Re: [Cerowrt-devel] treating 2.4ghz as -legacy?

2013-12-17 Thread dpreed
I know it will just trigger raging arguments, but it turns out that 5 GHz propagates far better in normal housing than does 2.4 GHz. In particular, actual scientific measurements of penetration of wood, fiberboard, concrete, brick, etc. have been done, and I can provide many of them (they are

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] treating 2.4ghz as -legacy?

2013-12-18 Thread dpreed
Yes - there are significant differences in the physical design of access points that may affect 5 GHz and 2.4 GHz differently. There are also modulation differences, and there may actually be scheduling/protocol differences. All of these affect connectivity far more than center-frequency will

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] treating 2.4ghz as -legacy?

2013-12-19 Thread dpreed
The tower is a slightly different situation. There you are not between the antenna and ground - the ground is between the antenna and you |/ | 0 |-+- | /\ =

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] Anything but "AQM"

2013-12-20 Thread dpreed
Given that there is no likelihood of making localized queue management "intelligent" because it has no global information whatsoever, I strongly suggest that "smart" "intelligent" and even "active" are hugely misleading. They are based on a completely false premise - that queues should be allo

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] a new chipset and elsewhere a review of streamboost

2014-01-24 Thread dpreed
While I applaud "making wifi fast", I'd like to see some substantial effort in moving away from (beyond) Wifi's inherent limits to dense scaling. That's what I'm working on in my personal wireless lab, with my own funds, since it's actually a problem that does not get solved by either IEEE 802

[Cerowrt-devel] side issue, related to the bigger picture surrounding Cerowrt and Bufferbloat.

2014-01-25 Thread dpreed
On Friday, January 24, 2014 5:27pm, "Dave Taht" said: > and also, suddenly every device with a web server on it on 80 and 443 > is vulnerable, ranging from your printer to your fridge. One of the reasons I like the "Cerowrt project" is that it focuses on fixing the aspects of the Internet p

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] hwrngs

2014-02-02 Thread dpreed
Any idea what the price will be in quantity? The fact that it supports both BB black and RPi is great news for makers interested in authentication and security. On Saturday, February 1, 2014 11:11pm, "Dave Taht" said: > I am still quite irked by having to use /dev/urandom for important

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] hwrngs

2014-02-02 Thread dpreed
Ordered the RPi version (5 more in stock, if anyone wants one). Thanks, Dave! On Sunday, February 2, 2014 11:25am, "Dave Taht" said: > On Sun, Feb 2, 2014 at 8:17 AM, wrote: > > Any idea what the price will be in quantity? > > No. Pretty cheap, it's a very tiny board > > http://cr

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] Friends don't let friends run factory firmware

2014-02-18 Thread dpreed
Apropos of this topic construed broadly, just got the following in my email. I'm thinking about a MicroZed network appliance anyway, so a PMOD interface is interesting because that's the MicroZed peripheral standard. But wouldn't it be nice if one could have this kind of authentication in a ro

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] uplink_buffer_adjustment

2014-02-25 Thread dpreed
I've measured buffer size with TCP, when there is no fq_codel or whatever doing drops. After all, this is what caused me to get concerned. And actually, since UDP packets are dropped by fq_codel the same as TCP packets, it's easy to see how big fq_codel lets the buffers get. If the buffer gets

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] Got Bloat?

2014-03-14 Thread dpreed
I can tell you that when I originally spoke to ATT about their "4G" HSPA+ network's buffer bloat (which was before it had that name and when the folks in the IETF said I must have been incompetently measuring the system), ATT's Sr. VP of network operations and his chief technical person refused

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] wired article about bleed and bloat and underfunded critical infrastructure

2014-04-11 Thread dpreed
I'm afraid it's not *just* underfunded. I reviewed the details of the code involved and the fixes, and my conclusion is that even programmers of security software have not learned how to think about design, testing, etc. Especially the continuing use of C in a large shared process address sp

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] Full blown DNSSEC by default?

2014-04-13 Thread dpreed
I'd be for A. Or C with a very, very strong warning that would encourage users to pressure their broken upstream. Users in China will never not have a broken upstream, of course, but they know that already... :-) Similarly, I hope we don't have Heartbleed in our SSL. Maybe we should put a

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] wired article about bleed and bloat and underfunded critical infrastructure

2014-04-14 Thread dpreed
All great points. Regarding the Orange Book for distributed/network systems - the saddest part of that effort was that it was declared "done" when the standards were published, even though the challenges of decentralized networks of autonomously managed computers was already upon us. The Ora

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] [aqm] chrome web page benchmarker fixed

2014-04-18 Thread dpreed
Why is the DNS PLR so high? 1% is pretty depressing. Also, it seems odd to eliminate 19% of the content retrieval because the tail is fat and long rather than short. Wouldn't it be better to have 1000 servers? On Friday, April 18, 2014 2:15pm, "Greg White" said: > Dave, > > We used

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] comcast provisioned rates?

2014-04-19 Thread dpreed
As a non-Comcast-customer, I am curious too. I had thought their "boost" feature allowed temporary rates *larger* than the quoted "up to" rates. (but I remember the old TV-diagonal games and disk capacity games, where any way to get a larger number was used in the advertising, since the FTC d

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] comcast provisioned rates?

2014-04-19 Thread dpreed
Very good. So the idea, rather than Comcast implementing codel or something proper in the DOCSIS 3.0 systems they have in the field, is to emulate power boost to "impedance match" the add-on router-based codel approach to some kind of knowledge of what the DOCSIS CMTS buffering state looks li

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] Had to disable dnssec today

2014-04-26 Thread dpreed
Is this just a dnsmasq issue or is the DNSSEC mechanism broken at these sites? If it is the latter, I can get attention from executives at some of these companies (Heartbleed has sensitized all kinds of companies to the need to strengthen security infrastructure). If the former, the change

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] [Bloat] fq_codel is two years old

2014-05-15 Thread dpreed
Well done. I'm optimistic for deployment everywhere, except CMTS's, the LTE and HSPA+ access networks, and all corporate firewall and intranet gear. The solution du jour is to leave bufferbloat in place, while using the real fads: prioritization (diffserv once we have the "fast lanes" fully l

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] [Bloat] fq_codel is two years old

2014-05-15 Thread dpreed
diffserv is not evil. However, there has never been a practical mechanism for defining the meaning of the different "levels of service" across vendors and Autonomous Systems. The problem is that diffserv is framed as if there were a global "controller" of the Internet who could impose a prec

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] [Bloat] fq_codel is two years old

2014-05-15 Thread dpreed
I don't think that at all. I suspect you know that. But if I confused you, let me assure you that my view of the proper operating point of the Internet as a whole is that the expected buffer queue on any switch anywhere in the Internet is < 1 datagram. fq_codel is a good start, but it still r

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] [Bloat] fq_codel is two years old

2014-05-16 Thread dpreed
I agree with you Jim about being careful with QoS. That's why Andrew Odlyzko proposed the experiment with exactly two classes, and proposed it as an *experiment*. So many researchers and IETF members seem to think we should just turn on diffserv and everything will work great... I've seen very

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] Ideas on how to simplify and popularize bufferbloat control for consideration.

2014-05-21 Thread dpreed
Besides deployment in cerowrt and openwrt, what would really have high leverage is that the techniques developed in cerowrt's exploration (including fq_codel) get deployed where they should be deployed: in the access network systems: CMTS's, DSLAM's, Enterprise boundary gear, etc. from the majo

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] Ideas on how to simplify and popularize bufferbloat control for consideration.

2014-05-21 Thread dpreed
In reality we don't disagree on this: On Wednesday, May 21, 2014 11:19am, "Dave Taht" said: > > Well, I disagree somewhat. The downstream shaper we use works quite > well, until we run out of cpu at 50mbits. Testing on the ubnt edgerouter > has had the inbound shaper work up a little past 100

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] Ideas on how to simplify and popularize bufferbloat control for consideration.

2014-05-21 Thread dpreed
The end-to-end argument against putting functionality in the network is a modularity principle, as you know. The exception is when there is a function that you want to provide that is not strictly end-to-end. Congestion is one of them - there is a fundamental issue with congestion that it hap

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] Ideas on how to simplify and popularize bufferbloat control for consideration.

2014-05-21 Thread dpreed
On Wednesday, May 21, 2014 1:53pm, "Dave Taht" said: > Or we can take a break, and write books about how we learned to relax and > stop worrying about the bloat. Leading to waistline bloat?___ Cerowrt-devel mailing list Cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbl

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] Ubiquiti QOS

2014-05-25 Thread dpreed
Not that it is directly relevant, but there is no essential reason to require 50 ms. of buffering. That might be true of some particular QOS-related router algorithm. 50 ms. is about all one can tolerate in any router between source and destination for today's networks - an upper-bound rather

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] Fwd: qos in open commotion?

2014-05-25 Thread dpreed
Besides my diversionary ramble in previous post, let me observe this. Until you realize that maintaining buffers inside the network never helps with congestion in a resource limited network, you don't really understand the problem. The only reason to have buffers at all is to deal with trans

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] Ubiquiti QOS

2014-05-25 Thread dpreed
Len Kleinrock and his student proved that the "optimal" state for throughput in the internet is the 1-2 buffer case. It's easy to think this through... A simple intuition is that each node that qualifies as a "bottleneck" (meaning that the input rate exceeds the service rate of the outbound q

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] Ubiquiti QOS

2014-05-26 Thread dpreed
On Monday, May 26, 2014 9:02am, "Mikael Abrahamsson" said: > So, I'd agree that a lot of the time you need very little buffers, but > stating you need a buffer of 2 packets deep regardless of speed, well, I > don't see how that would work. > My main point is that looking to increased buffe

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] Ubiquiti QOS

2014-05-28 Thread dpreed
I did not mean that "pacing". Sorry I used a generic term. I meant what my longer description described - a specific mechanism for reducing bunching that is essentially "cooperative" among all active flows through a bottlenecked link. That's part of a "closed loop" control system driving eac

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] Ubiquiti QOS

2014-05-28 Thread dpreed
Same concern I mentioned with Jim's message. I was not clear what I meant by "pacing" in the context of optimization of latency while preserving throughput. It is NOT just a matter of spreading packets out in time that I was talking about. It is a matter of doing so without reducing throug

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] Ubiquiti QOS

2014-05-28 Thread dpreed
Interesting conversation. A particular switch has no idea of the "latency budget" of a particular flow - so it cannot have its *own* latency budget. The switch designer has no choice but to assume that his latency budget is near zero. The number of packets that should be sustained in flig

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] Ubiquiti QOS

2014-05-29 Thread dpreed
Note: this is all about "how to achieve and sustain the ballistic phase that is optimal for Internet transport" in an end-to-end based control system like TCP. I think those who have followed this know that, but I want to make it clear that I'm proposing a significant improvement that requires

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] CeroWRT and "FTTN" 50/10 VDSL2 (aka "FIBE")

2014-06-29 Thread dpreed
You get 300M/50M in Lyons? May I ask who your provider is, and what that costs? Only a few years ago, one had to use dialup in most areas outside Paris, as I recall. On Sunday, June 29, 2014 4:33am, "Baptiste Jonglez" said: > ___ > Cerowrt-d

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] Low Power UPSes (Was: Re: [Bloat] Dave Täht quoted in the ACLU blog)

2014-06-30 Thread dpreed
Good suggestions. Also, if you have 12V charging the relevant battery, you can power 5V stuff with a cheap, off-the-shelf UBEC. In a system I built recently, I powered a Wandboard, an SSD (SSD's typically only use their 5V supply) and an 8 port GigE desktop switch with one that puts out 5@5V:

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] [Bloat] Check out www.speedof.me - no Flash

2014-07-25 Thread dpreed
I think what is being discussed is "how to measure the quality of one endpoint's experience of the entire Internet over all time or over a specific interval of time". Yet the systems that are built on top of the Internet transport do not have any kind of uniform dependence on the underlying t

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] [Bloat] still trying to find hardware for the next generation worth hacking on

2014-08-17 Thread dpreed
[ http://www.habeyusa.com/products/fwmb-7950-rangeley-network-communication-board/ ]( http://www.habeyusa.com/products/fwmb-7950-rangeley-network-communication-board/ ) looks intriguing. Probably a bit pricey, but has lots of advantages. There's another smaller one that might do: [ http:

[Cerowrt-devel] Congratulations

2014-08-20 Thread dpreed
I just read Vint Cerf's latest column in IEEE Internet Computing (October 2014), paper edition that arrived in the mail. Entitled "Bufferbloat and other Internet challenges", it highlights Jim Gettys, Dave Taht, Eric Dumazet, Codel/FQ_code, the CeroWRT/OpenWRT team, etc. pointing out that "T

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] [Bloat] still trying to find hardware for the next generation worth hacking on

2014-08-22 Thread dpreed
Yes. On Friday, August 22, 2014 11:12am, "William Katsak" said: On the FWMB-7950? Are you referring to the bypass switch? -Bill On Aug 22, 2014, at 10:19 AM, David P. Reed <[ dpr...@reed.com ]( mailto:dpr...@reed.com )> wrote: You missed the on board switch which is a major differentia

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] 10GigE nics and SFP+ modules?

2014-09-06 Thread dpreed
I have been happy with the PicoPSU power supplies which are tiny ATX PSU's that go up to 160 W. They take 12V input, which can be supplied by an external brick or a small 12V power supply of the sort used to supply power to lighting circuits (I use a Meanwell NES-350-12 to power 3 boards with i

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] 10GigE nics and SFP+ modules?

2014-09-09 Thread dpreed
I agree with you if you have to install Cat6a and Cat7 structured wiring in a building! What a nightmare trying to find contractors who can meet spec on junction boxes, etc. and do the right testing. Every connector on the path is problematic. But for "casual" home networking use or research

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] 10GigE nics and SFP+ modules?

2014-09-10 Thread dpreed
I'm confused SFP is not SFP+. SFP carries at most 4.25 Gb/sec. SFP+ works at >10 Gb/sec. So, it's not clear that the MikroTik is very useful in a 10 Gig world. It's not immediately clear but VERY likely, that this is an "edge switch" that is intended for collapsing the GigE copper

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] Fixing bufferbloat: How about an open letter to the web benchmarkers?

2014-09-11 Thread dpreed
I will sign. It would be better if we had an actual demonstration of how to implement a speedtest improvement. On Thursday, September 11, 2014 12:03pm, "Dave Taht" said: > The theme of networks being "engineered for speedtest" has been a > common thread in nearly every conversation I've

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] [Bloat] Fixing bufferbloat: How about an open letter to the web benchmarkers?

2014-09-11 Thread dpreed
Among friends of mine, we can publicize this widely. But those friends probably would like to see how the measurement would work. On Thursday, September 11, 2014 8:13pm, "Rich Brown" said: > ___ > Cerowrt-devel mailing list > Cerowrt-devel@lists

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] [Bloat] Fixing bufferbloat: How about an open letter to the web benchmarkers?

2014-09-11 Thread dpreed
The speedof.me API probably can be used directly as the measurement of download and upload - you can create a competing download or upload in Javascript using a WebWorker talking to another server that supports the websocket API to force buffer overflow. (sort of poor man's RRUL). The speedo

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] full duplex wifi?

2014-09-18 Thread dpreed
This is not completely crazy. A couple of grad students and I demonstrated this type of thing with USRP's in my lab at MIT. The problem you, David Lang, refer to is basically the key thing to deal with, but the physics and information theory issues can be dealt with. There's significant work

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] wifi over narrow channels

2014-10-09 Thread dpreed
Wideband is far better for scaling than narrowband, though. This may seem counterintuitive, but narrowband systems are extremely inefficient. They appeal to 0/1 thinking intuitively, but in actual fact the wider the bandwidth the more sharing and the more scaling is possible (and not be "balk

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] bulk packet transmission

2014-10-10 Thread dpreed
The best approach to dealing with "locking overhead" is to stop thinking that if locks are good, more locking (finer grained locking) is better. OS designers (and Linux designers in particular) are still putting in way too much locking. I deal with this in my day job (we support systems with

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] bulk packet transmission

2014-10-15 Thread dpreed
I just read the first page of the paper so far, but it sounds like it is heading in a good direction. It would be interesting to apply also to home access-point/switches, especially since they are now pushing 1 Gb/sec over the air. I will put it on my very interesting stack. On Wednesday

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] Torrents are too fast

2014-11-03 Thread dpreed
In other words, rather than share the capacity of the link "fairly" among flows (as TCP would if you eliminated excess buffer-bloat), you want to impose control on an endpoint from the middle? This seems counterproductive... what happens when the IP address changes, new services arise, and mo

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] SQM: tracking some diffserv related internet drafts better

2014-11-13 Thread dpreed
The IETF used to require rough consensus and *working code*. The latter seems to be out of fashion - especially with a zillion code points for which no working code has been produced, and worse yet, no real world testing has demonstrated any value whatsoever. It's also true that almost no ac

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] tinc vpn: adding dscp passthrough (priorityinherit), ecn, and fq_codel support

2014-12-03 Thread dpreed
Awesome start on the issue, in your note, Dave. Tor needs to change for several reasons - not that it isn't great, but with IPv6 and other things coming on line, plus the understanding of fq_codel's rationale, plus ... - the world can do much better. Same with VPNs. I hope we can set our si

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] Cerowrt-devel Digest, Vol 37, Issue 24

2014-12-22 Thread dpreed
Hi Sebastian - So reading this chart, which is consistent with my reference materials: At 6 GHz, I see additional attenuation of water vapor being -0.002 db/kM, additional to the dry air attenuation of 10.0075 dB/kM already due to the atmosphere, at 5.8 GHz. So at 5 kM (>1 mile in English

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] Cerowrt-devel Digest, Vol 37, Issue 24

2014-12-23 Thread dpreed
Typo below - dry air attenuation is 0.0075 dB/kM from the chart. My leading "1" was a mistake - so the water vapor adds 0.002/0.0075 = 27% to the very small attenuation caused by air, at this frequency. On Monday, December 22, 2014 9:16pm, dpr...@reed.com said: Hi Sebastian - So reading

[Cerowrt-devel] SInce I mentioned this crew's work in a post, I don't want anyone to be surprised.

2015-01-06 Thread dpreed
[ GoGo does not need to run “Man in the Middle Attacks” on YouTube ]( http://www.reed.com/blog-dpr/?p=174 )___ Cerowrt-devel mailing list Cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cerowrt-devel

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] Recording RF management info _and_ associated traffic?

2015-01-24 Thread dpreed
On Thursday, January 22, 2015 1:19pm, "Richard Smith" said: > On 01/22/2015 04:18 AM, David Lang wrote: > > >> Recently, we picked up the 11th floor as well and moved many people up > >> there. I got a 3rd AP (another TP-Link AC1750) and set that one up on > >> a free channel with a differen

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] Nyt missed bloat on airplane WiFi entirely

2015-01-24 Thread dpreed
Yeah. Someone should send them to my blog post. On Thursday, January 22, 2015 11:16pm, "Dave Taht" said: [ http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/01/22/style/the-sorry-state-of-in-flight-wi-fi.html?_r=2&referrer= ]( http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/01/22/style/the-sorry-state-of-in-flight-wi-fi.ht

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] Recording RF management info _and_ associated traffic?

2015-01-25 Thread dpreed
Disagree. See below. On Saturday, January 24, 2015 11:35pm, "David Lang" said: > On Sat, 24 Jan 2015, dpr...@reed.com wrote: > > A side comment, meant to discourage continuing to bridge rather than route. > > > > There's no reason that the AP's cannot have different IP addresses, but a > > c

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] Recording RF management info _and_ associated traffic?

2015-01-25 Thread dpreed
If you are using Ethernet bridging, your Ethernet switches are doing exactly this at the Ethernet layer... they have large tables of MAC addresses that are known throughout the network, and for each MAC address in the Enterprise, they have the next hop destination. So IP routing tables, one I

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] Recording RF management info _and_ associated traffic?

2015-01-25 Thread dpreed
Looking up an address in a routing table is o(1) if the routing table is a hash table. That's much more efficient than a TCAM. My simple example just requires a delete/insert at each node's route lookup table. My point was about collections of WLAN's bridged together. Look at what happens

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] Recording RF management info _and_ associated traffic?

2015-01-26 Thread dpreed
Well, we all may want to agree to disagree. I don't buy the argument that hash tables are slow compared to the TCAMs - and even if cache misses happened, a hash table is still o(1) - you look at exactly one memory address on the average in a hash table - that's the point of it. The constant f

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] Recording RF management info _and_ associated traffic?

2015-01-26 Thread dpreed
And having every /48 MAC address in your entterprise tracked is cheaper? On Sunday, January 25, 2015 11:44pm, "David Lang" said: > On Sun, 25 Jan 2015, valdis.kletni...@vt.edu wrote: > > > On Sun, 25 Jan 2015 18:09:59 -0800, David Lang said: > >> The difference is that the switches and thei

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] Fwd: Throughput regression with `tcp: refine TSO autosizing`

2015-01-31 Thread dpreed
I think we need to create an Internet focused 802.11 working group that would be to the "OS wireless designers and IEEE 802.11 standards groups" as the WHATML group was to W3C. W3C was clueless about the real world at the point WHATML was created. And WHATML was a "revenge of the real" again

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] Fwd: Throughput regression with `tcp: refine TSO autosizing`

2015-02-01 Thread dpreed
Just to clarify, managing queueing in a single access point WiFi network is only a small part of the problem of fixing the rapidly degrading performance of WiFi based systems. Similarly, mesh routing is only a small part of the problem with the scalability of cooperative meshes based on the Wi

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] Fwd: Throughput regression with `tcp: refine TSO autosizing`

2015-02-02 Thread dpreed
On Sunday, February 1, 2015 11:21pm, "Avery Pennarun" said: > On Sun, Feb 1, 2015 at 9:43 AM, wrote: > > Just to clarify, managing queueing in a single access point WiFi network is > > only a small part of the problem of fixing the rapidly degrading performance > > of WiFi based systems. >

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] MTU question

2015-02-13 Thread dpreed
Leaving stuff in a buffer in hopes that more will arrive is a terrible idea, proven over and over. However, if you already have a packet waiting to go out, combining packets after that with each other does create some benefit at no cost (reducing negotiation time). Coupled with something lik

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] [Bloat] Two d-link products tested for bloat...

2015-02-20 Thread dpreed
+1 for this idea. It really worked for Anand's and Tom's - their reviews caught fire and got followed so much that they could become profitable businesses from the ads. Craigslist style business model, funding both reviewing and CeroWRT promotion activities would be the logical thing. And I

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] Lost access to Web GUI

2015-02-25 Thread dpreed
Dave - I understand the rationale, but the real issue here is with the printers, etc. Their security model is completely inappropriate - even WITHIN a home network... depending on peripheral protection doesn't work anywhere very well. It's so easy to break into someone's home net... either by

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] Bufferbloat and the policy debate on packet loss in nanog

2015-03-02 Thread dpreed
bravo! On Sunday, March 1, 2015 6:22pm, "Dave Taht" said: > There's nothing new here, but it was a nice rant to get out of my system: > > http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.org.operators.nanog/128201 > > Of late, I have been taking a page from Linus Torvalds' playbook, in > realizing that "on

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] [Bloat] [aqm] ping loss "considered harmful"

2015-03-02 Thread dpreed
On my own web server (running nginx) I provide an HTTP 1.1 accessible statistics service. It returns a single JSON structure with the underlying packet statistics for the server and the current connection. Since this packet is inserted into the HTTP 1.1 stream upon request, it provides both the

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] [aqm] [Bloat] ping loss "considered harmful"

2015-03-04 Thread dpreed
It's a heavy burden to place on ICMP ping to say that it should tell you about all aspects of its path through all the networks between source and destination. On the other hand, I'll suggest that Fred's point - treat ICMP Ping like any other IP datagram with the same header options is the essen

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] the cerowrt easter egg

2015-03-04 Thread dpreed
+1 On Wednesday, March 4, 2015 3:19pm, "Dave Taht" said: > As you can see over the last month I have been laughing in despair > about the futility we seem to face in getting solutions for > bufferbloat "out there", ever since the streamboost and gogo-in-flight > data came in. > > So it occurs

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] [Bloat] great interview on the scale conference wifi successes

2015-03-12 Thread dpreed
On Thursday, March 12, 2015 11:31am, "Richard Smith" said: > On 03/10/2015 05:12 PM, Dave Taht wrote: > >>> >>> This year I deployed 53 APs. I'll make an updated map showing where they >>> were deployed. >> >> So far as I know all the APs were fq-codeled, but the firewall/gw was >> not. > > How

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] Fwd: Dave's wishlist [was: Source-specific routing merged]

2015-03-17 Thread dpreed
I agree wholeheartedly with your point, David. One other clarifying point (I'm not trying to be pedantic, here, but it may sound that way): Reliability is not the same as Availability. The two are quite different. Bufferbloat is pretty much an "availability" issue, not a reliability issue.

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] DOCSIS 3+ recommendation?

2015-03-19 Thread dpreed
How many years has it been since Comcast said they were going to fix bufferbloat in their network within a year? And LTE operators haven't even started. THat's a sign that the two dominant sectors of "Internet Access" business are refusing to support quality Internet service. (the old saying ab

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] DOCSIS 3+ recommendation?

2015-03-19 Thread dpreed
I'll look up the quote, when I get home from California, in my email archives. It may have been private email from Richard Woundy (an engineering SVP at Comcast who is the person who drove the CableLabs effort forward, working with Jim Gettys - doing the in-house experiments...). To be clear, I

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] [Bloat] DOCSIS 3+ recommendation?

2015-03-19 Thread dpreed
I do think engineers operating networks get it, and that Comcast's engineers really get it, as I clarified in my followup note. The issue is indeed prioritization of investment, engineering resources and management attention. The teams at Comcast in the engineering side have been the leaders in

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] Suggestions/advice for captive portal on gw00/gw10?

2015-04-09 Thread dpreed
DOn't want to get entangled in the political debate, but just a thought: If you track what MAC addrs use what upstream capacity, you could have data on which to judge who is pushing your usage over any caps you happen to have. Having some data (not general fears or propaganda generated by those

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] [Bloat] better business bufferbloat monitoring tools?

2015-05-14 Thread dpreed
Tools, tools, tools. Make it trivially easy to capture packets in the home (don't require cerowrt, for obvious reasons). For example, an iPhone app that does a tcpdump and sends it to us would be fantastic to diagnose "make wifi fast" issues and also bufferbloat issues. Give feedback that is

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] [Bloat] heisenbug: dslreports 16 flow test vs cablemodems

2015-05-17 Thread dpreed
What's your definition of 802.11 performing well? Just curious. Maximizing throughput at all costs or maintaing minimal latency for multiple users sharing an access point? Of course, if all you are doing is trying to do point-to-point outdoor links using 802.11 gear, the issue is different -

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] [Bloat] heisenbug: dslreports 16 flow test vs cablemodems

2015-05-18 Thread dpreed
I'm curious as to why one would need low priority class if you were using fq_codel? Are the LEDBAT flows indistinguishable? Is there no congestion signalling (no drops, no ECN)? The main reason I ask is that end-to-end flows should share capacity well enough without magical and rarely impleme

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] performance numbers from WRT1200AC (Re: Latest build test - new sqm-scripts seem to work; "cake overhead 40" didn't)

2015-06-29 Thread dpreed
I would love to try out cake in my environment. However, as a non-combatant, it would be nice to have an instruction sheet on how to set the latest version up, and what hardware it works best on (WRT1200AC?). Obviously this is a work in progress, so that will change, but it would be nice to h

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] Build instructions for regular OpenWRT with Ceropackages

2015-06-30 Thread dpreed
What happens if the SoC ports aren't saturated, but the link is GigE? That is, suppose this is an access link to a GigE home or office LAN with wired servers? On Tuesday, June 30, 2015 9:58am, "Mikael Abrahamsson" said: > On Mon, 29 Jun 2015, dpr...@reed.com wrote: > > > I would love to t

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] Build instructions for regular OpenWRT with Ceropackages

2015-07-01 Thread dpreed
Mikael, very very helpful, thanks. I now understand what you are trying to prove/test in your experiments, but there is definitely a need for cake when the dominant use is hi-bitrate WiFi (AC1900) talking to one or more 1 GigE wired paths. And hi bitrate WiFi itself has significantly variabl

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] DSL Reports Speed Test results (WNDR3800, SQM=fc_codel)

2015-07-02 Thread dpreed
Wonderful! On Wednesday, July 1, 2015 9:46pm, "Jim Reisert AD1C" said: > Model: NETGEAR WNDR3800 > Firmware Version: OpenWrt Chaos Calmer r46069 / LuCI Master > (git-15.168.50780-bae48b6) > > Comcast cable modem, 60 Mbps down/6 Mbps up (nominal) > > Motorola SB6141 > Hardware Version: 7.0

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] performance numbers from WRT1200AC (Re: Latest build test - new sqm-scripts seem to work; "cake overhead 40" didn't)

2015-07-02 Thread dpreed
Having not bought a 1200ac yet, I was wondering if I should splurge for the 1900ac v2 (which has lots of memory unlike the 1900ac v1). Any thoughts on the compatibility of this with the 1200ac? Current plans are to deploy Supermicro Mini ITX A1SRI-2558F-O Quad Core (Rangely) as my externally

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] wrt1900ac v1 vs v2

2015-07-07 Thread dpreed
[ https://community.linksys.com/t5/Wireless-Routers/WRT1900AC-V2/td-p/940588 ]( https://community.linksys.com/t5/Wireless-Routers/WRT1900AC-V2/td-p/940588 ) Shows a v2 with 512M of memory, actually purchased. I would think that the 512 is definitely useful. On Tuesday, July 7, 2015 2:09am

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] [Make-wifi-fast] [tsvwg] Comments on draft-szigeti-tsvwg-ieee-802-11e

2015-07-31 Thread dpreed
Hardware people tend to think about queues way too much in general. Queues should be almost never occupied. That causes the highest throughput possible. And getting there is simple: push queueing back to the source. The average queue length into a shared medium should be as close to zero as

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] [Make-wifi-fast] [tsvwg] Comments on draft-szigeti-tsvwg-ieee-802-11e

2015-08-03 Thread dpreed
It's not infeasible to make queues shorter. In any case, the throughput of a link does not increase above the point where there is always one packet ready to go by the time the currently outgoing packet is completed. It physically cannot do better than that. If hardware designers can't creat

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] [Make-wifi-fast] [tsvwg] Comments on draft-szigeti-tsvwg-ieee-802-11e

2015-08-03 Thread dpreed
I design and build physical layer radio hardware (using SDR reception and transmission in the 5 GHz and 10 GHz Amateur radio bands). Fairness is easy in a MAC. 1 usec. is 1,000 linear feet. If the next station knows when its turn is, it can start transmitting within a couple of microseconds

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] [Make-wifi-fast] [tsvwg] Comments on draft-szigeti-tsvwg-ieee-802-11e

2015-08-04 Thread dpreed
On Monday, August 3, 2015 8:13pm, "David Lang" said: > > That requires central coordination of the stations. Something we don't have in > wifi. Wifi lives and dies with 'listen for a gap, try transmitting, and if you > collide, backoff a random period' Central coordination is not the only for

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] [Make-wifi-fast] [tsvwg] Comments on draft-szigeti-tsvwg-ieee-802-11e

2015-08-07 Thread dpreed
On Friday, August 7, 2015 4:03pm, "David Lang" said: > > Wifi is the only place I know of where the transmit bit rate is going to vary > depending on the next hop address. This is an interesting core issue. The question is whether additional queueing helps or hurts this, and whether the M

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] [Make-wifi-fast] [tsvwg] Comments on draft-szigeti-tsvwg-ieee-802-11e

2015-08-08 Thread dpreed
David - I find it interesting that you think I am an idiot. I design waveforms for radios, and am, among other things, a fully trained electrical engineer with deep understanding of information theory, EM waves, propagation, etc. as well as an Amateur Radio builder focused on building experime

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] Editorial questions for response to the FCC

2015-10-02 Thread dpreed
This is good. Regarding my concern about asking for mandated FCC-centered control - we need less of that. It establishes a bad precedent for the means of "protecting the airwaves". (or reinforces a precedent that must be changed soon - of establishing de-facto, anti-innovation monopolies that

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] omnia turris on indigogo

2015-11-12 Thread dpreed
The $1K prototype looks a little different (more antennae, for sure, in the picture). What driver, what chip does the wifi? How open is the hardware design? (binary blobs?) Can one improve aspects of the MAC protocol in open source? Definitely interesting. I might be convinced to go for the pr

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] FCC: We aren’t banning DD-WRT on Wi-Fi routers

2015-11-12 Thread dpreed
It's a start. (I'm optimistic that there is room to move the ball farther and that the FCC folks are willing to listen, though they didn't directly address concerns about the security closed, buggy quality of the factory software as being important and in the public interest). On Thursday, No

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] first 802.11ad appearance

2016-01-20 Thread dpreed
I'm trying to imagine what its intended market is. Open factory/warehouse floor networking? The atmospheric absorbtion of that band is a problem, since oxygen's absorption peak is 60 GHz. The ability to use multipath constructively due to the number of antennas (BLAST style MIMO) may help.

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] better service discovery

2016-01-26 Thread dpreed
There's a paper from Cambridge University that focuses on evaluating Raft. In particular they have some key findings about performance tuning, plus discovering some potential livelocks. I'm interested in Consul on a planet-wide scale - not sure it scales effectively but if it or something like

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] archer c7v2 gets third party unupgradable firmware

2016-02-15 Thread dpreed
I'm giving a talk in a couple months at a very high level, about "what's at stake" as we move into the era of "5G" (for lack of a better word, this is what the media all think is happening, and what has the ear of the FCC). I'd love to have a list of brands and models that have "gone dark" to se

  1   2   3   >