Re: [Cerowrt-devel] looking over ampdu stats

2014-01-20 Thread David P. Reed
It's worth remembering that while aggregation of data in single units might reduce overhead, end to end latency is far more critical to most Internet apps. Focusing on optimizing throughput for the last few percent in corner cases is NOT desirable. In fact, it is the cause of pervasive buffer b

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] more and more microscopic x86 hardware

2014-03-18 Thread David P. Reed
Is there a good usb 3.0 802.11 adapter? On Mar 18, 2014, Dave Taht wrote: >If this had a full length mini-pcie slot it would be a pretty good >candidate for a higher end cero platform. > >http://linuxgizmos.com/pico-itx-board-runs-linux-on-amd-g-series-soc/ -- Sent from my Android device with K-

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] "DNSSEC considered harmful"

2014-05-10 Thread David P. Reed
Reading a lot of this stuff suggests at most that DNSSEC is being overhyped and poorly implemented. As a reason to abandon work on deploying DNSSEC so that it's easier to instantiate man in the middle attacks I find it unconvincing. Is there an alternative? On May 8, 2014, Maciej Soltysiak wr

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] [Bloat] fq_codel is two years old

2014-05-15 Thread David P. Reed
Both you and Dave Taft misunderstood my idea about standing queues not being the right way to encode congestion in switches. I do not say there would be no buffers for jitter. Nor do I call for admission control. I just suggest that instead of deriving congestion from backlog measures (requiring

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] [Bloat] fq_codel is two years old

2014-05-16 Thread David P. Reed
that it has a better idea of what to do once >congestion starts, then you may have a point. > >but fq_codel is very happy to run and do basically nothing if there is >no >congestion. It doesn't delay things to create a buffer. > >David Lang > > On Thu, 15 May 2014, Da

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] [Bloat] fq_codel is two years old

2014-05-16 Thread David P. Reed
I'll answer this way... The endpoints can use information to slow down as early as possible. That's the whole point of control loop tuning. The fundamental resonance of a control loop depends on its speed of draining and filling the storage element. So you want to sample and deliver ASAP two th

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] Ideas on how to simplify and popularize bufferbloat control for consideration.

2014-05-24 Thread David P. Reed
Depends on the type of the provider. Most providers now have shared paths to the backbone among users and give a peak rate up and down for brief periods that they will not sustain... In fact they usually penalize use of the peak rate by reducing the rate after that. So at what point they create

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] Ubiquiti QOS

2014-05-26 Thread David P. Reed
Codel and PIE are excellent first steps... but I don't think they are the best eventual approach. I want to see them deployed ASAP in CMTS' s and server load balancing networks... it would be a disaster to not deploy the far better option we have today immediately at the point of most leverage.

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] Ubiquiti QOS

2014-05-29 Thread David P. Reed
ECN-style signaling has the right properties ... just like TTL it can provide valid and current sampling of the packet ' s environment as it travels. The idea is to sample what is happening at a bottleneck for the packet ' s flow. The bottleneck is the link with the most likelihood of a collisi

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] Ubiquiti QOS

2014-05-29 Thread David P. Reed
Good points... On May 29, 2014, Michael Richardson wrote: > >David P. Reed wrote: >> ECN-style signaling has the right properties ... just like TTL it can >> provide > >How would you send these signals? > >> A Bloom style filter can remember flow st

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] BQL, txqueue lengths and the internet of things

2014-06-11 Thread David P. Reed
Maybe you can do a quick blog howto? I'd bet the same could be done for raspberry pi and perhaps my other toy the wandboard which has a gigE adapter and Scsi making it a nice iscsi target or nfs server. De bloating the world... One step at a time. On Jun 11, 2014, Dave Taht wrote: >The bloat

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] [Bloat] Dave Täht quoted in the ACLU blog

2014-06-27 Thread David P. Reed
Maybe I am misunderstanding something... it just took my Mac book Pro doing an rsync to copy a TB of data from a small NAS at work yesterday to get about 700 Gb/sec on a GigE office network for hours yesterday. I had to do that in our Santana Clara office rather than from home outside Boston,

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] viability of the data center in the internet of the future

2014-06-28 Thread David P. Reed
s. > >And I'd like my servers to run on a couple watts, at most, and not >require special heating, or cooling. > >And I'd like (another) beer and some popcorn. Tonight's movie: > >https://plus.google.com/u/0/107942175615993706558/posts/VJKvfvKU9pi > >On Fr

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] Check out www.speedof.me - no Flash

2014-07-20 Thread David P. Reed
Include Doc in the discussion you have... need his email address? On Jul 20, 2014, Rich Brown wrote: >Doc Searls >(http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/doc/2014/07/20/the-cliff-peronal-clouds-need-to-climb/) >mentioned in passing that he uses a new speed test website. I checked >it out, and it was very c

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] [Bloat] Check out www.speedof.me - no Flash

2014-07-25 Thread David P. Reed
It's important to note that modern browsers have direct access to TCP Up and Down connections using Web sockets from javascript threads. It is quite feasible to drive such connections at near wire speeds in both directions... I've done it in my own experiments. A knowledgeable network testing ex

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] [Bloat] still trying to find hardware for the next generation worth hacking on

2014-08-15 Thread David P. Reed
Anybody got a TI connection? The wandboard is nice based on I.MX6 but it is not ideal for a router. On Aug 15, 2014, Jonathan Morton wrote: >> one promising project is this one: https://www.turris.cz/en/ > >That does look promising. The existing software is OpenWRT, so porting >CeroWRT shouldn't

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] [Bloat] still trying to find hardware for the next generation worth hacking on

2014-08-22 Thread David P. Reed
You missed the on board switch which is a major differentiator. On Aug 22, 2014, William Katsak wrote: >This is a nice board, but other than the form factor, it isn’t much >different than this Supermicro board which is readily available: > >http://www.supermicro.com/products/motherboard/Atom/X10/

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] [Bloat] Fixing bufferbloat: How about an open letter to the web benchmarkers?

2014-09-12 Thread David P. Reed
I have a working ping-over-http mobile browser app at alt.reed.com. feel free to try it and look at the underlying packet stream with wireshark. I did a prototype of a RRUL test using Web sockets and a modified nginx websocket module as a server that could be commanded to generate precise tra

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] bulk packet transmission

2014-10-10 Thread David P. Reed
I do know that. I would say that benchmarks rarely match real world problems of real systems- they come from sources like academia and technical marketing depts. My job for the last few years has been looking at stems with dozens of processors across 2 and 4 sockets and multiple 10 GigE adapters

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] wifi over narrow channels

2014-10-14 Thread David P. Reed
David - 1) you are right that LBT fails because propagation does not allow a transmitter to hear the stations that might be transmitting on the same channel. But LBT need not be the optimal approach for the general idea of packet multiplexing. A better decentralized approach is rts/cts. Think

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] High Performance (SSH) Data Transfers using fq_codel?

2014-11-14 Thread David P. Reed
Filling intermediate buffers doesn't make the tcp congestion algorithms work. They just kick in when the buffers are full! And then you end up with a pile of packets that will be duplicated which amplifies the pressure on buffers! If there could be no buffering,the big file transfers would home

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] tinc vpn: adding dscp passthrough (priorityinherit), ecn, and fq_codel support

2014-12-03 Thread David P. Reed
Tor needs this stuff very badly. I do wonder whether we should focus on vpn's rather than end to end encryption that does not leak secure information through from inside as the plan seems to do. On Dec 3, 2014, Guus Sliepen wrote: >On Wed, Dec 03, 2014 at 12:07:59AM -0800, Dave Taht wrote: >

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] tinc vpn: adding dscp passthrough (priorityinherit), ecn, and fq_codel support

2014-12-04 Thread David P. Reed
fic >across every intermediary. But I think that basically destroys almost >all the value of an "inter" net. It makes it a balkanized proprietary >set of subnets that have dozens of reasons why you can't connect with >anyone else, and no way to be free to connect. >>

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] an option for a new platform?

2014-12-13 Thread David P. Reed
Anyone measured what is the actual bottleneck in 300 mb/s shaping? On an Intel platform you can measure a running piece of code pretty accurately. I ask because it is not obvious a cpu needs to touch much of a frame to do shaping, so it seems more likely that the driver and memory management st

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] Cerowrt-devel Digest, Vol 37, Issue 24

2014-12-20 Thread David P. Reed
Neither 2.4 GHZ nor 5.8 GHz are absorbed more than other bands. That's an old wives tale. The reason for the bands' selection is that they were available at the time. The water absorption peak frequency is 10x higher. Don't believe what people repeat without checking. The understanding of radio

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] Cerowrt-devel Digest, Vol 37, Issue 24

2014-12-21 Thread David P. Reed
reradiates low freq sounds better than high freq ones. Hence the loud car stereo bass is much louder than treble when the cabin is sealed. On Dec 21, 2014, David Lang wrote: >On Sat, 20 Dec 2014, David P. Reed wrote: > >> Neither 2.4 GHZ nor 5.8 GHz are absorbed more than other band

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] make-wifi-fast videoconference?

2015-02-28 Thread David P. Reed
I am booked solid on Monday and Tuesday - speaking at the F2C conference in NYC about the big issues in evolving the wireless Internet to be less centralized and more scalable. I will briefly mention Cerowrt as a good model for making a difference and mention the WiFi challenge. It won't be tec

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] DOCSIS 3+ recommendation?

2015-03-17 Thread David P. Reed
It is not the cable modem itself that is bufferbloated. It is the head end working with the cable modem. Docsis 3 has mechanisms to avoid queue buildup but they are turned on by the head end. I don't know for sure but I believe that the modem itself cannot measure or control the queueing in the

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] [Bloat] DOCSIS 3+ recommendation?

2015-03-20 Thread David P. Reed
The mystery in most users' minds is that ping at a time when there is no load does tell them anything at all about why the network connection will such when their kid is uploading to youtube. So giving them ping time is meaningless. I think most network engineers think ping time is a useful meas

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] [Bloat] DOCSIS 3+ recommendation?

2015-03-20 Thread David P. Reed
SamKnows is carefully constructed politically to claim that everyone has great service and no problems are detected. They were constructed by opponents of government supervision - the corporate FCC lobby. Don't believe they have any incentive to measure customer relevant measures M-Lab is bette

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] [Bloat] DOCSIS 3+ recommendation?

2015-03-20 Thread David P. Reed
I think this is because there are a lot of packets in flight from end to end meaning that the window is wide open and has way overshot the mark. This can happen if the receiving end keeps opening it's window and has not encountered a lost frame. That is: the dropped or marked packets are not ha

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] [Bloat] marketing #102 - giving netperf-wrapper a better name?

2015-03-20 Thread David P. Reed
Drag is an fluid dynamic term that suggests a meaning close to this... flow rate dependent friction. But what you really want to suggest is a flow rate dependent *delay* that people are familiar with quantifying. Fq_codel limits the delay as flow rate increases and is fair. The max buffer limi

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] some comments from elsewhere on the lockdown

2015-09-25 Thread David P. Reed
Those of us who innovate at the waveform and MAC layer would argue differently. The cellular operators are actually the responsible control operators and hold licenses for that. They may want to lock down phones' cellular transmitters. But U-NII and ism bands are not licensed to these operators

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] some comments from elsewhere on the lockdown

2015-09-25 Thread David P. Reed
s with open source best practices, and/or which >causes the vendors to believe they should hide the mechanisms they use >by shipping undocumented “binary blobs” of compiled code. This had >been an ongoing problem to all in the internet community trying to do >change control and e

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] [FCC] some comments from elsewhere on the lockdown

2015-10-01 Thread David P. Reed
I love copy left thinking. I worry that I can't sign something so provocative, because it invokes regulatory overreach. The letter is taking a totalitarian turn, asking government to go beyond choice. I thought we were reducing the power of the FCC Iintitution, but now it is a call for extreme

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] Problems testing sqm

2015-10-23 Thread David P. Reed
Sqm is a way to deal with the dsl or cable modem having bufferbloat. In the configuration described neither end is the problem ... the DUT itself may have bufferbloat. That would be terrible. On Oct 23, 2015, Richard Smith wrote: >On 10/23/2015 02:41 PM, Michael Richardson wrote: >> Richard Smi

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] Problems testing sqm

2015-10-23 Thread David P. Reed
In particular, the DUT should probably have no more than 2 packets of outbound queueing given the very small RTT. 2xRTT is the most buffering you want in the loop. On Oct 23, 2015, Richard Smith wrote: >On 10/23/2015 02:41 PM, Michael Richardson wrote: >> Richard Smith wrote: >> > My tes

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] Problems testing sqm

2015-10-24 Thread David P. Reed
Not trying to haggle. Just pointing out that this test configuration has a very short RTT. maybe too short for our SQM to adjust to. On Oct 24, 2015, Sebastian Moeller wrote: >Hi David, > >On Oct 24, 2015, at 00:53 , David P. Reed wrote: > >> In particular, the DUT shoul

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] Problems testing sqm

2015-10-24 Thread David P. Reed
Understand. On Oct 24, 2015, Jonathan Morton wrote: > >> On 24 Oct, 2015, at 19:34, David P. Reed wrote: >> >> Not trying to haggle. Just pointing out that this test configuration >has a very short RTT. maybe too short for our SQM to adjust to. > >It should still

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] dnsmasq CVEs

2017-10-04 Thread David P Reed
I share your concern for updates, and support for same. However, there are architectural solutions we should have pursued a long time ago, which would bound the damage of such vulnerabilities. Make the system far more robust. There's no reason for dnsmasq to run with privileges. Not should pack

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] closing up my make-wifi-fast lab

2018-08-25 Thread David P. Reed
WiFi is a bit harder than IP. But you know that. I truly believe that we need to fix the phy/waveform/modulation space to really scale up open wireless networking capability. LBT is the basic bug in WiFi, and it is at that layer, melow the MAC. I have tried for 20 years now to find a way to be

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] closing up my make-wifi-fast lab

2018-08-26 Thread David P. Reed
s.bufferbloat.net Subject: Re: [Cerowrt-devel] closing up my make-wifi-fast lab On Sat, Aug 25, 2018 at 1:04 PM David P. Reed wrote: > > WiFi is a bit harder than IP. But you know that. > > I truly believe that we need to fix the phy/waveform/modulation space to > really scale up

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] security guidelines for home routers

2018-11-26 Thread David P. Reed
> I would like it very much if my country attempted to get to something> > similar as a requirement for FCC certification or import. Stronger> yes, > would be nice, but there was> nothing horrible in here that I could see. Dave T. - You may remember from when I helped get you in contact with t

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] security guidelines for home routers

2018-11-28 Thread David P. Reed
ling participants. But the latter good is lost, as the Pied Piper solved our communications concerns using the Internet, and then demanded control of our children. -Original Message- From: "Michael Richardson" Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2018 4:14am To: "David P. Ree

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] dlte

2018-12-09 Thread David P. Reed
Conquer the spectrum licensing and device certification nexus. Or else your cell is will pwn yr physical world. LTE over UNII band is not even as good as CSMA at sharing and cooperation, and without coordination at installation planning time, it doesn't work well. 802.11ax has the same fragilit

[Cerowrt-devel] Hmmm... Worth reading re router security

2018-12-16 Thread David P. Reed
A look at home routers, and a surprising bug in Linux/MIPS - https://cyber-itl.org/2018/12/07/a-look-at-home-routers-and-linux-mips.html ___ Cerowrt-devel mailing list Cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cerowrt-

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-tsvwg-le-phb-06 is in last call

2019-02-03 Thread David P. Reed
Well, you all know that I think of diffserv as an abortion. It's based on thinking that assumes central, hierachical adminstrative agreements among what should be autonomous systems. Yeah, at layer 2 for packets that stay within an administratively uniform domain, diffserv can be useful. But e

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] friends don't let friends run factory firmware

2019-02-05 Thread David P. Reed
Well, pots and kettles - I bet there are, amongst the huge numbers of LEDE/OpenWRt packages, some very useful DDoS amplification concerns. So it's really not a strong proof of the claim that "factory firmware" is bad. My own home border router I built myself, and yet it acquires new problems wi

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] Will transport innovation collapse the Internet?

2019-03-23 Thread David P. Reed
Dave - I tend to agree with Christian's thesis, despite the flaws in his "history". HTTP/3 does NOT specify a congestion control algorithm, and in fact seems to encourage experimentation with wacky concepts. That's a terrible approach to standardization. Roskind is not my kind of a hero.

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] plenty of huawei in the news today

2019-03-28 Thread David P. Reed
The NYTimes has become a mouthpiece for those who want to see China as the new evil empire. Recent pieces by David Sanger have hyped the idea that the US has a "5G Gap" and that China (Huawei) will threaten to conquer the world with 5G superiority, so we should be vigilantly opposing Huawei.

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] plenty of huawei in the news today

2019-03-28 Thread David P. Reed
llars to protect the US from becoming a third world country) Humans don't think. They react emotionally, and tribally. -Original Message----- From: "Dave Taht" Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2019 2:16pm To: "David P. Reed" Cc: "cerowrt-devel" , "bloat"

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] [Bloat] plenty of huawei in the news today

2019-03-28 Thread David P. Reed
swer to themselves or their "owners". Just don't trust them. You can buy their stuff and use it because it is pretty darn functional, but don't put your life entirely in their hands, even if they have similar facial features to you. -Original Message- From: &

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] Spectrum Auctions Are Killing Competition AndFailing Rural Access

2019-04-08 Thread David P. Reed
I've spent almost 25 tears trying to address this problem, technologically. First with UWB, then with technologies that scale capacity with the number of users in a band, then with the FCC Spectrum Policy Task Force, then on the FCC Technolocical Advisory Committee. Each time, most radio engine

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] fq_codel is SEVEN years old today...

2019-05-14 Thread David P. Reed
Well, of all the devices in my house (maybe 100), only the router attached to the cable modem (which is a 2x GigE Intel Linux board based on Fedora 29 server with sch_cake configured) is running fq_codel. And setting that up was a labor of love. But it works a charm for my asymmetric Gigabit ca

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] fq_codel is SEVEN years old today...

2019-05-14 Thread David P. Reed
ing, negotiating a sales channel, etc. Just do what is needed to make a few thousand for the CrowdSupply market. Thoughts? -Original Message- From: "David P. Reed" Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2019 2:38pm To: "Valdis Klētnieks" Cc: "Rich Brown" , "cerowrt

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] [Bloat] fq_codel is SEVEN years old today...

2019-05-14 Thread David P. Reed
Ideally, it would need to be self-configuring, though... I.e., something like the IQRouter auto-measuring of the upstream bandwidth to tune the shaper. Sure, seems like this is easy to code because there are exactly two ports to measure, they can even be labeled physically "up" and "down" to

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] Huawei banned by US gov...

2019-05-16 Thread David P. Reed
In my personal view, the lack of any evidence that Huawei has any more government-controlled or classified compartmented Top Secret offensive Cyberwar exploits than Cisco, Qualcomm, Broadcom, Mellanox, F5, NSO group, etc. is quite a strong indication that there's no relevant "there" there. Gi

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] Huawei banned by US gov...

2019-05-16 Thread David P. Reed
arly 60s and civilization survived, after, admittedly, getting neck > deep in the big muddy. > So anyway, here's that song, that has a fascinating history: > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXnJVkEX8O4 > > and to me applies to a lot of folk, currently in power. Perh

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] [Bloat] (no subject)

2019-05-18 Thread David P. Reed
ays on my mind. > > I'd long ago hoped that DSL devices would adopt BQL, and that > > cablemodems would also, thus moving packet processing a little higher > > on the stack so more advanced algorithms like cake could take hold. > > > > On Wed, May 15, 2019 at 9:32

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] [Bloat] (no subject)

2019-05-18 Thread David P. Reed
rom one end to the other). On Saturday, May 18, 2019 6:57pm, "Jonathan Morton" said: > > On 19 May, 2019, at 1:36 am, David P. Reed > wrote: > > > > Pardon, but cwnd should NEVER be larger than the number of forwarding hops > between source and destination.

[Cerowrt-devel] Does Ubiquiti Unifi have bufferbloat and unfair/bloated WiFi scheduling?

2019-05-23 Thread David P. Reed
I have been chatting with a startup in the Multi-User Dwelling networking operations space, and they seem to really be attracted to Ubiquiti Unifi systems. I can't blame them for wanting a comprehensive and evolving system. But on the questions related to bufferbloat and making wifi both low l

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] will starlink have bufferbloat?

2019-05-23 Thread David P. Reed
Sorry, I can't help - I never spend time or effort on Twitter, Reddit, etc. because I see no value and lots of problems in doing that. Musk probably wouldn't love my views on most of his companies, anyway. I hope he gets something right on this one. On Wednesday, May 22, 2019 6:45am, "Dave Ta

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] starlink as a mesh network

2020-01-13 Thread David P. Reed
Fun, but it is all just a dynamic geometry game. It's worth remembering that Congestion Control will be a huge problem here. It's far from obvious that current TCP congestion control (which assumes all packets in a virtual circuit traverse the same path in a very deep way indeed) will do the j

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] 5g nas protocol

2020-01-19 Thread David P. Reed
What a beautiful document. I noticed a few bugs in the protocol here and there as I skimmed it, and what appear to just be typos. I'm sure it all just works perfectly, after reading the proof of correctness that I found on github. :-( On Sunday, January 19, 2020 8:54am, "Dave Taht" said: > I

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] I got ipv6 on my cell tether this morning

2020-01-28 Thread David P. Reed
Good grief, can't we kill off NAT? IPv4.01 isn't IPv6. What does the other end think your IPv6 source address is? Can your tethered systems pass addressable endpoints to the other end, and expect them to work? Or will there be STUN6/TURN6 needed to do, say, WebRTC peering? On Tuesday, January 2

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] [Bloat] OT: Netflix vs 6in4 from HE.net

2020-03-22 Thread David P. Reed
This might turn out to be a problem for me - I have a "smart TV" that I watch Netflix on, and it appears to use IPv4. What specifically triggers Netflix to reject specific IPv6 clients? Is it the player's IPv6 address? Is all of he.net's address space blocked? I've been planning to move more of

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] [Bloat] OT: Netflix vs 6in4 from HE.net

2020-03-24 Thread David P. Reed
Sadly, my home provider, RCN, which is otherwise hugely better than Comcast and Verizon provisioning wise, still won't provide IPv6 to its customers. It's a corporate level decision. I know the regional network operations guys, which is why I know about the provisioning - they have very high-end

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] [Bloat] OT: Netflix vs 6in4 from HE.net

2020-03-24 Thread David P. Reed
Thanks, Colin, for the info. Sadly, I learned all about the licensing of content in the industry back about 20 years ago when I was active in the battles about Xcasting rights internationally (extending "broadcast rights" to the Web, which are rights that exist only in the EU, having to do with

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] [Cake] mo bettah open source multi-party videoconferncing in an age of bloated uplinks?

2020-03-27 Thread David P. Reed
Congestion control for real-time video is quite different than for streaming. Streaming really is dealt with by a big enough (multi-second) buffering, and can in principle work great over TCP (if debloated). UDP congestion control MUST be end-to-end and done in the application layer, which is u

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] [Cake] mo bettah open source multi-party videoconferncing in an age of bloated uplinks?

2020-03-28 Thread David P. Reed
Regarding EDF. I've been pushing folks to move latency sensitive computing in ALL OS's to a version of EDF since about 1976. This was when I was in grad school working on distributed computing on LANs. In fact, it is where I got the idea for my Ph.D. thesis (completed in 1978) which pointed out

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] AQL in openwrt head, but not 19 stable

2020-03-29 Thread David P. Reed
Pragmatically, I solve this by a mixed, manual strategy. My entry router at home isn't OpenWRT based, it only connects a WAN GigE port to a home LAN GigE port. I use multiple APs, and for now solve the "make wifi fast" problem by using one 5 GHz channel per AP, and enough APs so I can have only

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] openwrt or "open" security cams?

2020-04-03 Thread David P. Reed
The ESP32-CAM device (which is under $10 quantity 1 from lots of sources, just google) is a WiFi enabled camera board with lots of functionaliy built in, including a full WiFi (2.4 GHz) and TCP/IP with TLS stack. I have been playing with a couple, as have my friends. Various folks have 3D printe

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] openwrt or "open" security cams?

2020-04-04 Thread David P. Reed
I have some servers with 512 GB of RAM, and my company sells "Software Defined Server" capability to relatively inexpensively make virtualized systems with 10 TB of RAM out of these 512 GB systems. They fit in less then a single 19" rack. [Couldn't resist :-) https://www.tidalscale.com/technolog

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] 800gige

2020-04-12 Thread David P. Reed
Sadly, out-of-order delivery tolerance was a "requirement" when we designed TCP originally. There was a big motivation: spreading traffic across a variety of roughly equivalent paths, when you look at the center of the network activity (not the stupid image called "backbone" the forces you to th

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] real time text

2020-04-16 Thread David P. Reed
It does seem awfully complicated compared to how I would imagine the functionality could be implemented if you just did it on top of UDP. One of the costs of using UDP is that one needs to support protocol-specific end-to-end congestion control as well as protocol-specific datagram-loss handlin

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] nostalgia

2020-05-08 Thread David P. Reed
Yeah. In 1969, Bruce Daniels was a neighbor in my dorm (Random Hall, MIT) and Tim Anderson was working in the same office space at Project MAC as Carl Hewitt in around 1974, when I was, among other things like working on Multics kernel and building MACLISP, helping Carl with implementing Planne

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] apparently this is an end goal of a lot of ipv6 work in the ietf

2020-07-02 Thread David P. Reed
Interop 2019 gave this an award? I have to say, it reads like a clone of the Bell System Technical Manual (or some of the LTE spec). In the tutorial it doesn't seem to say what problem it is solving. But hey, maybe the IAB loves it? They seem to be clueless as hell about internetworking as a c

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] my thx to spacex (and kerbal space program) forcheering me up all year

2021-01-01 Thread David P. Reed
It has bufferbloat? Why am I not surprised? I can share that one stack hasn't had it from the start, by design. That is one implemented for trading at 10+ GB/sec, implemented in Verilog, and now apparently in production use at one of the largest NY trading intermediaries. Why? Simply two reas

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] cringley rants well on bloat

2021-02-09 Thread David P. Reed
Hmmm... good post, I guess. But aren't WiFi 6 and StarLink being built by people who have proved their genius by being billionaires? It's sad, though, to read through the comments. There's a whole 'nother world out there now. Apparently the world of commenters are largely convinced bufferbloat

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] a start at the FCC filing

2021-02-21 Thread David P. Reed
This is an excellent proposal. I am happy to support it somehow. I strongly recommend trying to find a way to make sure it doesn't become a proposal put forward by "progressive" potlitical partisans. (this is hard for me, because my politics are more aligned with the Left than with the self-d

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] easic from intel

2021-03-02 Thread David P. Reed
These are ASICs, not fpgas. Presumably they are manufactured on Intel fabs using Intel processes, after designing them. The overview references RTL design specs. Now Verilog and VHDL can speciry RTL designs (but are a bit more general). Also, the I/O pins seem to be a bit more specialized th

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] [Bloat] a start at the FCC filing

2021-03-07 Thread David P. Reed
t be much motivation to do anything else. [ https://news.slashdot.org/story/21/03/04/1722256/senators-call-on-fcc-to-quadruple-base-high-speed-internet-speeds ]( https://news.slashdot.org/story/21/03/04/1722256/senators-call-on-fcc-to-quadruple-base-high-speed-internet-speeds ) Anybody know the

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] smart queue management conflict

2021-03-22 Thread David P. Reed
I know I am seen as too outspoken on these things, but this paper was frank nonsense! I mean, starting from the idea that sensor and actuator devices use a small bit rate averaged over a 24 hour period means that they should be assigned a "narrowband channel" (which would be fine if real sensor

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] wireguard almost takes a bullet

2021-03-29 Thread David P. Reed
Dave - I've spent a fair amount of time orbiting the FreeBSD community over the past few years. It's not as sad as you might think. However, the networking portion of FreeBSD community is quite differently organized than it is in Linux. What tends to shape Linux and FreeBSD, etc. are the mon

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] wireguard almost takes a bullet

2021-03-30 Thread David P. Reed
just the personal opinion of someone who has been developing systems for 50+ years now. I'm kind of disappointed, but my opinion does not really matter much. David On Monday, March 29, 2021 9:52pm, "Theodore Ts'o" said: > On Mon, Mar 29, 2021 at 04:28:11PM -0400

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] [Cake] access to cmsg from go?

2021-06-23 Thread David P. Reed
(They closed the issue on the golang link.) I'm not a golang user. One language too many for me. It sounds like a library issue. My suggestion would be to use the openness of open source. Generate a patchset that extends the interface properly. Don't try to "improve" what you don't like - com

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] Due Aug 2: Internet Quality workshop CFP for the internet architecture board

2021-07-01 Thread David P. Reed
Well, nice that the folks doing the conference are willing to consider that quality of user experience has little to do with signalling rate at the physical layer or throughput of FTP transfers. But honestly, the fact that they call the problem "network quality" suggests that they REALLY, RE

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] [Starlink] [Make-wifi-fast] Due Aug 2: Internet Quality workshop CFP for the internet architecture board

2021-07-08 Thread David P. Reed
all things. [1]. There's a lot of > > fallout from that in terms of not just addressing queuing delay, but > > caching, prefetching, and learning more about what a user really needs > > (as opposed to wants) to know via intelligent agents. > > > > [0] If you wan

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] [Bloat] Abandoning Window-based CC Considered Harmful (was Re: Bechtolschiem)

2021-07-08 Thread David P. Reed
Keep It Simple, Stupid. That's a classic architectural principle that still applies. Unfortunately folks who only think hardware want to add features to hardware, but don't study the actual real world version of the problem. IMO, and it's based on 50 years of experience in network and operat

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] Little's Law mea culpa, but not invalidating my main point

2021-07-09 Thread David P. Reed
better reason it is often used, and that is because the sum of a large number of independent stationary renewal processes approaches a Poisson process. So nature often gives us Poisson arrivals. Best, Len On Jul 8, 2021, at 12:38 PM, David P. Reed <[ dpr...@deepplum.com ]( mailto:dpr

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] [Bloat] Little's Law mea culpa, but not invalidating my main point

2021-07-12 Thread David P. Reed
  On Monday, July 12, 2021 9:46am, "Livingood, Jason" said: > I think latency/delay is becoming seen to be as important certainly, if not a > more direct proxy for end user QoE. This is all still evolving and I have to > say is a super interesting & fun thing to work on. :-)   If I could manag

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] [Bloat] Little's Law mea culpa, but not invalidating my main point

2021-07-13 Thread David P. Reed
g. the traffic - On-OFF pattern) see [1]. I am not sure >> when does such information readily exist. >> >> Best >> Amr >> >> [1] https://dl.acm.org/doi/10.1145/3341617.3326146 or if behind a paywall >> https://www.dcs.warwick.ac.uk/~florin/lib/sigmet19b.

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] [Cake] [Starlink] [Make-wifi-fast] Due Aug 2: Internet Quality workshop CFP for the internet architecture board

2021-09-02 Thread David P. Reed
I just want to thank Dick Roy for backing up the arguments I've been making about physical RF communications for many years, and clarifying terminology here. I'm not the expert - Dick is an expert with real practical and theoretical experience - but what I've found over the years is that many w

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] [Bloat] [Cake] [Starlink] [Make-wifi-fast] Due Aug 2: Internet Quality workshop CFP for the internet architecture board

2021-09-03 Thread David P. Reed
. Thanks,--MM-- The best way to predict the future is to create it. - Alan Kay We must not tolerate intolerance; however our response must be carefully measured: too strong would be hypocritical and risks spiraling out of control; too weak risks being mista

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] [Bloat] Little's Law mea culpa, but not invalidating my main point

2021-09-20 Thread David P. Reed
I use the example all the time, but not for interviewing. What's sad is that the answers seem to be quoting from some set of textbooks or popular explanations of the Internet that really have got it all wrong, but which many professionals seem to believe is true. The same phenomenon appears i

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] [Cake] [Bloat] Little's Law mea culpa, but not invalidating my main point

2021-09-20 Thread David P. Reed
ource loading code, and now the "service worker" javascript code, the idea that it is like fetching a file using FTP is just wrong. Do NANOG members understand this? I doubt it. On Monday, September 20, 2021 5:30pm, "David P. Reed" said: I use the example all the time, b

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] [Starlink] [Bloat] Little's Law mea culpa, but not invalidating my main point

2021-09-26 Thread David P. Reed
Pretty good list, thanks for putting this together. The only thing I'd add, and I'm not able to formulate it very elegantly, is this personal insight: One that I would research, because it can be a LOT more useful in the end-to-end control loop than stuff like ECN, L4S, RED, ... Fact: Detect

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] risc-v options?

2021-11-30 Thread David P. Reed
For what? I have recently gotten a MicroSemi RISC-V SoC board with embedded FPGA (or maybe it is better thought of as an FPGA board with multicore hard logic RISC-V host.) Runs Linux very fast. It's not set up to be a router, though - not unless I populate its PCIe slot with NICs. Standard Lin

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] uplink bufferbloat and scheduling problems

2021-12-01 Thread David P. Reed
What's the difference between uplink and downlink? In DOCSIS the rate asymmetry was the issue. But in WiFi, the air interface is completely symmetric (802.11ax, though, maybe not because of centrally polling). In any CSMA link (WiFi), there is no "up" or "down". There is only sender and rece

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] 10gige and 2.5gige

2021-12-16 Thread David P. Reed
Yes, it's very cheap and getting cheaper. Since its price fell to the point I thought was cheap, my home has a 10 GigE fiber backbone, 2 switches in my main centers of computers, lots of 10 GigE NICs in servers, and even dual 10 GigE adapters in a Thunderbolt 3 external adapter for my primary

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