I'm surprised that nobody in this thread mentionned the work of
wookey on emdebian. It provides a packaged ARM cross compil
* Matt Zimmerman ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [020615 23:29]:
> If:
>
> - You are interested in helping with this effort, or
Yes. I am interested. Though I am put off by not having an
emulator to try out ROM/RAM combinations prior to abusing my
hardware.
> - You own a Zaurus and could help to test the
* Matt Zimmerman ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [020616 12:55]:
> For my test installation, /var/lib/dpkg is 2.8M of du usage. It is
> interesting to note that the total length of all of the files is actually
> only 1M, or close to 1/3 of that size, so half the space could easily be
> recovered by a filesyst
In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Scott Dier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Miah Gregory wrote:
> > Possibly.. Don't forget that such devices will also often be on the end
> > of low bandwidth links, so size really does mean everything.. :-)
> bullshit. I use a small notebook computer and
On Mon, 17 Jun 2002, Magnus Ekdahl wrote:
> On Sunday 16 June 2002 22:35, Matt Zimmerman wrote:
> > head, tail, tr and wc are certainly necessary for booting. Are those the
> > ones which you replaced with asmutils?
>
> I'm able to boot without head, tail, tr and wc . If you have a spare
> filesy
On Mon, Jun 17, 2002 at 11:25:51AM +0200, Magnus Ekdahl wrote:
> On Sunday 16 June 2002 22:35, Matt Zimmerman wrote:
> > head, tail, tr and wc are certainly necessary for booting. Are those
> > the ones which you replaced with asmutils?
>
> I'm able to boot without head, tail, tr and wc . If you
On Sunday 16 June 2002 22:35, Matt Zimmerman wrote:
> head, tail, tr and wc are certainly necessary for booting. Are those the
> ones which you replaced with asmutils?
I'm able to boot without head, tail, tr and wc . If you have a spare
filesystem you can trash you could test it yourself. I have
On Sun, Jun 16, 2002 at 08:09:08PM -0400, Joey Hess wrote:
> Matt Zimmerman wrote:
> > For my test installation, /var/lib/dpkg is 2.8M of du usage. It is
> > interesting to note that the total length of all of the files is
> > actually only 1M, or close to 1/3 of that size, so half the space coul
Matt Zimmerman wrote:
> On Sun, Jun 16, 2002 at 06:10:10PM +0100, Miah Gregory wrote:
>
> > The size of the local package database is also a concern. Will any of the
> > planned changes to dpkg address the size of the database, to make it more
> > suitable for limited resource devices?
>
> For my
On Sun, 16 Jun 2002 16:17:35 -0400
"Matt Zimmerman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Sun, Jun 16, 2002 at 02:36:27PM -0500, Adam Heath wrote:
> > On Sun, 16 Jun 2002, Matt Zimmerman wrote:
> > * Optionally unpack files in-place
> > Dangerous, but would provide significant space savings for upgrad
On Sun, 16 Jun 2002 14:54:15 -0500 (CDT)
"Adam Heath" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > bash
> > A shell is essential, but why cant ash be used instead of bash, maybe
> > it should be a virtual package.
>
> Because certain maintainer scripts use bash directly, instead of ash. I
> suppose that wou
I demand that Matt Zimmerman may or may not have written...
> On Sun, Jun 16, 2002 at 10:04:46PM +0200, Magnus Ekdahl wrote:
[snip]
>>> grep
>> egrep
>> fgrep
> I would expect these to be links to grep; I wonder why they are not. You
> may want to ask the maintainer about this.
Since
On Sun, Jun 16, 2002 at 09:33:33PM +0200, Wichert Akkerman wrote:
> Previously Matt Zimmerman wrote:
> > - Packages for the software from the OPIE project[2], which is a fork of
> > TrollTech's Qtopia, and/or perhaps Qtopia itself. I'm not entirely clear
> > yet on the directions of these two
On Sun, Jun 16, 2002 at 10:04:46PM +0200, Magnus Ekdahl wrote:
> > Which packages or programs seem superfluous to you?
>
> First, by personal belief is that anything that isn't needed for booting or
> package management shouldn't be essential. Here comes a list of thing I
> think is unecesary
On Sun, Jun 16, 2002 at 02:36:27PM -0500, Adam Heath wrote:
> On Sun, 16 Jun 2002, Matt Zimmerman wrote:
>
> > http://people.debian.org/~mdz/zaurus/dpkg.html
> >
> > I'd be interested to hear your opinions about whether they would indeed be
> > useful, and how difficult they would be to implement
Miah Gregory wrote:
Possibly.. Don't forget that such devices will also often be on the end of
low bandwidth links, so size really does mean everything.. :-)
bullshit. I use a small notebook computer and dont seem to have issues
having fast connections.
It depends on the people, not the device!
> Which packages or programs seem superfluous to you?
First, by personal belief is that anything that isn't needed for booting or
package management shouldn't be essential. Here comes a list of thing I
think is unecesary for booting and installing packages. First comes the
utilities that I hav
On Sun, 16 Jun 2002, Nicholas Clark wrote:
> Experimenting with -Os I've never found it that good at making binaries much
> smaller on arm. (I think I was getting less than 1% smaller. The object
> files in question happened to be current development perl. I'm not sure if
> that makes a difference
On Mon, 17 Jun 2002, Glenn McGrath wrote:
> > ncurses-base
> > ncurses-bin
> Are these just to support dselect, should dselect be essential ?
dselect/dpkg in 1.10 have been split. dpkg 1.10 predepends on dselect 1.10,
to support upgrades.
> > e2fsprogs
> not essential for people who dont have a
In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Matt Zimmerman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 17, 2002 at 05:04:14AM +1000, Glenn McGrath wrote:
>
> > > Which packages or programs seem superfluous to you?
> > >
> > > ncurses-base
> > > ncurses-bin
> > Are these just to support dselect, should
On Sun, 16 Jun 2002, Matt Zimmerman wrote:
> On Sun, Jun 16, 2002 at 06:10:10PM +0100, Miah Gregory wrote:
>
> > The size of the local package database is also a concern. Will any of the
> > planned changes to dpkg address the size of the database, to make it more
> > suitable for limited resource
cc'd to debian-dpkg, for comment.
On Sun, 16 Jun 2002, Matt Zimmerman wrote:
> On Sun, Jun 16, 2002 at 03:34:30AM -0500, Adam Heath wrote:
>
> > However, I don't generally tinker with hardware(I'm a programmer).
> > However, I am a dpkg developer, so any patches it (archtable, mostly) can
> > be
On Sun, Jun 16, 2002 at 09:07:22PM +0200, Peter Korsgaard wrote:
> The ipkg format is described at http://handhelds.org/z/wiki/iPKG
Thanks for this reference, I've linked to it from dpkg.html.
> > "Matt" == Matt Zimmerman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> Matt>This must mean that no prer
Previously Matt Zimmerman wrote:
> - Packages for the software from the OPIE project[2], which is a fork of
> TrollTech's Qtopia, and/or perhaps Qtopia itself. I'm not entirely clear
> yet on the directions of these two projects
There is a naming conflict here, OPIE is also a one-time passwor
Previously Matt Zimmerman wrote:
> I'd be interested to hear your opinions about whether they would indeed be
> useful, and how difficult they would be to implement.
Replying to to a html file is very inconvenient so if you want proper
comments please post it as normal text to the debian-dpkg lis
On Sun, 16 Jun 2002, Matt Zimmerman wrote:
> I think this will not be a problem. Since the Zaurus divides up its 64M
> into storage and operating RAM, the user should be able to trade off some of
> one for the other.
It has 10 megs of storage, and 20-ish of ram.
> It is possible to upgrade the
On Mon, Jun 17, 2002 at 05:04:14AM +1000, Glenn McGrath wrote:
> > Which packages or programs seem superfluous to you?
> >
> > ncurses-base
> > ncurses-bin
> Are these just to support dselect, should dselect be essential ?
They are also required by bash and cfdisk. I personally could do without
On Sun, Jun 16, 2002 at 02:34:05PM -0400, Matt Zimmerman wrote:
> On Sun, Jun 16, 2002 at 07:29:22PM +0200, Magnus Ekdahl wrote:
> Which packages or programs seem superfluous to you?
>
> ncurses-base
> textutils
> bsdutils
> sed
> base-passwd
> util-linux
> ncurses-bin
> tar
> gzip
> dpkg
> base-
> "Matt" == Matt Zimmerman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
The ipkg format is described at http://handhelds.org/z/wiki/iPKG
Matt>This must mean that no prerm/postrm scripts can be used,
Matt> unless they are run from a binary package. It may mean that
Matt> there are no maintainer scripts
> Which packages or programs seem superfluous to you?
>
> ncurses-base
> ncurses-bin
Are these just to support dselect, should dselect be essential ?
> e2fsprogs
not essential for people who dont have an ext2 (or 3?) filesystem
> perl-base
just because :)
> diff
diff comes in handy, but why is
On Sun, 16 Jun 2002 13:50:54 -0400
"Matt Zimmerman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Sun, Jun 16, 2002 at 03:34:30AM -0500, Adam Heath wrote:
>
> > However, I don't generally tinker with hardware(I'm a programmer).
> > However, I am a dpkg developer, so any patches it (archtable, mostly)
> > can b
On Sun, Jun 16, 2002 at 07:29:22PM +0200, Magnus Ekdahl wrote:
> > I am interested in creating a full-featured Debian environment for the
> > Zaurus,
>
> Would this mean that you intend to reduce the number of essential
> packages?
>
> As far as I can see there is a problem with the size of the
On Sun, Jun 16, 2002 at 06:10:10PM +0100, Miah Gregory wrote:
> The size of the local package database is also a concern. Will any of the
> planned changes to dpkg address the size of the database, to make it more
> suitable for limited resource devices?
For my test installation, /var/lib/dpkg is
On Sun, Jun 16, 2002 at 03:34:30AM -0500, Adam Heath wrote:
> However, I don't generally tinker with hardware(I'm a programmer).
> However, I am a dpkg developer, so any patches it (archtable, mostly) can
> be integrated quickly.
I have dreamed up some possible dpkg enhancements which could make
On Sun, Jun 16, 2002 at 06:10:10PM +0100, Miah Gregory wrote:
> In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Matt Zimmerman
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > On Sun, Jun 16, 2002 at 05:32:42PM +0100, Miah Gregory wrote:
>
> > > I'm going to hope that you're just joking there, right?? We're talking
> > > abou
> I am interested in creating a full-featured Debian environment for the
> Zaurus,
Would this mean that you intend to reduce the number of essential packages?
As far as I can see there is a problem with the size of the essential
packages being very large and that you don't have to declare a dep
On Sun, 2002-06-16 at 05:29, Matt Zimmerman wrote:
> Please contact me. I'll be placing status updates and whatever other
> information I gather here:
Another project you might be interested in liaising with is GPE,
http://gpe.handhelds.org/. Among other things, this group is working on
a uClibc
In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Matt Zimmerman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Sun, Jun 16, 2002 at 05:32:42PM +0100, Miah Gregory wrote:
> > I'm going to hope that you're just joking there, right?? We're talking
> > about devices with severely limited amounts of ram and storage space. Y
On Sun, Jun 16, 2002 at 05:28:55PM +0100, Philip Blundell wrote:
> On Sun, 2002-06-16 at 17:19, Matt Zimmerman wrote:
> > Yes, there are quite a few of these. I hardly see the point, though, of
> > repackaging a ton of software in 'ipkg' format when we already have a
> > ton of working infrastruc
On Sun, Jun 16, 2002 at 05:32:42PM +0100, Miah Gregory wrote:
> In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Matt Zimmerman
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Yes, there are quite a few of these. I hardly see the point, though, of
> > repackaging a ton of software in 'ipkg' format when we already have a
> > t
In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Matt Zimmerman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Sun, Jun 16, 2002 at 04:59:39AM -0400, Mark Eichin wrote:
> > > source Zaurus images[0], but as far as I can tell, none of them are
> > > using the Debian package management system proper. Debian already
> >
On Sun, 2002-06-16 at 17:19, Matt Zimmerman wrote:
> Yes, there are quite a few of these. I hardly see the point, though, of
> repackaging a ton of software in 'ipkg' format when we already have a ton of
> working infrastructure and existing packages for debs. Frankly, I can't
> imagine why anyon
On Sun, Jun 16, 2002 at 04:59:39AM -0400, Mark Eichin wrote:
> > source Zaurus images[0], but as far as I can tell, none of them are
> > using the Debian package management system proper. Debian already
> > contains
>
> Don't forget to look at the iPaq distributions (using ipkg, which is as
> fa
On Sun, Jun 16, 2002 at 03:34:30AM -0500, Adam Heath wrote:
> On Sun, 16 Jun 2002, Matt Zimmerman wrote:
>
> > The base system shall fit within the internal storage provided on the
> > SL-5500 (16MB flash ROM + 64MB persistent RAM storage + main memory),
> > however, I hope to work out a mechanis
On Sun, 2002-06-16 at 05:29, Matt Zimmerman wrote:
> I am interested in creating a full-featured Debian environment for the
> Zaurus, with all the trimmings (including package management with dpkg and
> apt). There already seems to be at least one project aiming to create open
> source Zaurus imag
> source Zaurus images[0], but as far as I can tell, none of them are using
> the Debian package management system proper. Debian already contains
Don't forget to look at the iPaq distributions (using ipkg, which is
as far as I can tell a really-stripped-down dpkg-like thing...)
"familiar" is th
Hi Matt,
I own a Zaurus as well. I am very much interested in the project. I will help
with testing and, if time permits, development. Should we use the debian-arm
list or a new mailing list for coordination?
Regards,
Gerhard
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On Sun, 16 Jun 2002, Matt Zimmerman wrote:
> The base system shall fit within the internal storage provided on the
> SL-5500 (16MB flash ROM + 64MB persistent RAM storage + main memory),
> however, I hope to work out a mechanism for gracefully expanding the system
> onto CF and/or SD cards[3], to
I have recently had the good fortune of having one of these delightful
little toys come into my possession. I've run both potato (via base2_2.tgz)
and woody (via debootstrap!) chroots on it, and am completely addicted.
For those of you not familiar with the device, it is an ARM-based PDA (with
a
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