-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
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Somebody seriously needs to make a test case out of this idea. I can
just see the headline: "EvilHackerTerrorist sues Symantec over
unlawful circumvention of the content protection scheme used by his
copyrighted ScrewTheDMCA virus!"
- - Forwarded
DEAR SIR
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DRAWING AND BRAND NAMES. ABOU
"I would like to share something with you. First let me say, I'm not trying
to sell you anything (I don't like it when people do that). But, I do like
it when people share with me what "works" in their life. Well,..
I have found something that "WORKS".
Young and old, male and female, if you th
At 12:00 AM 07/31/2001 -0700, Alan wrote:
>I guess we *do* have the best government money can buy. We just were not the
>ones writing the checks...
Naahhh... You ought to be able to buy a much better government than that. :-)
That actually is part of the problem - governments writing laws abo
This is truely humorous.
As BU said earlier "You overestimate the average contextual awareness level of the
typical cypherpunk reader I think."
He's right.
At 11:19 PM -0700 7/31/01, Tim May wrote:
>At 10:19 PM -0700 7/31/01, Black Unicorn wrote:
>>I've seen more of this in the white collar
Alan wrote:
>
> On Friday 27 July 2001 11:13, Steven M. Bellovin wrote:
> > In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Declan McCullagh writes:
> > >One of those -- and you can thank groups like ACM for this, if my
> > >legislative memory is correct -- explicitly permits encryption
> > >research. You can ar
Black Unicorn wrote:
>If I were a duly appointed law enforcement official I could arrest you for
the
>kind of shoes you were wearing. You'll have recourse eventually, but it will
>be after a 24 hour (or so) stay in the pokey and posting bail and hiring an
>attorney, and
Yes, yes, and the cl
Black Unicorn wrote:
> A legal education is the ultimate dose of practical cynicism. It
> quickly becomes apparent not that the law isn't perfect, but that it
> is often pretty damn screwed up. American jurisprudence is about
> _fairness of process_, not justice, or right, or wrong.
Come now, s
Title: Your Membership Exchange, #440
Your Membership Exchange, Issue #440
August 1, 2001
Your place to exchange ideas, ask questions, swap links, and share your skills!
__
On Tue, 31 Jul 2001, Tim May wrote:
> First, you will of course find that no one but yourself will check
> the "yahoogroups" ghetto site. (If you are not familiar with the
Possible, but at least I've got an archived list of cpunx-related
material, which I can reference later (with other newssour
Are you currently using a permission based Opt-in email list?
Give us a try.
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At 01:31 AM 8/1/01 -0700, Petro wrote:
>
>>I say this is bullshit. By your vague (no plausible cites, just some
1L literatlisms), whispering is spoliation. Failure to archive tape
recordings of conversations is spoliation. Use of encryption is
spoliation. Drawing the curtains is spoliation.
>
> No
Gabriel Rocha wrote:
> - Forwarded message from James Simmons <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> -
[...]
> Virus writers can use the DMCA in a perverse way. Because
>computer viruses are programs, they can be copyrighted just like a
>book, song, or movie. If a virus writer were to u
On Tue, Jul 31, 2001 at 07:15:29PM -0700, Tim May wrote:
> You talk a lot about "courts not being amused" but I can find no
> evidence that such laws exist. Nor can I find any case where a Mafia
> don was prosecuted for "spoliating" a future prosecution by
> whispering.
>
> Do you have such ex
I've just created a dedicated email newsticker for cypherpunk related bit
of news at (evil) Yahoogroups. It's not for discussion, it's for dumping
pointers to bits of news (or, better, the bits of news verbatim).
So, if you come across a bit of relevant news, post it there, not to
cpunx.
Here's
NOTE: This one-time message is in response to your online ad. You
are NOT on a mailing list and you will NOT receive any more messages.
Please send more details about your ad/offer.
---
On Tue, Jul 31, 2001 at 09:36:27PM -0700, Black Unicorn wrote:
> Oh great.
>
> Now every news story on this thing will be echoed by Mr. Choate directly to
> the list without any introductory commentary.
Yes. Don't feed the beast, or encourage him. That is not the path to
cypherpunk salvation.
-
SENATE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE Packaging Antitrust, Business Rights, and
Competition Subcommittee hearing on "S.1233, the Product Package Protection
Act: Keeping Offensive Material Out of our Cereal Boxes." Location: 226
Dirksen Senate Office Building. 2 p.m. Contact: 202-224-7703
http://www.sena
To add to what Ken wrote:
* DMCA includes a research exemption that would cover this if
virus writer was known and could be contacted, and probably even
otherwise
* If not know, that's probably because he's violating the law
and, as a felon facing prosecution in multiple jurisdictions,
won't be
http://slashdot.org/articles/01/08/01/0051203.shtml
--
--
Nature and Nature's laws lay hid in night:
God said, "Let Tesla be", and all was light.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2001/08/010801082047.htm
James Choate
Product Certification - Operating Systems
Staff Engineer
512-436-1062
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> From: Black Unicorn[SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>
> I also made some speculative suggestions about what encrypting such data
> might
> look like in a test case extending the facts to be a bit more edgy just to
> see
> where the limits were. Such a test case (of which there are none to my
At 08:06 AM 8/1/01 -0400, Declan McCullagh wrote:
>* If not know, that's probably because he's violating the law
>and, as a felon facing prosecution in multiple jurisdictions,
>won't be in a hurry to file lawsuits
>
Remember that one man's remote administration tool is another's
trojan.
A versio
--
Dark Unicorn:
> > Not a particularly useful answer and not necessarily justifiable on the
> > part of the court. I think eventually a better answer would have to be
> > produced, one that justified the censorship. We're back to what
> > originally struck me as odd, and wrong, about this ite
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/54/20766.html
James Choate
Product Certification - Operating Systems
Staff Engineer
512-436-1062
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.sciam.com/news/080101/2.html
James Choate
Product Certification - Operating Systems
Staff Engineer
512-436-1062
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
At 9:18 AM -0700 8/1/01, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> --
>On 31 Jul 2001, at 11:53, Black Unicorn wrote:
>> I wanted to make sure to correct the common misconception among
>> cypherpunks that you can just thumb your nose at a court with
>> impunity.
>
>And I would like to correct the common
Today, Snowhite was turning 18. The 7 Dwarfs always where very educated and
polite with Snowhite. When they go out work at mornign, they promissed a
*huge* surprise. Snowhite was anxious. Suddlently, the door open, and the Seven
Dwarfs enter...
<>
At 12:00 PM +0100 8/1/01, Ken Brown wrote:
>How the DMCA affects this I don't know. It goes way beyond the
>old-established ideas of copyright, and into the dodgy depths of trade
>secrets. It is one thing to say "this is mine, you can't use it" and
>quite another to say "this is mine, you aren't
--
On 31 Jul 2001, at 11:53, Black Unicorn wrote:
> I wanted to make sure to correct the common misconception among
> cypherpunks that you can just thumb your nose at a court with
> impunity.
And I would like to correct the common misconception spread by lawyers that there are
magic legal f
Tim May <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> protect against ROT-13 and Pig Latin being DMCA-protected. Utterly
Isn't ROT-13 what Adobe used in the eBook? Isn't that what Dmitry
Skylarov was arrested for circumventing?
I'd say it doesn't matter how strong the cryptography is. What
matters is whose po
Tim May wrote:
> It is utterly irresponsible for
> you to discuss this on a list
> frequented by narcs and informants
> and even prosecutors.
No Tim, what is utterly irresponsible is to make bellicose threats on this
list about what your response will be if masked ninjas invade your home. If
th
Tim May wrote:
> The "law" part is about the above,
> and exhortations by the lawyers
> here (5, by my count) about what
> one mustn't do, how courts will
> react, the need to be scrupulously
> legal in all of one's actions, etc.
>
> "Laws of mathematics, not men."
>
> We risk becoming just a pal
At 10:17 AM -0700 8/1/01, Sandy Sandfort wrote:
>It is on this second point that I had a very disappointing interaction with
>Tim at a physical Cypherpunks meeting some years ago. Tim was carrying a
>concealed knife that did not comply with California's concealed carry laws.
>I mentioned this to
Apologies if this is a repeat, I never received it.
> -Original Message-
> From: Aimee Farr [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 9:35 PM
> To: Black Unicorn
> Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: Spoliation, escrows, courts, pigs. Was: Re: DOJ jails
> reporter, Ashcro
At 1:31 AM -0700 8/1/01, Petro wrote:
>This is truely humorous.
>
>As BU said earlier "You overestimate the average contextual
>awareness level of the typical cypherpunk reader I think."
>
>He's right.
Coming from you (which one of you is Petro and which one is Reese?),
quite a compliment.
>
On Wed, 1 Aug 2001, Declan McCullagh wrote:
> SENATE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE Packaging Antitrust, Business Rights, and
> Competition Subcommittee hearing on "S.1233, the Product Package Protection
> Act: Keeping Offensive Material Out of our Cereal Boxes." Location: 226
> Dirksen Senate Office Bui
On Wed, 1 Aug 2001, Sandy Sandfort wrote:
> 1) "Cypherpunks write code." This metaphorical admonition tells us to make
> the laws irrelevant by outrunning them with technology. I couldn't agree
> more. I don't see much benefit in asking the nice lawmakers to do fuck us
> so badly, please. Be
> Alan Olsen[SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] wrote:
>
>
> On Wed, 1 Aug 2001, Declan McCullagh wrote:
>
> > SENATE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE Packaging Antitrust, Business Rights, and
> > Competition Subcommittee hearing on "S.1233, the Product Package
> Protection
> > Act: Keeping Offensive Material Out of
I keep seeing words like "bona fide" and "legitimate" used as modifiers
for "cryptographic researcher." The DMCA states :
(3)(B) whether the person is engaged in a legitimate course of study, is
employed, or is appropriately trained or experienced, in the field of
encryption technology; and
Isn'
> Alan Olsen[SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] wrote:
>
>
> On Wed, 1 Aug 2001, Declan McCullagh wrote:
>
> > SENATE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE Packaging Antitrust, Business Rights, and
> > Competition Subcommittee hearing on "S.1233, the Product Package
> Protection
> > Act: Keeping Offensive Material Out of
Seems like a regular herd of senior FBI guys wind up at MBNA when
they're ready to amass some capitol for retirement. What are the origins
of the company?
http://www.cptryon.org/compassion/spr99/fbi.html
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RuMills/message/367
http://www.lineofduty.com/blotter/mar00
James A. Donald wrote:
The basic problem with any legal incantation is that at some point
you must explain to the authorities: "My actions were legal for
this reason and that reason", explaining in inconveniently great
detail what you are doing, and their response your complicated and
highly inf
The time for confidences is over. Lawyers are considering
a change in their ethics about ratting on clients (see NY Times
today); priests are ratting about criminal confessions; reporters
are ratting on interviewees, psychiatrists are ratting patients.
DoJ and the courts are squeezing all the priv
On Mon, 30 Jul 2001, Steve Schear wrote:
> At 01:29 PM 7/30/2001 -0500, Jim Choate wrote:
> >http://writ.news.findlaw.com/commentary/20010730_chander.html
>
> It will be very interesting if Napster decides to take Mr. Chander's
> suggestion and ask the court to force copyright holder's back to
At 12:14 PM -0700 8/1/01, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>I keep seeing words like "bona fide" and "legitimate" used as modifiers
>for "cryptographic researcher." The DMCA states :
>
>(3)(B) whether the person is engaged in a legitimate course of study, is
>employed, or is appropriately trained or exper
Tim May wrote:
> I know of many arguments that a
> knife can be gotten into a fight
> and used effectively _faster_
> than a gun can, especially in
> very close quarters.
Maybe yes, maybe no, but why not carry both then? A legal knife and a
illegal (misdemeanor) gun rather than just your illega
Eugene Leitl wrote:
> Feds enter houses for whatever
> reasons they deem appropriate
> to invent...
Then my comments won't affect their actions one way or the other.
> Pointing out possible targets
> makes no damn reason at all...
Tim already is a target. My minor comments do nothing to chang
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
August 1, 2001
MEDIA ADVISORY
Senators Bennett and Kyl
Postpone Thursday News Conference
WASHINGTON, DC U.S. Senators Robert Bennett (R-UT) and Jon Kyl
(R-AZ) will
postpone tomorrow's news conference on legislation to facilitate joint federal
and privat
At 02:52 PM 8/1/01 -0400, Trei, Peter wrote:
>Politicians have too much trouble justifying their
>existence to let a chance like this slip through.
Hahahaha. Actually, I'm starting to feel sorry for politicans, especially
the folks in Congress. Think of it: They have such crude tools available t
--
On 31 Jul 2001, at 12:22, Black Unicorn wrote:
> Not being intimately familiar with the spec of freenet I can't
> really comment on that aspect or what a court will consider
> "impossible." What will not amuse a court is the appearance of
> an ex ante concealment or disclosure in anticipat
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--
> > I have never heard of such a law.
Black Unicorn:
> If you know you've committed some kind of weapons violations or some such and
> you have reason to believe you have come to the attention of the authorities,
> burning the record of those bulk AK-74 purchases might be a bad idea- if y
At 3:34 AM -0700 8/1/01, Subcommander Bob wrote:
>At 01:31 AM 8/1/01 -0700, Petro wrote:
>>
>>>I say this is bullshit. By your vague (no plausible cites, just some
>1L literatlisms), whispering is spoliation. Failure to archive tape
>recordings of conversations is spoliation. Use of encryption is
--
Tim Starr:
> > > Show me exactly which law I am breaking by placing some of
> > > my documents or files in a place even I cannot "turn over
> > > all copies from."
> > >
> > > I have never heard of such a law.
Black Unicorn:
> > If you know you've committed some kind of weapons violati
James A. Donald wrote:
> In the case of Black Unicorn, it
> appears to me he was a lawyer who
> used to be in the business of
> finding loopholes in laws.
That's what ALL good lawyers do. Think of it as hacking the law.
By the way, Tim May's secret identity is not "Tim Starr."
S a n d y
--
"Trei, Peter
> > Cleansing disks and memory of keys and plaintext isn't done
> > to prevent some hypothetical court from looking at evidence;
> > there are good, legally unremarkable reasons to do so, which
> > are regarded as good hygiene and 'best practice' in the
> > industry.
Black Uni
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--
On 1 Aug 2001, at 14:33, Trei, Peter wrote:
> No, Adobe did not use ROT13. They were quite a bit better than that
Not significantly better. Same basic algorithm and weakness as
ROT13
--digsig
James A. Donald
6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
n1bw14u4EICH
http://www.law.com/cgi-bin/gx.cgi/AppLogic+FTContentServer?pagename=law/View&c=Article&cid=ZZZV7P5HVPC&live=true&cst=1&pc=3&pa=0&s=News&ExpIgnore=true&showsummary=0
talks about the use of the Communications Decency Act to defend a private
individual. (Sorry about the absurdly long URL; for a shor
--
On 1 Aug 2001, at 14:54, John Young wrote:
> The time for confidences is over. Lawyers are considering
> a change in their ethics about ratting on clients (see NY Times
> today); priests are ratting about criminal confessions; reporters
> are ratting on interviewees, psychiatrists are ratti
That's Right! We're Giving It Away!
Your download instructions are below:
To protect you from viruses we have provided you with a html email.
To view this HTML email, either click-on or copy/paste
into your web-browser this link:
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-
> The prosecutors who read this list must be chortling.
Chortling is a form of laughter. Prosecutors, like Ukrainian customs
agents, have had their sense of humor surgically removed, so I doubt
they chortle very much.
On Wed, 1 Aug 2001, Rick Smith at Secure Computing wrote:
> I had suggested that a large number of crypto researchers take the
> proactive (or rather, prophylactic) step of informing *all* vendors of copy
> protection that the researchers are interested in studying the encryption
> used in the
I had suggested that a large number of crypto researchers take the
proactive (or rather, prophylactic) step of informing *all* vendors of copy
protection that the researchers are interested in studying the encryption
used in their products. The notion of this would be that such an act by a
lar
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