Thanks for the heads up! Need some advice though - if I may. Being a
clojure/lein newbie, I'm not sure how to tell Lein that I've just DLed the
latest, bleeding-edge version of clojure. And while I'm at it, to what
directory on my Win10 box should I have DLed 1.10.2-alpha1 to? Thanks in
adv
The emacs-cider combo chokes with an error to the effect that cider-nrepl
could not be loaded.
I'm on a Win10 box. Would someone point m to a possible solution please.
Thx.
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6.0
;; Clojure 1.10.0, Java 1.8.0_241
On Friday, 13 March 2020 12:58:52 UTC-6, Alex Miller wrote:
>
> It would probably help to include any error information for someone to
> learn more about the problem.
>
> On Friday, March 13, 2020 at 1:54:40 PM UTC-5, Duke wrote:
>>
>>
hi,
> Got it working! Removed the overzealous use of dosync in defn do-year.
Might I beg a small summary write-up of your experience and/or
conclusions, recommendations? :-)
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> This is an outline of the strategy employed by the "world" teachpack
> that accompanies the "How to Design Programs" curriculum that uses PLT
> Scheme. Students routinely develop the snake program as a homework
> assignment, using this approach.
+1 / word up / hear hear.
also, it is akin to u
> Another thing to look at (there's always another thing to look at)
this worries me... it is sorta like the discussions i see about how
some new db engine is FAST, oh but it totally fails on occasion and
trashes the data, oopsy, oh well.
how do we know any given lib is not going to just end up
> A long time ago in a galaxy far away (okay, 1992-1994 in Cupertino) I
> worked on an OS project written in Dylan when it was still a lisp.
that was a wonderful + sad story all at the same time. i'm sick and
tired of Good Enough. but don't have the time or money to go for The
Better. :-}
--~--~
hi,
On Fri, Feb 6, 2009 at 4:24 PM, e wrote:
> What;s Ralph all about? You've certainly peaked my interest.
google it up, that's what i immediately started doing of course :-)
http://209.85.173.132/search?q=cache:R3Jw4HMdGIwJ:coding.derkeiler.com/pdf/Archive/Lisp/comp.lang.lisp/2005-09/msg003
http://sicortex.com/products
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On Sun, Mar 8, 2009 at 12:45 PM, André Thieme
wrote:
>
> I like that Clojure is a dynamically typed language.
> Even in dynamic languages it is possible to find out a lot more
> about the code itself than one may think on a first glance.
> Clojure already supports type hints that can make code ru
ok oops that didn't work, sorry -- i mean to send this link:
http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/samth/typed-scheme/manual/
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> IDE giving me the most appropriate options.
i'm under the updated impression that some Smalltalk IDEs can and do
look at the current AST of the system to give you proper completion,
rather than giving up because there aren't explicit types. so maybe
some such could be done some day for Clojure
> Another red herring: you are describing a disadvantage of nominal over
> structural typing. Not dynamic vs static typing.
there are probably several different arguments being conflated in such
discussions.
for example, theory vs. practice: there is the theory of what in fact
are the options f
> Unfortunately I don't know of a nice way of expressing an event-driven
> architecture in Clojure, but I'm very interested in what you said
> about accomplishing it in Haskell.
(iiuc?) here is a game example: http://home.doramail.com/ns999/asteroids.html
(which is based off of a haskell version
> On the other hand, I do seem to get less bugs than with Ruby, so
> perhaps immutability is a more significant factor than static typing
> when it comes to creating robust applications.
in a way, i can totally believe that, and it sounds really good, even
if it isn't true :-)
i mean, one of the
> The Erlang world has a tool called "Dialyzer"
w00t.
i've always very much liked that approach, and wish it were available
for other dynamic languages (maybe qi-lang is somewhat similar). it
seems to offer everybody whatever options they want, so we can all get
along. sorta in the vein of gradu
hi,
when i have a repl going and get errors, it says NO_SOURCE_FILE:0 so
it is hard for newbie-me to figure out what i'm doing wrong in my
syntax. does slime do something more helpful here? am i mis-diagnosing
the issue? any other helpful thoughts?
thanks!
--~--~-~--~~~-
i just tried using (load-file "foo.clj") to see if that loaded file
line numbers, but the errors still say no source found zero sorry
charlie. :-(
On Fri, Mar 13, 2009 at 4:41 PM, Raoul Duke wrote:
> hi,
>
> when i have a repl going and get errors, it says NO_SOURCE_FILE:0
hi,
i'm up to date with the clojure jar. the error messages i get seem
awfully terse and not particularly helpful in learning what i'm doing
wrong. for example, with the code below, when i try (bs 0 (vector 1 2
3)) i get "java.lang.ClassCastException:
clojure.lang.LazilyPersistentVector (NO_SOURC
thanks, all, for the notes! i will try those out.
sincerely.
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> Try frequently doing:
all of this sounds like it would be great if i understood enough of it
all to make some patches to the source code -- it strikes me as rather
newbie-unfriendly the way it currently all works. $0.02.
sincerely.
--~--~-~--~~~---~--~~
You rec
> could be applicable in Clojure. From what I gathered from the tweets
> from Qcon, Qi was mentioned again there. Does anyone know if there
> was anything more to it than "it would be nice"?
(fwiw, Mark T. talked about it a bit on the Qi list.
http://groups.google.co.uk/group/Qilang/search?gro
> If you go days and days without actually running your code, then you
> deserve what you get. A test suite would catch this for you every time;
> developing without one is irresponsible.
geeze people, i'm tired of the "tests are the answer to everything."
give it a break. not every test suite wi
please, for those who aren't Erlang nerds, also see Dialyzer.
http://www.it.uu.se/research/group/hipe/dialyzer
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bably don't fit.
>
> On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 10:11 AM, Raoul Duke wrote:
>>
>>> could be applicable in Clojure. From what I gathered from the tweets
>>> from Qcon, Qi was mentioned again there. Does anyone know if there
>>> was anything more to it
> If the Dialyzer can do all this without having an
> optional type system in Erlang, then it should be
> obvious what would be possible, if Rich agrees and
> finds the time/resources to add one in Clojure.
maybe this is a bad/crazy idea, but could one make a pluggable
Dialyzer, which could then
> that was happening? I know I could insert my own code to track that,
> but it seems like this may be a commonly needed tool for Clojure to
> detect excessive conflicts/retries in transactions. Maybe we could set
> a special variable like *track-retries* that would cause Clojure to
> produce a te
question: what do people think about the general topic of inheritance?
my take on it so far is that inheritance apparently sounds like a good
idea at first to some folks, but quickly turns into something of a
nightmare if one is actually concerned with keeping a coherent
semantics (so that (a) peo
hi,
if one doesn't have to convert the db into objects, then is there less
impedance mismatch? what is a nice setup in a functional language for
working with a db schema? what is your experience/thought?
thanks!
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(i know this note of mine probably really doesn't help, but)
> But maybe such thing already exist in the Scheme/CommonLisp world, and could
> be used or be a source of inspiration ?
i'm not totally sure what you have in mind, but the subject of "new
researchy approach to doing GUIs that is suppo
> Yes, you're certainly right, but I'm only 35 old, and I don't want to yet
> let my dreams behind me, given that I will certainly (I hope so!) play at
> least 35 more years in this industry :-)
i'd say both:
a) that is good to hear, and i support such attitude! please go forth
and invent, becau
has the Clojure Box type of thing appeared for non-Windows systems?
(googling says no.)
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T
> Ideally, since backward compatibility is a big selling point of Java.
my view of Java's backward compatibility is that it is kind of a bunch
of hot air that restricts the ecosystem from being better. i vastly
prefer the fact that .net is willing to make real changes to get real
benefits.
since
>> How do you decide which construct to use for a particular algorithm/
>> program?
it would be nifty keen nice if there were some cute visual flow charty
representation of people's decision tree? maybe something that can get
'crowd sourced' on some wiki page somewhere. some day.
--~--~-
hi,
anybody have experience with / opinions / thoughts / feelings on
skeletons (design patterns) for concurrency?
e.g. http://camlp3l.inria.fr/eng.htm
might the approach be useful even with STM?
thanks.
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http://alarmingdevelopment.org/?p=217
seems like it would be an interesting fit with Clojure.
sincerely.
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hi,
has anybody experimented with using Clojure code from e.g. Scala, to
get Clojure STM goodness in other languages?
thanks.
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> client. I'm wonder if such a thing exists, or has everyone basically
> just rolled their own wrapper on top of their favorite Java HTTP
> client library?
i dunno. but, for possible cribbing, there's a Scala wrapper around
HttpClient, which supposedly makes it all Suck Less.
e.g.
http://techn
hi,
Seems like Haskell's laziness has an aura of "it will bite you
performance-wise sooner or later." What is different (I'm asking
didactically, not snarkily) about Clojure's laziness? Does it manage
to avoid some aspects of the "uh ohs" in Haskell?
many thanks.
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wow. the fact that people use java+somehatefullibs+xml and apparently
think that is something "good", completely drives me insane. i mean,
it isn't just additional bloat, it is more like
ackermann-function-scale bloat. gargh! has anybody done something
like:
1) convert the bloody XML to Clojure l
> I'm not sure what can be done about this kind of problem. The laziness
> is wonderful until it breaks ... here's an area where Haskell would
> have been able to identify the incorrect call via static analysis.
i guess that even in Haskell there are issues with laziness, at least
in the wider se
> If the issue is performance, then I understand that. But my vote as a
> user (not that anyone asked for my opinion!) is that I would rather have
> everything logically be a method and take a performance penalty. For me
> it's a consistency and simplicity over performance argument, although
> n
> I agree that it would be nice to be able to treat all functions as
> methods. But performance is also a key feature of Clojure that
> attracts a large percentage of its users, myself included. The initial
> reason I chose Clojure over Python, or Ruby, or any other scripting
> language was its ex
Andrew, you have just said what needs to be said about DI that for
some reason it seems like nobody else on earth ever says -- no, they
have to write some giant screed that includes references to Hollywood.
No wonder technology sucks, when the people writing the tutorials
can't even explain things
> So Raoul, did you give it a try after all of this?
in a word... no.
:-}
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seems like Clojure has a range of choices when it comes to dealing
with mutation. is there a great online tutorial that explains what the
options are, and that suggests when to not/use them? many thanks.
oh wait.
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1028318/clojure-mutable-storage-types
:-)
--~--
> Does anyone know how to sort and avoid large memory consumptions?
well, presumably the sort needs to look at all the data in order to be
able to sort it, no?! so it is kinda just a tough cookie reality that
the memory will be used.
on the other hand, maybe you can do some form of the Schwartzi
> I need some pointers on this. This is a really crucial thing for me and
> any help will be appreciated.
http://weblog.raganwald.com/2007/01/what-ive-learned-from-sales-part-i.html
sincerely.
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> He, being a fairly intelligent and pragmatic man, accepted my logic.
"dibs!", i would sincerely very much like to hook up with your
advisers and investors when i start my company! i mean, that sounded
like an all-too-reasonable experience! :-)
(so, you hiring?)
sincerely.
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> We are hiring; but do you live in Mumbai, India? :)
no, but i do know some folks around there (although they are all happy
where they are, as far as i know). do you allow telecommuting from
usa? ;-)
best of luck with the venture.
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> If you're finding that you're managing a lot of state, and thus have
> trouble debugging, then you're probably not taking a sufficiently
> functional approach. (A big hint is if you find yourself wanting a
> stepping debugger to watch values change. It's the "change" part
> that's worrying!)
pe
hi,
is there an equivalent of java.util.Map.entrySet() or an iterator over
that? i see things for getting the keys alone, or the vals alone. i
guess off the cuff i find it odd that doseq on a map doesn't give me
k-v pairs as the entries by default, but gives them interleaved.
-Mr. Not Yet With T
> -Mr. Not Yet With The Programme.
thanks to all for the helpful replies. i might actually be 'getting
it' now. (well, at least minimally :-)
sincerely.
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(i googled but didn't find anything about this yet...)
while trying to understand the graphics animation code from ants.clj,
i tried this simpler code, but when i run the code below in the repl,
i don't see the "."s until i evaluate something afterwards; then they
get flushed to the console. is t
> i don't see the "."s until i evaluate something afterwards; then they
many thanks to all for the help!
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that is terrific. many thanks!
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> clojure functions should return a value. This is good advice, but I
> have code that sometimes return nil. Is it better to return 'nil' or
> an object with no data. I guess a simple example, if you have a
imho, null/nil/etc. are more often than not pretty evil.
random related links:
http://
hi,
1) little particle demo, attached. me trying to learn Clojure by
ripping off Rich's ants code.
2) in the repl you can do hot-code-swap (in the vein of Erlang,
JavaRebel, etc.) care of agents; see the bottom of the file for
examples.
3) i have not run it under a profiler yet.
4) please suggest
is there an archive of e.g. http://clojure.org/Reference i can
download for offline work? i haven't found it yet if there is :-)
thanks!
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> It looks like anyone with Organizer rights on Clojure's wikispaces wiki
> should be able to export an HTML or WikiText backup zip file.
is that different than clojure.org?
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hi,
i see it has been discussed before, and that there are lots of
options. :-) to restrict it a bit, what is the current practice for
getting ML style pattern matching syntax in Clojure?
many thanks.
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http://users.csc.calpoly.edu/~clements/scheme-workshop-2009/
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hi,
while i realize the real answer is "it depends!", are there any
current rules of thumb based on experience about how to tackle
performance tweaking in Clojure? (e.g. as a small random example, i
think i've heard at times that type notes should speed things up, but
then other times have heard
http://patryshev.com/monad/crashcourse.pdf
(via SVP)
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reading the docs for atom turned out to make sense, now :-)
http://clojure.org/atoms
having the discussion helped set the stage in my head for groking i
think, thanks!
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> Much of the semantics of the query language is based on Prolog.
as an aside, i was under the impression that Datalog was syntactically
a subset of Prolog, but was not semantically so much so, since in
Prolog order matters e.g. wrt termination.
sincerely.
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per chance, anybody out there working on a more typed
front-end language (e.g. perhaps like PLT's Typed Scheme, or even a
more different syntax e.g. more MLy), or something like Erlang's
Dialyzer?
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> Runs (in a nice constant memory) even though yours (which almost
> appears equivalent) will not!
i am thinking ever more that less than stupendously overt syntax for
laziness is too risky cf. Haskell and Clojure.
sincerely.
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hi,
i don't have a repro case yet, but i've been trying to use agents to
be able to get swing's thread to draw things from my engine w/out
having to think hard about threading; using @agent in my swing-related
code to get the state of things to be drawn. but sometimes i get an
error on a source l
> The error would have occured in the (send ) where the drawing is
> done. @agent is not causing it, but you do get an exception there
> because of the previous exception while drawing. To debug this I
> suggest inserting some printlns into the function you are sending.
thanks! that makes sen
> The info is there, but as you say it isn't very obvious.
> I'm happy to submit a trivial patch which would change the error
> message to include the agent's error string.
holy toledo, thanks!
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hi,
is there perchance some way Clojure's REPL might be able to print out
more information in such situations? i don't know what precisely the
situations are. it is frustrating to not get more information to help
debug something. seems like it might be about anonymous fns or some
such?
thanks fo
anybody tried that route?
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> You're right, it was a memory leak, although it took me hours to find.
> Clojure's lazy lists were responsible for the leak; I wasn't honestly
> expecting this innocent looking code to be so insidious
$0.02 another instance of this that makes me think laziness needs to
be explicit in the sy
hi,
are there any plans to something along the lines of e.g. having
autodef be something that can be turned on per-file via some
expression in the file itself?
thanks.
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> The actor itself is
> an agent wrapping a vector with the function, period, awake flag, and
> current parameters.
will actors actually do the queued function w/in a reasonable
timeframe? i don't think there are any guarantees of it so if one is
hoping to get really nicely periodic behaviour...
>> will actors actually do the queued function w/in a reasonable
>> timeframe? i don't think there are any guarantees of it so if one is
>> hoping to get really nicely periodic behaviour... just curious because
>> i'd thought of using agents for periodic stuff, too.
>
> In practice, they seem to.
it seems to get chopped off part way down the page for me, of late.
(it doesn't get chopped off in ie for me.)
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>> it seems to get chopped off part way down the page for me, of late.
>> (it doesn't get chopped off in ie for me.)
>
> You wouldn't happen to be tunneling to a proxy via PuTTY, would you?
> I've seen that happen in the past to a lot of people.
nope.
(off-list i heard of another person having t
hello,
it seems like when i'm running agent stuff via load-file etc. in the
repl, exceptions in fns the agent runs don't appear to be logged
anywhere, they are seemingly silently swallowed. personally i find
that frustrating. is there some way to make them always verbose / spit
out to stdout? or
> If any exceptions are thrown by an action function, no nested
> dispatches will occur, and the exception will be cached in the Agent
> itself. When an Agent has errors cached, any subsequent interactions
> will immediately throw an exception, until the agent's errors are
> cleared. Agent errors
i don't know what the best solution for everybody is, but the super
silent treatment seems like the worst, but that's just me :-}
> Perhaps you're suggesting the agents should automatically catch all
> their own exceptions and then throw them to stderr. What if you want to
> handle them? For de
when people use (take n (repeatedly fn)) are there other ways they
might have written that in clojure? it just seems like more ascii than
should be required :-)
e.g. not exactly the same but bigloo has list-tabulate
http://www-sop.inria.fr/mimosa/fp/Bigloo/doc/bigloo-7.html#list-tabulate
gracias.
hm.
i copied and pasted the examples from the transient page into a local
test.clj, and i don't really see a significant performance difference
(it should be an order of magnitude according to the web page).
macbook pro. just downloaded sources and built
clojure-1.1.0-alpha-SNAPSHOT.jar for this.
as an aside, sometimes you want the rng to be truly pure so you can
easily recreate situations. take a look at randomness in haskell for
fun. :-)
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> Try with a 1.6 JVM...
wow. it actually got worse than when i was using 1.5. ... so much for
hallowed write-once-run-the-same-anywhere-ish of the jvm, d'oh.
Clojure 1.1.0-alpha-SNAPSHOT
user=> (load-file "/tmp/test.clj")
#'user/vrange2
user=> (. System getProperty "java.version")
"1.6.0_15"
user
> user=> (time (def v (vrange 100)))
> --- never came back, i had to ^C^C (in emacs buffer)!!
p.s. so at least the transient version never did that ;-)
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i have tried:
1.5
1.6
1.6 -server
the last i did both in repl-in-emacs, and in a repl-in-straightup-shell.
the numbers i get are weird. it does seem like v2 is faster than v,
but never gets stupendously fast (never faster than 500 msec on a dual
core macbook pro 2.2ghz core 2 duo 4gb ram), and v
hi,
i'd be interested to hear who has successfully used clojure in
production. i know of some, as some folks have been vocal; any other
interesting-but-so-far-silent uses people'd be willing to fess up
about?
many thanks.
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> I believe that this is most likely a symptom of the Apple JVM and not
yeah, given Apple's wonderful treatment of Java over the years, i
could believe your theory.
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> Most likely it's related to the JVM version (1.5 by default), the
> amount of memory allocated (I use -Xmx512m), the amount of L2 cache, a
> HotSpot tuning parameter, or something else along those lines.
>
> There are far too many possibilities to consider, and too little
> evidence, to support a
what do people use for doing in-memory simple dbs? like, do people
just use persistent maps, or do they go out and use derby or
something?
e.g.
(def db1 {0 "a" 1 "b"})
(def db2 {0 "ayh" 1 "bee"})
(def dbJoin-1-2 {0 0 1 1})
(defn lookup-forward [db1 db2 dbj key]
(let [key2 (get dbj key)]
(lis
On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 5:07 PM, Raoul Duke wrote:
> what do people use for doing in-memory simple dbs? like, do people
> just use persistent maps, or do they go out and use derby or
> something?
some relevant things:
http://osdir.com/ml/clojure/2009-09/msg00404.html
cupboard
datalog
k,
how far along is the implementation of QuickCheck-esque features?
(from http://bitbucket.org/kotarak/clojurecheck/ it looks to me like
it hasn't had things done to it in almost a year, which could be
either a good or bad sign :-)
thanks.
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ah. i guess i'm supposed to use clojure.test and clojure.test.tap, i see.
On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 5:05 PM, Raoul Duke wrote:
> how far along is the implementation of QuickCheck-esque features?
>
> (from http://bitbucket.org/kotarak/clojurecheck/ it looks to me like
> it hasn
hi,
i've seen some blog posts / code about using agents to use up
cores/hyper-threading and speed up testing cycles. how might one do
that with clojure.test{.tap}? like if somebody already has that in
github somewhere i don't want to reinvent the wheel.
thanks.
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> Anyway, this is what I use. I hope you find it helpful.
cool! thank you.
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hi,
why does that translation happen? is there some java issue/requirement?
thanks.
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> I don't think '-' is valid in a Java class name.
makes sense, and i learn something "new" every day...
thanks.
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anybody working on something like erlang's dialyzer static checking
tool? a guy can hope...
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