--
> David Honig wrote:
>
> > No one forces a farmer to the city to look for an industrial job.
On 22 Oct 2001, at 12:21, Ken Brown wrote:
> In general, no. But it happens now and again. Governments
certainly did
> in (say) the old Soviet Union
I do not think so.
Lenin surrounded the citi
On Wed, 24 Oct 2001, F. Marc de Piolenc wrote:
> Jim Choate wrote:
> >
> > On Mon, 22 Oct 2001, F. Marc de Piolenc wrote:
> >
> > > Elementary - fair is whatever the parties in interest agree to. Period.
> >
> > 'agree' is synonymous with 'free' in this case. All you're doing is
> > playing w
On Tue, 23 Oct 2001, Jim Choate wrote:
> What does it mean to 'agree'?
or, more to the point, what does "is" mean?
--
Yours,
J.A. Terranson
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
If Governments really want us to behave like civilized human beings, they
should give serious consideration towards setting a better
On Mon, 22 Oct 2001, Eric Murray wrote:
> On Mon, Oct 22, 2001 at 08:44:09AM -0700, Tim May wrote:
>
> > "Sure, unions are good" is not at all obvious to me. Why do you claim
> > this?
> >
> > Most labor unions are simply rent-seeking clubs designed to cement the
> > status quo. Teacher's un
Harmon Seaver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>StarOffice is a lot better. Opensource, for one thing (although I
> know the Mac version was dropped and the OS X version not quite ready yet,
> but the linux version rocks), and doesn't get macroviri in any version.
> Again, why would you use some
Jim Choate wrote:
>
> On Mon, 22 Oct 2001, F. Marc de Piolenc wrote:
>
> > Elementary - fair is whatever the parties in interest agree to. Period.
>
> 'agree' is synonymous with 'free' in this case. All you're doing is
> playing word games and hand waving.
>
> What does it mean to 'agree'?
On Tue, 23 Oct 2001, David Honig wrote:
> As the universe said to Thoreau's man, "So?"
>
> Adapt or die.
Exactly, but pitching 'man against man' as synonymous as 'universe against
man' is a disservice. They're not the same thing. One is a 'free market'
and the other is the opposite.
Of course
On Mon, 22 Oct 2001, F. Marc de Piolenc wrote:
> Elementary - fair is whatever the parties in interest agree to. Period.
'agree' is synonymous with 'free' in this case. All you're doing is
playing word games and hand waving.
What does it mean to 'agree'? Is an agreement that one can backout o
On Mon, 22 Oct 2001, Sandy Sandfort wrote:
> Inchoate gets it wrong again. This is where that remedial reading course
> would come in handy.
>
> He wrote:
>
> > The very basis of free market economies,
> > one is rewarded FAIRLY for their efforts.
>
> No, quite clearly the basis of free mark
On Mon, 22 Oct 2001, Sampo Syreeni wrote:
> On Sat, 20 Oct 2001, Jim Choate wrote:
>
> >> * "Low wage" compared to _what_?
> >
> >What it takes to have reasonable living standards and sufficient resources
> >to help ones children do better than themselves.
>
> Reasonable? Well, compared to dyi
On Mon, 22 Oct 2001, Ken Brown wrote:
> David Honig wrote:
>
> > No one forces a farmer to the city to look for an industrial job.
>
> In general, no.
Bull, the people who don't purchase his goods at a price point he can
sustain himself do in fact force him into other lines of work. 'Supply a
Tim May wrote:
> On Monday, October 22, 2001, at 11:05 PM, Harmon Seaver wrote:
> > Ish! I'm getting bummed with NS, but wouldn't use IE on a bet. Why
> > use a
> > virus magnet?
>
> The virii are typically executables for x86/Windows machines, not Macs.
> You said you were using a Mac, so w
Tim May wrote:
> On Monday, October 22, 2001, at 01:38 PM, Harmon Seaver wrote:
>
> > Hmm, now that is bizarre. Anybody have any idea why Netscape does
> > that sometimes? And not others? It looks fine when I hit the send button
>
> Does _what_?
>
> It would help if you gave an example of wh
> Do they avail themselves of modern medicine when they exceed what they can
> do with 19th century methods? [serious question]
The group that lives in our area will seek treatment, if absolutely
necessary
I guess I should probably point out that there are many Amish "sects" each
with differen
At 10:24 PM 10/22/01 -0500, Neil Johnson wrote:
>My father in-law makes some extra dough by converting modern power tools
>(Delta table saws, belt sanders, and lathes) to run of a central drive
>shaft so the Amish in our area can build furniture. Evidently it's "kosher"
>to use a centrally loca
s for emergency purposes (or
drive to nearby store to use a phone booth to call relatives, etc.).
So much for being "independent".
- Original Message -
From: "Harmon Seaver" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, October 22, 2001 6:07 PM
On Mon, 22 Oct 2001, Tim May wrote:
> You must be the only remaining user of NS (for either the Mac or
> Windows). Everyone I know gave up on NS 5 and moved on to IE. It's not
> perfect, but it's not buggy like "AOLscape" is.
>
> IE 5.1 is pretty good on OS X, as is OmniWeb.
Try Opera: Fast,
At 06:28 PM 10/22/01 -0700, Karsten M. Self wrote:
>
>Better yet: energy can't be replicated.
>
True, but:
Get yourself a breeder reactor, and you can sell the fuel you make
as you sell the power you make.
On Monday, October 22, 2001, at 01:38 PM, Harmon Seaver wrote:
> Hmm, now that is bizarre. Anybody have any idea why Netscape does
> that sometimes? And not others? It looks fine when I hit the send button
Does _what_?
It would help if you gave an example of what you're talking about.
> -
on Mon, Oct 22, 2001 at 04:58:54PM -0700, David Honig ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
wrote:
> At 01:17 PM 10/22/01 -0700, Steve Schear wrote:
> >
> >One of the great long term hopes for nanotechnology is the
> >"cornucopia" or StarTrek replicator, a device which can "manufacture"
> >from raw materials and in
Harmon Seaver wrote:
> Sure [with regard to periodic starvation],
> but for the most part, they did alright,
> else we would not be here.
Tell that to the 7th kine. In reality, subsistence (this word means
something) farmers were mostly chronically malnourished--even in the good
times--and died
on Mon, Oct 22, 2001 at 05:39:08PM -0400, Declan McCullagh ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> Now if only some handy, self-effacing volunteer would come along and
> repost your ill-formatted message wrapped at 72 columns, perhaps with
> a severe admonition about the proper forms of netiquette, my day
>
Steve Furlong wrote:
> Your theory about the ag schools and county agents and such may be
> right; I don't know enough to comment on them.
>
The best example I can give is the Amish. They *don't* send their sons to ag
school (don't even educate them past 7th grade actually) and don't liste
Harmon Seaver wrote:
> Of course you're ignoring the fact that
> sometimes the reason that they are
> "starving on their own retched little
> plots of land." is because of NAFTA and
> huge multinational corporations importing
> so much US factory farmed corn and other
> ag products into that coun
Harmon Seaver wrote:
>
> Steve Furlong wrote:
>
> > Then let them. A self-sufficient subsistence farmer won't be bothered by
> > the trade his neighbors are carrying out. [1] His farm can be a
> > neolithic bubble as the world progresses.
>
> What? You're talking nonsense here. Of course
Now if only some handy, self-effacing volunteer would come along and
repost your ill-formatted message wrapped at 72 columns, perhaps with
a severe admonition about the proper forms of netiquette, my day
would be complete.
-Declan
On Mon, Oct 22, 2001 at 03:38:41PM -0500, Harmon Seaver wrote:
>
On 22 Oct 2001, at 13:17, Steve Schear wrote:
> One of the great long term hopes for nanotechnology is the
> "cornucopia" or StarTrek replicator, a device which can "manufacture"
> from raw materials and information a broad variety of consumables and
> hard goods. If it ever does come about and
On Mon, 22 Oct 2001, David Honig wrote:
>Sure. But unions work to make membership *compulsory*. They have other
>legal privledges.
What can you say? People rent-seek. That's an axiom which also goes by the
name of "rationality". So the problem is not the union, but the
legislators and their bac
On Mon, Oct 22, 2001 at 12:35:21AM -0500, Jim Choate wrote:
> that their efforts are rewarded with an equitable share of the profits
> their efforts created. The very basis of free market economies, one is
It's remarkable to see such contradictory views side-by-side and
called "free market econo
At 11:09 PM 10/22/01 +0300, Sampo Syreeni wrote:
>On Mon, 22 Oct 2001, Tim May wrote:
>
>>"Sure, unions are good" is not at all obvious to me. Why do you claim
>>this?
>
>When they're not given special privileges, they are a useful tool for
>market awareness and employee side organization.
Sure.
At 01:25 PM 10/22/01 -0500, Harmon Seaver wrote:
> Of course you're ignoring the fact that sometimes the reason that they
>are "starving on their own retched little plots of land." is because of NAFTA
>and huge multinational corporations importing so much US factory farmed corn
>and other ag
Hmm, now that is bizarre. Anybody have any idea why Netscape does
that sometimes? And not others? It looks fine when I hit the send button
-- then gets trashed. I've got line space set at 72, it's supposed to go
text only, no html, but it's got the same trashed formatting in the copy
that goe
On Mon, 22 Oct 2001, Harmon Seaver wrote:
>Of course you're ignoring the fact that sometimes the reason that they
>are "starving on their own retched little plots of land." is because of
>NAFTA and huge multinational corporations importing so much US factory
>farmed corn and other ag products int
On Mon, 22 Oct 2001, Tim May wrote:
>The Econ prize was only established in the 70s, and now the prize
>committee is reaching down deeper into the ranks.
A fun story I heard: a member of the Swedish Academy is said to have
resigned over Milton Friedman getting a Nobel. The reason: Friedman's
the
At 02:49 PM 10/22/2001 -0400, Steve Furlong wrote:
>Harmon Seaver wrote:
>
> >Of course you're ignoring the fact that sometimes the reason
> that they
> > are "starving on their own retched little plots of land." is because of
> NAFTA
> > and huge multinational corporations importing so
On Mon, 22 Oct 2001, Tim May wrote:
>"Sure, unions are good" is not at all obvious to me. Why do you claim
>this?
When they're not given special privileges, they are a useful tool for
market awareness and employee side organization. Corporations can be seen
as the employer side one -- if there's
Steve Furlong wrote:
> Then let them. A self-sufficient subsistence farmer won't be bothered by
> the trade his neighbors are carrying out. [1] His farm can be a
> neolithic bubble as the world progresses.
What? You're talking nonsense here. Of course they make part of their living
selling
On Mon, Oct 22, at 10:27AM, Tim May wrote:
| This is one of the problems with the whole "Economics" prize. There's
| not even a prize in _mathematics_, fer chrissake, so why one in
| _economics_? Alfred Nobel certainly did not endow an economics prize.
| (The econ prize gets its
Harmon Seaver wrote:
>Of course you're ignoring the fact that sometimes the reason that they
> are "starving on their own retched little plots of land." is because of NAFTA
> and huge multinational corporations importing so much US factory farmed corn
> and other ag products into that cou
Sandy Sandfort wrote:
> Yeah, the "sweatshop"
> workers' choices are lousy, but they have, in fact, made their choice to
> improve their lives by working in the "sweatshops" as opposed to starving on
> their own retched little plots of land. Good for them.
Of course you're ignoring the
On Mon, Oct 22, 2001 at 08:44:09AM -0700, Tim May wrote:
> "Sure, unions are good" is not at all obvious to me. Why do you claim
> this?
>
> Most labor unions are simply rent-seeking clubs designed to cement the
> status quo. Teacher's unions in the U.S. are a prime example: once the
> union
On Monday, October 22, 2001, at 10:09 AM, Gabriel Rocha wrote:
> On Mon, Oct 22, at 04:58PM, Julian Assange wrote:
> | This years Nobel for Economics won by George A. Akerlof, A. Michael
> | Spence and Joseph E. Stiglitz "for their analysis of markets with
> | assymetric informatio
On Mon, Oct 22, at 04:58PM, Julian Assange wrote:
| This years Nobel for Economics won by George A. Akerlof, A. Michael
| Spence and Joseph E. Stiglitz "for their analysis of markets with
| assymetric information" is typical.
The Nobel priye was won by people who published ideas
On Monday, October 22, 2001, at 06:03 AM, Sampo Syreeni wrote:
>
> Sure, unions are good and using coercion to stop them from coming into
> being is bad. But that only applies as long as unions are granted no
> legal
> status apart from other voluntary organizations, and participating in a
> stri
> I'm actually surprised to see Steve launch into a critique of laissez-faire
> capitalism here on cypherpunks, of all places. One can admit that
> globalization has ill effects (mostly, bricks through windows of Starbucks
> thrown by bored, upper-middle-class, college-age protesters), certainl
On Sun, 21 Oct 2001, Declan McCullagh wrote:
> To argue against people voluntarily entering into market-based transactions
> with each other is so a-economical and contrary to cypherpunk philosophies*
> -- wlel, I just don't think it's worth taking the time to go any further in
> a response.
On Sun, 21 Oct 2001, Tim May wrote:
> We should "close down" the horrible sweatshops in Asia, India, South
> America, and other hellholes. (Africa is not counted because they are
> below sweat shop standards.)
Nonsense. What we should do is bring them under rule of law and ensure
that their e
On Sun, 21 Oct 2001 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> --
> On 20 Oct 2001, at 16:31, Jim Choate wrote:
> > What it takes to have reasonable living standards and
> > sufficient resources to help ones children do better than
> > themselves. The reality is that these sweatshops do exist,
> > that t
On Sunday, October 21, 2001, at 09:03 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> --
> On 20 Oct 2001, at 16:31, Jim Choate wrote:
>> What it takes to have reasonable living standards and
>> sufficient resources to help ones children do better than
>> themselves. The reality is that these sweatshops do ex
--
On 20 Oct 2001, at 16:31, Jim Choate wrote:
> What it takes to have reasonable living standards and
> sufficient resources to help ones children do better than
> themselves. The reality is that these sweatshops do exist,
> that they do exploit the workers, and that they are
> specifical
At 10:02 PM 10/21/2001 -0700, Declan McCullagh wrote:
>I'm actually surprised to see Steve launch into a critique of
>laissez-faire capitalism here on cypherpunks, of all places. One can admit
>that globalization has ill effects (mostly, bricks through windows of
>Starbucks thrown by bored, upp
I'm actually surprised to see Steve launch into a critique of laissez-faire
capitalism here on cypherpunks, of all places. One can admit that
globalization has ill effects (mostly, bricks through windows of Starbucks
thrown by bored, upper-middle-class, college-age protesters), certainly.
But
ading, spelling AND economics
courses.
S a n d y
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On
> Behalf Of Jim Choate
> Sent: 20 October, 2001 16:07
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: Retribution not enough
>
>
> On Sat, 2
On Sat, 20 Oct 2001, David Honig wrote:
> \begin{asbestos}
> In a centrally-ruled (statist) society some elites decide what *should*
> make *others* happy. And forces everyone to pay for it.
> Not only doomed in reality, but immoral.
> \end{}
This isn't 'government' (statist or otherwise), it
On Sat, 20 Oct 2001, Sandy Sandfort wrote:
> More Inchoate reasoning. Jimbo wrote:
>
> > The reality is that these sweatshops do
> > exist, that they do exploit the workers...
>
> Gee, I wonder why these workers chose to be exploited instead of taking a
> job somewhere else in their benighted
On Sat, 20 Oct 2001, Tim May wrote:
> Talking about "low wage sweat shop jobs" indicates profound confusion on
> your part.
>
> Sorry to be so blunt, but this is the way it is. Henry Hazlitt wrote a
> good book on basic economics.
>
> I doubt I can convince you in a few paragraphs, but consi
On Saturday, October 20, 2001, at 01:17 PM, Steve Schear wrote:
> At 01:42 PM 10/20/2001 -0400, Declan McCullagh wrote:
>> On Fri, Oct 19, 2001 at 05:35:53PM -0700, Steve Schear wrote:
>> > The direction of all recent administrations has been to expand
>> > globalization (i.e., interdependency) t
More Inchoate reasoning. Jimbo wrote:
> The reality is that these sweatshops do
> exist, that they do exploit the workers...
Gee, I wonder why these workers chose to be exploited instead of taking a
job somewhere else in their benighted non-capitalist countries where the
opportunities were bett
At 01:17 PM 10/20/01 -0700, Steve Schear wrote:
>At 01:42 PM 10/20/2001 -0400, Declan McCullagh wrote:
>>On Fri, Oct 19, 2001 at 05:35:53PM -0700, Steve Schear wrote:
>> > The direction of all recent administrations has been to expand
>> > globalization (i.e., interdependency) thus increasing econ
On Fri, Oct 19, 2001 at 05:35:53PM -0700, Steve Schear wrote:
> The direction of all recent administrations has been to expand
> globalization (i.e., interdependency) thus increasing economic risks and
> narrowing diplomatic choices. In the short term, and we have no idea what
When I speak of
At 05:24 PM 10/19/2001 -0400, someone wrote:
>Retribution will satisfy our need for justice, but it won't make us safer
>from terrorism.
>
>The terrorists have told us why they attacked America. There are three
>reasons. Hint: it's not because we're wealthy and good.
If you read the CP archiv
61 matches
Mail list logo
