I agree that the experience is interesting in itself.
I also agree that it's hard to draw any conclusion
from it :) Running the game to the end would probably
give near 0% win for the AMAF bot.
Running the 5k bot against the 100K bot is certainly
something you would like to do if you were
When thinking about the apparent strength loss, I came up with a
potential theory: consistency. With more simulations, noise has less
of an impact. I'm going to guess that the known bias of AMAF leads to
blunder that is played more consistently. Bots with fewer simulations
would make the bl
In the computer-Go event of Clermont-Ferrand,
MoGo played four 9x9 games, plus blitz games,
against Motoki Noguchi (chinese rules, komi 7.5);
the result is a draw - the games are presented and discussed in
http://www.lri.fr/~teytaud/crClermont/cr.pdf
Best regards,
Olivier
_
On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 12:20 PM, Jason House
wrote:
> When thinking about the apparent strength loss, I came up with a potential
> theory: consistency. With more simulations, noise has less of an impact. I'm
> going to guess that the known bias of AMAF leads to blunder that is played
> more consi
In message
, Olivier
Teytaud writes
>In the computer-Go event of Clermont-Ferrand,
>MoGo played four 9x9 games, plus blitz games,
>against Motoki Noguchi (chinese rules, komi 7.5);
>the result is a draw - the games are presented and discussed in
>http://www.lri.fr/~teytaud/crClermont/cr.pdf
Than
Thank you for the results. Thank you for providing a machine and letting
Many Faces participate, even though I could not travel to Japan.
Is it true that the final was a single elimination tournament, and not a
Swiss tournament? It seems that Many Faces never played Fudo Go. In future
tournamen
On Mon, 2008-12-15 at 17:30 -0500, Weston Markham wrote:
> Out of 3637 matches using 5k playouts, jrefgo won (i.e., was ahead
> after 10 moves, as estimated by gnugo) 1688 of them. (46.4%)
> Out of 2949 matches using 100k playouts, jrefgo won 785. (26.6%)
>
> It appears clear to me that increasi
Official results (only Japanese right now) are at:
http://jsb.cs.uec.ac.jp/~igo/2008/result.html (first day)
http://jsb.cs.uec.ac.jp/~igo/2008/result2.html (second day; final)
1. Crazy Stone (invited, first seed)
2. Fudo Go
3. Many Faces of Go
4. Katsunari(second seed)
5. Aya (fourth
If you are using Outlook Express or a similar email
client, you can just right-click on the link and
choose "Save Target As..." to save the whole PDF file on
your hard disk first, then open the PDF file. This will
solve the viewing problem with IE or whatever.
Thanks for the nice report anyway.
>
>
> Thank you for writing this very interesting report. But it's a 40Mb pdf
> file, my Internet Explorer can't handle it at all, and my FireFox only
> with difficulty. A more accessible version, perhaps without the
> high-resolution pictures, might reach more readers.
>
Sorry for that :-)
htt
dave.de...@planet.nl wrote:
Also, a 4p is not a 7p. The difference should be about one stone. 4p is
equivalent to 8d EGF.
I wish people would stop spreading such incorrect information. The
correlation between professional ranks and playing strength is quite
bad, and EGF 7dans are not, general
In message ,
Olivier Teytaud writes
Thank you for writing this very interesting report. But it's a 40Mb
pdf
file, my Internet Explorer can't handle it at all, and my FireFox
only
with difficulty. A more accessible version, perhaps without the
high-resolution pictures, might reach more r
> If you find a Japanese 7p who can give a Korean 1p 2 stones and win, I
> will eat my hat...
No one mentioned Korean professionals. But, as far as I know, a Japanese
7p should be able to give a Japanese 1p 2 stones and win 50% of the
time. Roughly.
Darren
--
Darren Cook, Software Researcher/D
On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 5:47 PM, Don Dailey wrote:
> Is Jrefgo the pure version that does not use tricks like the futures
> map? If you use things like that, all bets are off - I can't be sure
> this is not negatively scalable.
I don't know, although I was under the impression that I had
downlo
On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 7:34 PM, Weston Markham
wrote:
> And I believe that current
> Monte Carlo methods only really manage to avoid the very worst of the
> bad moves, regardless of how many playouts they run.
Um, perhaps I should qualify that as "pure" Monte Carlo, meaning
without any form of t
Weston Markham wrote:
I say 100K+ because I didn't set it to a specific number, just run as
many as it could within time allowed. Generally it would reach well
over 100K per move, probably more like 250K-500K. That should only
make things worse according to your hypothesis.
Yes, this is what sp
>> It would have been much more persuasive if you had simply run a 5K
>> playout bot against a 100K bot and see which wins more. ...
>
> I may do that, although personally I would be far more cautious about
> drawing conclusions from those matches, as compared to ones played
> against a strong ref
Darren Cook: <49483abe.9070...@dcook.org>:
>> If you find a Japanese 7p who can give a Korean 1p 2 stones and win, I
>> will eat my hat...
>
>No one mentioned Korean professionals. But, as far as I know, a Japanese
>7p should be able to give a Japanese 1p 2 stones and win 50% of the
>time. Roughly.
On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 12:34 AM, Weston Markham
wrote:
> I don't know, although I was under the impression that I had
> downloaded the "pure" version. I found a reference to the source here
> on the list, and downloaded and compiled that. When I get back home,
> how would I quickly determine wh
By the way, what does scratch100k.sh look like?
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On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 12:51 AM, Darren Cook wrote:
> I'd also like to second Mark Boon's statement that Gnugo is not an
> expert judge, especially not after only 10 moves. One experiment I did,
> a couple of years ago, was scoring lots of terminal or almost-terminal
> 9x9 positions with gnugo an
On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 1:32 AM, Mark Boon wrote:
> By the way, what does scratch100k.sh look like?
../gogui-1.1.3/bin/gogui-twogtp -auto -black "java -jar jrefgo.jar 10" -game
s 1 -komi 0.5 -maxmoves 10 -referee "gnugo --mode gtp --score aftermath --ch
inese-rules --positional-superko" -
>> No one mentioned Korean professionals. But, as far as I know, a Japanese
>> 7p should be able to give a Japanese 1p 2 stones and win 50% of the
>> time. Roughly.
>
> I don't agree. Japanese Professinals' ranks never decrease.
Hi,
Are we talking about different things? All I meant to say was
- Show quoted text -
On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 11:35 PM, Weston Markham
wrote:
> On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 1:32 AM, Mark Boon wrote:
>> By the way, what does scratch100k.sh look like?
>
> ../gogui-1.1.3/bin/gogui-twogtp -auto -black "java -jar jrefgo.jar 10"
> -game
> s 1 -komi 0.5 -maxmove
On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 8:52 PM, Michael Goetze wrote:
> I wish people would stop spreading such incorrect information. The
> correlation between professional ranks and playing strength is quite bad,
> and EGF 7dans are not, generally speaking, professional strength.
I'm not claiming to be an aut
On Tue, 2008-12-16 at 19:34 -0500, Weston Markham wrote:
> I may do that, although personally I would be far more cautious about
> drawing conclusions from those matches, as compared to ones played
> against a strong reference opponent. But I guess other people feel
> differently about this. Anyw
On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 2:07 AM, Mark Boon wrote:
> Thanks. I just realized that you set the komi to 0.5. That doesn't
> sound like a good idea. I wanted to make sure you had the same for the
> 100k version. Were your earlier experiments also with 0.5 komi? MC
> programs are highly sensitive to ko
On Tue, 2008-12-16 at 19:34 -0500, Weston Markham wrote:
> I don't know, although I was under the impression that I had
> downloaded the "pure" version. I found a reference to the source here
> on the list, and downloaded and compiled that. When I get back home,
> how would I quickly determine wh
On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 7:34 PM, Weston Markham
wrote:
> Incidentally, when I get home, I'll post the line of play that follows
> those moves with the highest (asymptotic) Monte Carlo values,
> according to jrefgo. I have about 18 moves calculated with high
> accuracy.
Here is a .sgf for the fir
On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 2:38 AM, Don Dailey wrote:
> Is it the java version? I believe there is only one version of that and
> it's the pure reference bot. I did make modification to a C version
> but I think I kept that private.
Yes, it is the Java version.
___
Darren Cook: <49485a64.5080...@dcook.org>:
>>> No one mentioned Korean professionals. But, as far as I know, a Japanese
>>> 7p should be able to give a Japanese 1p 2 stones and win 50% of the
>>> time. Roughly.
>>
>> I don't agree. Japanese Professinals' ranks never decrease.
>
>Hi,
>Are we tal
Hello David,
David Fotland: <00ca01c95fa2$5ee6bb50$1cb431...@com>:
>Thank you for the results. Thank you for providing a machine and letting
>Many Faces participate, even though I could not travel to Japan.
Thank you for the participation and a very excellent and interesting
game against Crazy
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