[computer-go] Miai

2006-11-25 Thread Sanghyeon Seo
Recently Remi Coulom asked for Go positions that are easy to understand for humans, and difficult for computers. I missed the thread at the time, so here's my late two cents. GNU Go passes as black. White plays C1. Now A1 and E1 are miai. White wins 1 point. (There are same number of black and w

Re: [computer-go] .. if Monte-Carlo programs would play infinitestrong

2006-11-25 Thread steve uurtamo
> Does this mean that it does not converge to optimal > play when processing > power goes to infinite or do you mean that it > converges from the practical > point of view much too slow? i just mean that it is too slow to be of practical value on a 19x19 board. although Don is certainly making

Re: [computer-go] .. if Monte-Carlo programs would play infinite strong

2006-11-25 Thread Don Dailey
Yes, I agree with the point you are making. Random play is a relatively good evaluator, but it is not a great evaluator. And it's very weak at tactics. Letting it do a lot of simulations does not cause it converge to the correct value. But the current breed of MC computer players do not have

Re: [computer-go] Positions illustrative of computer stupidity ?

2006-11-25 Thread alain Baeckeroot
Le samedi 25 novembre 2006 00:38, alain Baeckeroot a écrit : > Le mercredi 22 novembre 2006 20:44, Rémi Coulom a écrit : > > Hi, > Hi Rémi > > > > I am in search of Go positions that are easy to understand for humans, > > and difficult for computers. > > > One incredibly simple example for human,

Re: [computer-go] .. if Monte-Carlo programs would play infinite strong

2006-11-25 Thread Magnus Persson
Quoting Jacques Basaldúa <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: I am not an MC developer, but as far as I know, UCT keeps a limited (i.e. n-ply) tree in memory and intentionally unbiasses the nodes to make the convergence faster, that does not change anything, assuming constant tree size. You have misunderstoo

Re: [computer-go] .. if Monte-Carlo programs would play infinite strong

2006-11-25 Thread Jacques Basaldúa
Maybe I did no explain my point well enough. The problem with infinite is that we get a better approximation to a wrong value. With few simulations we get that value with, say 1/10 error. With an astronomical amount of simulations we get the same value with an error of 1e-200, but it's still

Re: [computer-go] .. if Monte-Carlo programs would play infinitestrong

2006-11-25 Thread Chrilly
I think the biggest myth of all was that humans were good at chess and that a computer had to be better at EVERYTHING in order to beat the human masters who were practically given god-like status. In fact they are even today weaker than the top humans besides in "athletics". The reason for comp